Topic: Noises of the nagual

[CherryArc]

"During a short pause in our talk I heard a strange rasping noise at the back of the house. Don Juan held me down; I had almost stood up as a reaction to it. Before the noise happened, our conversation had been a matter of course for me. But when the pause occurred, and there was a moment of silence, the strange noise popped through it. At that instant I had the certainty that our conversation was an extraordinary event. I had the sensation that the sound of don juans words and mine were like a sheet that broke, and that the rasping sound had been deliberately prowling, waiting for a chance to break through."

Tales of power.

When I usually read these books I don't so much build new concepts about ideas but draw on what I remember from my own experiences that are similar. For example when I read this I was reminded of a time when I experienced this same noise while sharing energy with someone. We were trading feelings of euphoria and love and joy, I was in the most peculiar state of ecstasy when I heard a strange scratching as if something invisible was prowling around the ceiling. My body went into a state of shock, I had extreme shakes and vibrations and I was frozen with fear. All I could do was pray to saint Michael and eventually I heard it scurry off. It happened once after that in a motel room. I thought it was some sort of guardian, but from what I read its apparently the nagual.

Has anyone else ever experienced something like this?

[Endless~Knot]

This reminded me about when I had kundalini rising many years ago. I was sick at the time and I became healed in an instant.

[Michael]

This was not the noise of the nagual, in any way for us - it was for Carlos because Genaro was playing tricks on him. Genaro was attracting his 2nd Att, and that meant, from the AP position CC was lodged in, the nagual. But that does not mean the nagual makes creepy noises. Anything that approaches us from the 2nd Att, due to our AP position predominantly oriented in the 1st Att, is going to be the whispering of the nagual. This is based on the fairly essential and simplistic breakdown of existence into tonal and nagual (which I don't disagree with).

But no one should begin to associate the nagual with spooky things. Genaro was pushing Carlos very hard, and Carlos had his own addiction to spooky, so put the two together and there's the story. It is natural for the whisperings of the nagual to have a very unsettling effect on us, due to the fact we have concocted a world in which this element is denied. But that unsettling, even profoundly disturbing or fear, is not necessarily creepy-crawly unless you are doing that kind of ceremony.

So to your story, that is correct for you at that time (this is personal), that something, whatever it might be, triggered your nagual side. It matters what it is from the point of us trying to negotiate the 2nd Att, but doesn't matter from the point of us trying to crack the tyranny of the tonal.

The reason I always try to drag people away from any obsession with spooks, is because Carlos did us a serious dis-service by his own obsession with the dark and heavy side of the nagual. This has left a dank stink around the whole toltec scene sponsored by Carlos. You find it in forums based on Carlos's works, and quite frankly I find it childish. The nagual is filled with the most fantastic and wonderful, so to get trapped in the dank heavy side is very unfortunate.

Of course there is fear - worse, I'd easily use the word terror. The things we have to do can bring us through the most disturbing things imaginable, but these are just corners of the 2nd Att that we pass through. It is of paramount importance we do not allow such corners to colour our entire journey through the 2nd Att. There is also ecstasy and beauty, but more significant, is the empty. Oddly we seem to have to spend a lifetime before we discover the empty.

The Guardian is closely connected, and alas, this is really what we are speaking of. What stands between us and the nagual is accumulated rejected feelings of a lifetime. So we have to pass through a veil of our own unexamined emotions before we are allowed any kind of freedom. This is why it is best to begin the task of depleting that accumulation before we do too much nagual work.

Your fear is a combination of the terror of your tonal discovering it's not the only world, and your Guardian. Every time you connect to the 2nd Att in this kind of way, the fear will lessen. You'll still feel the thrill of the nagual, but fear will be replaced by excitement. It just takes time and experience. On our path, we walk the liminal - always.

[CherryArc]

K so its not the nagual. But my first assumption was correct then, it was a guardian.

[nemo]

K so its not the nagual. But my first assumption was correct then, it was a guardian.

In agreement with Michael said here CherryArc, The tonal likes to label so it feels it knows and can formulate, an experience into something comprehensive so it feels comfortable. Energetically speaking what is going on is something solid and understood, is being opened by something fluid and unknowable, to create a third perspective in the world of the unknown. That

Another way to state this is the first attention, has a limited field of experience, the second attention has a field of study that is energetic, but lacks in the identity of the first attention (loosely put). 

[Michael]

CherryArc, it's not so cut and dried. The feeling you had indicated you are contacting the nagual - it was opening up your tonal world. But the nagual doesn't have a specific sound - it can be anything. Your fear is connected with the guardian of the threshold. But its more complicated than that...

The nagual is the unknown, and in this case something happened to you which created that particular feeling in you. This feeling is a common one we all get at a certain stage of the path, when we have contacted the unknown. Its appearance is deeply unsettling to our 1st Att tonal, in a way that is difficult to describe, but it can cause our hair to stand up so to speak.

How we react to that knocking of the nagual is about the guardian. These are just tonal concepts we employ to gain some handle on things, but don't become wedded to the concepts. We just have to have some way of talking and having a general mud-map. When the nagual knocks, all the books and ideas are out the window.

[CherryArc]

So your saying I took this experience and somehow duped it into my tonal so that I could attempt to understand it? What else can I do with this?

I understand what your saying though, the noises werent the nagual, the nagual was what i may have experienced before or during. I had always assumed it was some sort of guardian. but your saying that came about because my tonal shrank?

[Michael]

Extreme shakes and vibrations - frozen with fear.
Yes, I call it a spiritual panic attack.
Two things you can do. Firstly, prepare yourself - gain a fluid and robust tonal that won't crap out so quickly. Secondly, keep seeking the nagual, and each time the shakes will be less.

However, I am just talking theory. I don't know you, and I don't have the authority to be giving you personal advice. Dealing with the nagual's intrusion into the tonal is a serious matter. I can only offer the theory, and the warnings. My best advice is to build your path gradually and with dedication, across a wide range of arrangements and practices. Every now and then, we send forth a scout, to look over the hill, but don't place all your money on the scout - move the whole front of your life forward strategically. If you are serious, the nagual will come.

[Igotlife]

Sounds like the beginning of an out of body experience, if you can let it continue, your energy body will leave the body. This leaves the physical body lifeless, so it's wise to come back in time.

For example when I read this I was reminded of a time when I experienced this same noise while sharing energy with someone. We were trading feelings of euphoria and love and joy, I was in the most peculiar state of ecstasy when I heard a strange scratching as if something invisible was prowling around the ceiling. My body went into a state of shock, I had extreme shakes and vibrations and I was frozen with fear. All I could do was pray to saint Michael and eventually I heard it scurry off. It happened once after that in a motel room. I thought it was some sort of guardian, but from what I read its apparently the nagual.

Has anyone else ever experienced something like this?

[Endless~Knot]

It is true shakes and vibrations can lead to an OOB, but Michael may be right this was more of a spiritual panic attack.

I have this thing where the more we advance, we are tested, maybe by either other beings, or by spirit. The testing is to see if we are 'worthy' of advancing. So the trick is to be impeccable as we can be. We aren't impeccable we walk away nothing more than a madman. We can go crazy if we fail the tests. Believe me I have seen so many folks go on the 'unique' spiritual path, maybe one with magick or involved IBs or something more mystical and ethereal, and they went flipping crazy. I almost lost my mind too at one point, cause I was not being as impeccable as I should have been. So very important when this occurs, to be impeccable. I cannot stress it enough, how critical this is. This is the key. Everything we do, our word, our actions, must fit into this. Then we can slip through the cracks and get to the glory of the infinite.