Soma

Tools of the Path => Action [Public] => Topic started by: Nick on August 16, 2012, 06:49:20 PM

Title: Poetic Terrorism
Post by: Nick on August 16, 2012, 06:49:20 PM
"WEIRD DANCING IN ALL-NIGHT computer-banking lobbies. Unauthorized pyrotechnic displays. Land-art, earth-works as bizarre alien artifacts strewn in State Parks. Burglarize houses but instead of stealing, leave Poetic-Terrorist objects. Kidnap someone & make them happy. Pick someone at random & convince them they're the heir to an enormous, useless & amazing fortune--say 5000 square miles of Antarctica, or an aging circus elephant, or an orphanage in Bombay, or a collection of alchemical mss. ...
Bolt up brass commemorative plaques in places (public or private) where you have experienced a revelation or had a particularly fulfilling sexual experience, etc.
Go naked for a sign.
Organize a strike in your school or workplace on the grounds that it does not satisfy your need for indolence & spiritual beauty.
Graffiti-art loaned some grace to ugly subways & rigid public monuments--PT-art can also be created for public places: poems scrawled in courthouse lavatories, small fetishes abandoned in parks & restaurants, Xerox-art under windshield-wipers of parked cars, Big Character Slogans pasted on playground walls, anonymous letters mailed to random or chosen recipients (mail fraud), pirate radio transmissions, wet cement...
The audience reaction or aesthetic-shock produced by PT ought to be at least as strong as the emotion of terror-- powerful disgust, sexual arousal, superstitious awe, sudden intuitive breakthrough, dada-esque angst--no matter whether the PT is aimed at one person or many, no matter whether it is "signed" or anonymous, if it does not change someone's life (aside from the artist) it fails.
PT is an act in a Theater of Cruelty which has no stage, no rows of seats, no tickets & no walls. In order to work at all, PT must categorically be divorced from all conventional structures for art consumption (galleries, publications, media). Even the guerilla Situationist tactics of street theater are perhaps too well known & expected now.
An exquisite seduction carried out not only in the cause of mutual satisfaction but also as a conscious act in a deliberately beautiful life--may be the ultimate PT. The PTerrorist behaves like a confidence-trickster whose aim is not money but CHANGE.
Don't do PT for other artists, do it for people who will not realize (at least for a few moments) that what you have done is art. Avoid recognizable art-categories, avoid politics, don't stick around to argue, don't be sentimental; be ruthless, take risks, vandalize only what must be defaced, do something children will remember all their lives--but don't be spontaneous unless the PT Muse has possessed you.
Dress up. Leave a false name. Be legendary. The best PT is against the law, but don't get caught. Art as crime; crime as art.”
― Hakim Bey, TAZ: The Temporary Autonomous Zone
Title: Re: Poetic Terrorism
Post by: Michael on August 16, 2012, 09:18:50 PM
I was inspired until 'sexual arousal'. That's the most mainstream, commonplace, socially condoned, familiar backstop for the uncreative. The final thrill for those who have lost their inspiration. If all else fails in life, at least we can have sex - what a sad world we have become.

A poetic tefforist should firstly seek to become erased, not famed. Secondly, she should seek to scale the dark side - the hardest side possible. I should know because I've been one all my life. Silent sedition.
Title: Preaching change
Post by: erik on August 16, 2012, 09:40:16 PM
What's the difference between a "poetic tefforist" and any given missionary of any given religion? All they say is: "Please, change and there is a reward waiting." Some of them add: "If you don't change, there is hell waiting."

Many like to preach change ... to others

A few change - because they cannot but have to.
Title: Re: Poetic Terrorism
Post by: Michael on August 17, 2012, 09:03:40 AM
May be similar to religions, but I did like the style - you don't often get religions preaching creative acts of not-doing.
Title: Re: Preaching change
Post by: Nick on August 18, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
What's the difference between a "poetic tefforist" and any given missionary of any given religion? All they say is: "Please, change and there is a reward waiting." Some of them add: "If you don't change, there is hell waiting."

