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Author Topic: Buddhism: View, Path, Result  (Read 8284 times)

Offline Michael

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Buddhism: View, Path, Result
« on: December 08, 2008, 05:47:43 AM »
There are three pillars of Buddhist yogin training:

The View, the Path, and the Result.

These are very apropos of our own path, and as we have slim depth to the philosophical underpinning of our path, it is wise to draw on the vast knowledge of traditions that walk the same intent.

The View is our State of Mind. All experience, including the prosecution of our path, is conditioned by our state of mind. This is underwritten by a philosophy.

We are the prisoners of a philosophical legacy by nature of our upbringing - culturally and family. For example, notice how often in movies the 'close-up' shot is used repeatedly in American movies. This is due to a powerful cultural philosophy which has vied for supremacy in the US of what is called the cult of the individual - the lone gunman against the world etc. The definitive film being High Noon. This is being challenged now in the US as another powerful theme is finding relevance - the community. The 'close-up' shot typifies and reifies this individuality theme in the viewer, without any debate or informed permission.

Thus the job of those on the path is first to dismantle the hidden philosophical elements of influence which have been embedded in our mind without any asking for permission or evaluation of consequence. Then a rebuilding of a new mind with questioning, permission and evaluation. This is the View.

It is a state of mind devised and debated over centuries in Buddhism, and constantly evaluated against experience.

The Path is the body of practices.

The Result is the accumulation of realisations, small and large, and the consequential changes which are observed in the yogin, both inner and outer.

I want to follow here with a summary of the View - why it came about in Buddhism, how it modified and how it seeded contesting themes, some of which still remain in Buddhism today.

You will see they engaged in insightful investigation of many of the questions we begin to ask as we also have experiences which we need to place in some View context. By looking at their dissections, we can find some elements to include in our own new structure of mind, plus realise we are not alone in trying to make constructive sense of a universe that reveals itself after some progress on our path, which our normal outer world has little to offer by way of clarity.

Offline Michael

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Buddhism: View, Path, Result: Permanence
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 05:48:39 AM »
Permanence lies at the core of every worldly and spiritual mind.

Understanding the critical significance of this concept is perhaps the very first practice any aspirant undertakes. If you haven't thought about it, then you should - most traditions initiate this task with the practices surrounding Death.

The desire for permanence permeates our cultural and personal world. How we build buildings, take pictures, focus on family generations, seek to be remembered in all kinds of ingenious or stupid ways. The pyramids are perhaps the greatest monument to this desire, and they symbolise in our consciousness the folly and intensity of our desire in seeking permanence on this side of the line.

Some of you may know that I also use this concept, in seeking permanence, in my own spiritual structure, and have spoken of it elsewhere. But I seek permanence in impermanence, which for the Buddha, was far too clever and tricky.

The Buddha looked at the world of humanity and saw that everyone is embedded in a mind of attachment, and the driving core of that world was the yearning for permanence. The consequence was only one thing - suffering.

So he said, there is no permanence, and for a yogin, it's desire is the greatest obstacle on the path.

For Buddha, belief in permanence, the desire for permanence, in any form whatsoever, inner, outer, this or the other side of the line, is not only absolute folly, but demonstrates a profound ignorance of reality. Permanence simply does not exist, anywhere.

(I have no problem with this, but I ask, "What is seeking permanence?" But back to Buddhism... )

Yogin training begins with meditation, which frees the yogin from attachments. Once free from attachments, the link to permanence is broken. Once permanence is broken and replaced with flux, constraint and fear fall away, creativity flows and the mind reverts to its original and natural state of joy. That is the strategy, the plan and the process.

Karma also came into this - recognised that there were deep momentums of current within our being from ages past. The above strategy was, in early Buddhism, believed to also wipe out the long arm of karma.

This was the focus of early Buddhism, and it produced what was known as an Arhat, one who attains the ultimate release. Through meditation and non-attachment, the assimilation of impermanence is achieved, and personal liberation is realised.

