Restless Soma

Death (the tumbling force, public) => The Cave => Topic started by: Nick on March 09, 2014, 02:43:29 AM

Title: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Nick on March 09, 2014, 02:43:29 AM: Hello.

I was thinking lately about freedom in 'wide' terms.

Don Juan have said that there should be no niceties with the Eagle... A tough freedom ?

I often use one of Castaneda's guiding note? ...

"To pass like an arrow through the Eagle to be free."

I wonder... about the Eagle and freedom...
_________

One idea of mine I honor is that to be free of the Eagle 'equalizes' grandly with being free of the foreign installation, a term I don't use and like... but I think it's something of the bone, an achievement like this... One idea anyway.

In the middle of all my thoughts I think there's no 'total freedom'. Total freedom , yes, and then? Travel.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 09, 2014, 04:42:21 PM: Generally I see and use the word freedom as a rallying or questing term. In itself, it's ridiculous to ever believe we can be free - no matter where we are, we have obligations, responsibilities, conditions and furthermore, we always exist due to a vast array of other beings inputing into us. How we balance that awareness of our ultimate dependence and it's consequent obligations, with the quest of freedom in an symbolic way, is about where we stand on the endless ladder.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: nemo on March 10, 2014, 09:01:34 AM: Quote from: Michael on March 09, 2014, 04:42:21 PM
Generally I see and use the word freedom as a rallying or questing term. In itself, it's ridiculous to ever believe we can be free - no matter where we are, we have obligations, responsibilities, conditions and furthermore, we always exist due to a vast array of other beings inputing into us. How we balance that awareness of our ultimate dependence and it's consequent obligations, with the quest of freedom in an symbolic way, is about where we stand on the endless ladder.

To my seeing "Total Freedom" exists. What you are offering here Michael is rational tonal conjecture. Remember that the tonal is the social being, adhering to the social order and beliefs of that group, in a linear furrow of time, however varied.

Quote
DJ The Fire from Within:

I asked him about the difference between the earth’s boost and the tumbler’s boost. He explained that the earth’s boost is the force of alignment of only the amber emanations, it is a boost that heightens awareness to unthinkable degrees. To the new seers it is a blast of unlimited consciousness, which they call total freedom.

(nemo) We all have an understanding of what the "self" is. Some of that is learned, handed down, some of it is formulated through experience. When an awareness starts to gather energetic boosts, a plateau of understanding is reached and things can be seen that are not normally seen. Limited consciousness can not "see" unlimited consciousness.

In the quote from DJ he mentions alignment "The force of alignment of only the amber emanations."

There are eagles emanations and then there are choice alignments within those emanations. We only have the ability to make choices that we are a match with, and to move through emanations that are not subject to the social strata exist, as a choice available to those that probe the amber emanations.

Michael said: "we always exist due to a vast array of other beings inputing into us." This is one way to look at experience within this realm. I would be interested in hearing what your take on what the totality of the self is then if you feel this "always" and "we" in this statement is absolute?
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: nemo on March 10, 2014, 09:16:37 AM: Quote from: Nick on March 09, 2014, 02:43:29 AM
Hello.

I was thinking lately about freedom in 'wide' terms.

Don Juan have said that there should be no niceties with the Eagle... A tough freedom ?

I often use one of Castaneda's guiding note? ...

"To pass like an arrow through the Eagle to be free."

I wonder... about the Eagle and freedom...
_________

One idea of mine I honor is that to be free of the Eagle 'equalizes' grandly with being free of the foreign installation, a term I don't use and like... but I think it's something of the bone, an achievement like this... One idea anyway.

In the middle of all my thoughts I think there's no 'total freedom'. Total freedom , yes, and then? Travel.

In Michaels answer to you I suppose it could be argued that you can intend something and your will if it is active, will put breadcrumbs for you to follow until it is realized, even if it does not exist as a conceptualized thing to the mind. For me I started looking thoroughly at what is effecting and affecting me and my choices, what those choices were and any self or socially imposed limitations to those choices. This could be described as an incremental movement of the assemblage point.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 11, 2014, 06:57:03 AM: Nemo, yes and no. It's not something I can easily explain. I am not just referring to our social, or tonal world, when I say we have obligations.
Nonetheless, there is a point at which those obligations dissolve - because those obligations are towards beings who have been guiding us to that point. But it is not so simple. Perhaps the greatest difficulty, is our understanding that the path of knowledge is never what we think.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: nemo on March 12, 2014, 08:20:32 AM: I suppose there are some things that are difficult to explain, and then there are good explanations that fall short in bringing light/understanding to a recipient. For me yes the path of knowledge has had it's unexpected bumps and turns, but after a while you realize that you must strive to get the best out of all things presented. I can see that you do this, so that's make it a pleasure to talk with you though I do not always see, from the same perspective as you.