Many like to preach change ... to others

A few change - because they cannot but have to.


Take different ways of doing and ask how can I turn this into a not-doing. How can I take this outside of its box. How can I find common ground with the underlying intention of this person's message or actions.

""not so much making arguments for anarchism as "brushing information against information," giving the very words new combinations that de-familiarize and re-energize them. ""
http://www.upne.com/0819564664.html

Much of what we do affects small changes to the world we assemble. Eventually small changes become bigger...perhaps some chain reactions occur, terrorism is a chain reactions strategy. You could say we are tefforists in our own lives, what the Dadaists did with materials you could say we do with our inner universe.

"Why has the oppressed proletariat not come to its senses and joined you in your fight for world liberation? ... [Because] they know that your antiquated styles of protest – your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings – are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control…"

—Nadia C., "Your Politics Are Boring as flower"

"There is a certain litany of oppressions which most radical theories are obliged to pay homage to. Why is it when someone is asked to talk about radical politics today one inevitably refers to this same tired, old list of struggles and identities? Why are we so unimaginative politically that we cannot think outside of this 'shopping list' of oppressions?
—Saul Newman, From Bakunin to Lacan, p. 171"

Hakim bey is typically associated with post left anarchism. Anarchism has a constant drive to eradicate the status quo. Anarchism also lacks a strict ideological structure so it can, though rarely does, remain fluid, and that drive is one way it is different from typical religion. They seek a world were we govern ourselves, I also seek an inner world free from the authoritarian inner slavery imposed by the many conflicting and contradictory false "I's".

Also just because we are here on this forum does not mean don't also have to be constantly vigilant for the status quo ingrained in us.
Title: Preachers have low success rate
Post by: erik on August 18, 2012, 04:32:42 AM
Statistical success rate of tefforist organisations falls between 3 and 7% - in changing states'/organisations' policies/behaviour. It is because they try to change others.

As to the direction of changes in this world - the jury is still out on this one. While we (in the West) seem to have become less violent, we have driven this civilisation much closer to the brink by other means.
Title: Re: Preachers have low success rate
Post by: Nick on August 18, 2012, 02:54:29 PM
Statistical success rate of tefforist organisations falls between 3 and 7% - in changing states'/organisations' policies/behaviour. It is because they try to change others.

As to the direction of changes in this world - the jury is still out on this one. While we (in the West) seem to have become less violent, we have driven this civilisation much closer to the brink by other means.

Sigh...this is frustrating... you are bring literal and I'm being lateral.. re-read please.

Envision your inner world as the external world. Take different ways of doing and thinking from external sources and ask yourself how can I turn this into a not-doing to change myself.
Some ways of doing this; How can I take this outside of its box? How can I find common ground with the underlying intention of this person's message or actions?

""not so much making arguments for anarchism as "brushing information against information," giving the very words new combinations that de-familiarize and re-energize them. ""
http://www.upne.com/0819564664.html

Brushing their ideas up against your own concepts and thinking in unconventional ways.

Much of what we do affects small changes to the inner-world we assemble. Eventually small changes become bigger...perhaps some chain reactions occur, terrorism is a chain reactions strategy. You could say we are tefforists in our own inner-lives, what the Dadaists did with materials you could say we do with our inner universe.

"Why has the oppressed proletariat not come to its senses and joined you in your fight for world liberation? ... [Because] they know that your antiquated styles of protest – your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings – are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control…"

—Nadia C., "Your Politics Are Boring as flower"

"There is a certain litany of oppressions which most radical theories are obliged to pay homage to. Why is it when someone is asked to talk about radical politics today one inevitably refers to this same tired, old list of struggles and identities? Why are we so unimaginative politically that we cannot think outside of this 'shopping list' of oppressions?
—Saul Newman, From Bakunin to Lacan, p. 171"

Hakim bey is typically associated with post left anarchism. Anarchism has a constant drive to eradicate the status quo. Anarchism also lacks a strict ideological structure so it can, though rarely does, remain fluid, and that drive is one way it is different from typical religion. 