But as the centuries passed it dawned on Buddhists that the Buddha was more than an Arhat. He came to bring liberation to all beings, not just himself...

Should not his followers seek to attain His mind?

Offline Michael

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Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 05:49:25 AM »
Once they adopted the approach that we could become more than an Arhat, that in fact we could become Buddhas, or rather Bodhisattvas - there could be many Buddhas who led all beings to enlightenment, not just achieved it themselves - then the concept of the ‘Large Vehicle’ arose. This was also based on the belief that the natural free mind was kind, compassionate, and as such naturally drawn towards relieving the suffering of all beings.

The Large Vehicle was called Mahayana, and its arising was called the Second Turning of the Wheel.

I should point out a critical difference between Buddhist philosophical thought and that of European Philosophy or Christian theology, and many other philosophical systems. Buddha’s ‘method’ as simplistically outlined above, was unbelievably successful in delivering for thousands upon thousands of practitioners, the intended result - a dramatic and life changing experience, known as enlightenment or samadhi. The philosophy was the subsequent attempt of these enlightened monks to improve the practice as a whole - specifically the View. Because the philosophy was no idle pastime of wealthy intellectuals, it was an integral component of the whole practice which was intended to produce a definite result.

The early Buddhists adopted a view that there existed ‘atomic’ events, called ‘dhamas’, which arose and disappeared. ‘Atomic’ meaning they had individuated existence, even if for only a short time.

This was a thought system which was built upon a foundational teaching of the Buddha: the Principle of Interdependent Origination.

This principle held two components - that all existence was in flux, impermanent, and that it was also interdependent: devoid of individual existence in its own right.

‘Emptiness’ has a specific meaning in Buddhism. It does not mean that there is nothing there. It means that nothing exists in the sense that nothing is ‘real’, due to nothing being permanent.

Thus for the early Buddhists, the paradox of atomic events and emptiness became the subject of great interest and writing - wisdom was accorded to those whose insights into this paradox was profound and acknowledged.

Mahayana Buddhism arose at a time of ‘relaxing’ of the strict ‘personal’ Arhat approach to include a shared method, and at the time of the rise of a ‘religion’ of Buddhism in which lay people’s inclusion was to be considered. Thus many pre-Buddhist deities were adopted and called Buddhas or Buddhisattvas. But ironically at such a time of more liberal broadening of the movement, a profound change entered into its innermost core.

Why should anything be excluded from this Principle of Interdependent Origination?

Buddhist thinkers finally come to the conclusion, that if they were to accept the truth of the Principle of Interdependent Origination, then they had to deny the concept of the ‘atomic’ events. This was a devastating realisation and a dangerous one. They called it the ‘emptiness within the emptiness’.

This view was put forth in the Prajnaparamita scriptures of early Mahayana. But its consequence was that everything, without exclusion, was empty of substance and meaning: the View, the Path, the Result,and the Buddha Mind itself were all empty of inherent existence. Everything is purely the expression of the interdependent origination of phenomena, and this is also empty of existence. An arrival at a point of ultimate nihilism. Everything was meaningless.

Tibetan lamas caution the teaching of emptiness to those unprepared to withstand the impact of its comprehension. Yet its very potency within Buddhism (and other traditions in which it has become recognised) is due to experiential validation through meditation. It is no idle mental rumination.

You will recall that in CC’s books, Don Juan also expressed a similar view.  Also a little after this view flourished, there arose the great teacher Adi Shanakra in India who almost single-handedly reclaimed India for Brahaminism. He is most known for promulgating within the terminology of the later Vedas precisely the same view, in which ultimate reality is beyond everything. His approach to Advaita Vedanta is renown for its absolute position, that Brahman is beyond all attributes, and all else is illusion.

