Restless Soma

Death (the tumbling force, public) => The Toltec World => Topic started by: Endless~Knot on July 29, 2013, 09:08:19 PM

Title: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 29, 2013, 09:08:19 PM
Every one of us human beings has two minds. One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose, The other mind is a foreign installation. It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness: it's ourselves as the me-me center of the world.
       
      Let's put the topic of our two minds aside and go back to the idea of preparing your album of memorable events. Such an album is an exercise in discipline and impartiality. Consider this album to be an act of war. As such, it has all the meaning in the world.
      ***
      We are not naturally petty and contradictory. Our pettiness and contradictions are, rather, the result of a transcendental conflict that afflicts every one of us, but of which only sorcerers are painfully and hopelessly aware: the conflict of our two minds! One is our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity. The other, the mind we use daily for everything we do, is a foreign installation.

      To resolve the conflict of the two minds is a matter of intending it. Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear. Intent is a force that exists in the universe. When sorcerers beckon intent, it comes to them and sets up the path for attainment, which means that sorcerers always accomplish what they set out to do.
       
      Intent can be called, of course, for anything, but sorcerers have found out, the hard way, that intent comes to them only for something that is abstract. That's the safety valve for sorcerers; otherwise they would be unbearable. Beckoning intent to resolve the conflict of your two minds, or to hear the voice of your true mind, is not a petty or arbitrary matter. Quite the contrary; it is ethereal and abstract, and yet as vital to you as anything can be.
       
~Active Side of Infinity
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 30, 2013, 12:09:14 AM
I think http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=3047.0 (http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=3047.0) Deceptions of Ego on a spiritual path fits with the foreign installation. There are spiritual paths which are designed for freedom, and then paths designed for the foreign installation.

This is really tricky because the foreign installation is so pervasive. All paths have some truths into them. But some paths are moreso like a cult than others. And you have to be careful in choosing them.

Later on the path Carlos started to become a cult. But before when he was hanging with Don Juan the path was real. But later he began to fall into the dark side on the path. He became famous and the fame appealed to him. He got caught up and the foreign installation sucked him in.

The foreign installation will offer power. But like impermanence works, it will  be fleeting and will go away. The foreign installation promises permanency in attaining what you want. But it always goes away because we cannot keep anything.

And the madness of the FI knows our weaknesses very well. It is huge on a global scale, so how could it not know the little us? It is necessary to be vigilant and fight it at all costs.
I will not be a sheeple, you should say. I will not be a minion like the masses. Right?
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 12:54:27 AM
I think http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=3047.0 (http://restlesssoma.com.au/restlesssoma/index.php?topic=3047.0) Deceptions of Ego on a spiritual path fits with the foreign installation. There are spiritual paths which are designed for freedom, and then paths designed for the foreign installation.

This is really tricky because the foreign installation is so pervasive. All paths have some truths into them. But some paths are moreso like a cult than others. And you have to be careful in choosing them.

Later on the path Carlos started to become a cult. But before when he was hanging with Don Juan the path was real. But later he began to fall into the dark side on the path. He became famous and the fame appealed to him. He got caught up and the foreign installation sucked him in.

The foreign installation will offer power. But like impermanence works, it will  be fleeting and will go away. The foreign installation promises permanency in attaining what you want. But it always goes away because we cannot keep anything.

And the madness of the FI knows our weaknesses very well. It is huge on a global scale, so how could it not know the little us? It is necessary to be vigilant and fight it at all costs.
I will not be a sheeple, you should say. I will not be a minion like the masses. Right?

I don't think this is the case.

For me, my experience, and perception , that foreign installation even if I don't use the term is not having to do with paths.

Most probably it's something personal but I think the foreign installation is up 'for' our conscience.

...
To put it a different way, my belief is that the path is something to travel, ...like a way,
while the foreign installation is something like a force with no ground, lets say.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 30, 2013, 12:58:18 AM
I don't think this is the case.

For me, my experience, and perception , that foreign installation even if I don't use the term is not having to do with paths.

With a legitimate path no. With a false path yes.

Notice the difference.

Quote

Most probably it's something personal but I think the foreign installation is up 'for' our conscience.



Not just our conscious, but our soul/essence.

Quote

...
To put it a different way, my belief is that the path is something to travel, ...like a way,
while the foreign installation is something like a force with no ground, lets say.

Yes it grounds you so you remain in the herd and cannot move your own way and find your true path.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Nik on July 30, 2013, 02:07:37 AM
i will try to be careful here but maybe that don juan actually tricked carlos in many ways also when talking about the foreign installation in the second book separate reality he means a mosquito which is a flyer and the foreign mind is what the mosquito injects to us as some chemical which becomes our second mind. just some thoughts i have.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 02:51:27 AM
With a legitimate path no. With a false path yes.

Notice the difference.


lol, endless you 've cut my post/thoughts into pieces.  :)

/

Nik, I think you 're referring to a moth.
I think dj went to this as a gatekeeper of 'the' other world.

Not so sure.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on July 30, 2013, 10:18:32 AM
Quote
Intent can be called, of course, for anything, but sorcerers have found out, the hard way, that intent comes to them only for something that is abstract.

This is beautiful Knot, the safety valve, such a true and echoing statement. Because without things being abstract we would fall into to live of dimensions and this is although powerful, not a very fun place to be.


But in terms of the foreign installation Its actually able to be seen, I am acutely aware of what you are talking about, For me it has been especially predominate in women more so then men. But it is best seen I noticed through text. It is an acquired sort of vision, but once you learn to recognise it, you can speak directly to that portion of someone, and you can accomplish great feats. It is indeed a secret of power.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on July 30, 2013, 10:28:24 AM
i will try to be careful here but maybe that don juan actually tricked carlos in many ways also when talking about the foreign installation in the second book separate reality he means a mosquito which is a flyer and the foreign mind is what the mosquito injects to us as some chemical which becomes our second mind. just some thoughts i have.

Nik you are exactly right, most people I find do not like to talk about flyers, but they are an important part of the mind, Because of the nature of this subject I will not delve too much, but it is almost a perfect metaphor.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on July 30, 2013, 10:31:11 AM
lol, endless you 've cut my post/thoughts into pieces.  :)

/

Nik, I think you 're referring to a moth.
I think dj went to this as a gatekeeper of 'the' other world.

Not so sure.


Haha she has scattered your mind, there is a moth mosquito and nat.
The moth is the ally and omen which carries the dust of knowledge on its wings and sprinkles it on you.
The mosquito is the injection of the foreign installation, which which I just gathered.
And the Nat is the guardian to the other world, which you have to over come with your will, to enter.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 01:46:08 PM
Quote
And the Nat is the guardian to the other world, which you have to over come with your will, to enter.

Got ta love this.

(The Nat)

The mosquito.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 30, 2013, 01:51:08 PM
Got ta love this.

(The Nat)

The mosquito.

Gnat :) But I know what he meant so it's all good.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 01:55:30 PM
Gnat :) But I know what he meant so it's all good.

You mean it's all good - with the foreign installation?
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 30, 2013, 01:58:50 PM
You mean it's all good - with the foreign installation?


No no not the foreign installation. Just spelling gnat nat.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on July 30, 2013, 02:04:51 PM
out of all the things I said, and you guys are talking about a Gnat. heh -.-!
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 02:16:21 PM

I really didn't know the word gnat, or nat so I got into it.

...

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on July 30, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
Well just so you all know, I gave definite thought to the G before I wrote it. That is all.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on July 30, 2013, 02:31:08 PM
out of all the things I said, and you guys are talking about a Gnat. heh -.-!

No worries, still a good post. I love this topic.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on July 30, 2013, 03:22:13 PM

endless, I think a good way to get rid of the foreign mind is to withstand The mind so to speak of the unknowable; or the unknowable just lets say.

On this subject somebody told me that the 'predator' is on Earth for about 10,000 years.

I don't know if it's true but I kept the info.