Conclusion: The conceptualization of Anarchism (perhaps Panarchism) is a useful tool for implementing in inner terrorism. In which the emotions, feelings, experiences may not be terror, but should be at least as strong as the emotion of terror.
They seek a world were we govern ourselves, I also seek an inner world free from the authoritarian inner slavery imposed by the many conflicting and contradictory false "I's".
Therefor reverse engineering their way of thinking,
taking the result of that reverse engineering, and applying it to a creative process to produce tools to utilize in your own personal life.

Also just because we are here on this forum does not mean we don't also have to be constantly vigilant for the status quo ingrained in us.
Title: Juhani if that didn't work, try this
Post by: Nick on August 18, 2012, 03:28:26 PM
"Why has the oppressed proletariat not come to its senses and joined you in your fight for world liberation? ... [Because] they know that your antiquated styles of protest – your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings – are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control…"

—Nadia C., "Your Politics Are Boring as flower"

"Why has the oppressed subconscious not come to its senses and joined you in the fight for Total Freedom?...
[Because] it knows that the antiquated covenant you've made with it - your rituals, superficial objects of power and alters, and your discussions on that Soma forum - are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. It knows that your neo-Gnostic jargon is off-putting because it has become a language of mere academic dispute not a weapon capable of undermining ingrained systems of control..."

Nai I., "Your Conflict Thinking is Boring as flower"
 
Title: Re: Poetic Terrorism
Post by: erik on August 18, 2012, 03:34:31 PM
Terrorism as a concept, as a thought that is associated with certain energy is a concept of violent failure. Do you want to use such energy in changing self? See the energy of "terrorism".

I am literal indeed, as most of the intellectual mind games have lost meaning for me. It's the energy that counts.
Title: Re: Poetic Terrorism
Post by: Nick on August 18, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
Then you're literalism has caused you to totally miss the actual point. Your words ring of stale critical-conflict based thinking that has tied your mind and I would presume energy into a knot. If your too tunnel visioned to even read and think outside the box I find it highly unlikely that you can accurately feel the energy behind my words.

Terrorism is a word, associated with whatever energy I put into, and if you don't tune into the energy I have put into then you will associated with whatever you believe.
Paranoia, a kind of fear. "The aspect of paranoia that Dalí was interested in and which helped inspire the method was the ability of the brain to perceive links between things which rationally are not linked(remember my use of the term chain reaction, chain=links) Dalí described the paranoiac-critical method as a "spontaneous method of irrational knowledge based on the critical and systematic objectivity of the associations and interpretations of delirious phenomena." What that doesn't say is that almost any intense experience will help achieve this. In this is a way that links this attention and others...


These are not intellectual mind games. But in this particular environment, Toltec nagual-isms, there are certain mental models, mind sets, and programs that have become the status quo of this world. When people can not shift their assemblage point fluidly at will, they parrot back cultural programs as excuses. Your use of "intellectual mind games" in this context is atypical of this brand of laziness. You can do better than that. In this context it is nothing more than an excuse for poor communication.

You are asserting your interpretation of what is being conveyed instead of reading what is actually there and feeling the energy behind the words. You are also using a very western form of thinking that historically derives from the classic intellectual game players the philosophers. Ironically this type of thinking was developed by philosophers to defend church dogma. You are discussing instead of dialoging. Meaning is not flowing, you are trying to give a concussion with discussion.

It is not just the energy that counts.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Michael on August 18, 2012, 08:04:00 PM
That is surprisingly articulate Nai.