This has caused considerable confusion in unprepared minds, who posit that there is no realisation and nothing to strive for, no God, no Spirit, no purpose, no intent, no point to anything. Thus you see how a profound truth becomes a trap for those who are not ready or wisely counciled.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 11:02:02 AM by Michael »

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 03:19:23 PM »
~


This has caused considerable confusion in unprepared minds, who posit that there is no realisation and nothing to strive for, no God, no Spirit, no purpose, no intent, no point to anything. Thus you see how a profound truth becomes a trap for those who are not ready or wisely counciled.


Those damn unprepared minds!   ;D

Interesting. 

Michael, I ask you to participate with Ang and I.  Your posts here are the perfect example.

Will you, reduce the selection you've shared with us down to a single, coherent concept-one lucid sentence?

The Truth.

That which cannot be simpler. 

Spiritual Autolysis at work.

Zam


"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 04:44:58 PM »
concept-one lucid sentence?



What's a 'concept-one' lucid sentence?

Offline Michael

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 04:50:24 PM »
Will you, reduce the selection you've shared with us down to a single, coherent concept-one lucid sentence?

You mean like the monk who returned to Japan after seeking Buddhist enlightenment in China, and was invited to the Imperial Court to give a talk on what he had found? He went to Court, pulled out a small bamboo flute and blew one short note, then disappeared never to be heard of again.

Is that the kind of thing you want?

Or are you asking for a pill instead of doing a lot of consistent exercises?

This series I am posting is not about conveying the essence of Buddhism - you would need a teacher who offers you only just the next step, and then waits till you absorb and succeed in 'getting' that step before you are presented with the next step.

This series is about cautioning people to avoid populist attitudes, geared to titillate minds that are not ready for a long hard road, and instead want everything now and easy and simple.

This is to inform those who delight in learning, about a tradition that spread over half the world for thousands of years and has produced perhaps the most comprehensive and effective methods ever devised by source-seekers. And I am brutalising and bastardising this tradition by reducing that vast body of knowledge into a few simplistic paragraphs, about which any self-respecting Buddhist yogin would be outraged.

I am doing this as a personal exercise in expanding my own understanding into this profound system, by trying to summarise in my own words, the ideas I am studying and exploring. I am always trying to challenge my own view, and thus to strengthen and improve it.

Plus I am deeply impressed with the dedication of the yogins who leave the world and apply themselves to these practices in complete isolation for their entire lives. Why should I think anything less is required? I am personally very attracted to their road.

Offline Michael

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Buddhism: View Path Result: Madhyamaka
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2008, 04:59:20 PM »
For the early Buddhists, these ‘atomic’ events had what they termed ‘self nature’. Meaning they existed independently, they had ‘inherent existence’, they arose and existed ‘from their own side’. In other words, they existed in the universe in their own right and were not the figment of a mind. They were ‘real’.

Not long after the transit from BC to AD/CE, the early Mahayana thinkers wrote the Prajnaparamita scriptures, which in the main rejected this idea of independent atomic events.

This view was taken up by Nagarjuna,  then followed and further developed by Chandrakirti. They went for the throat, and used a technique of analytical debate, an utter devastation to all arguments for the proposition of existence in any form whatsoever. This technique was to reduce the opponents view to absurdity. It turned the argument upon itself and rendered it exhausted in its own confusion.

This philosophical position was known as Madhyamaka, the ‘middle position’, and the technique of deconstruction and complete obliteration of all opposing points of view was called Madhyamaka Prasangika.

Madhyamaka is still today the primary philosophical position of Mahayana Buddhism.

It demolished the beliefs of not only all other Buddhist tenants, but also those of other religions. Thus it asserts neither the existence of a void, nor any kind of permanent principle whatsoever, including the atman of Hinduism. Meaning it denied any permanent core existence not only to ourselves personally, either in personality or in our deepest self, but also to the entire cosmos. The universe was thus completely and absolutely devoid of all meaning, substance or purpose.