And kinda liked it. (Smiley)  :)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 01, 2013, 12:17:07 PM
Here is a bit Michael once posted to me about The Foreign Installation. I asked him if it was real:

Quote
You mean like BP?

You bet, and it's set up in your lounge room. Owned by the Chinese, designed by the Germans, paid for by your own little soul.

(PS... try being original)

Quote
When a multi-national sets up in your town, you buy the same goods that everyone else in the world buys.

When that extends to TV, you watch the same programs that everyone else in the world watches.

You wear the same clothes, eat the same foods, like the same things and dislike the same things, think and feel the same way - you believe yourself to be unique, but in fact you are simply copying.

You are pawn of a foreign entity - living, breathing and thinking what that entity feeds you. You flatter yourself on your uniqueness, but actually you are a puppet of another's will.

That is how the foreign instillation works. You believe your emotions are unique, while in fact if you only stepped outside yourself for a moment, you would see they are depressingly exactly the same as every human being ... who is asleep.

When you read a question on one forum and reproduce almost exactly word for word on another forum, you are doing the same - you are living a fashion. In this case a fashion of thought. Like wanting to wear Nike joggers, 'because those people are wearing them, I want to wear them also'. It's the cool idea going round.

The foreign instillation demands you toe the line and seek to replicate, thinking you are actually involved in some serious inquiry.

That is why I said "try being original".

Now if they start talking about pizza on another forum, and it becomes a 'hit' over there, and the original question is asked by someone who calls himself a 'nagual' - adding real gravitas - will you pop in here and ask exactly the same question?

I know it's hard to be original, but at least you could turn the idea around in your mind and come at it from a different angle.

Of course we would like to try on the latest fashion, but a little gesture against the most obvious infection of the foreign instillation's command is worthwhile ... like me calling it instillation instead of installation.

Quote
Definitely - it is real all right.

But the practice is to identify when we are experiencing a mood that is not inherent to our innate nature. An experience that is grafted onto us, and which we identify as ourself without question. Much the same way we adopt our parent's response characteristics, thinking they are our own.

Quote
The FI has raised it head again today around me. It does so every day.

I can say, that no matter what I say, no matter what people know intellectually about this 'thing', its hold on the minds and emotions of humanity is unshakable.

I know of no one, aside from myself, who has succeeded in escaping the grip of the FI. There may be people in here, or elsewhere that I know, who have escaped, but I don't for sure about it.

That will give you some idea of what we are up against. Its tentacles permeate every aspect of our lives. But worse than that, despite we may even know intellectually about this trap, in fact, we love the FI like nothing else. We love it more than anything else in our world or life. We cling to it and defend it to our death.

The FI is who we are - it is our identity.

I won't even speak of it's manifestation, because everyone will get upset and defend those traits as essentially human and personal. I give up. All I can do is enjoy the world as I pass through.

Quote
It won't work. No amount of probing will free you from what has been so long installed. It is too clever for that.

When it's shipping out the goods, there is no way you can stop it because you are completely consumed at that point.

Where you have to tackle it is where it has set up its constructs. But recognising those isn't going to help, because they are far too clever.

The only way to deal with it is to counter with repetitive and specific practice. Yes there are some that are very clever practices, but on the whole, it is the combined force of years of practice, until your emotional and mental being become too distasteful for any foreign investment.

Quote
What's the point of lining up endless spooks from every culture and time, and hoping they are all the same? Where does that get us?

What way...? Start by acknowledging that boredom is a withdrawal symptom - the best approach is always cold turkey.

Quote
So here lies a man
who sought to be free
His motto in life
was "I don't agree!"

Quote
I know of no one, aside from myself, who has succeeded in escaping the grip of the FI. There may be people in here, or elsewhere that I know, who have escaped, but I don't for sure about it.

There is a very revealing reason for this. It is almost impossible to know if a person has released themselves from the FI unless you actually live with them. You can't easily tell from a distance or a casual acquaintance.

To the trained eye you can see the embedded constructs in place, so you can make a good guess when it is obvious the FI is alive and well. But as with romance, people are able to put on a good show when connecting to others via the internet or for short periods.

It is amazing how all is revealed once you spend substantial time with another. That is the real test.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 01, 2013, 12:40:07 PM
Also brought over with Michael's permission.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 01, 2013, 01:44:10 PM
This is interesting I posted this at the same time Cherryarc posted on the Matrix. I see the foreign installation not as an alien outside force, but like the Jungian collective unconscious, which affects the whole and we must work to individuate from.

Jung believed the archetypes of the psyche were collective and universal and he is very right about this. And by working with them we could individuate from the whole.

However we still are all connected. That will not change. But seeing the world with new eyes is breaking free of the collective. We do this by doing the work, learning what it is to be wise, working with our dreams, and growing as spiritual beings and evolving from being mere mortal human beings.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 01, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
The best film I have seen on the FI is Lantana. If you watch this film, you will see exactly what the FI is all about.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 01, 2013, 05:38:46 PM
The best film I have seen on the FI is Lantana. If you watch this film, you will see exactly what the FI is all about.

Lantana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lantana_(film)

One of the characters in the movie, his name is Nik.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 01, 2013, 07:06:05 PM
For the sake of revisiting this theme, and to save me going over stuff, here is a post Nichi found of mine from god knows where back in 2006, but I think it puts the case quite well:


CC talked of these in one of his later books. Those who know anything of the life of CC post fame, have come to be suspicious of these flyers.

i have not personally seen large heavy flying slugs, though I enjoy the image. i was already somewhat along the road by the time i read his flyer stories, and i had not till then formulated this view. but when i read his words, i knew immediately what he was talking about - i hadn’t seen that they too were spirits. and when the idea hit me i jumped for joy that someone else had seen this insidious thing - such a relief!

but what are we to do? this thing whatever you call it has a hold on the mind of humanity.

long time ago a strange people came the land. they were serious and fiery. they had a sacred ceremony where they stood in a circle. then one would step into the middle, with a knife (they worshiped the knife you know) with which that man or woman would proceed to cut themselves while all the others watched in horror and pleasure, as they wallowed in pain and despair. needless to say in their worldly behaviour, they were cruel and ruthless, eventually enslaving the whole land.

they were an evil morbid tribe, who depressed the whole nation - and they set out and sucked of the pain of others, thus creating more, they did harvest.

there existed an earlier DNA group. they were fair and light people who loved laughter and life. they too had a sacred ceremony, where they would all stand in a circle, facing outwards, in complete silence - sometimes for hours. they painted wherever they went, leaving behind the imprint of their minds - they still exist today, though they are a very rare minority, who generally go around in a sad disguise, just to fit in, like living in a rain coat. but underneath they suffer from fits of laughter, or ecstasy.

so eventually these self-inflictors got the upper hand, and made films about themselves, wrote books about themselves, and generally infested the natives.

there is a special breed of ‘concern’ that runs in families. it is extremely powerful, and self-righteous. casting its net of sour lollies, convincing us we are lonely. that was their real coup, when they introduced that one. its been down hill since then, and all the lonely people consume their own maya with anxiety or anger, till they look out those two eyes like frightened hollow logs...

the other grouping, by contrast, love to foster their maya, and praise each other for sporting a fine crop. they would spread their maya in games, especially male female games, which were a great favourite. truly beautiful displays of maya could be enjoyed by everyone.

the interlopers, would also use a special kind of maya, which they projected onto the screen of the mind - projecting the very shape of the heart, this was their subtle weapon - projecting the emotional landscape, describing the ‘text’ of life. but underpinned by a yearning for imaginary worlds, that were held with passionate white knuckled fear. Oh such a juicy drop!

so you could sit on the hills about the town and watch in the old days, as great beams of maya lit the night sky, and explosive maya battles would be watched with wonder and delight. these days the few of us left have learnt the art of perfect deception - not a tortured soul could tell, we learn to walk in perfect imitation, and to whistle in silence.

just drop the whole thing! who cares? let it go, look at the night sky, and open your mouth - stand in wonder. then look back at the self doubt, the slights endured, the sorrows, with a mild sense of bewilderment... fancy, thinking of that all day! what a stupid waste of time.

look out your two eyes - there it is right in front, all about you is your dancing partner.

