Soma
Sacred Earth => Shaman [Public] => Topic started by: Michael on July 22, 2006, 08:49:12 PM
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everything is spirit
has many layers of significance
but always alive
everything is alive.
one of the hardest and first lessons on this path, the recognition that we exist in an alive world.
and that world is agglutinated - every agglutination has its own unique spirit:
your car has a spirit by dint of its agglutinated appearance - it is an inherent quality in an object. take a pile of dirt, it has an astral counterpart. shape that pile, make a thing of beauty that lasts for ages, and there you find a deep and complex spirit.
but there exists a crossbeam, which is awareness, a special quality of vivification, with potential threads of self-awareness. that’s how we see it. a vast landscape of beings that merge into each other, but some have a fiery quality of energy, as a solid core of light - we call these living creatures, some organic, some not.
among these there is a superfine group, who connect to the beam of self-awareness.
there are inanimate objects, which have inherent spirits, and when they are old or rare, they can be merged with an aware spirit of the inorganic type - that is exactly our situation. we have a body, and what we would call our I resides inside this body, an inorganic driving an organic spirit.
it is very important to know the difference in dreaming and in waking. some spirits are shells, and some have energetic essence, and some have injected energy with no autonomous essence. so too some things are forceful, but not true. some people are hollow, and some are springs. know the difference, when you see the light of awareness, that is our ticket.
spirits are everywhere. mass opinions are spirits, living off the minds of humans. so the view that we are unique independent self-directed and free individuals, is a spirit, who happens to come from Europe, and has spread. it existed in Asia, but under a different purpose. your family’s common political allegiance is also a spirit.
spirits control us, they feed for life off every emotion. and so do we, who as indwelling spirits. but we need to take control of the ship - this is where the battles of the spirits inside us play out, as we strive for the ability to say, “I can change my life.”. no longer one of those endless people - who crap on about all manner of spiritual dialogues, but are unable to change their horse’s nature even if they solemnly believed they should - who are powerless over themselves.
bad spirits - please just don’t go there, things are hard enough without their nightmares. naturally in healing we have no choice, but that is tolerable. To invite curiosity about bad spirits is idiocy - just walk out, close the door behind.
but how to tell a bad one? this is really a very important skill, let me tell you from experience, i wish i had seen some for what they were a lot sooner - you must know, our tribe are attracted to bright objects - it’s in our nature... One particularly bad experience, where i acquired a conch shell in circumstances i can only describe as bazaar in the extreme. that should have been a dead give-away, Julie knew, but i was in love with the conch. I had eventually to dispose of this after a long string of things going wrong, but it was a lesson for me. i’ve had to learn that one a few times now! anyway my remedy worked immediately, that’s the important thing - not just recognising a bummer, but knowing how to dispense with it as slickly as possible.
good ones... oh me oh my could we not rave, there is so much out there.
mostly when we talk of spirits in external operational terminology, we are referring to those that inhabit places, locals, and archetypes, but most interesting are the nature spirits that inhabit places of power. these are the ones shamans commonly dance with. they can be found in creeks and trees and mountains, and in old places of significance, like temples, caves, hill tops, rings etc. they can also be found inside us, but most virile humans like a full on experience. there are centre hub places for different types of energy... most interesting subject.
in the end, i personally am of the opinion that the best are the spirits of freedom. especially that bird. for these we have to sacrifice the cheaper time fillers.
the spirits of silence, they are to be acknowledged, they open the cosmic landscape of silence, that we can almost just walk into. they are subtle, fine. waiting like vultures, to rip out my heads. lying there like a soft naked woman, to receive me as i let go all that stuff, and sink into her flesh of silence.
m
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everything is spirit
has many layers of significance
but always alive
everything is alive.
one of the hardest and first lessons on this path, the recognition that we exist in an alive world.
and that world is agglutinated - every agglutination has its own unique spirit:
your car has a spirit by dint of its agglutinated appearance - it is an inherent quality in an object. take a pile of dirt, it has an astral counterpart. shape that pile, make a thing of beauty that lasts for ages, and there you find a deep and complex spirit.
but there exists a crossbeam, which is awareness, a special quality of vivification, with potential threads of self-awareness. that’s how we see it. a vast landscape of beings that merge into each other, but some have a fiery quality of energy, as a solid core of light - we call these living creatures, some organic, some not.
among these there is a superfine group, who connect to the beam of self-awareness.
there are inanimate objects, which have inherent spirits, and when they are old or rare, they can be merged with an aware spirit of the inorganic type - that is exactly our situation. we have a body, and what we would call our I resides inside this body, an inorganic driving an organic spirit.