We must be careful to not say the world is definitely like this or like that, or any position of the assemblage point does not exist. To my seeing all possibilities exist, it is just that energetic probes "like us" may not fire up those particular emanations.

"For example only" , picture this planet in one moment in time. I exist in area of land claimed by the Corporation of Canada, and you are in the area claimed by the corporation of Australia. To get from one to the other we must produce documentation to be approved to move from one place or the other. So we are expected to comply to these demands, and most do. "not free in the material world"

If there are emanations that exist where those requirements are not needed, yet those areas of land still exist in pretty much the same way they do now, with the same social strata and technical achievements, in the same moment in time, what is stopping probes from experiencing that reality, and how would one get to those emanations?

With the same example with me being in canada i could say in my bubble of perception Kangaroos do not exist living in the wild and you could say the same thing about beavers in your neck of the woods. So in a functional way my local world has not kangaroo's, and yours have no beavers. So in our unique bubble of perceptions the social strata has made adjustments to those animals uniquely, domiciled to one area.

In terms of awareness then flyers are an esoteric knowledge, and if what the toltecs said about them are to be taken as truth, then they exist more universally on the planet in this one moment in time than beavers and kangaroos. Bear with me lol. It would be safe to say then if someone is aware of flyers and moves away from their influence, has there assemblage point moved to a unique bubble of perception etherically that does not have them as part of their local experience.

This is why when we discuss spiritual truths and achievements the context is of extreme importance. I can say that flyers and guides teachers and kangaroos do not exist in my bubble of perception, what that means to someone reading what I say is a reflection of where they are at energetically. An argument could be made that kangaroos exist in my macro bubble of perception, yet functionally I could argue that they do not exist.

So when Nick says:

Quote
One idea of mine I honor is that to be free of the Eagle 'equalizes' grandly with being free of the foreign installation, a term I don't use and like... but I think it's something of the bone, an achievement like this... One idea anyway.

In the middle of all my thoughts I think there's no 'total freedom'. Total freedom , yes, and then? Travel.

This aligns with my seeing!
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Nick on March 12, 2014, 01:59:31 PM: {nice posts nemo}

The idea i now have is that 'total freedom' is independent from seeing!

And of course there is no total freedom. haaaa ...... ()

n
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 13, 2014, 06:42:12 AM: Nemo, you remind me of a man I had dinner with nearly 40 years ago. He was a friend of John Cage, the musician. He had invited John to dinner one night with some other friends, who talked about music all night. John said nothing. Towards the end of the evening, he asked John to speak about his music.

John replied, "You have been playing it all night."
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 14, 2014, 09:06:32 AM: sing some more about the beings who led us to a point ?
and then beyond :)
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'. Pacing the Cage
Post by: nemo on March 14, 2014, 09:24:43 AM: Hey runningstream we are here at the same time "grin" I was looking for a song that came to mind when I read Michaels post.

Nick, To quantify what I have been saying, the is and the is not of things, depends who you are, and more importantly who you are not when viewed singularly.

Michael, man i would have loved to have been there. I posted some Bruce Cockburn below, which came to mind when I read your words. My wife, daughter and I just went to see him, which we do pretty much every year. The first day I met my wife, we went for a walk, during the walk, I mumbled some words from one of his songs, and she finished them off as we walked by a fountain late at night. We have been together ever since.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mN2uMVYwmqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (http://<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mN2uMVYwmqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>)
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 14, 2014, 09:58:51 AM: Hi Nemo .

think i remember seeing you when i came in ...........
then went across some parallel lines i drew on the lino ,
and then forgot :)
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 15, 2014, 06:39:49 AM: I think that's the first time I've seen Bruce Cockburn. I might tell you his capo is on a most unusual fret - I spent some years on that fret myself. I was later told that chord he is playing around mostly, is called the Devil's Chord. I made up a great song on that chord long long ago (called The Birthplace of a Saint). I still like the resonances a guitar makes with the capo there, but I very rarely see musos use it.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Nick on March 15, 2014, 06:09:39 PM: Quote from: nemo on March 12, 2014, 08:20:32 AM

So when Nick says:

Quote
One idea of mine I honor is that to be free of the Eagle 'equalizes' grandly with being free of the foreign installation, a term I don't use and like... but I think it's something of the bone, an achievement like this... One idea anyway.

In the middle of all my thoughts I think there's no 'total freedom'. Total freedom , yes, and then? Travel.