............

and you know the sound that flyers hate most?

laughter

silence baffles them completely

competence gives them indigestion

beauty, even they stand and ponder


m
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 01, 2013, 10:40:17 PM

It's not that I don't like these.. subjects but I find that they create more shades than light.

Maybe it's because of the conscience that I said in my first post.

gnat ,gnu..
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 01, 2013, 11:35:15 PM
I too saw the shadow's before they were talked about. The study of them came after CC brought the subject up in his books. I found it hard to give them all the attributes attributed to them.

If I may offer my slightly uncommon view, (the one that I use when it comes to the subject of the foreign installation). The term foreign installation is a little off . For example we know that bacteria exist in the human digestive tract. It is a fundamental component for digestion, arguably then it is better to view the body as a whole as emanations at large, the quasi illusory center of ones bubble of perception.  

Similarly on the level of energy then, the social foreign installation, likewise can/could also be looked at just as a program (an operating system), not so much as something foreign, as in not meant to be there, but simply a modus operandi for the universe to create singularities. Within that singularity then is the programming to consider oneself "the body" and the self "ego" as something separate from the bubble of perception/emanations at large.

Then within the static frame explanation I described in the "egypt" thread. Each static frame has material and energetic components unique to each moment in time.  As a beings energy rises,  
 with it comes an accompanying world view, the "foreign installation/social programing" fades as a new programming upgrade sees the old programing as just that. Then within the static frames, flyers faze out of the vibrational field/energetic matrix of the new higher radiant makeup of the new transformed being.

A natural metamorphosis, for humans. Nothing really foreign, just something to mutate, use. It is my belief that a fearful description is not needed and may even be harmful.



Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 02, 2013, 12:30:32 AM
I too saw the shadow's before they were talked about. The study of them came after CC brought the subject up in his books. I found it hard to give them all the attributes attributed to them.

If I may offer my slightly uncommon view, (the one that I use when it comes to the subject of the foreign installation). The term foreign installation is a little off . For example we know that bacteria exist in the human digestive tract. It is a fundamental component for digestion, arguably then it is better to view the body as a whole as emanations at large, the quasi illusory center of ones bubble of perception. 

Similarly on the level of energy then, the social foreign installation, likewise can/could also be looked at just as a program (an operating system), not so much as something foreign, as in not meant to be there, but simply a modus operandi for the universe to create singularities. Within that singularity then is the programming to consider oneself "the body" and the self "ego" as something separate from the bubble of perception/emanations at large.

Then within the static frame explanation I described in the "egypt" thread. Each static frame has material and energetic components unique to each moment in time.  As a beings energy rises, 
 with it comes an accompanying world view, the "foreign installation/social programing" fades as a new programming upgrade sees the old programing as just that. Then within the static frames, flyers faze out of the vibrational field/energetic matrix of the new higher radiant makeup of the new transformed being.

A natural metamorphosis, for humans. Nothing really foreign, just something to mutate, use. It is my belief that a fearful description is not needed and may even be harmful. -

I agree with that.

http://www.anogi.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/AETOS.1.jpeg

A pic I found-.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on August 02, 2013, 07:15:08 AM
Quote
i have not personally seen large heavy flying slugs, though I enjoy the image. i was already somewhat along the road by the time i read his flyer stories, and i had not till then formulated this view. but when i read his words, i knew immediately what he was talking about - i hadn’t seen that they too were spirits. and when the idea hit me i jumped for joy that someone else had seen this insidious thing - such a relief!

I have actually seen them before, I saw them in a dream state, They dispatch from a large grey cloud and are very much like large black slugs. They whip though the air and create a warm fuzzy feeling when they land on you, mostly in the head and neck area. In this dream state it was an exact duplicate of the real world except I could not move my body, It was pinned down. As I thought about what they were and got just a little worried at all, they would shoot from the cloud and attach to me, I woke up saying, "there is nothing here for you" and eventually I felt it leave. I might make a picture on photoshop for every one.


I was also going to quote something else from the same post, but I forget what it was.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 02, 2013, 08:29:04 AM
I am interested in perspectives , like lenses , considering things like , don iuan saying , " we must close your gap" to carlos ,
Travelling in the stream .
Sure i have seen things too , so i ask things like , what does a
Flyer look like , which seems to turn out the vaguest or most repetitive borrowed renditions.

I have seen beings of different forms within the room i slept from
A dreaming , and different , thats why i asked , which ones ?

And yet ......
I do still not eish to pursue that information , and even find that thinking
Backwards ,
Like if they even are real thrn no time to be pissing around with it ,
Just move into the light so to speak and get on with it not captured by fear although they can be frightening experiences.

Because i know something else and it is more
Valuable ,
Good dreams never came
Really from poor states ,

And rarely the reverse true also,

Except in the light of opportunities given .

And lulls can also brings some of
The great upswings ,

There is something else about a middle state ,
But i cant seem to think it right now to speak it .
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on August 02, 2013, 09:22:53 AM
I believe that if you can overcome the flyers you have accomplished awareness. When don juan was training carlos, I don't believe that there is such things as right handed and left handed awareness, I believe he was simply working with the flyers mind and slowly trying to remove it from him, until finally he gave him awareness of it and removed it, then he could finally see. There was a lot of secrets Don jaun could not tell carlos, simply because if he knew, he wouldnt have been able to receive the training properly. Even though Don Jauns teachings were far out and rigorous, His secrets are the most powerful information. You have to give thought to something, you have to ponder it if your ever going to figure it out. Developing awareness that has to do with the flyers I think is very important.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 02, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
It is very hard to talk about the FI or the flyers, because we get involved in a feedback loop. Without a clear perception of how this thing works, we end up speaking pointlessly. Just remember that in whatever way you like to image this matter, its primary manifestation is for people to be come obsessed with self concern. We worry over our self like a dog worries a bone. We also cut ourselves up - this is an extension of self-concern where we criticise and abuse ourself with negative thoughts. In all this obsession we drain energy, such that by the time of middle age we have lost our magical qualities.

This is easy to see in humans, that they look heavy, especially in their connection to the ground. We mistakenly call it being mature and responsible, but actually almost all humans become hollowed out shells. Part of this path we follow, is to restore that magical gift we are all born with. It's about stemming the drain, and discovering ways to increase the quantity and quality of flow into us of this particular fine kind of energy.

The ways to decrease the drain and increase the input, are a large part of the knowledge and skill of the Path.

Once you get significant traction on all the elements of the Path, it is not that difficult to make yourself distasteful to flyers. The FI is more difficult to deal with as it has such long history in our life as well as part of our ability to mix effectively with other people. But it can become just another element within us, like so many other things we are host to simply by being alive. We can isolate and identify its presence.

Humanity's outcome is not so optimistic. Unfortunately our species is on an involutionary path - it is spiralling inward, away from the universe and the great cohort of living beings that we share the earth and the universe with. It is a perceptual retreat, into an extreme self-obsession with our own collective being. This is fertile ground for flyers, and I suspect they have had a powerful hand in producing this involutionary path. For those who watch humanity, it is a worrying trend that can't continue indefinitely, as existing in isolated self-reflection is unsustainable. Just that the breakdown will be painful.

This raises another question. What is the role of those who have made significant progress on the path of spiritual development, to play a part in the Second Attention wars that are taking place for the control of humanity. My personal view is the same as DJ's - only the awareness of the 3rd Att can be an effective position from which to approach any 2nd Att issues, otherwise we become more entrapped than if we never left the 1st Att.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 02, 2013, 09:48:58 PM
Don Juan "The Active Side of Infinity. Chapter Mud Shadows

"We are energetic probes created by the universe," he continued as if he were oblivious to my presence, "and it's because we are possessors of energy that have awareness that we are the means by which the universe becomes aware of itself. The flyers are the implacable challengers. They cannot be taken as anything else. If we succeed in doing that, the universe allows us to continue."


