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Author Topic: Path of Enlightenment  (Read 14207 times)

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2008, 03:15:45 PM »
Nope, haven't read a word by either one of them.  I have, though had a few convos with JC, in dreaming and visions.   Enlightening, as you may expect.    ;)

hey ... I have an interesting story...
 Yesterday a guy from the power company, John, came to my house to do an overall check of my AC/Heating system to determine why I was paying out the nose on my power bills.  Anyway ... he was a very nice older gentleman, very thorough.  He found the problem and stayed there until I could get the project manager (the HOA sued the builder and they're doing some repairs in our complex) to my house .... and they repaired it right there and then!  I was definitely feeling the "flow".  Then, as he left, he said, "So you Know the Lord."  I was a little stunned, until I remembered the table in our dining room with the sacred heart candle, homemade rosary, dead pet pics, candles, and dried up palm leaves, which I'm sure was what he was referring to.  I said, "Yes, I Know the Lord."

So ... "you Know the Lord" as well!  ;)

 :-*

"There is a point at which everything becomes simple and there is no longer any question of choice, because all you have staked will be lost if you look back. Life's point of no return."
- Dag Hammarskjold

Jaharkta

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2008, 07:02:57 PM »
This has always fired up my questioning nature ... has anyone here, anywhere, read any books by Jesus or Buddha?   Or are we to just "have faith", or "believe" that all of those disciples and monks were channeling these "great" beings?  Just something we might want to toss around. 

I do think it's possible to channel great beings ... but it is rare.
A Course In Miracles is allegedly channeling someone who almost comes out and says he is Jesus, but leaves a margin for the imagination. Something purportedly named "Raphael" (the Archangel) used to come through in automatic writing I did years and years ago, but I still think that was some liar -- or self-delusion. 

As for the New Testament, I read it for the first and last time in my late 20's/early 30's, with an occasional periodic return to Revelations since. I was astonished at how little Jesus was actually quoted in the NT. When you look at the editions who red-letter actual quotations by him, it gets driven home quickly.  Not to mention how few of his years are highlighted. It's a disappointing text that way, and I can only think that what actually happened, was taught, and was stated-as-precepts got lost in some political shuffle.

So, not only do I agree with your point, that one must rely on the 'word' of others/intermediaries, but observe that even the 'sanctioned' text has very little content.


hey ... I have an interesting story...
 Yesterday a guy from the power company, John, came to my house to do an overall check of my AC/Heating system to determine why I was paying out the nose on my power bills.  Anyway ... he was a very nice older gentleman, very thorough.  He found the problem and stayed there until I could get the project manager (the HOA sued the builder and they're doing some repairs in our complex) to my house .... and they repaired it right there and then!  I was definitely feeling the "flow".  Then, as he left, he said, "So you Know the Lord."  I was a little stunned, until I remembered the table in our dining room with the sacred heart candle, homemade rosary, dead pet pics, candles, and dried up palm leaves, which I'm sure was what he was referring to.  I said, "Yes, I Know the Lord."

So ... "you Know the Lord" as well!  ;)

 :-*

That's a great story, A!  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 08:37:36 PM by jaharkta »

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2008, 01:41:39 PM »
~


"Being critical of Buddhism isn’t easy.


Heh.

I was scanning through Jed's first book looking for something and found a bit more concerning thoughts on Buddha. 

I changed his work around a bit to fit the Toltec belief system, as over on my list there are just some die hard Toltecs. 

We'll see how well that goes over....

<<<chuckles>>>

~

>>> "...as I think a don Juan was about, also." <<<


Why? Why? Why?

Anyone familiar with the story of Buddha standing alongside the road?

Goes something like, "If you see Buddha standing alongside the road, kill him."

Anyone familiar with this?

Well, let's just change the name. "If you see don Juan or don Genero or Silvio Manuel or any other metaphorical or analogical name along side of the road, kill them."

Make sense?

"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Seek what they sought."

Basho

`Kill the Buddha,' which will now be `Kill don Juan,' is a sign that has been left by a previous traveler. It has a very specific application. It has meaning at one particular juncture that one comes to on the path, rather late in the journey. It means nothing before you reach this particular place. Then, the time comes when you're there and the next thing you're supposed to do isn't exactly clear to you. In fact, the wrong thing seems quite correct and is extremely tempting.