Then you're literalism has caused you to totally miss the actual point. Your words ring of stale critical-conflict based thinking that has tied your mind and I would presume energy into a knot. If your too tunnel visioned to even read and think outside the box I find it highly unlikely that you can accurately feel the energy behind my words.

tefforism is a word, associated with whatever energy I put into, and if you don't tune into the energy I have put into then you will associated with whatever you believe.
Paranoia, a kind of fear. "The aspect of paranoia that Dalí was interested in and which helped inspire the method was the ability of the brain to perceive links between things which rationally are not linked(remember my use of the term chain reaction, chain=links) Dalí described the paranoiac-critical method as a "spontaneous method of irrational knowledge based on the critical and systematic objectivity of the associations and interpretations of delirious phenomena." What that doesn't say is that almost any intense experience will help achieve this. In this is a way that links this attention and others...


These are not intellectual mind games. But in this particular environment, Toltec nagual-isms, there are certain mental models, mind sets, and programs that have become the status quo of this world. When people can not shift their assemblage point fluidly at will, they parrot back cultural programs as excuses. Your use of "intellectual mind games" in this context is atypical of this brand of laziness. You can do better than that. In this context it is nothing more than an excuse for poor communication.

You are asserting your interpretation of what is being conveyed instead of reading what is actually there and feeling the energy behind the words. You are also using a very western form of thinking that historically derives from the classic intellectual game players the philosophers. Ironically this type of thinking was developed by philosophers to defend church dogma. You are discussing instead of dialoging. Meaning is not flowing, you are trying to give a concussion with discussion.

It is not just the energy that counts.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Michael on August 18, 2012, 08:16:59 PM
tefforism as a concept, as a thought that is associated with certain energy is a concept of violent failure. Do you want to use such energy in changing self? See the energy of "tefforism".

The 'energy' of the word ... that is a valid point, but precisely because it has become an inflamed word, it carries a punch which other words may not.

I see the word originally meaning 'creating terror'.
My dic says:
"a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims"
"extreme fear. the use of terror to intimidate people. Ø a cause of terror. Ø (the Terror) the period of the French Revolution when the ruling Jacobin faction ruthlessly executed anyone considered a threat to their regime."

Not-doing, as an art form, to which I see the idea belongs, certainly creates fear, even terror, in the subway crowds. But it is a subconscious terror, not conscious or capable of articulation. This comes from personal experience.

But it does not fit with the recent escalated associations with the word terror, or terrorist. I think that is accepted - since the eleventh of September, if not prior. The question is: should we allow the populist interpretation of a word to dissuade us from attempting to reclaim it in a more constructive light?

I, for one, and unhappy to surrender words to politicians with ulterior motives.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: erik on August 19, 2012, 05:00:46 PM
Nai, you like it - you work with it. Good luck and each to our own devices! The last thing I would think of were trying to persuade or covince anybody in anything.

As to giving meaning or energy to the word/concept of "terrorism". Well, "terrorism" dates back much farther than 9/11 - the word is Latin and describes  Roman warfare and policies precisely for all their 2,200 years. There are many more examples.

And yet - despite suggesting inflicting fear - it is about failure. "Failure" is a leitmotif of our civilisation. Hence the roots of "terror" and its energy go very deep -to the deepest levels subconscious.

Oh, all these idealistic anarchist terrorists who were so fiery about blowing up dignitaries...and themselves - all for the cause of freeing plebeians. They were noble, revered and feared, their eyes glimmered with determinatioan and belief in what they do... What a seductive energy there, and we know precisely where it guided this first wave of modern terrorism.

I would only say that there are energies that run much deeper than the word and the first level of immediate associations with it.

But all that is just on a sidenote.
Back to my simpleton's chores now.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nick on August 20, 2012, 02:33:23 AM
Nai, you like it - you work with it. Good luck and each to our own devices! The last thing I would think of were trying to persuade or covince anybody in anything.

As to giving meaning or energy to the word/concept of "tefforism". Well, "tefforism" dates back much farther than 9/11 - the word is Latin and describes  Roman warfare and policies precisely for all their 2,200 years. There are many more examples.

And yet - despite suggesting inflicting fear - it is about failure. "Failure" is a leitmotif of our civilisation. Hence the roots of "terror" and its energy go very deep -to the deepest levels subconscious.