Michael your last post is full of doom and gloom. The mud shadows are not that complicated, it is just that the topic is outside the cognitive reality of the first attention, and it is meant to be so. The universe is very old and parts of it indulge, so what, it will do no good judging the infinite directions life (intent) takes. It is our hardships successfully overcome that give individual beings strength.



Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 03, 2013, 11:08:53 AM
Doom and gloom? For who? If you mean my comments about humanity? Yes indeed - worse in fact. I can't begin to speak about the tragedy humanity has already sealed for itself, but that is not my task in this thread - sufficient to allude to it in principle.

To talk about the long journey of the universe is not relevant. The universe doesn't give a shit about this tiny speck in the cosmos - humanity's fate is like the fate of a gnat we kill without thought. In there is our own daily struggle - equally meaningless in the grand scheme. But bloody important to this little me I can assure you!

For us here in this forum ... alas, I speak about things because the topic suggests, and I like to speak. But I'm not fooled.

Facing us is a sheer wall. There is no foothold, no reference point, not top nor bottom. In fact there is no way whatsoever to scale this wall, but that is our task! Anyone who thinks they can flit over it on a whim is not worth bothering with. This task will drain every last ounce of blood from our soul, till it lies dead at our feet. Only those who have witnessed the death of their own souls, only those who have utterly lost all possible hope, and yet push forward for no reason whatsoever, except that it is the only way to live: only they find the answer to this wall. I say that because I have been through it, and I have lived to tell the story.

Believe in an ice-cream spirit if you will, I don't care, but I am here to speak of things final.

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 03, 2013, 12:44:27 PM
Well, I think to talk about the long journey is relevant, and I don't kill gnats without a thought. So we can hash that out if you like, or not, that's up to you, this is your forum.

As you know, or at least I tried to explain to you in the egypt thread that the universe is made out of static frames we move through in my view. Everything already exists, so nothing is avoided or not experienced by the universe. We are individual aspects of the universe with a packet of doings within that immensity.

Doors appear through walls as we become energetically in the ballpark to be able to go through them, and that is an energetic fact, a final one if you like. There are powers in this reality manipulating timelines, so that beings with first attention focus on what they choose for them to align with, that is the energetic binding force which the flyers are a part of that makeup the world of the first attention. Beings availing themselves of the third attention are not bound by that manipulation, and can see it a mile away.

You said:

Quote
Believe in an ice-cream spirit if you will, I don't care, but I am here to speak of things final.

Michael you have a little maneuver, you make a comment like that. If I say something about it, then you will say that you meant it for the general reader out there not me. Consider this my comment about that tidbit.

From the Magical Mystery tour, looked for a good yellow submarine and blue meanie vid but :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap6kSV_U45o)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 03, 2013, 03:26:25 PM
Doom and gloom? For who? If you mean my comments about humanity? Yes indeed - worse in fact. I can't begin to speak about the tragedy humanity has already sealed for itself, but that is not my task in this thread - sufficient to allude to it in principle.

To talk about the long journey of the universe is not relevant. The universe doesn't give a shit about this tiny speck in the cosmos - humanity's fate is like the fate of a gnat we kill without thought. In there is our own daily struggle - equally meaningless in the grand scheme. But bloody important to this little me I can assure you!

For us here in this forum ... alas, I speak about things because the topic suggests, and I like to speak. But I'm not fooled.

Facing us is a sheer wall. There is no foothold, no reference point, not top nor bottom. In fact there is no way whatsoever to scale this wall, but that is our task! Anyone who thinks they can flit over it on a whim is not worth bothering with. This task will drain every last ounce of blood from our soul, till it lies dead at our feet. Only those who have witnessed the death of their own souls, only those who have utterly lost all possible hope, and yet push forward for no reason whatsoever, except that it is the only way to live: only they find the answer to this wall. I say that because I have been through it, and I have lived to tell the story.

Believe in an ice-cream spirit if you will, I don't care, but I am here to speak of things final.



I know eventually humanity will be doomed, but I do not think it is in the near future. Everybody has a bomb and so far no one is using it. So I do have some hope for humanity. We may be clinging by a thread, but there are still a lot of good people in the world trying to keep it all going.

I don't know if so the universe doesn't give a shit. If this were so why so much interventions which occur to get people to 'wake up' and ascend from all of this?
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 03, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
I know eventually humanity will be doomed, but I do not think it is in the near future. Everybody has a bomb and so far no one is using it. So I do have some hope for humanity. We may be clinging by a thread, but there are still a lot of good people in the world trying to keep it all going.

I don't know if so the universe doesn't give a shit. If this were so why so much interventions which occur to get people to 'wake up' and ascend from all of this?

One must "see" to get this, the universe is multifaceted, it has elements of itself that care and a great amount of it that does not. In the quote from DJ I posted earlier he stated something close to acknowledging that by saying that "we" are the means that the universe becomes aware of itself.

To have made singularities the universe needed something to maintain a self reflective entity, so it housed an ego in a body suit and injected into that singularity an emotional spectrum, one of them being compassion. The universe requires singularities that want to have nagualistic powers to go through a process, that process is to wake up to what they are. When someone says that the universe does not care about humanity, that is wrong, it does because I do, but I also see why and how that caring came about.

Of course that caring came about because I experienced lifetimes as a human. How did I experience lifetimes as a human? By accepting to forget myself, to be born in an environment that emphasized first attention being and doing, which in turn is the reason for the Foreign Instillation.

Have not talked about "The movement of the assemblage point of earth much over here in this forum, but if you have not read what I have said in the "egypt" thread then please do. Michael and I did not see eye to eye in our view, but in that explanation is the beginnings of the cognitive view that empowers a singularity to do just that, move the assemblage point of earth.

Being very pragmatic about all this, we must accept firstly that if something is foreign, one must have the perception that something is not the "self". So when humans talk about the fate of mankind what they are doing is projecting that intent out into the universe and then complaining about what they themselves pulse out. We are not helpless victims of the universe, we are the universe and the intent of the universe comes from each and every being that is able to pulse out intent. To be trapped by intent is to not know what intent is and that is the again first attention doings.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 03, 2013, 04:58:06 PM
When someone says that the universe does not care about humanity, that is wrong, it does because I do, but I also see why and how that caring came about.


Yes I agree and this is where I disagree with Michael as well. If I looked at the science of the universe, in its creative/destructive element, sure I could say it does not care because it just does what it does. However when I see that 'we' are the universe, becoming aware of itself, then I see it does care. This is why I have hope for humanity. Yes, many are asleep, however, many are waking up and trying to make a difference.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 03, 2013, 08:25:38 PM
Just for the sake of reference, is anyone interested in giving a description of how, or whether the Flyers and the Foreign Installation are at all connected?  Seems some people refer to them as one and the same.  Is this accurate?
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 03, 2013, 08:29:39 PM

There is no such thing as a foreign installation skyflower.

smile. And the flyers should be off everybody's minds.  :)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 03, 2013, 08:50:56 PM
Just for the sake of reference, is anyone interested in giving a description of how, or whether the Flyers and the Foreign Installation are at all connected?  Seems some people refer to them as one and the same.  Is this accurate?

Although I have seen the flyers shadows, with my eyes, and they do appear stronger more visible around someone that is angry, showing high emotions etc. I have not captured and interrogated one for the truth of what's its up to. Though I trust there may have been seers able to get into the makeup of the issue back in the day, so I am willing to accept what they say, but that is beyond me at the moment.

My preference is not to use the flyers in the description at all, and separate it from the effects that Castaneda and Don Juan attributed to them, because I don't know that for sure, but obviously since it is part of the knowledge base that readers of CC have I can slip into it. So when I say or read Foreign installation I mean it as the programming prevalent in the first attention, that has the effect of having people act out of integrity.


Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 03, 2013, 09:28:43 PM


smile. And the flyers should be off everybody's minds.  :)

Agreed.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 03, 2013, 09:30:04 PM
So when I say or read Foreign installation I mean it as the programming prevalent in the first attention, that has the effect of having people act out of integrity.



Thanks for this, nemo.  This is how I understand as well.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 03, 2013, 11:25:16 PM
Just for the sake of reference, is anyone interested in giving a description of how, or whether the Flyers and the Foreign Installation are at all connected?  Seems some people refer to them as one and the same.  Is this accurate?

I kinda see the foreign installation as the hive and the flyers as the bees, coming out to roost.

However I do believe if you lead a spiritual life, one is not tasteful for the flyers. Inner silence, meditation, and detaching from the worldly things makes it more difficult for them to cling.

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 04, 2013, 07:48:31 AM
Directional movement .
The universe ,
i like to climb ,
The law i see says this,
In order to climb ,
perception must become enhanced ,
And enhancement comes via awareness,
Awareness is not ignorance ,
Is seems to be as though the opposite,
In order to move ,
Within reflection and seeing ,
Unified , requires balance , or else something else occurs ,
The existence of an ego being a gravity of sorts, within a close range density ,
The expansion and balance struck between expansion and contraction ,
Movement ,
So like the heart as guide , towards movement of climbing awareness,
As the truth the light and the way ,
I will be unsurprised , that the " time" as witnessed as awareness ,
Is acutually neither here nor there ,
so what we are viewing depends on in actuality literally our position of assemblege.
Within a cluster , of time , and the word " frequency " as a literal translation something like this ,
The singularities ability " which again will not be surprised actually is non compliant within singular position or universe as stationary object " unfathomable unit appearing and dissappearing perhaps atomically ,

As " dreamer " and "dreamed"transcribe harmoniously however much so to imply existence having neither conceived beginning or end .
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 04, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
Quote
runningstream said:

The singularities ability " which again will not be surprised actually is non compliant within singular position or universe as stationary object " unfathomable unit appearing and dissappearing perhaps atomically

Yes  ;D
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 04, 2013, 04:30:57 PM
I kinda see the foreign installation as the hive and the flyers as the bees, coming out to roost.

However I do believe if you lead a spiritual life, one is not tasteful for the flyers. Inner silence, meditation, and detaching from the worldly things makes it more difficult for them to cling.



Agreed on all counts!

I see it like, after you raise your vibe to a certain level, they can't really stick, like you repel them, in a  way.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 04, 2013, 06:35:38 PM
Agreed on all counts!

I see it like, after you raise your vibe to a certain level, they can't really stick, like you repel them, in a  way.

Doesn't mean IB's wont show up to cause fear in ascending, however we can repel the flyers to me more easily than they.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 04, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
I expect the flyers are happy now.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 04, 2013, 10:02:50 PM
I expect the flyers are happy now.

That is so negative LOL! I think they hate us cause we are aware of them. There are plenty of folks who are not aware of them who the flyers feed on their misery, depression, sadness, anger, and despair.

They come by us and say "Hmm this don't taste good. There is a whole slew of humanity we can devour!"

LOL
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 05, 2013, 01:47:08 AM
I expect the flyers are happy now.

Lot's of things implied there Michael.

The following is from your forum parameters. I feel this last comment by you does not fall into your own guidelines, emphasis on the term respectful. 


Note: we are not here to be friendly. We are here to respect each person has their own path. But we will challenge your understanding of where that path is leading you, and your commitment to it.

This is about respectful and honest feedback. As with academia, we expect you to be able to speak to your intent, and to respond to informed challenge or appreciation.

Step up to the mark, don’t hide and slither about. Own up to your spirit, and be ready to learn.


Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 05, 2013, 02:06:13 AM
Michael you may be correct.

But

There is a big difference between being correct about something and explaining your position. Than implying something with no explanation, and then insinuating you know something those you are interacting with do not. This is manipulative, and lacks integrity, Whether you are correct or not.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 05, 2013, 03:59:22 AM
I was hoping for a conversation to take a different turn for once lol
But its ok , because seeing into some things makes space for something more .

i have a story about a boy who never dealt with the inception the way that it was said,
Because the direction was looking to find fertile soil with which to push onward too ,
When the inception was givem repeatedly again and again , pretty soon the roses went out of those cheeks ,
And everywhere the child looked people were pointing saying don" t you see the inception ?
never understanding it went like this for eternia,
And the direction approached repeatedly in recipe to be taken ,
Yet the child just spat it out preferring another taste .
Maybe even one day he would understand why it was necessary for some .
It did seem stupid .
And so many people did seem like robots and things , so the child would try to inflict happiness .
Every could you tell how the weak in spirit would not rise up and how they did not see or hear something more than that rabble .

Some feelings .
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 05, 2013, 09:03:42 AM
The FI can't be addressed directly. Think about this: why do you all come to this forum, or any forum? Because of the Foreign Installation.

Believe me, it's far cleverer than you could ever imagine, and it will kill you before allowing itself to be taken down. Make no mistake, it will destroy you before you can destroy it. If we seek to escape the enchantment of the FI, we have to come at it from a different angle - a position of superior power.

At present, it is sufficient to know about this matter. The FI will be removed from its power as the inevitable consequence of progress on the Path. In short, by killing yourself first. And that has to happen for very different reasons, and at the right time and place.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 05, 2013, 10:10:37 AM

? You would like some industrial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlOAMKTj0hU
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 05, 2013, 10:22:16 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x4GC0-Z0ZI
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 05, 2013, 11:02:45 AM
I expect the flyers are happy now.

I don't think they know 'happy'.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 05, 2013, 11:05:02 AM
The FI can't be addressed directly. Think about this: why do you all come to this forum, or any forum? Because of the Foreign Installation.



Maybe you can say that some people go to some forums because of the influence of the foreign installation, but I don't bevel it is accurate to say that we all come here, or to any forum because of the FI's influence.  There are many reasons people seek out like minded individuals to connect with, not all people have the same reason, and not all people are irreversibly swayed, unawares by the FI.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 05, 2013, 08:27:35 PM
If people are looking for entertainment or fun or especially an escape online, then I could say its the FI and they are susceptible to flyers. However, if they are looking for like minds and for some wisdom, then I would say this would not be related to the FI.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 05, 2013, 11:34:47 PM
If people are looking for entertainment or fun or especially an escape online, then I could say its the FI and they are susceptible to flyers. However, if they are looking for like minds and for some wisdom, then I would say this would not be related to the FI.

Yes, so there's the question for each of us - not about what we tell ourselves or others, but what is our real motivation?
The problem is that our real motivation conceals itself.
It takes a profound realisation to see ourselves, and that realisation can only come on breaking the beam. Break that beam, and the FI will take care of itself.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on August 06, 2013, 01:19:43 AM
What you do defines who you are, no
Who you are defines what you do, right?
Surely its not what you do, but the way that you do it.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 06, 2013, 06:08:11 PM
Michael can you shed some light on the terms you use. Like beam, we, us, Foreign installation, shadow, death, Path.

The flyers as presented by Castaneda are not restricted to the world of the tonal and are inorganic, meaning they wield influence after death also. To transcend the influence of the flyers then is more the ability for reach consciousness levels outside of their influence.

Also can you give us a few examples of people that have walked the path you speak of with success.

Synchronistically came across this, adding it for interest, the super soldier stuff is intriguing.

Bases 25 Part Two SSS Rachel (Black Goo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohx7bSeD5bQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohx7bSeD5bQ)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 06, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
In my extended tonal family there is a high school art teacher, whom I have conversations with you guessed it, "art". Recently during one family gathering, I thought I may try to expand the conversation with her into the energetics of art, the state of mind, the artist is in, transfered to the art. Being an artist myself, and a seer, I know I instill in my art an energetic thrust, subtle energies if you like. Like a Stradivarius the maker instills something into it that a copy just cannot duplicate.

One example in the Castaneda books refers to a sorcerer/warrior putting all his ____ into a rock he was holding just before being captured by his enemies. After being found by one of the apprentices the energetics caused some turmoil for him.

