Soma
Tools of the Path => Other Paths [Public] => Topic started by: Josh on February 07, 2007, 02:20:20 PM
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(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/5/59/Iching-hexagram-64.png)
When fire, which by nature flames upward, is above, and water, which flows downward, is below, their effects take opposite directions and remain unrelated. If we wish to achieve an effect, we must first investigate the nature of the forces in question and ascertain their proper place. If we can bring these forces to bear in the right place, they will have the desired effect and completion will be achieved. But in order to handle external forces properly, we must above all arrive at the correct standpoint ourselves, for only from this vantage can we work correctly.
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What does this mean in Engllish?
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I don't know, but I do know that we must accumulate personal power if we shall manifest our dreams. I suppose that is what Joshua gives another explanation of ... ???
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What does this mean in Engllish?
Its already written in english. You could look at it this way if you like:
x - y = 0, and x + y = z...
but only if you understand how variables work. They are similar to words that way.
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I don't know, man. I guess I have developed the habit of taking "tongue in cheek" any time the word "must" is used when dealing with relative concepts.
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You've got to have a hinge if you want it to revolve.
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Let me try.
When fire, which by nature flames upward, is above, and water, which flows downward, is below, their effects take opposite directions and remain unrelated.
"kind of obvious here"
If we wish to achieve an effect, we must first investigate the nature of the forces in question and ascertain their proper place.
"Magnets. If we wish to make them stick together we have to understand how they work. We know how to get them to stick together, but we want to do something more complicated so now we must understand WHY and HOW the forces involved with magnets work. Like Yin and Yang if we wish to use these magnet's forces we must investigate the nature of the forces in question if we wish to use them."
If we can bring these forces to bear in the right place, they will have the desired effect and completion will be achieved.
"What was the original example of fire and water? Why do they not effect each other? Who can solve the puzzle by rearranging the pieces?"
But in order to handle external forces properly, we must above all arrive at the correct standpoint ourselves, for only from this vantage can we work correctly.
"As within so without. BUT WHY is that true? Think of yourself as a car. What is the steering wheel? Have you ever really taken control of the car? --Are you in the driver's seat? -- ONLY from this vantage can we work correctly. Look at your being as a circle with a dot in the middle. The dot is this center we always talk about, but it our true center, if your there you will know it, if not you wont. The dot is like the axle, or the hinge, and the circle the wheel. When Michael talks about being able to spin I believe this is what he is talking about. I also correlate it with being able to control our folly."
"More over, do you control yourself? If so how do you know you do? Do stand before your reactions or after?"
" You have to have the right elements to make anything happen. All is relative, maybe even magical but it still is something, and that something even as nothing still consists of something that must be balanced right to make it work. You can not balance two forces without a third."
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Thank you, Ian. t
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Automation can go both ways. If you are driving down the road, but dont take hold of the steering wheel, eventually the car will crash - with all the consequences that entails.
Reflexive reactions can be like that too, especially when they run free of their origin.
It only appears more difficult in the short term to not let this happen. That appearance is deceptive. The truly easiest thing is to actually not let it happen, to let the origin remain unmanifest. The apparent continuity of momentum may indicate otherwise, but go beyond the appearance. You will find that continuity is not so continuous after all.
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I don't understand. Are you saying "all things" (energy in whatever form), enmass, are not one solid whole.
"Continuity is not continuous"?
And how can the "origin" of anything be unmanifest?
I need to learn here.
t
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I don't understand. Are you saying "all things" (energy in whatever form), enmass, are not one solid whole.
Yes, but this has been said before in many different ways by many different people. Even the most skeptical scientists will admit to you that atoms are mostly space.. with a few protons, neutrons and electrons floating about. Solidity is an illusion granted by the sense of touch. It has its uses.
One whole? Thats different, because you are going into numbers - the beginning of limitation. See below...
"Continuity is not continuous"?
It only appears unbroken due to the loss of consciousness between. It is like life and death, or just the movement of existence itself. Like a breath. It is the reason objects can be in motion instead of stuck in a static form. Energy is a vibration, an oscillation between high and low, back and forth.
And how can the "origin" of anything be unmanifest?
