Topic: When we love somebody...

[littlefeather]

~

Cool.

Just don't torture yourself over it.

<<<giggles>>>

z

Eh, I'll try not to.
 

[daphne]

The point I am heading towards is that it's necessary to give our torturers love.   Not for them, but for us, for me, for my own growth. I need to let go of any negative feelings and energies I had toward them (and hence myself) and love them.  Is it easy?  I think so.  There is no other choice.

Sometimes we don't need to let go of our 'negative' feelings, perhaps just allowing them to be is the route? In that way, often we may find that they have gone all on their own. They no longer hold us. Also with 'giving' love. I have found that when there is nothing in the way, love is there. Don't have to give it.. its just there. 

[littlefeather]

Sometimes we don't need to let go of our 'negative' feelings, perhaps just allowing them to be is the route? In that way, often we may find that they have gone all on their own. They no longer hold us. Also with 'giving' love. I have found that when there is nothing in the way, love is there. Don't have to give it.. its just there. 

Yeah, I agree, and so for me, after I allowed the feelings, cuz that was necessary too, then let go of them, guess what's there now... Love!
(I don't really know if I let them go or they went on their own, though happy they did)

[Sky]

 

[Sky]

LOVE
Gurulugomi (Buddhist Sage~12th Century AD)
If you develop love truly great,
rid of the desire to hold and possess.
That strong, clean love untarnished by lust,
that love which does not expect to be repayed,
that love which is firm but not grasping,
enduring but not tied down,
gentle and settled,
diamond-hard but unhurting,
helpful but not interfering,
cool and refreshing,
giving more than taking,
dignified but not proud,
soft but not weak,
that love which leads to Enlightenment,
then you will be washed of all ill-will.

[littlefeather]

LOVE
Gurulugomi (Buddhist Sage~12th Century AD)
If you develop love truly great,
rid of the desire to hold and possess.
That strong, clean love untarnished by lust,
that love which does not expect to be repayed,
that love which is firm but not grasping,
enduring but not tied down,
gentle and settled,
diamond-hard but unhurting,
helpful but not interfering,
cool and refreshing,
giving more than taking,
dignified but not proud,
soft but not weak,
that love which leads to Enlightenment,
then you will be washed of all ill-will.

Love-ly!
 

[Red one]

It was your analogy:

Dear jaharkta, I'm well aware that using 'torturer' as an extreme example of 'petty tyrant' was my analogy. You do not have to remind me of that (I'm quite able to keep track of what I am saying).

Now, if you have any serious interest in investigating things over and above expressing some petty emotions - you are welcome (you konw, you can fake your thoughts so that even you yourself believe them, but under no circumstances can you fake emotions/feelings and associated energies). However, if you just want to keep expressing some suppressed emotions and cover them with fake thoughts - it is a waste of time.

[Red one]

The point I am heading toward is that it may be necessary to give our torturers love.   Not for them, but for us, for me, for my own growth. I need to let go of any negative feelings and energies I had toward them (and hence myself) and love them.  Is it easy?  I think so.  There is no other choice.

I was expecting that statement, and I doubt very much the 'easiness' of it. Think about it in these terms - somebody is slowly sawing off your perfectly healthy and good leg without anesthetics. How easy it is to love that person?

Have you ever thought why Tibetans (despite being almost 100% Buddhist nation) still have a history of getting violent against Chinese?

[daphne]

Because I am absolutely certain that most people here (me included) would find it difficult to say 'I love you' to, e.g., person torturing us. On the other hand, we know the term 'unconditional love' pops up at certain stage of the path. Some analysis is necessary to get to the depth of its meaning.

As far as I understand it, 'love' and 'unconditional love' have nothing in common other than the use of the one same word - 'love'.
For me, 'love', as it is commonly used, is an emotion; can be a feeling too. 'Unconditional love' is neither an emotion nor a feeling. Rather it is a state of being. The 'depth of meaning', to me, is that which I give to the idea of 'love' as a mental concept.

[Red one]

As far as I understand it, 'love' and 'unconditional love' have nothing in common other than the use of the one same word - 'love'.
For me, 'love', as it is commonly used, is an emotion; can be a feeling too. 'Unconditional love' is neither an emotion nor a feeling. Rather it is a state of being. The 'depth of meaning', to me, is that which I give to the idea of 'love' as a mental concept.

Yes, I see the common use of 'love' usually is an expression of emotion as well, and as it is an emotion, the tacit requirement of reciprocating is programmed into it. All songs, fairytales, dramas, movies, etc. talk about such 'love', be it with a happy end or be it about an 'unanswered feeling'. One can put together a fairly thorough cultural picture of such a 'love' and its various facets.

I have been scanning my memory for a single widely known (in the Western world) story about 'unconditional love', and so far nothing has come to my mind. I would even exclude the Bible as it contains quite a bit of stuff that Jesus would never support.

Would there be something to tell for an ordinary story-teller? Would an ordinary story-teller even recognize such a phenomenon? What story could he tell about it?

[littlefeather]

I was expecting that statement, and I doubt very much the 'easiness' of it.

Sometimes our expectations can do us more harm than good.   

 Think about it in these terms - somebody is slowly sawing off your perfectly healthy and good leg without anesthetics. How easy it is to love that person?

I am speaking from experience.  It is your choice, of course as to whether or not you take my words to heart.   

[Definitive Journey]

~

Love is an action word.  Love is a verb, it cannot be given, or withheld, or lost.

[Red one]

Think about it in these terms - somebody is slowly sawing off your perfectly healthy and good leg without anesthetics. How easy it is to love that person?

I am speaking from experience.  It is your choice, of course as to whether or not you take my words to heart.

So you know by experience how it feels when somebody amputates wihtout any reason your perfectly functional and healthy limb without anesthetics and you loved that person in the process. Which leg did you lose and what happened to it afterwards? Did you feed it to the dogs or did you throw it to the ants?

There's nothing to add, really, except that it all sounds like a medical case or at least it is a crime to be reported.

Maybe only one tiny question: what exactly are you doing here? Teaching us, poor bastards?

I am in awe! Yet, there's a little...a little possibility...that you missed the point.

You might be talking about forgiveness of one person post factum.
I am speaking about feeling that is permanent and constant and inclusive and probably does not require any post factum activities.

A tiny bit different subject, but I am still impressed by your zeal to prove your omniscience and omnipotency.

[littlefeather]

So you know by experience how it feels when somebody amputates wihtout any reason your perfectly functional and healthy limb without anesthetics and you loved that person in the process. Which leg did you lose and what happened to it afterwards? Did you feed it to the dogs or did you throw it to the ants?

That was your story,   I said that I had experience with torturers.  I still have both my legs, all my limbs in fact. 

If you are asking me have I ever loved someone while they were torturing me, I can tell you that on one occasion in particular, that very thing saved my life.    It's not unheard of.


Have a nice day

[littlefeather]

~

Love is an action word.  Love is a verb, it cannot be given, or withheld, or lost.

Love is!