Soma
Tools of the Path => Christ [Public] => Topic started by: Nick on June 26, 2014, 12:06:20 PM
-
Chapter 4
(Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)
. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.
24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?
26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.
27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.
28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.
29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.
30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.
31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.
32) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
33) When the Blessed One had said this, He greeted them all,saying, Peace be with you. Receive my peace unto yourselves.
34) Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
35) Follow after Him!
36) Those who seek Him will find Him.
37) Go then and preach the gospel of the Kingdom.
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
39) When He said this He departed.
http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm
Chapter 9
1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.
2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.
3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.
4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?
5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?
6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.
7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.
8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.
9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.
10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.
-
Very believable, these attitudes of the disciples. They are probably ultimately behind the developing mythology of the Church's, that Magdalene was a prostitute. Too bad that ... and too bad that so little survives of her 'Gospel', in the gnostic literature found.
-
Thats very interesting and its no wonder it was rejected by the church to say there is no sin implies no 'original' sin which is the crux of the argument for needing a savior in the first place. It twists it a bit then, what is the purpose of a savior then according to the Gnostics?
-
Very believable, these attitudes of the disciples. They are probably ultimately behind the developing mythology of the Church's, that Magdalene was a prostitute. Too bad that ... and too bad that so little survives of her 'Gospel', in the gnostic literature found.
Mary from Magdala was at such a house - but she never "got into it".
Tomorrow, I can tell a story about the guy who saved her, after Jesus died.
Mary Magdalene had a far out event and "he" found her, and took care of her.
-
I think the church did not too far off, retract the old story Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. That has been abandoned.
-
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
This is in line with the "book",
26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.
That is in line with the Toltec teachings, the sin you ever can make, is a sin toward your self. Jesus says "There is no sin" - meaning in the eye of God.
-
Mary Magdalene, the clichés
http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?action=post;topic=13131.0;num_replies=4
Mary Magdalene's story is intimately linked with Jesus. She plays a starring role in one of the most powerful and important scenes in the Gospels.
Mary kneels semi-naked in the wilderness praying Maria Magdalena, by Honoré Daumier (1808-1879) ©
When Jesus is crucified by the Romans, Mary Magdalene was there supporting him in his final terrifying moments and mourning his death. She also discovers the empty tomb, and she's a witness to the resurrection. She was there at the beginning of a movement that was going to transform the West.
But the Mary Magdalene that lives in our memories is quite different. In art, she's often semi-naked, or an isolated hermit repenting for her sins in the wilderness: an outcast. Her primary link with Jesus is as the woman washing and anointing his feet. But we know her best as a prostitute.
The whole story of Mary as a prostitute, who is fallen and redeemed, is a very powerful image of redemption a signal that no matter how low one has fallen, one can be redeemed.
Powerful as this image may be, it is not the story of Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene is mentioned in each of the four gospels in the New Testament, but not once does it mention that she was a prostitute or a sinner. At some point Mary Magdalene became confused with two other women in the Bible: Mary, the sister of Martha, and the unnamed sinner from Luke's gospel (7:36-50) both of whom wash Jesus' feet with their hair. In the 6th Century, Pope Gregory the Great made this assumption official by declaring in a sermon that these three characters were actually the same person: Mary Magdalene, repentant saint. The Catholic Church did later declare that Mary Magdalene was not the penitent sinner, but this was not until 1969. After so long the reputation still lingers.
Mary Magdalene is considered a saint by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Lutheran churches with a feast day of 22nd July. The Eastern Orthodox churches also commemorate her on the Sunday of the Myrrhbearers which is the second Sunday after Pascha (Easter). She is also an important figure in the Bahá'í faith.
Susan Haskins and Belinda Sykes discussed Mary's journey from sinner to saint on Woman's Hour.
Top
Mary of Magdala
Although we know something about Jewish society in ancient Palestine 2,000 years ago, we know very little about Mary herself. The Bible provides no personal details of her age, status or family.
Her name, Mary Magdalene, gives us the first real clue about her. It suggests that she came from a town called Magdala. There is a place today called Magdala, 120 miles north of Jerusalem on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. We do know there was also an ancient place called Magdala from literature. The name occurs in the New Testament, and also in Jewish texts. Its full name is Magdala Tarichaea. Magdala seems to mean tower, and Tarichaea means salted fish. If the name of the town was Tower of Salted Fish, it's no surprise that its main business was fishing. As a woman living in Magdala, Mary may have worked in the fish markets.
Middle Eastern landscape with sparse grass and trees, ancient buildings and people in traditional dress sitting in the foreground Magdala, taken circa 1890-1900 ©
One Jewish text which mentions Magdala, called Lamentations Raba, says is that Magdala is judged by God and destroyed because of its fornication. It is possible that the description of Magdala as a place of fornication is the origin of the idea that arose in western Christianity that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.