it is very important to know the difference in dreaming and in waking. some spirits are shells, and some have energetic essence, and some have injected energy with no autonomous essence. so too some things are forceful, but not true. some people are hollow, and some are springs. know the difference, when you see the light of awareness, that is our ticket.
spirits are everywhere. mass opinions are spirits, living off the minds of humans. so the view that we are unique independent self-directed and free individuals, is a spirit, who happens to come from Europe, and has spread. it existed in Asia, but under a different purpose. your family’s common political allegiance is also a spirit.
spirits control us, they feed for life off every emotion. and so do we, who as indwelling spirits. but we need to take control of the ship - this is where the battles of the spirits inside us play out, as we strive for the ability to say, “I can change my life.”. no longer one of those endless people - who crap on about all manner of spiritual dialogues, but are unable to change their horse’s nature even if they solemnly believed they should - who are powerless over themselves.
bad spirits - please just don’t go there, things are hard enough without their nightmares. naturally in healing we have no choice, but that is tolerable. To invite curiosity about bad spirits is idiocy - just walk out, close the door behind.
but how to tell a bad one? this is really a very important skill, let me tell you from experience, i wish i had seen some for what they were a lot sooner - you must know, our tribe are attracted to bright objects - it’s in our nature... One particularly bad experience, where i acquired a conch shell in circumstances i can only describe as bazaar in the extreme. that should have been a dead give-away, Julie knew, but i was in love with the conch. I had eventually to dispose of this after a long string of things going wrong, but it was a lesson for me. i’ve had to learn that one a few times now! anyway my remedy worked immediately, that’s the important thing - not just recognising a bummer, but knowing how to dispense with it as slickly as possible.
good ones... oh me oh my could we not rave, there is so much out there.
mostly when we talk of spirits in external operational terminology, we are referring to those that inhabit places, locals, and archetypes, but most interesting are the nature spirits that inhabit places of power. these are the ones shamans commonly dance with. they can be found in creeks and trees and mountains, and in old places of significance, like temples, caves, hill tops, rings etc. they can also be found inside us, but most virile humans like a full on experience. there are centre hub places for different types of energy... most interesting subject.
in the end, i personally am of the opinion that the best are the spirits of freedom. especially that bird. for these we have to sacrifice the cheaper time fillers.
the spirits of silence, they are to be acknowledged, they open the cosmic landscape of silence, that we can almost just walk into. they are subtle, fine. waiting like vultures, to rip out my heads. lying there like a soft naked woman, to receive me as i let go all that stuff, and sink into her flesh of silence.
m
Just dusting off some older posts...
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;)
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Thought it needed some more dusting, and some thoughts.
spirits are everywhere. mass opinions are spirits, living off the minds of humans. so the view that we are unique independent self-directed and free individuals, is a spirit, who happens to come from Europe, and has spread. it existed in Asia, but under a different purpose. your family’s common political allegiance is also a spirit.
spirits control us, they feed for life off every emotion. and so do we, who as indwelling spirits. but we need to take control of the ship - this is where the battles of the spirits inside us play out, as we strive for the ability to say, “I can change my life.”. no longer one of those endless people - who crap on about all manner of spiritual dialogues, but are unable to change their horse’s nature even if they solemnly believed they should - who are powerless over themselves.
mostly when we talk of spirits in external operational terminology, we are referring to those that inhabit places, locals, and archetypes, but most interesting are the nature spirits that inhabit places of power. these are the ones shamans commonly dance with. they can be found in creeks and trees and mountains, and in old places of significance, like temples, caves, hill tops, rings etc. they can also be found inside us, but most virile humans like a full on experience. there are centre hub places for different types of energy... most interesting subject.
in the end, i personally am of the opinion that the best are the spirits of freedom. especially that bird. for these we have to sacrifice the cheaper time fillers.
the spirits of silence, they are to be acknowledged, they open the cosmic landscape of silence, that we can almost just walk into. they are subtle, fine. waiting like vultures, to rip out my heads. lying there like a soft naked woman, to receive me as i let go all that stuff, and sink into her flesh of silence.
m
I am currently reading a book called "Breaking the Spell" Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, by Daniel C. Dennett. Interesting thoughts, but funny thing about scientists they don't bring spirit-ual possibilities into their considerations until they have absolutely no choice left, and then they have to rename it and try to make it more exact, specific, and more their own idea.