Madhyamaka grew and flourished up to the 6th century CE, and as I said, is still the ultimate core of Mahayana today.

It is a reasonable argument to say, isn’t this a depressing view? You Buddhists are suppossed to be relieving suffering but all you are offering via Madhyamaka is empty nothing?

They counter this argument by pointing out that all suffering (by which they mean mental suffering) is based upon expectations, fixed ideas, attachments and attitudes. All of which are acquired through our family, teachers and culture. We inherit a value system that then becomes a cage, which is the basis of our suffering when reality does not match it. Our whole subconscious vision, the result of our socialisation, is violated when the world crosses it, and in that we are bound to suffering.

Madhyamaka pushes us along a thought path which ultimately strips us of all support, then drops us into a vision that renders all our presuppositions and presumptions invalid. It is an experiential tool, not just a philosophy. Like Zen koans, it destroys the very foundations of the prison which causes our suffering. It delivers us into utter nakedness of being, before a mirror which reflects nothing more than a mirage.

This is the method behind the famous debates of the Gelugpas, with their dramatic hand slapping gestures. They are trying to apply the Prasangika technique to discombobulate the mind of their opponent. Because in that discombobulation a doorway opens, which remains tight sealed when we have confidence in our mental vision of ourselves, where we are going and why. Once that is successfully laid waste - the mind is such a powerful tyrant - a vital and precious opportunity opens to us. Unfortunately, we strive with all our might to close that door again, to regain our certitude and composure. In that short space, if we were to mount an arrow, like a mantra, we could ride out from our cage on a white stallion, and catch a glimpse of eternity ... but only the wise are capable of that, let alone seek it.

A few hundred years after the peak of this philosophy in India, Shankara adopted the same methodology, for the same purpose, and it was called Advaita Vedanta. Which had many variations of meaning, as happened in the Buddhist world earlier, but both Nagarjuna and Shankara espoused the final and ultimate end point in this direction. One could go no further, so the only way was back.

In both cases, in Mahayana and Hinduism, people began to say, “Yes, but we don’t like it.” It was somehow inhuman, and soon positions of practical moderation began to be presented - and so they should. After all, what is this all around us? How do we account for undeniable appearances and how do we value the heart?

Offline Definitive Journey

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2008, 05:35:24 PM »
~


I am doing this as a personal exercise in expanding my own understanding into this profound system, by trying to summarise in my own words, the ideas I am studying and exploring. I am always trying to challenge my own view, and thus to strengthen and improve it.


Yea, that was my take on what you had written as well.

Nice.

Will you, reduce the selection you've shared with us down to a single, coherent concept-one lucid sentence, when you get a better grasp on it?

I couldn't find an answer in your post.  You mentioned 'wants' and 'needs.'  I'm just looking for an answer.  If the answer is yes, I'm looking forward to reading it.

z




"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline daphne

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 01:04:22 AM »
~

Will you, reduce the selection you've shared with us down to a single, coherent concept-one lucid sentence, when you get a better grasp on it?


You mean something like fast food?... as in... "it's finger-lickin good"    :D

Gosh Zam.. we'd have nothing to read then... and you'd have nothing to post!



Offline daphne

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 10:36:54 AM »
This post is just an invitation to consider that Zam may be able to move through this stuff faster than say people were able to move through it 3000 years ago...or even 20 years ago.


What is "this stuff" that you are referring to? Who's stuff? Buddha's? Various Buddhist commentators over the ages? Michael's? Zam's? Yours?

Offline Michael

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Buddhism: View, Path, Result: Cittamatra
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 08:17:16 PM »
What began to exercise the mind of Buddhist thinkers was how to account for the world we perceive around us. Accepting that in the final reality, it did not exist, and accepting that it appeared to exist, how was this appearance constructed - how did it come about and what was it made of?