The source is infinite, eternal, containing all potentials and possibilities, without limitation. The moment any of those potentials arise into formation, they become temporal, limited by their own nature, and must take a due course - eventually returning to the source at some point, then out again, then in, etc. etc. The temporal arises from the eternal.
That connection is always there. Some say you must build a bridge, some say you must remember what has been forgotten, some say you must discover what is hidden in plain sight, some say you must clean that connecting link, etc. etc. That path is the path.
I need to learn here.
Perhaps... but perhaps you just need to incorporate what you have already learned into your life. Simply accumulating knowledge will get you nowhere, you must act on it. You can read books about fixing cars all day long, but you cant fix a car unless you actually get up and do it.
It is interesting that you would find yourself here in a forum such as this, amongst these people - lovers of mystery, the unknown and the unknowable... if you only wish to keep putting on the brakes. At some point, you will take that leap. The only question is: will you do it by choice, or will you wait till it is forced on you by "outside" circumstances?
Driving on the highways is much different than driving through congested city traffic. You need to change speeds, accelerate to proper levels. If you get on the highway going 15 - 20 mph trying to navigate in such a way, at best you will waste an opportunity, and at worst you will get into a serious accident. Its all about using this limited earthly time more efficiently.
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Yes, incorporation of what we learn into life. This is the hard part. If you give me time I feel I can understand mentally anything. But, putting it into practice that is the hard part.
I'm trying to take one little bit of what I have learned and devote all my time to that little bit until I master it. It used to be that I would set 20+ goals and strive for each of them simultaneously. I now know that that is part of what holds me back. So, take one little thing and master it while still leaving room for spontaneity to practice little bits of other things if the inspiration or whatever moves me.
The structured and unstructured practice. Unstructured open practice of not specifically practicing such and such technique and not specifically defining this or that practice. But instead pushing your awareness deep into the moment deep into your center and acting totally spontaneously from that place? And, the structured were you employ goal setting type techniques and your energy is utilized to achieve a specific aim and then you can monitor your achievement, and improve as you go. I think that the structured and unstructured done simultaneously compliment each other were the energy created for one is used to propel the other.
I think that taking up the driver's seat in the True Self though is the essence of all this. Everything should flow from there I suppose.
.....
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Perhaps... but perhaps you just need to incorporate what you have already learned into your life. Simply accumulating knowledge will get you nowhere, you must act on it. You can read books about fixing cars all day long, but you cant fix a car unless you actually get up and do it.
Right, t is very skilled on handcraft.
It is interesting that you would find yourself here in a forum such as this, amongst these people - lovers of mystery, the unknown and the unknowable... if you only wish to keep putting on the brakes. At some point, you will take that leap. The only question is: will you do it by choice, or will you wait till it is forced on you by "outside" circumstances?
When Life becomes the Teacher, we all know what it means. I did flunk myself, once, and therefore I want to be in the lead and dream my life without interventions from above. I suppose this is first class knowledge, or second, or at least somewhere in the books ... ?
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therefore I want to be in the lead and dream my life without interventions from above. I suppose this is first class knowledge, or second, or at least somewhere in the books ... ?
Everything should flow from there I suppose.
From above, first class, second.. take a guess. It is written in books "as above, so below".
Getting to the heart of the matter requires penetration into its essence. You can remain on the periphery if you wish, but it wont last forever - it will just repeat endlessly.
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When Life becomes the Teacher, we all know what it means. I did flunk myself, once, and therefore I want to be in the lead and dream my life without interventions from above.
Like being in control?
I've been thinking about this lately. My life used to be very simple. I liked it when i had a clear view about the things happening. But now there are many things going on, so i can't predict what's going to happen, especially in conjunction to my job. Even driving a car in the city alone makes me feel like i'm losing control over my life ;D . It's good actually, being in control is boring. Like somewhere in CC's books it was said - 'When nothing is for sure we remain alert, perennially on our toes. It is more exciting not to know which bush the rabbit is hiding behind than to behave as though we know everything'.
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Even driving a car in the city alone makes me feel like i'm losing control over my life ;D . It's good actually, being in control is boring.