This aligns with my seeing!

nemo,yes, good luck in your journey.

Leaving,.. again.

~But I won't return..
..

Running ,nice to have met you.

adios, ciao , :) ......... (:
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 16, 2014, 06:42:14 AM: Good bye Nick

the lines of your post have a wonderful symetry appearing

i am glad to see :)

wishing you the best of luck
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 18, 2014, 05:18:56 AM: Curiously, I have spoken of the Devil's chord rarely, but so far twice on RS, from videos I've seen linked here. I wonder what that means. And if I'm not mistaken, they were both on Nik's threads (but I could be wrong there).
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: nemo on March 20, 2014, 04:23:14 PM: Cockburn would be interested if he did not know, it may be some strange downunder thingy, I will tell him if I get a chance. He is a pocket Christian so he would be displeased at the message. The song though is a bit cagey though so maybe it was on porpoise.

but just maybe........ Nick= a colloquialism for the devil
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 21, 2014, 02:57:02 AM: the archetypes still exist
in somewhat at least
their original form
even down to the names
woven into the fabric of existence
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 21, 2014, 04:56:26 AM: Quote from: runningstream on March 21, 2014, 02:57:02 AM
the archetypes still exist
in somewhat at least
their original form
even down to the names
woven into the fabric of existence

Yes, I agree. But are those your words running?
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 21, 2014, 05:53:31 AM: it is the realisation unfolding
and the alignment to those realisations
as its unfolding
so in
that light
yes and no
its written in the water
as your texts
and my own alignment
actually
its a completely engulfing realisation
of a tiered existence
playing out
if you mean have i borrowed those words
then of course
if you mean their structure being familiar
possibly i cant say
if you mean something else speaking through me ?
then it is the archetype
describing itself possibly
and that realisation
is based on reality
the reality that can be aligned with directly
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: runningstream on March 21, 2014, 06:11:19 AM: now my question is
about past lives
relaying
and the "compression of time "
yet not in the ordinary sense
you would immediately think of
as awareness
progressing
"all at once"
scars and battles
entering awareness yet
replaying throughout
"time"
sequentially
entering one another
in infinte timing
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 23, 2014, 07:41:50 AM: Nick: "One idea of mine I honor is that to be free of the Eagle 'equalizes' grandly with being free of the foreign installation"

M: I can't agree with this, from my experience. To free ourselves from the FI is only a step along the way. But then, in terms of direction, it does equalise. Just that the journey is always much more profound than we can imagine. There are always new lessons and revelations, new acquiring of 'knowledge' through tunnels of hard work.

Nemo: "I would be interested in hearing what your take on what the totality of the self is then if you feel this "always" and "we" in this statement is absolute?"

M: "there is a point at which those obligations dissolve"

Nemo: "We must be careful to not say the world is definitely like this or like that"

M: Alas, my time for observing that truth has passed. I have realised in the past I have erred in being over spiritually-correct. That posture is only for adepts to discuss over a cup of Oolong. It is irresponsible to observe it when directing some wayward traveller to the nearest shelter. In such a case, we have to have the courage to call a decisive choice, knowing full well it may be wrong. Only recently one such choice of mine proved disastrously wrong, but there you go - we are called to act, and act we must. To dither is a worse error than to act wrongly, because how can we possibly know what is wrong or right?

Nemo: "It would be safe to say then if someone is aware of flyers and moves away from their influence, has there assemblage point moved to a unique bubble of perception etherically that does not have them as part of their local experience."

M: I always come back to this point with you Nemo - the phrase 'moves away' is so easily said, but not so easily accomplished. My point is that the art is not so much the limitations of our own vision, although that is highly significant, but the limitations of our being. To break the limitations of being, we require very clever skills and maps, and very hard work. Once that process is passed a crucial threshold, we may look back upon those skills and work as fictions, but we never disrespect them, and never discount them.

The critical issue between us is exactly what divided Tibetan Buddhism centuries ago. If I leave out the actual historical terms, it boils down to those who believed one achieved realisation after a struggle and path of development. And those who believed it can be achieved instantaneously. The former agree with the latter in the final moment, but argue the 'steps' are essential, until that moment when one realise they begin and end in illusion. The latter argue, why waste time on the steps - why not let go instantly! It appeared to work well for both traditions, although in the Great Debate in ancient Tibet, the steps method prevailed, thus Tibetan Buddhism followed that path in the main.