But it brings up an interesting concept, that of the meme, as basically ideas that evolve and use us to fight for survival. It makes clear, that "of course" an idea doesn't have the power to actually fight for survival, just as "obviously" a virus has no ability to fight for its survival, it just latches on to its host. This of course is similar to what you are saying about them feeding off of us to survive. A lot of interesting stuff about the evolution of these ideas throughout history that when translated into the language of spirituality the ideas they are presenting actually make more sense in some ways.
Also reminded me of the book by Niel Gaimen called American Gods, which had the idea of the Gods as being living spirits but created by us, like powerful thought-forms, and we give them our power through our worship of and paying attention to them. We brought the spirits and gods with us when we came to America. Of course the book also mentions that spirits that were already here, and the main characters journey to get a feather from a thunderbird. It felt to me like there was power in this book. It made me think about how the spirits are every where esp. how there could be the strangest spirits, it stretched my imagination of what spirits might be like.
The sciency book also made me think of what happened to the ideas/spirits of early Christianity in the sense of sperm. The "seeds" that were sent out dispersed and only some survived to inseminate the minds of the people for the long run...until now of course with the revival of the ancient ways. Wonder what spiritual forces brought on this second insemination (second cum-ing...lol)?
The sexual and the spiritual...
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important to know the difference between spirits that have energetic essence, and those which are constructs of humans or other beings. Constructs are simply shells, but can be filled with a lot of power.
Like when you see a person in dream, how to know when they are reflections of our inner self, or real separate entities, and then are they who they appear to be?
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important to know the difference between spirits that have energetic essence, and those which are constructs of humans or other beings. Constructs are simply shells, but can be filled with a lot of power.
Like when you see a person in dream, how to know when they are reflections of our inner self, or real separate entities, and then are they who they appear to be?
yes, yes, I have been pondering this, very interesting. I had a dream of you once, somehow I know it was just my own minds construct or at least that it wasn't the real you, something was missing. Felt too two dimensional, like to flat, it was missing some sort of juice you feel when something is living....at least I knew somehow it wasn't you. Can we see the reflection of the how or where it was created in it if we can see in that way. Can we see our own reflection in it we have created it. And how to differentiate between our own projection of self onto the spirit and the actual spirit. we always project and identify, see what we think we see.....
another thing I have been pondering, is it possible for a spirit that is a construct of humans or other beings to somehow, maybe if it lives long enough somehow get an energetic essence? even Pinocchio became a real boy, lol.
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is it possible for a spirit that is a construct of humans or other beings to somehow, maybe if it lives long enough somehow get an energetic essence? even Pinocchio became a real boy, lol.
who can say what can happen, but I doubt it myself. I have met in astral extremely powerful figures who were shells, and yet they had power far beyond me - instilled by devotees for thousands of years.
When speaking of these 'shells' it is not so easy to be clear. Take the Indian gods who I have explored. Are they shells or manifestations of human desires, or real with energetic essence? I would have said many years ago, that they are projections of inner archetypes in the human subconscious. Now I say they are that, but also more - they come to me as individuated beings. And are they in Australia as well as India? Well I don't believe so, except by a special 'link'.
Their philosophical aspects will always be available anywhere, but their unique energy seems only available in India. And yet I know they go beyond that, and manifest in Australia or US or anywhere. But it's not the same - in India they have a presence which is absolutely extraordinary. They will walk up to you in the street, even touch you - Julie has been touched twice by gods in India.
It is such a mystery, one can only roll with it, and say, anything is possible in this universe.
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I've always thought that "the Christ" and "the devil" were both examples of beings who gained independent energy through the momentum of people's attributions and imputations to them. I'm re-evaluating that idea these days. Though "the devil" does come to be a catch-all concept, it seems.
They feel very different to me than "Shiva" or "Kali". But I believe what you're saying, M, about needing to be in India to have a full appreciation therein.
The "empty shell" concept is most driven home to me by 'tulpas'. I had one of those once, and I assumed he would just fade away through my own neglect. But if I tune into him, I sense that he is still about, consorting with his own kind. (In his case, centaurs.)
But this brings up another question: did I really 'create' him, or did I simply perceive him out of the flotsam and jetsam around me?
Interesting topic, Jen!
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But this brings up another question: did I really 'create' him, or did I simply perceive him out of the flotsam and jetsam around me?
This is a good question. Can we ever really create anything? Or is everything already here just waiting for us to become aware? How do we know for sure?
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This is a good question. Can we ever really create anything? Or is everything already here just waiting for us to become aware? How do we know for sure?
Yes, good stuff for chewing!
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This is a good question. Can we ever really create anything? Or is everything already here just waiting for us to become aware? How do we know for sure?