And then, as if from nowhere, this absurd little phrase about killing don Juan pops into your head and your heart swells with inexpressible gratitude, and you know what to do and danger of slipping back into a coma is averted.

What does it really mean though?

It means further. At a very exact point in the journey when it would be very easy to sit down and think you're done, it means `Get up!  You're not there yet. Don't be deceived. Don't be sentimental. Don't be complacent. Keep moving. You think you're there but you're not.  You're still seeing two where there's only one. That image you're kneeling in front of whoever it is, whatever it is-is just another projection of your own bullshit. Kill the fuckin' thing and keep going.' That's what it means.

"Carlos said...," "Don Juan did...,"

Kill them. Kill them right now in your mind. Why is anyone daydreaming about them anywho?? Take something they mention and go do it.

Zam

P.S. The bit about Buddha was borrowed from Jed McKenna in Spiritual Enlightenment - The Damdest Thing.

Seems to fit perfectly with don Juan as well.

~

Second adaption  ;)

I sometimes wonder if I would make a good Nagual, but I don't think so. Or maybe I'd be a great one, depends how you look at it.

My emblem would be a graphic depiction of don Juan's head lanced on a pike, complete with dripping blood and dangling viscera.

The motto beneath the emblem would be "DIE!" Students would line up outside my door after not-doings to come in and tell me their experiences and as soon as the first one opened his mouth I'd start shrieking at the top of my lungs, "You're not him! You're not the real guy! You're just the dream character!" "You're supposed to be dead! Why aren't you dead? Why are you coming to see me? You're the problem! Get out and come back when you're dead. That's the guy I want to talk to, not a stupid dream character. Now GETOUT!"

<<<chuckles>>>

z




"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2008, 02:59:31 PM »
~

Ah, more 'stuff' from good ole' Jed.  Always liked this part in regards to 'suffering.'

"But what about suffering? The Buddha said..."

"Stop."

If I allowed students to steer these dialogs with their questions, all of our time would be spent going in every imaginable direction but forward. Students, quite naturally, think that it's important to understand. They think that it's vital that their information be correct and precise. They think that this is like school where you have to understand one thing before you can understand the next thing. But all that is about knowing and this is unknowing. All this so-called knowledge is exactly what stands between the seeker and the sought. I can certainly understand their perspective in all this, but I am always amazed when I see other teachers of this stuff letting students drag them up hill and down dale with questions that don't advance the cause. Waking up isn't a theoretical subject one masters through study and comprehension, it's a journey one makes-a battle one fights.

Teachers want to be popular and appear wise, so they answer whatever questions anyone thinks to ask, as if they were teaching the next generation of teachers rather than helping people wake up.

And, having said that, I am also constrained to say that this journey-this battle-has yet to even begin for Andrew. His many years of meditation and spiritual education do nothing to alter the fact that he has yet to take the First Step on his own journey. The First Step is the main thing. That's what everything I teach is really about. Take the First Step and the rest will most assuredly follow. You can traipse about the stage playing a spiritual role and you can meditate and renounce and be selfless and earn merit and burn karma year after year, lifetime after lifetime, and still not take that First Step.

That really sums up the state of awakening in the West where spirituality is a recent cultural transplant with many intoxicating blossoms but no established root system. In her book Halfway Up the Mountain: The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, Mariana Caplan has this to say about the Sirens' song of enlightenment:

"The most common, widely-held fantasy about enlightenment is that it is freedom from suffering, the transcendence of pain and struggle, the land of milk and honey, a State of perpetual love, bliss, and peace. Enlightenment represents the collectively shared dream of an idealized and perfect world of pure beauty and joy. It is not only New Age fantasy; it is the secret wish of all people. It is our shared dream of salvation. But it is only a fantasy."

In short, like most spiritual seekers, Andrew never signed up for enlightenment at all, but for a heaven-on-earth fantasy called, in this case, Nirvana. The question is, once disabused of the fantasy; does the seeker's enthusiasm automatically transfer to the reality? In other words, if you ordered a hot fudge sundae with whipped cream and a cherry, would you be just as happy if the waiter gave you a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?

Probably not.

So now Andrew wanted to throw the Buddha at me, but I have no use for the Buddha, and, though he didn't realize it yet, neither did Andrew.