You mean you dont like wearing the pants in your family, Rubina?? How surprising!! :D
The quote you mention was in the chapter that introduced "death as advisor", IIRC. Its good advice IMO as well.
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You mean you dont like wearing the pants in your family, Rubina?? How surprising!! :D
What family ? ::)
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Like being in control?
I've been thinking about this lately. My life used to be very simple. I liked it when i had a clear view about the things happening. But now there are many things going on, so i can't predict what's going to happen, especially in conjunction to my job. Even driving a car in the city alone makes me feel like i'm losing control over my life ;D . It's good actually, being in control is boring. Like somewhere in CC's books it was said - 'When nothing is for sure we remain alert, perennially on our toes. It is more exciting not to know which bush the rabbit is hiding behind than to behave as though we know everything'.
I think it should read - "Don't knowing where the rabbit pops up next time".
To be in the flow doesn't exclude control. But to be in "personal power" is a better term. We sometimes talk about Dominion compared to Domination. We do not Dominate but we have, or would like to have, Dominion.
I've seen some weird examples of control freaks, and when I get stressed by something I can go into that mode too. I got difficulties with right clothes. I cannot risk to be cold, cause the reuma disorder, and I do not want to melt away in sweat when indoors. So I have difficulties with cloths and try to get the control over the climate. (I invented global warming because it is so damn cold up here in the North) ;D.
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I think it should read - "Don't knowing where the rabbit pops up next time".
That's also how it was translated into estonian. But i found the english quote somewhere on the internet so i figured it should be correct. Would be interesting to read all CC's books in English...
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What family ? ::)
The human one.
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The human one.
I don't have that.
PS actually driving is fun, just i haven't done it much yet. I'll get used to it. Driving is quite easy, but i don't like all the accompaning stuff like parking and getting out of snowdrifts, and all the technical stuff... quite embarrassing sometimes...
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I don't have that.
Yes, you do - otherwise you wouldnt be here on this forum, typing with human fingers, speaking in human words. Sexy, sexy words... :P
... quite embarrassing sometimes...
Embarrassing? Thats about as human as you can get, btw.
Dont worry, I still want to give you :-*
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(I invented global warming because it is so damn cold up here in the North) ;D.
Ohhhh, so you were the one! :D
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Yes, you do - otherwise you wouldnt be here on this forum, typing with human fingers, speaking in human words. Sexy, sexy words...
You too have human fingers and use human words, can't escape that.
Embarrassing? Thats about as human as you can get, btw.
I know ;), usually i don't get embarrassed. but after trying to get out of a snowdrift for about 20 min and when i then discover i had the handbrake on, i did feel a bit stupid :P if human then human, i don't mind anymore.
Dont worry, I still want to give you :-*
I'm not worried ...
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You too have human fingers and use human words, can't escape that.
I never claimed to. That was your side. Dont let your fantasy get the better of you. Twist it all you want, sooner or later it will break.
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what will break? fantasy? what fantasy?
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you work so hard, you follow the true path, you hold your tongue, you carry your forebearance willingly, and with grace. you watch your step, you pause, you push, you hold, you let go. Now you are very close, almost there.
this is the moment just before...
but there is one last trap, you old fox.
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It is interesting that you would find yourself here in a forum such as this, amongst these people - lovers of mystery, the unknown and the unknowable... if you only wish to keep putting on the brakes. At some point, you will take that leap. The only question is: will you do it by choice, or will you wait till it is forced on you by "outside" circumstances?
I've been meaning to ask about you feel I am putting on the brakes. I'm quite slow so help me out here, OK? t
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t there is a kind of another dimension to all of this ... Baba J has been there (long ago)
me too
you're close - I know.
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Just wondering. If others see me differently than I appear to myself I want to know about it, that's all. Always room for improvement/adjustment. Thanks. t
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you work so hard, you follow the true path, you hold your tongue, you carry your forebearance willingly, and with grace. you watch your step, you pause, you push, you hold, you let go. Now you are very close, almost there.
this is the moment just before...
but there is one last trap, you old fox.
....
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Just wondering. If others see me differently than I appear to myself I want to know about it, that's all. Always room for improvement/adjustment. Thanks. t
I do not think it is about improvement or adjustment. There is nothing for you or us to do in that area. Joshua may explain what he meant - I can only tell what I see.