This has already been discussed. In pure energy terms we cannot create a iota but we can change existing energy - that is the same as to manifest. We can build a house or give birth to a child or a demon. The house was a brick of walls and a stack of lumber before it became a house. So in strict energy terms we do not create, the energy that created the house was already there -(in termsof bricks and lumber) we only transform it and our money pay the carpenters. Food gives nourishment to the unborn child, while depression and nightmares gives energy to the demon.
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This has already been discussed. In pure energy terms we cannot create a iota but we can change existing energy - that is the same as to manifest. We can build a house or give birth to a child or a demon. The house was a brick of walls and a stack of lumber before it became a house. So in strict energy terms we do not create, the energy that created the house was already there -
Exactly.
:-*
;D
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I've always thought that "the Christ" and "the devil" were both examples of beings who gained independent energy through the momentum of people's attributions and imputations to them.
How about Yeshua?
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This has already been discussed. In pure energy terms we cannot create a iota but we can change existing energy - that is the same as to manifest. We can build a house or give birth to a child or a demon. The house was a brick of walls and a stack of lumber before it became a house. So in strict energy terms we do not create, the energy that created the house was already there -(in termsof bricks and lumber) we only transform it and our money pay the carpenters. Food gives nourishment to the unborn child, while depression and nightmares gives energy to the demon.
I like the way you put it but I am reluctant to draw strict conclusions about anything spirit or energy. With a world of infinity and eternity, and just as many possible dimensions of experience; AP positions, who is this little me to say what is what with absolute certainty?
As Michael put it: who can say what can happen, but I doubt it myself.
Yeshua, I'm assuming you mean one of the names for Jesus? I don't know but here is more food for thought along those lines, and I would love to here what you think about Yeshua, including why you choose that name?
"Christ and human evolution
Steiner describes Christ's being and mission on earth as having a central place in human evolution:[49]
The being of Christ is central to all religions, though called by different names by each.
Every religion is valid and true for the time and cultural context in which it was born.
Historical forms of Christianity need to be transformed considerably in our times in order to meet the on-going evolution of humanity.
It is the being that unifies all religions — and not a particular religious faith — that Steiner saw as the central force in human evolution. He understood Christ's incarnation as a historical reality, and a pivotal point in human history, however. The "Christ Being" is for Steiner not only the Redeemer of the Fall from Paradise, but also the unique pivot and meaning of earth's "evolutionary" processes and of all human history. [49] The essence of being "Christian" is, for Steiner, a search for balance between polarizing extremes[50] and the ability to manifest love in freedom.[10]" Wikipedia
Divergence from conventional Christian thought
Steiner's views of Christianity diverge from conventional Christian thought in key places, and include gnostic elements.[51] One of the central points of divergence is found in Steiner's views on reincarnation and karma.
Steiner also posited two different Jesus children involved in the Incarnation of the Christ: one child descended from Solomon, as described in the Gospel of Matthew; the other child from Nathan, as described in the Gospel of Luke.[40] (The genealogies given in the two gospels diverge some thirty generations before Jesus' birth.)
Steiner's view of the second coming of Christ is also unusual. He suggested that this would not be a physical reappearance, but rather, meant that the Christ being would become manifest in non-physical form, in the "etheric realm" — i.e. visible to spiritual vision and apparent in community life — for increasing numbers of people, beginning around the year 1933. He emphasized that the future would require humanity to recognize this Spirit of Love in all its genuine forms, regardless of how this is named. He also warned that the traditional name, "Christ", might be used, yet the true essence of this Being of Love ignored. Wikipedia
This is something I have begun researching with avid interest.
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How about Yeshua?
Could you clarify the distinction?
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When speaking of these 'shells' it is not so easy to be clear. Take the Indian gods who I have explored. Are they shells or manifestations of human desires, or real with energetic essence? I would have said many years ago, that they are projections of inner archetypes in the human subconscious. Now I say they are that, but also more - they come to me as individuated beings.
You said once something about how this forum kind of takes on a life of its own. Is that kind of like this, and is the spirit/s of this forum just shells or do they truly have a life of their own?
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Could you clarify the distinction?
No, I already made it. :)
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You said once something about how this forum kind of takes on a life of its own. Is that kind of like this, and is the spirit/s of this forum just shells or do they truly have a life of their own?
not an easy answer.
Think of how a tree grows - it has it's own innate spirit. It is not a shell - but it is lacking in a certain degree of awareness. Then when a tree gets old or strong, another spirit comes to live within it - the idea of multiple spirits within a being is common.