"Suffering is irrelevant," I told him. "Compassion is irrelevant. To begin with, neither one of us has the slightest idea what the Buddha said because he didn't write it down and get it notarized. And since he's not here to explain, we're on our own."

Andrew was wide-eyed at this heresy. I sensed that he was thinking about getting up and leaving.

"Hey, this is good news. What I'm saying is that you don't have to rely on the highly suspect teachings of someone who's been dead for thousands of years. You can rely on yourself. If Prince Siddhartha made it on his own, you can too, right? The Buddha was just some guy who got serious and figured it out for himself, so maybe that's his real teaching-that you can figure it out for yourself. Maybe the point isn't that he was some sort of deity or superman, but that he wasn't. That he was just a guy like you or me."

Andrew was rocking back and forth slightly, agitated.

"As to suffering," I continued, "forget it. It's a non-issue. Suffering just means you're having a bad dream. Happiness means you're having a good dream. Enlightenment means getting out of the dream altogether. Words like suffering and happiness and compassion are just bags of rocks. Eventually, you'll have to set them down if you want to keep going."

Spiritual Enlightenment - The Damdest Thing
Jed McKenna




"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2008, 11:48:52 AM »
In dreaming awhile back ... I think I posted it somewhere here, or maybe over on sister forum, not sure ... anyway I was on a boat, jumped off, started treading water.  I realized I was dreaming and knew I could breath under water, so down I went. I've been doing this quite frequently, and have also been taking the same action into "normal reality".  I'm realizing that line fading as well.  When Fear is removed from the equation ... there are no more "equations"  ... you "jump, or burn" ....  there are no demarcations.


Recipe For Failure

"This day before dawn I ascended a hill
and  look'd at the crowded heaven,
And I said to my spirit
When we become the elders of those orbs,
and the pleasure and knowledge of every thing in them,
shall we be fill'd and satisfied then?
And my spirit said
No, we but level that lift to pass and continue beyond."

-Walt Whitman –



Kamiel came prepared. He carries a bulging, well-worn, triple rubber-banded notebook full of thoughts, ideas, and questions accumulated during several years of reading spiritual books, attending spiritual gatherings, and participating in spiritual internet discussion groups.

"A lot of teachers," he informs me, "say that the necessary first step in awakening is dissatisfaction; a gnawing discontentment on the feeling level. Is that what you mean when you talk about intent?"

Most of Kamiel's reading in recent years has centered on the works of Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramesh Balsekar, Jean Klein and that whole crew. He seems philosophically inclined toward the peculiar brand of non-duality and neo-Advaita Vedanta that attracts a growing audience these days. Its allure seems based on its simple core truth; not-two.

While not-two is not exactly true, two is exactly not true, and therefore succinctly marks the endpoint of dualistic thought - you'd think. Where non-dual enthusiasts go astray is in trying to erect a philosophical structure atop this simple truth. Truth is always simple and never provides the basis for any philosophy, but Kamiel is determined to believe that his ramshackle non-dual philosophy is structurally sound. I've explained to him that you can't build a philosophy of  This on a foundation of Not-This, but he is quite attached to his improbable little edifice and not yet ready to decamp. Which is perfectly fine.

Waking up is a stop-and-go journey. It takes a lot of hard work to reach a plateau like non-duality and pausing to rest and acclimatize before moving on is part of the process. Non-duality may not be the final destination new arrivals might suppose, but getting there is an impressive and challenging feat and the views are rewarding in all directions. What's more, I like Kamiel and generally enjoy talking with him. He asks good questions that elicit interesting answers. I'm usually limited to speaking in monologues rather than dialogues, but it's the student who calls the tune and Kamiel makes a good job of it.

"Well," I respond after thinking about his question a bit, "I guess it's a matter of degree. Let's try out a new analogy. I'm making this up on the fly so bear with me. Here's the situation: You're sitting in your skyscraper office a hundred stories off the ground thinking about how successful you are and how your life is just grand. With me so far?  In terms of satisfaction, you're very satisfied. You have it all; fancy office, great views, the respect and admiration of those around you, everything you ever wanted. Okay?"

"Okay."

