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Author Topic: Tolle’s “A New Earth”  (Read 43126 times)

Offline Michael

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Re: Time
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2008, 10:17:49 AM »
there are two ways of being unhappy. Not getting what you want is one. Getting what you want is the other.

Kris, when was the last time you cried?

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Time
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2008, 10:42:43 AM »
~

Kris, when was the last time you cried?

Last night while watching a movie.

z


"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Michael

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2008, 11:07:57 AM »
and...

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 02:02:12 PM »
~

We were watching an episode of CSI:  Miami.  At the end of the show there was a military funeral.  I’ve attended several, so I became identified with those that I perceived as ‘sad’ in the show.

What occurred was an instantaneous ‘thought’ of when I, myself, was in that situation, (In the 'Time' of 'Past' of course,) then relayed that to my body.  This is a trigger that I’ve had since the first funeral I attended. 

It’s an interesting ‘situation’ to view:  the thoughts take over, digging up the past and placing them almost ‘into’ the show.  There were two events occurring:  My intellectual, my ‘own’ version of what occurred when I was in that situation, over-layed on the actual show that was being presented.   

I was unconscious as Tolle would say, completely identified with my Mental Form. 

Took me a bit to find the below listed comments, but worth it:

_____________________________

"How does a man of knowledge exercise controlled folly when it comes to the death of a person he loves?" I asked.

Don Juan was taken aback by my question and looked at me quizzically.

"Take your grandson Lucio," I said. "Would your acts be controlled folly at the time of his death?" 

"Take my son Eulalio, that's a better example," don Juan replied calmly. "He was crushed by rocks while working in the construction of the Pan-American Highway.  My acts toward him at the moment of his death were controlled folly. When I came down to the blasting area he was almost dead, but his body was so strong that it kept on moving and kicking. I stood in front of him and told the boys in the road crew not to move him any more; they obeyed me and stood there surrounding my son, looking at his mangled body. I stood there too, but I did not look. I shifted my eyes so I would see his personal life disintegrating, expanding uncontrollably beyond its limits, like a fog of crystals, because that is the way life and death mix and expand. That is what I did at the time of my son's death. That's all one could ever do, and that is controlled folly. Had I looked at him I would have watched him becoming immobile and I would have felt a cry inside of me, because never again would I look at his fine figure pacing the earth. I saw his death instead, and there was no sadness, no feeling. His death was equal to everything else."

Don Juan was quiet for a moment. He seemed to be sad, but then he smiled and tapped my head.

"So you may say that when it comes to the death of a person I love, my controlled folly is to shift my eyes."  I thought about the people I love myself and a terribly oppressive wave of self-pity enveloped me.

"Lucky you, don Juan," I said. "You can shift your eyes, while I can only look."  He found my statement funny and laughed.

"Lucky, bull!" he said. "It's hard work."

We both laughed. After a long silence I began probing him again, perhaps only to dispel my own sadness.  "If I have understood you correctly then, don Juan," I said, "the only acts in the life of a man of knowledge which are not controlled folly are those he performs with his ally or with Mescalito. Isn't that right?"  "That's right," he said, chuckling. "My ally and Mescalito are not on a par with us human beings. My controlled folly applies only to myself and to the acts I perform while in the company of my fellow men."  "However, it is a logical possibility," I said, "to think that a man of knowledge may also regard his acts with his ally or with Mescalito as controlled folly, true?"  He stared at me for a moment.

"You're thinking again," he said. "A man of knowledge doesn't think, therefore he cannot encounter that possibility. Take me, for example. I say that my controlled folly applies to the acts I performed while in the company  of my fellow men; I say that because I can see my fellow men. However, I cannot see through my ally and that makes it incomprehensible to me, so how could I control my folly if I don't see through it? With my ally or with Mescalito I am only a man who knows how to see and finds that he's baffled by what he sees; a man who knows that he'll never understand all that is around him.  "Take your case, for instance. It doesn't matter to me whether you become a man of knowledge or not; however, it matters to Mescalito. Obviously it matters to him or he wouldn't take so many steps to show his concern about you. I can notice his concern and I act toward it, yet his reasons are incomprehensible to me."