This was important for them as being meditators they had come to realise the nature of mind, and began to feel dissatisfied with a  purely logical philosophical position. They wanted to tease out the very fabric of world as mind. This led to a psychological rather than philosophical approach.

The Buddhist scholar who brought Buddhism to Tibet, Santarakshita, posited a new view. So objects were ultimately non-existent, but they could exist in our mind with the appearance of conventionality, ie socially accepted,  an agreement taken for granted.

Two brothers, Asanga and Vasubandhu, went further and attacked Madhyamaka in that it failed to offer any base for the understanding of experience and belief. (Which seems fair comment to me.) Nararjuna had really only put forth the position that nothing could be said about the ultimate reality, as it was ineffable. So, by definition, it  was inexpressible. But that didn’t stop it existing in a state that was incapable of proof. Sure you can’t logically prove it exists, but there it stand before us nonetheless.

This position became know as Cittamantra, or ‘mind only’. The whole of creation is mind-created.

Citta is a Sanskrit word roughly translated as ‘mind’, but it is far more comprehensive than that, and lies at the basis of the Sanskrit model of the form side of the universe. It is the medium through which we build our world. It comes from Cit, which is one of the three fundamentals: Sat-Cit-Ananda (Truth-Mind-Bliss), of the Divine Reality, the Paramatma. So it is our part of this, but whereas Western psychological ‘mind’ is taken to mean the expression of our thought, volition and feeling, Citta is the universal medium through which consciousness functions on all planes of the manifested Universe. It is the fundamental and immaterial nature of consciousness itself, and as such was referenced in the very first statements by Patanjali on Yoga.

Cittamantra had three aspects. First was the pre-language phenomena in a categorised form. Language grasps this raw material and builds reified conceptualisations - making them appear as real things. Meditation strips this quality of fixedness and boundary from our perceptions of the world, and reveals it as a flow and without defined edges. It unmasks the discriminating mind and resolves everything into what they simply call the ‘suchness of things’, or tathata.

Cittamantra aserts that this ‘suchness’ really exists as the root of experience. Thus the use of the word Citta. Interesting how Buddhism reaches back to the ancient knowledge embedded in Sanskrit when they rediscover the nature of perceived existence, or of Maya. But further, it claims this process is not purely a personal thing - it is universal. Thus this ‘suchness’ it is in fact the Buddha Mind itself - the intrinsically pure universal state of being.

It works like this: bottom layer is the storehouse of unprocessed experience (alaya). Our actions leaves behind ‘seeds’ which exist in a dynamic, constantly changing state within this storehouse. Next layer is our everyday awareness which discriminates between elements of the store, emphasising some and skipping others, influenced by the seeds, and resulting in a construction which appears as solid reality and continuity (manas). What Toltecs called ‘skimming’. Meditation cuts through this construction, perceiving the unmodified store, and revealing the structure as illusion - the fabrication of our mind. Meditation reveals the suchness: colourful, variegated, flowing, devoid of all differentiation, without observer or observed. (Nifty way of describing it I’d say.)

The Kargyupa follow a related philosophical position which closely resembles Cittamantra. It is called Tathagatagarbha. Tathagata means Buddhahood - literally ‘the thus gone one’. Garbha means womb or embryo. Thus the womb-embryo of Buddhahood. The basis of sentience, and as such the Tathagatagarbha is equivalent to the storehouse, alaya, of Cittamantra. Clearance of  the defilement of our fabrications results in perception of its pure nature (dharmakaya), which is enlightenment - sans ‘the enlightened’.

Thus the mind itself is the basis of defilement (samsara) and of purity (nirvana). And yoga, as stated by Patanjali in his second sutra, is the “inhibition of the modifications of the mind”: the path to nirvana.

The Tathagatagarbha doctrine underpins the most important medatitive traditions within Mahayana, Mahamudra, Dzogchen, Ch’an, Zen and Son. Comprehension of it gives the tonal note to what all these traditions are aiming at, and their practices. That it subtly negates the Madhyamaka position is known, and the Madhyamakas are none too pleased. Fights have broken out and it remains not entirely resolved to this day.