Anyway I got the glazed clouded look, and a shrug of disinterest, from her. I know that subject/aspect is of keen interest to me, and if needed could give clear examples of factual data to back up what I was saying. What I am getting at is that she is not wrong and I am not wrong, both points are valid. When I say points I mean assemblage point positions. What has limited her, and therefore what she teaches and instills in others is of the same visual energetic range and view, that is typical of the first attention being and doing.

When we talk about something like the flyers, individual beings may have found different ways to overcome the same obstacle. I have done my best to explain "my" view, my view backed up by my experience. Understanding what I say after I have done my best is really up to the other persons life path and inclinations much like my artist family/friend. (that is directed to you Michael) The flyers though are in the realm of talk outside of the first attention, so anyone grasping accepting it are on their way to another cognitive view.

Seeing energy directly is an avenue to dealing with any energy that imposes itself on another, not just flyers or the Foreign Installation.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ubmWBaO-Ggk/UNv17u-ukHI/AAAAAAAAApA/YD7E3Fq2YpM/s653/joy%2520with%2520grass%2520and%2520sky.jpg)


  
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Skyflower on August 06, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
In my extended tonal family there is a high school art teacher, whom I have conversations with you guessed it, "art". Recently during one family gathering, I thought I may try to expand the conversation with her into the energetics of art, the state of mind, the artist is in, transfered to the art. Being an artist myself, and a seer, I know I instill in my art an energetic thrust, subtle energies if you like. Like a Stradivarius the maker instills something into it that a copy just cannot duplicate.




  


Aah, yes! I do this, with my poetry and artwork, but also with my cooking!
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 06, 2013, 11:01:09 PM
Nice tree nemo. As for instilling a particular kind of energy into art buy the artist - I have taken that for granted for a long time, and indeed most artists I have known would agree, albeit in their own words and concepts - not mine. The difference is important though, because I feel artists have vacated their responsibility ... but that's another subject.

We should realise that the concepts of Foreign Instillation or flyer, along with so many concepts DJ introduced, are simply ways of speaking about things which do not fit within that framework of language or 'idea'. We have to create a handle to assist us in dealing, but there are many handles and we should never believe the handle is the thing. DJ used multiple ways of talking about the same thing - everything lead to the same point, but the pathways were not only arbitrary, they also had significance in the fuller understanding.

One of the problems with speaking of the FI is that our language itself is owned by the FI. So I use words and terms to come to comprehension from different angles, not all analytical. Thus the word 'owned' is a metaphor, not an accurate black-letter term that asks to be defended on the basis of grammatical rigour. It is not possible to speak of the FI objectively, because we are using a form of understanding exchange that has long ago become infused by the intent of the FI. However, I will attempt to say some things, so long as you realise these are only indicators for the same kind of receptivity nemo speaks of about in awareness of energy in art.

The FI is not a gadget implanted in some part of the brain. It could be better thought of as a hue. It is an underlying direction of intent in the whole way humanity perceives the world, and it has been different in different cultures. It suffuses our sense of who we are thoroughly, such that to attack it is to attack our very being, or so we deeply believe.

It set up a condition in our mind which activates the emotional centre of the mind - not the emotional centre of our body itself. There is a sub centre of each of the major components of our being, in each of the other major components. Thus there an emotional sub-centre in the mind, which becomes triggered by thoughts and 'bundles' of thoughts, which we could call complexes or patterns.

The FI filters through our entire mental processes to arrange a condition whereby we become emotionally charged. This charged emotion is emanated out of us - that is the important thing to realise. Emotions are like energetic light that floods out of us. It is not too big a step to realise that this discharge can be food for others, which is why we love and are energised by good entertainment. But the FI is designed to emphasise dark emotions - heavy, brooding, fearful etc. Not necessarily directly - that would be too simple. It set us up with the attraction to uplifting emotions, but with the underlying trajectory of them turning sour. It is very clever. The end result is a suffusion of depressive energy throughout our own being and into the world around us. The flyers are a way of describing the spirits who like to feed of this anguish - they are anguish spirits, and their effect is to drag us down and make us heavy.

Because the FI has embedded itself in our mind so effectively, it can not be eradicated. To do that would be to have to rebuild the mind from scratch, and would also separate us from our fellow humans in an autistic way that would be deleterious for our wellbeing. It is too late to eradicate. But it can be repositioned.

To reposition the FI, we have to break it's command. This command is like a beam of current that we are totally transfixed into - it is our identity. It is not the only beam option, but while we are transfixed within it, it is the only option - that is the nature of 'beams': they are each total universes in themselves.

To break the command of the FI we have to break the beam of our identity. DJ also spoke about this from a different angle when we talked of breaking our reflective shell. He also spoke of it when talking about detachment, when he explained no matter how hard to try to develop detachment, it can only come as a consequence of breaking the shell. Breaking the shell is just another way of describing breaking the beam. Both mean death.

It means death because there are two deaths - the perception of death as we approach it, and the actual death of the body. Adepts separate out these two, and have the audacity to attempt the first death while putting off the second. Which can't always work, because it's only by approaching the second death that we are able to deal with the first, otherwise it's just another mental game. This is a very sophisticated manoeuvre, but because it is actually written into another beam, which can cross our dominant beam, many people fall into this separation by sheer accident, which can be a good or bad thing for them depending on how they are able to put themselves back together, like Humpty Dumpty couldn't. Adepts of the Path - the path to realisation - know what they are doing, so are better placed to know how to rebuild their identity: they come this way by intent, not accident.

Once the beam of our identity has been snapped, the hue of the FI is also shattered. We don't need to root it out, we just need to grasp this opportunity to place it in our tool bag along with all our other tools, to be used when we decree, instead of its decree.

But the shattering of the FI hue, and replacement with a different direction that we 'face', a different beam, means that the flyers are not able to drink our milk like they used to, because they now find it has a flavour that is distasteful for them - it lacks that morbid anguish flavour, even when it is sad and fearful. The emotions become fresh, whereas the flyers prefer stale solar-plexus energy.

I could say a lot more about the taste the flyers prefer, because it has become an experience of considerable fascination for me. But that's for another time. One thing I will say, is that the energy generated by the FI is vicious. You can talk about it to almost everyone, in the abstract, like we are doing here, but as soon as you name it when it is activated, be ready for a viscous assault back at you. This assault is viscous by dint of the very fact it has the full backing of the person's soul. To attack the FI in another is to attack their soul, which is why the remedy needs to be so severe. (Rudolf Steiner has some good lectures on the death of the soul as a necessary gateway on the Path. These ideas I speak of are common in every serious tradition.)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 07, 2013, 12:46:44 AM
 
 :) that was a moth.

So you know.

... :P...
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 07, 2013, 12:17:12 PM
Nice post Michael, I understand it completely.

Looks like we have come down on the same issue, with slightly differing views, terms and experience. The Toltecs called this topic the topic of topics. When DJ stated that they (the flyers)give us their minds, it is that one thing that is perplexing to the being grappling with the enormity of what really is possession.

How to recognize the self and then distance what is essentially two minds. Will add more later just a quick thanks.

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 07, 2013, 02:47:29 PM
It's probably safe to say the flyer mind becomes our mind, and we have to work at removing it. I believe leading a spiritual life can do this.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 07, 2013, 06:28:06 PM
It's probably safe to say the flyer mind becomes our mind, and we have to work at removing it. I believe leading a spiritual life can do this.

I like the idea of changing assemblage point positions in respect to this.

The idea of love also -even if it doesn't fit in the current energies let's say expressed. It remains a key, doesn't it.

heart ...energy. Maybe the best source of Patience.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 07, 2013, 06:55:16 PM
don't know if I spell correctly ...

...but ...

I see the new leo cycle striken fiercely.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 07, 2013, 08:30:35 PM

When you try your best but you don't succeed
When you get what you want but not what you need
When you feel so tired but you can't sleep
Stuck in reverse

And the tears come streaming down your face
When you lose something you can't replace
When you love someone but it goes to waste
Could it be worse?