________________________________

"Had I looked at him I would have watched him becoming immobile and I would have felt a cry inside of me, because never again would I look at his fine figure pacing the earth. I saw his death instead, and there was no sadness, no feeling. His death was equal to everything else."

I've *seen* in this manner, but most of the times I'm indulging.

Zam

P.S.  These comments above are in the midst of a great discussion concerning controlled folly, but, that's another discussion for another time  ;)






"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Michael

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2008, 08:02:06 AM »
We were watching an episode of CSI:  Miami.  At the end of the show there was a military funeral.  I’ve attended several, so I became identified with those that I perceived as ‘sad’ in the show.

What occurred was an instantaneous ‘thought’ of when I, myself, was in that situation, (In the 'Time' of 'Past' of course,) then relayed that to my body.  This is a trigger that I’ve had since the first funeral I attended. 

It’s an interesting ‘situation’ to view:  the thoughts take over, digging up the past and placing them almost ‘into’ the show.  There were two events occurring:  My intellectual, my ‘own’ version of what occurred when I was in that situation, over-layed on the actual show that was being presented.   

I was unconscious as Tolle would say, completely identified with my Mental Form. 

That's a good post Kris. It is what I had previously asked you to do - to weave your own experience in with a quote to lend weight and insight. You came from your own emotional event, reflected on it from the viewpoint of Tolle's knowledge, then bridged across to Juanito's knowledge, to offer us a composite meal.

However, I could not help noticing that in describing the event - the last time you cried - that you didn't use a single emotive word, except for the very minimal, 'sad', which you even put in single quotes as if to say it is an intellectual reference, not an emotional one.

Just an immediate observation on first reading.

Do you feel awkward writing in emotional language?

It has been my observation that those who have difficulty writing emotively, often speak with emotive moods behind their words. I mean moods that they are not in harmony with - moods which sweep like winds behind their voice.

Does you partner sense these waves of moods?

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2008, 02:04:33 PM »
~


However, I could not help noticing that in describing the event - the last time you cried - that you didn't use a single emotive word, except for the very minimal, 'sad', which you even put in single quotes as if to say it is an intellectual reference, not an emotional one.

Just an immediate observation on first reading.


A very good observation, I might add.  This was done with purpose, yet another learning I picked up from Tolle’s work.  Hmmm...let me re-phrase that.  I've learned what Tolle mentions from numerous others; his work reached down thru me and touched my consciousness.   

As I re-lived my reaction, I noticed it was a very intellectual crying.  This reaction was not to my emotional body.  The example I’ll use from Tolle is as follows:  “If someone steals your friends car, you won’t be as emotional as if someone steals Your car.”  Paraphrased of course.  It was a thought from the episode on TV that triggered some past emotions, and I became aware of this pretty quickly as it was occurring. 
   

Do you feel awkward writing in emotional language?


Unsure if awkward is a term I’d use.  At times passion rises up from the ashes, other instances not so much in How I write.  I’ll refrain from labeling either ‘good or bad,’ just that I’m becoming more and more Aware of each experience and how it's described with words.


It has been my observation that those who have difficulty writing emotively, often speak with emotive moods behind their words. I mean moods that they are not in harmony with - moods which sweep like winds behind their voice.


Yes, I do have moods that I’m not in harmony with, and yes, they do sweep like winds behind my voice.  As the Awareness rises, as the view becomes a bit clearer, perception of this has been most revealing indeed!  Imho, this is The Work. 


Does you partner sense these waves of moods?


<<<Puts on his best Juanito face and voice, calling out>>>  “Hey, hey, Partner!  Do you sense these waves of moods?”  ;)

I’d also like to call forth another witness:  Raven.  “Hey, hey, Raven!  Do you sense these waves of moods?” 

Although Ang has dealt with me on a face to face level, Jenn and I have had some pretty intense discussions and I know she *see’s* me pretty well.