For the yogin, the tension between these two positions: the philosophical irrefutability of Madhyamaka which regresses into an infinity of absence (what Zen calls Mu), and the meditational experiential perceptions of Cittamatra and Tathagatagarbha, create a dynamic which the practitioner can employ beneficially in acquiring the View.

Meditating on the deepest meaning of the essence of existence, while acknowledging the experience revealed through the endeavour of meditation, allows the yogin to acquire a profound and resilient View.

That is a simple exposition of the Buddhist practitioner’s View. Next we deal with the Path.

Offline daphne

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 11:47:23 AM »
There is only one set of stuff to move through. 

Various people over the ages have written about it and described it in various ways, but it is the same stuff.

My assertion is that people 30 and under are getting this stuff and moving through it at ever increasing speeds.  Largely considered a bad thing by older teachers...especially by the teachers a few thousand years ago.

A number of organizations (usually having nothing to do with spirituality or toltec/buddhism) have cropped up in the last twenty years and are helping people move through the realizations in as short as a weekend...and yes, they really are getting it.

Thats why I asked to what are you referring to when you say "this stuff". When you say "there is only one set of stuff to move through", I find that rather ambiguous. You see... I am not particularly "enlightened"  :)

Quote
Is that okay with you that I said that?

Love you.

Don't be silly! You don't need my ok to say anything!


Offline daphne

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Re: Buddhism: View Path Result: Emptiness
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 11:16:38 AM »
You don't need to be particularly enlightened...you ARE alive are you not?

Daphne...what holds you back? 
Do you know?
You must certainly know what holds *you* back better than me, or anyone else...yes?

What is it you see me holding back from?

*That* stuff.
Oh to be sure "I" don't need your permission to speak as I will...but on some level you need to choose to let me say or not, not for me...but for you.

So I will ask you again, is it ok with you that I am saying what I am saying...or that I speak at all?  Think about it, then answer.  Is it ok with you that I mayhave a view unlike your own???

Love you.

Like I said.. don't be silly. Had I not already chosen, we would not be having this conversation. Why do you have to ask?

littlefeather

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Re: Buddhism: View, Path, Result
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 03:50:15 PM »
A little reminder:

We can see.
 ;D

Offline daphne

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Re: Buddhism: View, Path, Result
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 05:09:56 PM »
Btw Daphne, I am not going to get in a debate with you about whether you want to get this stuff or not...you wouldn't BE here if you didn't want to get it.  Your showing up day after day, regardless of what you *think* your motives are on the surface, is a declaration that you, Daphne, WANT to get this. 

In other words, you already gave me permission.  What you are as yet unable to do (because of this big invisible thing holding you back) is to "choose" this for yourself.  In the same way you are as yet unable to "choose" it being ok me being different than you.

Which leaves you powerlessly inbetween in a sort of limbo-land.  Your inability to choose this for yourself is why all the things you have tried are not really working.  You won't get that from me saying it though...you really have to try it and see.

Here, try one much closer to home.  "I choose my son's A _ _ _ _ _ _."  And see how things shift inside you.  Say it a few times if it is not immediately self evident.  You shouln't need to say it but once or twice...and things will get real very fast.

Because, until you can choose...you are a victim.  And victims are powerless.  You can read thousands of books on enlightenment, and even if they spelled it out perfectly, you would be powerless to attain it for yourself.  So you have to "get" choosing...and you can't get choosing by seeing what you have and "understanding" you must have choosen it.  You don't get choosing by knowing we have choices.  You get choosing BY choosing.

Whatever IT is...the way to IT...is often called the method of last resort...because it is invariably the last thing we try.  If we get that, then the logic of trying the last thing first *winks* will make sense.

Love you.

You got it yet?    ;)