Take a human - there is a spirit who represents the 'body' aspect. There millions of smaller spirits associated with tiny aspects plus the maintenance of these. Take the shoulder rotator cuff joint - a marvel of modern engineering. that it exists twice in your body means it has an inherent spirit - these are a class of spirits, which you can research if you wish - plus there is the spirits who rejuvenate the tendons while you sleep, plus the spirits who represent the 'idea' behind the design.
But there is a spirit of your 'body' as a whole. Then comes along a very different spirit, who adds a unique consciousness to the whole of your being. This is the spirit who you would normally conceptualise as 'I', and is the spirit who leaves the body when dreaming. This is the 'tenant' spirit.
When you have a place, like a house, restaurant or an internet forum, you have the innate spirit of the place due to its agglutination - as a receptacle. This is the basic mood of a place, enhanced by the efforts to make the place have 'character'. But if the place has a 'special' quality, it can attract the spirits who associate with that quality. And some of those who are especially attracted, can become tenants, who add their energy to the whole mood.
But then there is another level of spirits - so there are some deeper secrets to a place like Soma.
None of these are really 'shells' in the sense of a 'god' who is worshipped and lavished with attention, filling it with the longings of its devotees. However, the same process does occur in a place like Soma, such that as members work through their Path processes here, and give forth energetic expressions of revealing honesty and awakening, these energies lodge in the vehicle, and thus become available to others, who are also striving on their own Path. This is also a matter of spirits.
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I've always thought that "the Christ" and "the devil" were both examples of beings who gained independent energy through the momentum of people's attributions and imputations to them. I'm re-evaluating that idea these days. Though "the devil" does come to be a catch-all concept, it seems.
They feel very different to me than "Shiva" or "Kali". But I believe what you're saying, M, about needing to be in India to have a full appreciation therein.
The "empty shell" concept is most driven home to me by 'tulpas'. I had one of those once, and I assumed he would just fade away through my own neglect. But if I tune into him, I sense that he is still about, consorting with his own kind. (In his case, centaurs.)
But this brings up another question: did I really 'create' him, or did I simply perceive him out of the flotsam and jetsam around me?
Interesting topic, Jen!
Borrowing. Ash or others can see.
There is Jesus "son of god" and then there is Jesus whom folks have fueled into a being which...on the cross like don juan said is happy there. That is not Jesus - not at all. Not what the church how do I say it - its been fueled as a guilt and oppressive spirit that loves yet will also reject to a hell - that is not the real Jesus - that I would agree with Vicki here - is a construct.
The devil in truth is that which humans can project all the blame on and it has taken on a mind of its own. Its become a thing. Now even bigger is Lucifer - the fallen angel/star. That false light was definitely created and fueled - this has doomed the judgmental christian - those who didnt really listen to his teachings fell for the spell - hook line and sinker. They were ripe for it when it showed itself. And now they are ready to war for it. But this "being" was fueled and there are even those sympathetic to it. That also is bad (Blavasky - this is why I cant bring myself to finish The Secret Doctrine). That is a construct which is incredibly dangerous.
The Jesus "son of god" or even "son of man" which I do believe is within is REAL and not a construct. When I went through the purge, I ended up at the crucifixion and went through the Mary experience. The moment where the father darkens the skies and he wants his mothers face. The true power is in that - where she kneels and sits and stays the whole time. Having to suffer the anquish of watching her sons suffering and death. But she doesnt dare break her gaze cause he needs her. So he feels the father foresakes him but the mother does not - she stays.
I had to sit through that and experience it - understand it. And i see why the knees are a thing - you see it and drop you go weak - you cant stand up. And its also so he has a better view of the face of the mother.
So no - that is no construct - that really happened. That is the thing. That is the sad thing and Ive said it before a million times if such a spirit did walk the earth - man would kill him. Thats the sad truth.
The devil gets the blame for what darkness humans do - but ultimately who is to be "guilty" of things. I have said - the devil is the prosecutor - Jesus is the defense atty.
Im aware the story of Odin or Mithras are similar. Im aware this occurence occurs - the astrological connotations of how the cross is formed and passing light saves the day defeats the darkness in the winter etc the astrological components. Yes, all true. This has been done more than once, surely. But that is not just a story. Im sure of it. If it were only a story - then you could say - the light itself would not save us. We would have nothing - no seasons - no light to come. Just a world of pure darkness so - its real. There is a false light and a real light.
My main concern is the real light - and does it matter which Lamp shines that light? Buddha? Jesus? Krishna? It does - those are true Lights. Its all connected. But just as man didnt construct the sun itself - nor did those three be constructed by man. They are the sun expressing itself and walked the earth.