Oh, all these idealistic anarchist tefforists who were so fiery about blowing up dignitaries...and themselves - all for the cause of freeing plebeians. They were noble, revered and feared, their eyes glimmered with determinatioan and belief in what they do... What a seductive energy there, and we know precisely where it guided this first wave of modern tefforism.

I would only say that there are energies that run much deeper than the word and the first level of immediate associations with it.

But all that is just on a sidenote.
Back to my simpleton's chores now.

Sigh, still no creative thinking? It would have been nice to share in some design based, creative, or lateral thinking instead of a misunderstanding.

If the history of a word went back to a civilization that existed before humans I would still say reinvent the entire meaning of the word, reappropriate it for something different and reclaim and recreate its power. Whatever understanding we already have of what has failed in the past, if we use it to limit our creative power than we are perpetuating the power of that failure. 

I saw hakim bay's work as an example of creatively reclaiming power. And you got caught up in one word of the post missing everything else. If it had been titled poetic not-doing and the word terrorism or is it tefforism, 8) had not been there, the response would have been different. Yet it would not have adequately made the same point. Hopefully someone reading this is capable of seeing it. 
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Muffin on August 20, 2012, 07:44:14 AM
What's with the word "tefforism"? It sounds silly and ridiculous.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nichi on August 20, 2012, 12:43:26 PM
What's with the word "tefforism"? It sounds silly and ridiculous.

Michael made that adjustment a few years back, to stay off the radar of the scanning US gov't (who still scans, last I heard.)
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Muffin on August 20, 2012, 03:22:54 PM
I'm sure the gov't is smarter than that. They would employ algorithms to find synonyms and similar words, much like Google does when you search something and suggests you the correct word. But more importantly, they would look for patterns indicating a codified language, rather then simple obvious words.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nichi on August 20, 2012, 04:33:40 PM
Maybe you could make some tech-suggestions or proposals to Michael about it.  The mechanics are over my head. You asked why that word - "tefforism" - and I offered the reason. It's been filtered for a long time.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Michael on August 20, 2012, 06:12:18 PM
Well, firstly, I don't consider the government to be smart. There is ample evidence out there to back up my astonishing disbelief at their continual stupidity.

Otherwise, it was a token measure to keep Soma off a simple keyword alert. To be honest, I expect a sane surveillance system to look for far more than keywords, although I have no doubt any search would begin with a keyword alert. It's no more than a hat-doffing exercise to placate the mind from bogeymen, and of bogeymen. It's our one fig leaf of decency towards the ravages of public hysteria.

But I am aware that comprehensive surveillance of all internet and phone communications is ongoing. Worse than that, face recognition systems have been installed right across the world in all security sensitive places, where location/behaviour patterns and profile details are collated and shared between governments and large corporations. Sensitive places including bus and railway stations and airports.

I am not at all comfortable with the degree of sanity these security groups possess. However that does not mean I am concerned with any discussions we have here. I know discussions of political and security issues go on constantly across the internet, and any surveillance would have to be looking for more than intelligent attitudes - if not, then most universities around the world would need to close down, to say nothing of online blogs.

Actually, that censored word is the only one we have here in Soma, but to be frank, I rather like it. It works more to remind us of the silliness of human beings, and all the idiotic things they worship.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Muffin on August 20, 2012, 07:37:41 PM
Well, firstly, I don't consider the government to be smart. There is ample evidence out there to back up my astonishing disbelief at their continual stupidity.
Politicians may be stupid, but I doubt the tech people are. So me giving tech advice would be like a monkey explaining to another how to use a sticks to beat humans.

But I am aware that comprehensive surveillance of all internet and phone communications is ongoing. Worse than that, face recognition systems have been installed right across the world in all security sensitive places, where location/behaviour patterns and profile details are collated and shared between governments and large corporations. Sensitive places including bus and railway stations and airports.