You are a good, steady as a rock, and a well apreciated guest in my house tommy. Of the twelve disciples I would say that you are like S:t Peter, the disciple that according to Christ should build the church, the church in the sense of organizing the people that wanted to be followers. Your hands are much of your connection to Spirit, and your great life experience too. You have really gone through it all and your personal power have provided you with a great woman and companion.
I think Joshua point in another direction than what you have mastered, but I have forgotten the direction, the post and the message ...
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How about Judas?
'...you, Judas, will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.'
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I don't know, Jahn, how great I am but I DO know that it is great that I do not want anything, unless you call appreciating what I have, "wanting".
And what do I "have"? A steady fire within me.
I know what I am, and constantly look for what others are.
It is most important for me in this current lifetime to help others, in maybe just the smallest way, to find what they are.
I have nothing else to do.
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And I am glad of this union with us all here.
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I've been meaning to ask about you feel I am putting on the brakes. I'm quite slow so help me out here, OK? t
We are all slow when it comes to the kriya of existence. All things in due time. The point at which time itself becomes more malleable for us (through our own wish) is a great boon, and an indespensible part of the path with heart.
You may or may not remember a discussion in the CC books where they talk about "compressing time". In that a sorcerer lives and acts that much more by doing so. It is only through this practice that effort beyond the cycle of life and death can be made. It is extracurricular effort.
The brakes I speak of are built into this cycle. It is part of the process. There is a "natural" resistance to making the definitive leap into timelessness... which the body regards as death, and rightly so. Its not something that has to just happen once and then you are done with it, back into the regular daily routine. It needs to be done over and over - so the force of time within your life can loosen from the moorings of its "natural" cycle.
The reason for those quotes is that this path itself is somewhat against nature. It is against the forces which use man as just another cog in a giant cosmic machine. It is of a rarer nature in terms of this particular planet at this particular point in history. There are forces which will support this activity as well, and aid this endeavor - but even these have an economy.
The brakes themselves are legion and masquerade as part of you. However, it is not a neccessary part - and in the case of the path, it is to be dealt with as such. Ideas, feelings, emotions, images, desires, stories, etc. etc. can all serve this same purpose. It is that root purpose that is the issue at hand, not the multitudinous manifestations of its manipulation.
In general, you wont encounter these kinds of brakes until they are being put to use.. as in, before the leap is about to happen. You are on that edge. Recognition of their nature is key.
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And I am glad of this union with us all here.
:-*
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Iching-hexagram-64.png)
Foxtail dangling in water
Sculling paddles drawing near
Ways to go, we're not there yet
In three years the kingdom won
Good things come to those who wait
Wet hair plastered to your head
Before Completion. Success.
But if the little fox, after nearly completing the crossing,
Gets his tail in the water,
There is nothing that would further.
Fire over water:
The image of the condition before transition.
Thus the superior man is careful
In the differentiation of things,
So that each finds its place.
In hexagram 64 we realize that seeing the end of something can make one hasten and not watch their step, just as being at the beginning of something can make one look to the end and not watch where they are going. Things need to be done in correct order to succeed.
The image combined with the traditional title suggests that by not getting things in proper order (sequence), the successful completion of tasks is difficult and we thus need to set-out some sort of path/plan.
In a positive vain the hexagram also manifests keeping oneself 'open' as long as possible, avoiding closure recognising the emphasis on dependencies and so a lack of 'completeness' in that completion is an illusion.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Iching-hexagram-64.png)
The conditions are difficult. The task is great and full of responsibility. It is
nothing less than that of leading the world out of confusion back to order.
But it is a task that promises success, because there is a goal that can unite the
forces now tending in different directions. At first, however, one must move
warily, like an old fox walking over ice. The caution of a fox walking over ice
is proverbial in China. His ears are constantly alert to the cracking of the ice,
as he carefully and circumspectly searches out the safest spots. A young fox
who as yet has not acquired this caution goes ahead boldly, and it may happen
that he falls in and gets his tail wet when he is almost across the water. Then
of course his effort has been all in vain. Accordingly, in times "before
completion," deliberation and caution are the prerequisites of success.