"So, you're like that - happy, content, well satisfied - for however long; months, years, decades. But then one day, for whatever reason, dissatisfaction begins to creep in. Something about your office starts to bug you. It starts with little things. You're dissatisfied with your curtains; they don't go with the credenza at all. `What was I thinking?' you wonder. `How could I have been so blind?' And now that you're looking more closely, it's obvious that the carpet is a fiasco and the artwork is just an embarrassment. One minute you're happy, the next minute you're very, very dissatisfied. Extremely dissatisfied. This office is simply not an accurate outward representation of your inner professional. You've outgrown it."

"It actually sounds like a pretty cool office."

"Yeah, well, that's what everyone else thinks; your friends, colleagues, your family. They think you've got it made and that you're nuts for wanting to mess with it. Of course, you're only dissatisfied when you're in the office. You pretty much forget about it when you're anywhere else. Right?"

"Right."

"And you're following the analogy, right? These things can be a bit wobbly the first time out. Your office represents your relationship to the larger questions of life and your dissatisfaction represents..."

"Got it."

"Good. So what's the answer? What do you do about this very dissatisfying office of yours?"

"Uh, I don't know," he shrugs. "Redecorate?"

"Yeah, that sounds right. But this time you're going to be very serious about it. You're going to bring in a top-notch decorator and strip the place down to the floorboards and start from scratch. You're not going to be a mere dabbler; you're going all the way with this. You're a serious professional and you deserve a serious office. See what I mean? See how what started as a gnawing little dissatisfaction has grown into a life-transforming event?"

"Okay," he says dutifully.

"So that's what you do. You go out and buy books and magazines on interior design. You talk to people and attend lectures and events. You hire the best decorator you can find; someone you resonate with deeply. You yourself are being transformed by this experience. You yourself are growing, developing, expanding. It's very challenging, but you're taking a no-nonsense approach. It's slow going, but little by little change is occurring. Your office is starting to look and feel like a genuine outer representation of your inner professional. It may take years to get it right, but nothing will stop you. This is too important. In fact, it has become one of the most important things in your life, right up there with home and family. See what I mean?"

"Yes," he says eagerly. "The master decorator represents the guru and the redecorating process represents the spiritual transformation we undergo when we truly begin to challenge our beliefs and seek higher knowledge. What started out as kind of a gnawing dissatisfaction has grown into the impetus for important change, and although it might seem like a bad thing at first, this is how the process of change works. This is how we develop, how we grow."

"Exactly," I say. "Nobody acts from contentment. We need problems to solve or else we vegetate. That great office was once something we strived to get, then it was achieved and enjoyed in contentment, but then discontent sets in to let us know that it's time to move on."

"So," says Kamiel, "that's what the teachers are talking about when they discuss the dissatisfaction needed to spur us on, right? It might seem bad or uncomfortable, but it's really a good thing?"

"Sounds right," I say.

"And that's the sort of determination and focus that's required in order to awaken from delusion? To become truth-realized?" He smiles, excited, like he's just now getting the big picture. "So that's what you mean by purity of intent!"

I smile back. "twig no. That's what I mean by recipe for failure."

His dismay is instantly apparent. I've cut him off in the first rush of a new grokking and now he's confused and hurt. I did this intentionally. I didn't allow myself to be drawn into this "A lot of teachers say..." conversation just wanting to make a point; I wanted counterpoint. That's what the dialogue has been up until now because I wanted to make a clear distinction. This is the critical distinction between seekers and finders. This is where the line is drawn; a line the existence of which "a lot of teachers" don't even suspect.

"That's the sort of pathetic, half-assed approach that is absolutely certain to keep you confined to your current state. That's the sort of approach that everyone takes and that's why they fail."

He visibly and audibly gulps. "Oh."

"The very people and institutions that are supposedly dedicated to waking us up are doing exactly the opposite. They are lulling us into a more comfortable sleep. That's what we really want and that's what they really provide." He doesn't seem pleased.

"Oh, God...well then... then what drives the process of true awakening?"

"Purity of intent, but what does that really mean? Okay, you're back in the office again, totally satisfied with everything. Life is great. Okay?"

"Yeah."

"Okay. So now dissatisfaction starts to creep in on you, but this time the dissatisfaction stems from the fact that you smell smoke."

"The building is on fire now?"