Facebook, anyone? Now the US government have a comprehensive database of ALL faces of all the humans - those who matter anyway. Before they had only a database of criminals or anyone ever taken in custody. Now, every time you tag a friend on a photo you enhance the tools that will be used to control you. It doesn't help that you don't use facebook, enough if a friend of yours tags you, and bam, you are in the system.

But I'm just a small fish in the pond, I have better things to worry about then my privacy.


Actually, that censored word is the only one we have here in Soma, but to be frank, I rather like it. It works more to remind us of the silliness of human beings, and all the idiotic things they worship.
Not to offend anyone, but I thought people used it on purpose, and all the discussions came off as silly conspiratorial theories. That's why my question.

Well, carry on... :P
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: erik on August 20, 2012, 07:39:38 PM
It works more to remind us of the silliness of human beings, and all the idiotic things they worship.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: erik on August 20, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
But I'm just a small fish in the pond, I have better things to worry about then my privacy.

Precisely, they can see and observe pretty much anything you do, except your thoughts and free will are yours and will stay as such.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Taimyr on August 20, 2012, 08:03:17 PM
I'm not too concerned about my privacy either.

As for the initial theme of this thread. I think it would consume too much energy, it seems that the enthusiasm to do something like that, would come from human part of ourselves. I belive we grow out of thiskind of enthusiasm at some point.

Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nick on August 21, 2012, 12:51:42 AM
I'm not too concerned about my privacy either.

As for the initial theme of this thread. I think it would consume too much energy, it seems that the enthusiasm to do something like that, would come from human part of ourselves. I belive we grow out of thiskind of enthusiasm at some point.


sigh, no one else got the point either. Am I really that inarticulate... Nah, I'm going to assume the concept is just beyond you guys.  :P

Our lives are not a simple binary process of accept or reject, yes or no, if accept share agreement, if reject share disagreement, where is the provocative operation, the alternate possibilities, the different ways of seeing the same thing? There was enough information in the initial post to inspire a tirade of creative possibilities for changing ourselves. There was also enough to inspire inquisitiveness, like what is a temporary autonomous zone? If you look it up, then consider if there might be an equivalent concept that is adaptable to some other condition, situation, or life style.

The 1920s-30s psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan realizing the futility of traditional methods developed a style that can fairly be described as tefforistic. His sessions with his patients, for example, were often cut short before the usual fifty minutes were up; they could last any period of time that he saw fit and were sometimes as brief as ten minutes. These sessions were quite tefforizing for the patients, who could never be sure when Lacan would end them and so were forced to concentrate and make every moment count--all of which had great therapeutic value according to Lacan. His books are written in a style to match this strategy: violent and arcane.

Understanding the terror of the situation we know what real fear and trembling mean. In this we are safe-guarded against any terror produced by outside influences. Let the bombs fall and spread terror a hundred miles around: you will remain composed in spirit.

To grasp the underlying wisdom of a strategy of tefforism you never take a shape, you keep yourself adaptable and on the move, accept the fact that nothing is for certain and no law is fixed. This is integral to erasing yourself. You are not-doing this to affect others, but you will, as their stories are tied into your life, when you change they may feel it, and it may be tefforizing. If you come close to stopping time this will tefforize the ego-mind. This is why it is advised we live like Samurai as if every moment was the last, only this brings peace. Face it being a warrior means being a tefforist in your own life.

When we fight a battle that seems as if there is no end in sight, it is crucial that we come up with completely different techniques. By constantly refreshing our mind and techniques as we continue to fight, we find an appropriate rhythm-timing with which to defeat the opponent. This is spiritual guerrilla warfare.

Every historical military strategy has a certain rhythm, and underlying wisdom that can be adapted to our personal repertoire.