We know there were brothels elsewhere in the Mediterranean, and Galilee was probably no exception. It was part of the Roman Empire, which placed a heavy tax burden on families, and often women paid the heaviest price.
The Roman conquest, and then Roman imperial rule, would have made quite a dramatic impact on Galilee. Economically it would have brought the people greater and greater tax burdens, and that would have put pressure on families.
When tax burdens were at their worst and a family could no longer pay off its debts, children were sometimes given up as slaves. Perhaps this was Mary Magdalene's fate.
With such a tough background, it's not hard to imagine that Mary might have been a prostitute, but this evidence is purely circumstantial. However, her name, Mary of Magdala, could suggest something else altogether: she was unmarried. A married woman would have carried her husband's name and Mary didn't.
There is nothing in the limited amount of material we have about Mary in the Gospel traditions that suggests she is married, she's never described as being a widow and she not said to have any children.
2,000 years ago an unmarried woman was viewed with suspicion. Perhaps this isolated Mary, but it wouldn't fully account for her negative image.
Top
Mary, the outsider
Mary Magdalene, depicted as a fair-skinned woman with long hair and wearing red, holds a hand to her chest, seeming lost in thought Penitent Magdalene by El Greco, painted 1585-90 ©
Could anything else in Mary's life have made her an outcast? The Gospel of Luke tells us that Jesus cast seven demons out of Mary. (Luke 8:2)
Jesus was known as an exorcist. In all of the gospels, one of the principal things he is doing in his campaign for a renewal of Israel is exorcism. The exorcisms and healings probably go together with the teaching and preaching that the kingdom of God is at hand.
At that time, people believed that the demons possessed people who had done something wrong, and deserved to be possessed, whereas good, virtuous people were protected from demon possession.
Whatever the cause of her possession, Mary's exorcism is the catalyst which makes her sign up with the Jesus movement. The message that Jesus is said to have preached seems to have particular appeal for people who are in the margins of society. Luke chapter 8, tells us that Mary was one of Jesus' followers and travelled with him.
Top
Apocryphal texts
But the Bible isn't the only source. In 1945 at Nag Hammadi, in southern Egypt, two men came across a sealed ceramic jar. Inside, they discovered a hoard of ancient papyrus books. Although they never received as much public attention as the Dead Sea Scrolls, these actually turn out to be much more important for writing the history of early Christianity. They are a cache of Christian texts.
The Nag Hammadi texts tell us about early Christians. They were written in Coptic, the language of early Christian Egypt. As most ancient Christian texts have been lost, this discovery was exceptional.
The discovery includes the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip and the Acts of Peter. None of these texts were included in the Bible, because the content didn't conform to Christian doctrine, and they're referred to as apocryphal. They tend to concentrate on things that one doesn't read about in the Bible. For example, New Testament gospels report that after the resurrection Jesus spent some time talking with the disciples, but you don't learn much about what he said. In the gospels of Nag Hammadi you can read what he said.
Mary and Mary Magdalene (bottom right) cuddling baby Jesus, who has a hand on Mary Magdalene's head Mary, baby Jesus and Mary Magdalene, detail from a 1527-28 painting by Correggio ©
Although they're not Biblical texts, experts still believe that they give us significant insights into Christian history. In these apocryphal texts we might have genuine traditions about Jesus that for one reason or another didn't make it into the New Testament.
For the first time in hundreds of years there was a new source of information about Mary Magdalene. She appears very frequently as one of the prominent disciples of Jesus. In certain texts where Jesus is in discussion with his disciples, Mary Magdalene asks many informed questions. Whereas the other disciples at times seem confused, she is the one who understands.
One of the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi is the Gospel of Philip, in which Mary Magdalene is a key figure. It has been the cause of one of the most controversial claims ever made about her.
During their long burial in the desert, some of the books were attacked by ants. In this Gospel, the ants made a hole in a very crucial place. The text says:
And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her [...]. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."
Gospel of Philip
The lacuna, or gap, which hides where Jesus kissed Mary has tantalised scholars for decades.
Top
Were Jesus and Mary lovers?
Some scholars have interpreted the kiss in a more spiritual sense and see kissing as a symbol for an intimate reception of teaching of the word of God, of learning. The image of Jesus and Mary as engaged in mouth-to-mouth closeness suggests not necessarily sexuality, but the transmission of divine knowledge.
Mary Magdalene, depicted as a fair-skinned woman with long hair and wearing red. She is holding a cross and a skull and has her free hand clasped to her chest. She is looking up at a beam of light from an unseen source The Penitent Magdalene by Guido Reni (1575-1642) ©
Mary Magdalene appears in this text also not only as the disciple he loved most but also as a symbolic figure of heavenly wisdom. These stories of Mary - as Jesus' closest companion and a symbol of heavenly wisdom - are in sharp contrast with the Mary Magdalene of popular imagination.