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

And high up above or down below
When you're too in love to let it go
But if you never try you'll never know
Just what you're worth

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

Tears stream down your face
When you lose something you cannot replace
Tears stream down your face
And I

Tears stream down your face
I promise you I will learn from my mistakes
Tears stream down your face
And I

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

Coldplay - Fix you
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 07, 2013, 10:03:34 PM
I like the idea of changing assemblage point positions in respect to this.

The idea of love also -even if it doesn't fit in the current energies let's say expressed. It remains a key, doesn't it.

heart ...energy. Maybe the best source of Patience.

I posted a quote on the assemblage point today. I was pondering on this, the ability to see into other worlds.

Being impeccable is quite distasteful to the fliers, also definitely following a path with a heart.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 07, 2013, 11:27:15 PM
So lets see if we can bring the issue of the flyers to an irreducible truth. It has been my experience that when descriptions get intricate in an attempt to bring clarity, often the terms used fall short for the receiver in an overwhelm, of it does not compute.

For instance even if someone has tied a shoelace the description of tying the knot is not so easy to comprehend in the written word, then someone reading that same description never having tied a bow, can even get more lost. We can see what the author of the words is saying when we can conjure up a visual of what we have done and follow along in the description. Not so for those outside the experience.

Much like my family member that did not understand me when I brought up the energetics of art Michael and Skyflower had no difficulty in grasping what I said because that was part of their view.

What is that view? Understanding/seeing energy, directly. So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.

 
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 08, 2013, 01:37:50 AM
So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.

Absolutely. When I am with someone who is 'in the grip' of a flyer, the overwhelming experience for me is the gap in awareness of what is actually happening. I'm convinced it would be significantly easier if the other person could actually see/sense the reality - hidden for them and patently obvious for me. This 'gap' has been another matter of examination for me, as, if I am able to release myself from the pain of identification, or the pain of wanting to help but being totally unable due to the no-basis of shared awareness, then something transformative happens for me. This gap has a powerful energetic fillip to awareness, which I was first alerted to by Gurdjieff, but once I succeeded in my 'allowing' of the gap, I discovered something extraordinary happens to me, which I don't think I can explain.

However, being in the grip of the FI is far more difficult to see. It is often only after I have seen the consequences of the flyers in attendance, that I am able to trace back as to how the FI created the situation in the first place. This is no easy task. In this case, although ignorance of the host is still the critical thing, it is quite a different experience for me to witness, than with the flyers - one is subtle while the other is obvious.

Then comes the problem of self-observation, when I know I am in the grip of the flyers, but not always able to release. That for me has been a growing capacity over the years. I can still recall one particular occasion, in which something snapped inside me, and I alone of everyone in the event, dropped completely out of the emotion, and was able to easily resolve the tension that was building. This is not always possible, or easy.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 08, 2013, 02:42:47 AM


Quote
Being impeccable is quite distasteful to the fliers, also definitely following a path with a heart.


yes, it is said that even death baffles and may pause to impeccability. ;D (An impeccable life)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 08, 2013, 03:14:55 AM
So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.


Yes,
certainly a truth.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 08, 2013, 07:03:54 AM
So Ignorance, = A lack of knowledge, a state of unaware.

A being then that lacks a specific knowledge, or just a being that is unaware?

   
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 08, 2013, 07:52:31 AM

Nemo- with respect because I posted plenty lately,

I think you are that one that should answer this one.

_-_
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 08, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
Nemo- with respect because I posted plenty lately,

I think you are that one that should answer this one.

_-_

Nikos I am more interested in others weighing in, than my answer.

Fyi, this is how things work for me, I ask questions and the answers come to me. So knowledge, energetically speaking comes from the questions that are asked, and it need not be another human that answers it.

DJ Tales of Power:

"The moths are the heralds, or, better yet, the guardians of eternity," don Juan said after the sound had stopped. "For some reason, or for no reason at all, they are the depositories of the gold dust of eternity."
The metaphor was foreign to me. I asked him to explain it.
"The moths carry a dust on their wings," he said. "A dark gold dust. That dust is the dust of knowledge."
His explanation had made the metaphor even more obscure. I vacillated [* vacillate- be undecided about something; waver between conflicting positions or courses] for a moment, trying to find the best way of wording my question. But he began to talk again.
"Knowledge is a most peculiar affair," he said, "especially for a warrior. Knowledge for a warrior is something that comes at once, engulfs him, and passes on."
"What does knowledge have to do with the dust on the wings of moths?" I asked after a long pause.
"Knowledge comes floating like specks of gold dust; the same dust that covers the wings of moths. So, for a warrior, knowledge is like taking a shower, or being rained on by specks of dark gold dust."


Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 08, 2013, 10:26:46 AM
Nikos I am more interested in others weighing in, than my answer.


Somehow, I am more interested in others weighing in as well. With which I mean
I wanna see development in this issue.

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 08, 2013, 12:51:12 PM
I think unawareness is a form of ignorance, but ignorance can also be ignoring the truth.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Kal on August 08, 2013, 02:20:40 PM

Some thoughts from the earlier posts.

I think the flyer mind, the flyers as beings and the FI (which for me in the final analysis is one sort of a program or a pattern) doesn't follow us in the 'other world'.When we die or leave.

The other, that because everyone is unique he/she has his/her own way of dealing with 'it', this crap

and of course 'in the end' he can choose of how he/she will see it and what he/she will do about it.

I think the capacities are limitless in these respects and I personally feel it's a little crap to think and have "it" on our mind.

Yet again everyone is unique.

Hands up.

Nick
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on August 08, 2013, 05:12:29 PM
A being then that lacks a specific knowledge, or just a being that is unaware?

An unaware person can have specific knowledge, and an aware person can lack specific knowledge.
But what is an aware or unaware person?

This is not easy, because the word tends to mean 'awareness of'. Nonetheless, we often use the word to describe someone who has woken up to their critical opportunity as a being alive. I call this the 'first enlightenment'. In the path of knowledge, the first enlightenment is only the beginning, where one sees the Path.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 08, 2013, 08:27:48 PM
What is an aware or unaware person?

Yes, so maybe a better irreducible term could be "awake"

So then we could have beings that are aware of specific knowledge, and not be awake. For instance someone could be told about flyers and what they are up to, but not grasp that knowledge and make it their own.

A form of something more akin to lucid awake, maybe we need a new word for it. kelucidawa lukecidawa lol

If someone has woken up in this reality, their cup is full of something so to speak. Rather than the flyer being cast out, it does not find a place to engage. That something could be called energy, but there is also an aspect of an accompanying knowledge, with a keen attention level, speed, intensity.

Quote
Nikov said:
I think the flyer mind, the flyers as beings and the FI (which for me in the final analysis is one sort of a program or a pattern) doesn't follow us in the 'other world'.When we die or leave.

This is an important point, but I think we should leave it for later. Not sure we can accept what you said without an explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaSDjckr3nk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaSDjckr3nk)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 08, 2013, 08:41:26 PM
I think unawareness is a form of ignorance, but ignorance can also be ignoring the truth.

I agree, but truth is a weird thing, that is why I am trying to get to the irreducible truth. For instance someone may be meant to not grasp something. I had a girlfriend in my youth who really wanted to marry me, and I was okay with that kinda if she could get some of the metaphysical stuff I was into. So I forced the issue trying to wake her up, she was motivated because she wanted to be with me. My attempts ended when something energetic shot out of her at one point when I was asserting pressure on her, I actually saw it visually, rainbow fibers, and when they landed in me it was like currents of electrical energy. So when someone is not grasping something, and I believe Michael alluded to this earlier, that it must be meant to be. So you will often see me ask for permission to say something, and that is the reason.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: CherryArc on August 08, 2013, 11:53:20 PM
I believe that Awareness can be measured in the capacity to be aware of something, A sort of over arching awareness that grants sub divisions of awareness if you want to. Me for example, I can be completely unaware of something and yet be able to talk about it blindly, and somehow get exactly what I need to hear. For example I had a recent situation that I posted on the other forum, and I rambled and discussed feelings. Knot showed up and completely gave me the answers or knowledge or awareness I needed. And it brought me profound clarity. I am not even able to know what it is I am asking until and answer arises.  I am almost able to compare levels of awareness if not the content of what I need but the intensity and am able to use that to see areas that I am lacking in.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 09, 2013, 02:46:08 AM
This is basically how i see what you are saying .