Ways to employ...
Observe subtle movements of a group, watch for any underlying rhythm that the whole group seems fallowing, try make your actions go contrary to this rhythm,

Instead meditating at the same time every day, role a dice before hand and base how long your meditation will go off of that, or just start and stop meditating whenever it occurs to you to do so,

Look at the contents of your house as an art project, move and rearrange your house constantly seeking just the right aesthetic feel, when you think you've found it, enjoy it briefly and then change it again,

Learn to visualize a sensory experience so well you experience it, then visualize what it might be like if you had synesthesia, and could taste a sound,

Times to employ this strategy....
Whenever you feel most apart of a family,
Whenever you feel normal,
 
Could use it when you are bored to make things more interesting,
but then allowing yourself to be bored can be tefforizing,

When you feel like an adult who can't play silly games with a child, or like a child,
 
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Taimyr on August 21, 2012, 01:27:55 PM
So... do you apply that tefforism in your life? Just curious if you could describe some actions and results.
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nick on August 22, 2012, 10:15:22 PM
So... do you apply that tefforism in your life? Just curious if you could describe some actions and results.

Nooo, never, I don't do this kind of thing.... I do not-doing, erasing personal history, and stalking exersizes. Like when I left my Dad's house at 18, or even though I'm an introvert I made the goal of asking out as many girls as possible over a period of time, or the contrarian things I do like walking backwards, or the technique I practice for tuning into group harmonies....nope none of these fit the description....

The stalking exersize where I asked out as many girls as possible over a short period of time had the lasting affect of eliminating my timidity and shyness.

Nope no real experience here, just a thinking thinking to much... Cause you know there is a hard dividing line between thinking and doing   ::)
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Taimyr on August 22, 2012, 10:31:40 PM
Of course it's all fun and poetic and useful and...terrorising, but I just wonder how long would one continue with this. Probably as long as there is evidence of effect. So what is the real effect that you have observed?

Maybe it's like a lifestyle. You can change yourself numerous time, feel the terror and so on, but how do you know that deep down inside you have actually changed?
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Nick on August 23, 2012, 11:13:27 AM
Yes... That is the heart of it....

How do we know anything we are doing on the path is working? What is a real effect? How do you know the effect you are causing, no matter how much it seems to be what you desire, isn't causing side effects? When the side effects occur will you handle them effectively or will they be serious set backs?

Even after I under go some transcendent transition, even if everything is different, how do I know any of it is real at all?

An outsider to the warriors path would ask the same questions about why we all do what we do.

Again, it isn't about the terror it could be any intense emotion. It is also about the strategic structural back bone of tefforist strategy. Lastly it is creatively exploring possibilities. That is what I saw in the initial post.

What different ways might one employ an understanding of strategic wisdom on their path?
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Taimyr on September 05, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
It's very abstract sometimes...indescribabale, almost uncomprehendable

How do we know anything we are doing on the path is working? What is a real effect?
Title: Re: Poetic tefforism
Post by: Michael on September 05, 2012, 07:49:45 PM
How do we know anything we are doing on the path is working? What is a real effect? How do you know the effect you are causing, no matter how much it seems to be what you desire, isn't causing side effects? When the side effects occur will you handle them effectively or will they be serious set backs?

Even after I under go some transcendent transition, even if everything is different, how do I know any of it is real at all?

I slipped off this thread somewhere, but these are very good questions.

"How do we know anything we are doing on the path is working?"
Absolutely! Not only can we know? but how would we evaluate? Of course, many years on the path do lead to some clarity, but as DJ said, even that is questionable. My greatest emphasis is to keep asking the question.

But it's not a question one can easily ask of another, it is a question one can only ask another to ask of themselves. This is because for each person, what is true for their path is unique. At first we dismiss such questions, because the acolyte needs to focus on acquiring the basics - personal assessments are suspended until sufficient essential practice is acquired. Once that basic stage is passed, successfully or less so, then it's all about how we negotiate the life that flows to and from us.

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Lastly it is creatively exploring possibilities.

This is never a closed phase. The further we travel on the path, the more difficult it becomes to keep active the weight of possibility. Unfortunately, we too often believe we know, believe we have the answers, when in fact the door to possibilities is being closed precisely because of the strength of our belief.