I prefer the steps approach for many reasons, but I acknowledge in the end, total flight is all that counts. One reason is because the steps train us for what is called 'the best way to live'. Realisation is now, but life is in time. For me, knowledge is both realisation and living. I even apply this to my music - one of my greatest pleasures is not 'playing' but 'practising'. I love the long dirt road.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Skyflower on March 23, 2014, 01:32:56 PM: Quote from: Michael on March 23, 2014, 07:41:50 AM
M: Alas, my time for observing that truth has passed. I have realised in the past I have erred in being over spiritually-correct. That posture is only for adepts to discuss over a cup of Oolong. It is irresponsible to observe it when directing some wayward traveller to the nearest shelter. In such a case, we have to have the courage to call a decisive choice, knowing full well it may be wrong. Only recently one such choice of mine proved disastrously wrong, but there you go - we are called to act, and act we must. To dither is a worse error than to act wrongly, because how can we possibly know what is wrong or right?

I like this. :)
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: nemo on March 23, 2014, 03:51:24 PM: Thank you for this thoughtful reply.

What I have been saying though Michael is not to my seeing a match to your comments on many points.

The energy within your reply here is honest and heartfelt, but there is a sense of tiredness and a wish for finality in talking with me, so I will not press my points further.

Happy sailing

Agápe nemo

(http://images.yuku.com/image/png/d822683633b0fedc5d07ca0f5cf086495e5d4318_r.png?r=3)
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on March 25, 2014, 05:12:18 AM: D flat minor. But actually it is technically a bit more complex than that. If you are a musician, look it up on the web, and you will find the notes for the chord, which essentially uses a flattened fifth/augmented 4th. There is a history around this.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on April 16, 2014, 05:35:16 PM: Quote from: dead log on April 16, 2014, 06:46:20 AM
So Michael, What is so intresting about a chord in music?

Good point. I have often asked that myself. My view is that the exact Devil's Chord, is in fact a specific interval, which was so jarring that the church deemed it should not be used. When you look at D flat minor, as a chord, it is the same as A minor, perhaps the second most used chord on the guitar. But what you should know is the guitar, like all instruments, is set up around a specific chord: in guitar's case, E minor. Not only is that embedded in the basic structure of string tuning, but it embeds as a vibration over many years into the wood of the guitar. When you play any other chord, it inevitably sits against that background harmonic vibration. D flat minor is a most unusual contrast to E minor, even when a capo is used. To me, this adds a unique feel to this chord, which is not one it feels comfortable to play with for a long time, albeit very attractive in a strange way. I haven't examined it explicitly, but I'd bet the chord employs the Devils interval against the guitars subconscious E minor vibrations.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on July 29, 2014, 05:41:56 AM: Quote from: dead log on July 28, 2014, 03:16:56 PM
When enlarged, right next to the face of the right girl..

Yep - something that just doesn't fit anywhere.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on August 01, 2014, 05:46:42 AM: But did you eat them one at a time, and look at each chip with care to notice it's indivaduality?
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on August 02, 2014, 08:21:05 AM: You are obviously not a spiritual chip eater.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on August 02, 2014, 07:23:40 PM: Absolutely, even though I know they are not a health issue. But I do notice their individuality. As I do rubbish bins.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on August 16, 2014, 04:52:47 AM: OK, Mr Dog, I should offer you a technique about what I'm referring to.

This is a technique I used myself.

Purchase a bag of potato crisps - not the hot ones, but the cold pre-packed chips you buy in supermarkets or corner shops.
Then proceed to eat the whole pack one chip at a time, no matter how small, looking closely at each crisp before transfer into mouth.

The important part of this technique is to eat your way through the whole bag - all the tiny bits at the end.

That will give you the idea of what I talking about.
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on August 17, 2014, 04:45:24 AM: A long time ago eh? My my, you are an advanced tulku.

BTW, take a little advice - just leave the Aghori alone for awhile. You are not quite ready for that. Try the chips again...
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: zig on September 25, 2015, 05:36:13 PM: Without knowing much about music, Re sounds a lot more evil than La.

I think also that to another musical instrument than a guitar , without having knowledge always - La may not be the deadliest.

In the end, maybe La is the closest to a 'total freedom' for a mind like mine... (over-simple thought of course).

thanks for having me back.

.~
...
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: Michael on September 27, 2015, 06:03:53 AM: La is orange-red of sunset, with translucency - very introverted and melancholic, but not incapacitating. Still expressive, yet intelligent and wise with a sense of unexpected completion for those who avoid the cliche predictability which always rings hollow - let's say, a secret way out...
Title: Re: Thinking about the Eagle and 'Total freedom'.
Post by: zig on September 27, 2015, 08:44:52 AM: I see we 're on the same node considering 'total freedom' a way out. :) ~ :)