"Apocryphal" took on very negative connotations, especially in comparison to the Bible. It often means that it's not to be read, not to be taken seriously, not to be considered, not true. The contents of these books are regarded by many people as legends. So can we believe the Gospel of Philip? Was Mary really Jesus' closest companion? Well, there is other evidence for this, and some of it is even in the Bible itself.
Top
Mary's biggest moment
The Bible says that Mary Magdalene was present at the two most important moments in the story of Jesus: the crucifixion and the resurrection. Mary Magdalene was a prominent figure at both these events.
We're told that Mary Magdalene was one of the women who kept vigil at Jesus' tomb. It was customary at this time for Jewish women to prepare bodies for burial. Corpses were considered unclean, and so it was always a woman's task to handle them.
When Mary goes to the tomb, Jesus' body is no longer there. The fullest account of Mary's role after discovering the empty tomb is in the Gospel of John. She is in a state of shock and runs to where the disciples are gathered to tell them the news. When she reports to the disciples she is not believed. Peter and another disciple return with her to the tomb, to see for themselves.
When they enter, Peter reacts to the sight of the discarded linen burial cloth with anger and dismay. But the other disciple understands what has happened and concludes that Jesus must have risen from the dead.
The two of them leave without a backward glance at Mary.
Then, something even more extraordinary happens. It is Mary Magdalene's biggest moment.
Mary is alone when someone asks her why she's crying. She believes it's the gardener, and says, "they have taken my lord's body and I do not know where it is". The figure says her name. And then she sees Jesus. She is overwhelmed and says "Master!" and goes forward to reach out to him, but he stops her. He says "don't touch me". Instead, she must go to the others and tell them that he has risen from the dead. It's an awesome moment. Jesus stands before her, yet he's beyond her reach.
Mary Magdalene kneels before Jesus, who is standing in front of her wearing a shroud. She has her hand drawn back as if afraid to touch him and Jesus is holding a hand out to stop her coming any closer Noli me tangere (Don't touch me), Correggio, circa 1518 ©
We cannot say if Jesus really stood before her resurrected, or if Mary simply believed she had seen him. But either way, in this one moment, Mary's experience took the movement in an important new direction.
A new concept developed, which had nothing to with what Jesus himself was preaching, and this is the concept that Jesus didn't die - or he did but he was raised from the dead. The movement is not a failure. It is in fact a great success. The person who declares this is Mary Magdalene.
Jesus' resurrection was the turning point for Christianity. This was when it changed from a small movement to a whole new religion. And Mary Magdalene was a key figure in this event.
You might think, then, that at the very least Mary would be recognised as an apostle - one of the early missionaries who founded the religion - as she seems to meet all the criteria set out in the Bible.
Top
The Gospel of Mary
The reason why she is not perhaps lies in another long lost apocryphal text. In a Cairo bazaar in 1896, a German scholar happened to come across a curious papyrus book. Bound in leather and written in Coptic, this was the Gospel of Mary.
Like the books found at Nag Hammadi, the Gospel according to Mary Magdalene is also considered an apocryphal text. The story it contains begins some time after the resurrection. The disciples have just had a vision of Jesus.
Jesus has encouraged his disciples to go out and preach his teachings to the world, but they are afraid to do so because he was killed for it, and they say "if they killed him, they are going to kill us too". It's Mary who steps forward and says: don't be worried, he promised he would be with us to protect us. It says she turns their hearts toward the good and they begin to discuss the words of the Saviour.
In texts like the Gospel of Philip, Mary was presented as a symbol of wisdom. However in the Gospel of Mary, she is the one in charge, telling the disciples about Jesus' teachings.
Mary, depicted as an old woman with her hair wrapped in a scarf, is looking down at a skull with her hands clasped, seeming deep in prayer Magdalena in Meditation by Jan Lievens ©
At this point Peter asks Mary to tell them some things that she might have heard, but which the other disciples haven't. She says "Yes, I will tell you what has been hidden from you". She talks about a vision she had of Jesus and a conversation that she had with him. As the Gospel tells it, Mary then relates the details of this conversation, which is to do with spiritual development and the soul's lifelong battle with evil.
At this point controversy arises, and Andrew steps in and says "well, I don't know what the rest of you think, but these things seem very strange to me, and it seems that she's telling us teachings that are different from the Saviour." Peter then chimes in and he says, "Are we supposed to now all turn around and listen to her? Would Jesus have spoken privately with a woman rather than openly to us? Did he prefer her to us?"
Matthew defends Mary and quells Peter's attack on her. In the text, Peter's problem seems to be that Jesus selected Mary above the other disciples to interpret his teachings. Peter sees Mary as a rival for the leadership of the group itself.