So?

z


"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Sky

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2008, 06:54:30 PM »
Quote
Yes, I do have moods that I’m not in harmony with, and yes, they do sweep like winds behind my voice.  As the Awareness rises, as the view becomes a bit clearer, perception of this has been most revealing indeed!  Imho, this is The Work.

Quote
I’d also like to call forth another witness:  Raven.  “Hey, hey, Raven!  Do you sense these waves of moods?” 

Yep..  ;)


Offline Sky

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2008, 06:56:39 PM »
I also see you doing 'the work' ;)

Offline Michael

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 01:07:46 AM »
nifty...

This was done with purpose, yet another learning I picked up from Tolle’s work.

are you saying that Tolle recommends you avoid using emotive words?

I suspect you are saying that realising your moods were 'from the ego' as he puts it, you felt they were better presented in an intellectual way. I can't see that that is an appropriate response to utilising his insight, but at least you were aware of the fact there was a specific type of emotion involved.

Anyway, the problem with these emotive winds, is not that they happen - one would be a sad case were there none. Rather the problem is when they blow from our shadow - from the area to which we push things we don't want to acknowledge openly.

And we don't want to do that because we are desperate to display ourselves to others in a special light - we don't want others to see our warts.

We do want others to believe we are someone they will like and admire.

And the more we desire that, the more we fear the opposite,
and the more we fear something, the more we attract it.
We become what we despise.

Much better to write poetry.
Much better to soften the belly.

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 10:09:34 AM »
~

What is a productive way to deal with these emotive winds?

z

"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 12:20:32 PM »
“Hey, hey, Partner!  Do you sense these waves of moods?”  ;)

Yes, I do.  As you do in me.

~

What is a productive way to deal with these emotive winds?

z



If I may offer ....

Express them in writing as sincerely as you express them in person.

A
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 12:29:14 PM by Luna »
"There is a point at which everything becomes simple and there is no longer any question of choice, because all you have staked will be lost if you look back. Life's point of no return."
- Dag Hammarskjold

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 01:45:13 PM »
~

Yes, I do.  As you do in me.

If I may offer ....

Express them in writing as sincerely as you express them in person.

A

Brilliant!

Now why didn't I think of that??

We've discussed this before...do you recall?

What an excellent day!  How is yours progressing? 

If I were any better I'd be twiins!

Chuckles...

z

"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 02:37:59 PM »
~

Brilliant!

Now why didn't I think of that??

We've discussed this before...do you recall?

What an excellent day!  How is yours progressing? 

If I were any better I'd be twiins!

Chuckles...

z


Yes, we have discussed before.

Going well!  hard to sneak in a comment here and there ... I'm in an office setting ;)  Will check in later.

Love you  :-*
A
"There is a point at which everything becomes simple and there is no longer any question of choice, because all you have staked will be lost if you look back. Life's point of no return."
- Dag Hammarskjold

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 06:00:51 PM »
~


And we don't want to do that because we are desperate to display ourselves to others in a special light - we don't want others to see our warts.

We do want others to believe we are someone they will like and admire.

And the more we desire that, the more we fear the opposite,
and the more we fear something, the more we attract it.
We become what we despise.

Much better to write poetry.
Much better to soften the belly.


The Upanishads, the ancient scriptures of India, point to the same truth with these words:

What cannot be seen with the eye, but that whereby the eye can see: know that alone to be Brahman the Spirit and not what people here adore. What cannot be heard with the ear but that whereby the ear can hear: know that alone to be Brahman the Spirit and not what people here adore .... What cannot be thought with the mind but that whereby the mind can think: know that alone to be Brahman the Spirit and not what people here adore. 

God, the scripture is saying, is formless consciousness and the essence of who you are. Everything else is form, is “what people here adore.”

z

P.S.  This is another piece by Tolle.


"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Michael

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Re: Tolle’s “A New Earth”
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2008, 09:28:04 PM »
curious, I had a feeling Tolle might be into advaita.