"Wake up and smell the coffin, Kamiel. The building has always been on fire,  you were just repressing that knowledge until now. But now you're aware of it and it's causing you some dissatisfaction. Quite a lot, in fact, and more with every passing moment. Now for the first time you realize that the flames are right outside the door and the temperature is rising. Acrid black smoke is pouring in. The door bursts into flames. There is no exit. Now you're very, very dissatisfied with your office. In fact, you're starting to hate your office quite profoundly. See how this dissatisfaction - this gnawing discontentment on the, uh, feeling level - is of a more immediate and compelling nature then the dissatisfaction brought on by the decor?"

He nods mutely.

"Sure. Now your dissatisfaction with your office is quite intense. Searing, really. In fact, your dissatisfaction is so intense that it feels like you're on fire, like you can't stand to be in your own skin, like anything would be better than more of this. Now you have no thought at all for career, home, or family. Due to a change in your personal circumstances they've all been reduced to complete irrelevance. Beliefs and concepts disappear and even death is suddenly small. You're very focused now. You're in the moment; very present. The flames are feet away. Your dissatisfaction with your office is well beyond anything even a master redecorator could handle for you, agree?"

He nods.

"And there's no return, is there? No going back. The fire is here. It's a fact. Do you see that?"

He nods again.

"And you're completely alone in all this. There's no rescue. Your office is engulfed in flames and there's no one here to save you. Not Jesus or Buddha or the Pope or your mama. This is your dissatisfaction. This is your problem. This is your agony. This is you about to burn to death, okay?"

"Okay."

"Okay. So what do you do?"

"Huh?"

"Your world is burning. The whole office is in flames. You're in a hope-less, no escape situation. The pain has started and will only get worse. I think we can safely say that your dissatisfaction is now quite pronounced. What do you do?"

"Christ, I don't know. Go out the window?"

"Really?"

"Hell, I don't know. What else?"

"Yeah, I guess so. You're in this inferno of an office while outside the window is blue sky, white clouds, and freedom from suffering. That seems like the only possible solution given your very dissatisfying circumstances. But-"

"But what?"

"Well, that's not Hollywood glass in those skyscraper windows. You start flinging yourself against the window but it doesn't give. Your dissatisfaction is of such intensity that you might break bones and crack your skull from hurling yourself desperately against the window, all to no avail."

"Yeah, then what? What happens?"

"Well, the obvious thing is that you might simply perish in the hellish inferno. No law against dying."
He looks at me desperately.

"Or, maybe you have some object that allows you to break the window out. Or maybe the sheer intensity of your – what are we calling it, dissatisfaction? - allows you to break through the unbreakable window. So, boom!, you blow out the window. Now there's nothing left in the equation but you, the raging fire, and a hundred story plummet to the sidewalk below. Everything is suddenly quite simple. Perhaps for the first time, your life is perfectly clear."

"Yeah? Then?"

"Burn or jump, I guess."

"Burn or jump?"

"Do you see another option?"

"Burn or jump," he says flatly.

"When you become so dissatisfied with your office that the hundred story plummet and the sidewalk seem like the better option, so dissatisfied that you actually hurl yourself out the window, then you know the level of dissatisfaction necessary to awaken from delusion."

He is silent for several moments, head bowed, thoughtful. "I guess dissatisfaction isn't the right word."

"Maybe not," I agree. "I call it purity of intent, but that doesn't really capture it either."

"And that's something every enlightened master went through?"

"You say it like there are countless enlightened masters dotting the spiritual landscape, but there are extremely few, and now you know why."

"Jesus..." he mumbles, seemingly sincere in his effort to truly appreciate what he's just been told. "Jesus."

I deliver the moral of the story in three easy pieces. "The price. Of  truth. Is everything."

"Jesus."

E-Book Bonus Content
from SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT: THE DAMNEDEST THING
by Jed McKenna
 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 11:56:26 AM by Snaca »
"There is a point at which everything becomes simple and there is no longer any question of choice, because all you have staked will be lost if you look back. Life's point of no return."
- Dag Hammarskjold

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Re: Path of Enlightenment
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2009, 07:03:45 AM »
~.~
"There is a point at which everything becomes simple and there is no longer any question of choice, because all you have staked will be lost if you look back. Life's point of no return."
- Dag Hammarskjold