When applying it to what i see.

a fully opened gap equals " source"

" non coagulating resonance"

" god"

The alignment within spectrum functional movement ' with s'pectrum is something else.

And leads to " god" or " source" or " the wheel "

So now my awareness when asked to align a new " beam "

Requires one of two things ,

Alignment with " god source " as a complete energetic being

Or else abandonment to source as lack of volition .

And then ........

I also understand the use of a greater " force" as

External pressure to liberate a density .

Also a " golden hue "

What this means to say is .

The following to liberation to " god " using ones own volition requires a path

Of ones own volition in Completeness.

or the second hand having completed via path being given ,

Yet reaching a state of discontinuity to ones own self as unity

Finding replacement by given remedy by unsafe teaching or incomplete method .

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 09, 2013, 02:53:39 AM
The unsafe part ..... The breaking of eggs , that " crack when having pressure placed upon them "
Cracked gourd.

Hence , the sealing of cracks . Or else it is just a game of force
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 09, 2013, 02:54:39 AM
The respective energy must at least reach of its own accord , or release
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: nemo on August 09, 2013, 10:26:33 AM
I believe that Awareness can be measured in the capacity to be aware of something, A sort of over arching awareness that grants sub divisions of awareness if you want to. Me for example, I can be completely unaware of something and yet be able to talk about it blindly, and somehow get exactly what I need to hear. For example I had a recent situation that I posted on the other forum, and I rambled and discussed feelings. Knot showed up and completely gave me the answers or knowledge or awareness I needed. And it brought me profound clarity. I am not even able to know what it is I am asking until and answer arises.  I am almost able to compare levels of awareness if not the content of what I need but the intensity and am able to use that to see areas that I am lacking in.

Ahh thanks, yes the questions may not be that direct in nature, much like a river, the next thing to be brought into knowing, is the space empty, needing/requesting to be filled.

runningstream, that reminds of the story DJ said about some individuals are like gourds that have holes and they will always need someone to keep filling them.

So many insights!

Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 09, 2013, 06:17:16 PM
Ahh thanks, yes the questions may not be that direct in nature, much like a river, the next thing to be brought into knowing, is the space empty, needing/requesting to be filled.

runningstream, that reminds of the story DJ said about some individuals are like gourds that have holes and they will always need someone to keep filling them.

So many insights!



Yep cracked gourds!
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 09, 2013, 07:15:23 PM
I have no clue how could be relevant, but I thought I would share. So this man comes on chat at work today, he cant log into his account. I discover, he had no account to begin with. Once he became aware of his error he began saying. "God I am so ignorant!" LOL I told him it was a common mistake to think one has an account. Then he said "Can someone please make me smart?" I tried more to explain, its a common mistake, it happens. Then I asked if there was anything else I could do, he said, he was going back to college.

That chat made my day.  :)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 09, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
I believe that Awareness can be measured in the capacity to be aware of something, A sort of over arching awareness that grants sub divisions of awareness if you want to. Me for example, I can be completely unaware of something and yet be able to talk about it blindly, and somehow get exactly what I need to hear. For example I had a recent situation that I posted on the other forum, and I rambled and discussed feelings. Knot showed up and completely gave me the answers or knowledge or awareness I needed. And it brought me profound clarity. I am not even able to know what it is I am asking until and answer arises.  I am almost able to compare levels of awareness if not the content of what I need but the intensity and am able to use that to see areas that I am lacking in.

Hey cherryarc glad I helped. Sometimes it helps because others can see things from a different angle and bring some issues into light. That's all I did.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 11, 2013, 07:30:55 PM
Nikos I am more interested in others weighing in, than my answer.

Fyi, this is how things work for me, I ask questions and the answers come to me. So knowledge, energetically speaking comes from the questions that are asked, and it need not be another human that answers it.

DJ Tales of Power:

"The moths are the heralds, or, better yet, the guardians of eternity," don Juan said after the sound had stopped. "For some reason, or for no reason at all, they are the depositories of the gold dust of eternity."
The metaphor was foreign to me. I asked him to explain it.
"The moths carry a dust on their wings," he said. "A dark gold dust. That dust is the dust of knowledge."
His explanation had made the metaphor even more obscure. I vacillated [* vacillate- be undecided about something; waver between conflicting positions or courses] for a moment, trying to find the best way of wording my question. But he began to talk again.
"Knowledge is a most peculiar affair," he said, "especially for a warrior. Knowledge for a warrior is something that comes at once, engulfs him, and passes on."
"What does knowledge have to do with the dust on the wings of moths?" I asked after a long pause.
"Knowledge comes floating like specks of gold dust; the same dust that covers the wings of moths. So, for a warrior, knowledge is like taking a shower, or being rained on by specks of dark gold dust."




I once read enlightenment is in the question, not the answer.

That made me think.  :)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: runningstream on August 11, 2013, 07:39:42 PM
Already dead , born again ?
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on August 11, 2013, 08:13:29 PM
Already dead , born again ?


I think there is a lot of truth in being born again.

Die to self, born to life.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on October 09, 2014, 04:21:54 AM
I would not go so far as to say everything we have been taught - every influence - from other humans, is the foreign installation. Certainly it is a question as to what a human would look like without any human influence, but I don't think we would like the result, because a huge part of us is gregarious. Taking that out would be taking out a huge chunk of our natural essence.

Distinguishing which influence is installed to our detriment by a predator on the human species, and which is a healthy influence instilled into us by our human relationships, is what spiritual development is all about. There is no easy answer - it has to be seen from the viewpoint of learned growth through insight. Once we have grasped that so much of existence is about optics, then we can pick which optic leads to our preferred goal.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 16, 2015, 06:26:19 PM
"A warrior on the true path does not need to prove the other is wrong."

I am not going to debate statements I made from a two year old post.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Michael on June 16, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
 :P But EK, No One went to so much trouble....
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 17, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
:P But EK, No One went to so much trouble....

Perhaps. but It will go no where. I do not see this as a debate forum though sure it has happened in here. I think it would be a waste of energy to defend my statements, esp ones I made two years ago. Just not in the mood for it, and I think my words can just stand on their own. All are free to agree or disagree with them. But I am not going to take this thing two more threads debating the validity of what I said. That would be exhausting.  :o
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 17, 2015, 04:14:59 PM
reminds me of a mistake I made years ago with a girl; I used to believe that I am a reincarnate of beings from the past and one of them was Bruce Lee, so I told this girl "I AM Bruce Lee". She Said : "really?" and I said "Yes really". What a mistake it was, to this day I don't know what are the consequences for it. I even tried to track her to tell her that I was wrong but it didn't help.

No nothing was a mistake here. You are free to disagree and I will take what you said into consideration. No big deal. :)
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 17, 2015, 04:29:08 PM
warriors strive for the truth - they are not dealing with ideas - truth exists as a conscious force of its own.

Oh I deal with ideas. I get an idea about something, then I can make it manifest into something concrete. Like today, I had the idea to write about beliefs in here, and did. Nothing wrong with ideas. They can be the start of something.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 17, 2015, 04:50:31 PM
well then I bet you want to eat the cake and leave it whole too - how's that for an idea?

Wanting to have a cake and eat it to would be a waste of energy. I would have a slice and share the rest with others.
Title: Re: The Foreign Installation
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 18, 2015, 12:03:05 AM
;D ::) ;)
;D ::) ;)

You should not be worried i am just fine.