Peter need not have feared. Most people think of Peter as the rock upon which the church was established. He is the main or major disciple figure, and Mary Magdalene is a kind of side figure in the cast of characters.
One of the absolutely fascinating things about the Gospel of Mary is it really asks us to rethink that story about Christian history: did all the disciples get it? Did they really understand and preach the truth?
Perhaps the Gospel of Mary was just too radical. It presents Mary as a teacher and spiritual guide to the other disciples. She's not just a disciple; she's the apostle to the apostles.
-
22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.
23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.
This falls in line what Buddhism says about the connectedness and interdependence of all things.
-
Thats very interesting and its no wonder it was rejected by the church to say there is no sin implies no 'original' sin which is the crux of the argument for needing a savior in the first place. It twists it a bit then, what is the purpose of a savior then according to the Gnostics?
For those on a spiritual path, when you are expected to put in some effort to progress, the Christian approach, with a "Saviour" and ""we forget your sins each other Sunday" is not the best approach. But one has to look deeper into what Jesus and John manifested.
-
Fancifully, I do like the idea of Mary being the "apostle to the apostles".
-
The Gnostics had a different view of Jesus. Most did not acknowledge whether they thought of him as divine or not. With other Christians moving toward a portrait of Christ as absolutely nessisarily for your salvation, the Gnostics took the opposite road. Jesus was their great teacher, but it seems they choose not to discuss his divinity or not, in most cases. Further the Gnostic gospels emphasis that if you believe that you have to go through some externalized source for your salvation, then you will not be saved. Sure it's one thing to have a guide, or a teacher, it is dangerous to believe you can not be enlightened with out that guide.
The Catholics say that the Gnostic gospels where excluded from the Bible because they don't fit e way a Jewish rabbi from that time would have talked. Yet, Jesus was not your run of the mill Jewish teacher, he was a rebel in many ways.
Still for me what matters is that whoever wrote the Gnostic gospels, had a deep understanding of spiritual truth. Jesus or not, they are of signifigant value.
-
That falls in line with what Buddha said on his deathbed, that we need to save ourselves.
-
By ourselves is evil done,
By ourselves we pain endure,
By ourselves we cease from wrong,
By ourselves become we pure.
No one saves us but ourselves.
No one can and no one may.
We ourselves must walk the path:
Buddhas only show the way.
-
Further the Gnostic gospels emphasis that if you believe that you have to go through some externalized source for your salvation, then you will not be saved. Sure it's one thing to have a guide, or a teacher, it is dangerous to believe you can not be enlightened with out that guide.
This idea is what I've always understood to be the reason the Gnostic gospels were frowned upon by the Church. If no intermediary is necessary, that surely would have put the Church out of business. Furthermore, even in the 20th century, direct reading of the Bible was not emphasized in the Church -- at least not as of the 60's/70's. (So many things have changed .. this may have too, I don't know.) My husband went through Catholic school, from elementary to high school, and never once in his religion classes were they assigned scriptural reading. It was all catechism and monk-lectures. Much deliberation on the Saints. This omission to me also contributes to the sense that one cannot be self-sufficient.
On the other hand, a guide when on the Path does seem prudent: though I'm not speaking of religion here.
-
Surely a guide is needed. Let me restate what I mean. No good guide is going to tell you that you can not do anything with out his grace. That you have to go to his church every sunday or you can not progress. That you have to believe in him and believe what he believes, or you will not get anywhere.
Don't know about the Catholics, though I do recall being in a Catholic church when they read directly from scripture. Still other Christians read directly from scripture, and have even emphasized the Bible as the only authority on what to believe about god. To them the bible is the Truth. They still accept no view outside of their own.
You see the whole thing can be very suffocating, very deadening to ones individuality. To your ability to think for yourself.
-
You see the whole thing can be very suffocating, very deadening to ones individuality. To your ability to think for yourself.
Definitely.
-
i disagree
also i can state my appreciation differs
in that when jesus told peter he heard what was of his father
he was alluding to the spirit manifesting the lesson directly to him
directly into the world
as spirit alive within the world
present also as real as this dream also
i seem to see the metaphor more often than the reality of
the scene as a worldly event as the two are intimately connected
the spirit that is
is spoken as that "light"
which presents before us as that story is being written within the world
for those who have eyes to see
in this i cannot say whether or perhaps that it is of more importance that jesus
existed
nor that the female form of mary magdalene was of more importance to the making
of the tale as it occured in natural connected "truth"
to be stumbled upon on the measure of those interactions truth
to me although this may indeed exist both "wholy" as this actually
what is presented really
both sides in alignment
as both mary and christ
father
son
holy spirit
trinity
to me that is my humble seeing of that
when also the root become engaged through that spirit
something about that too
if i were you though :) which of course i am not
i would take what was said in this paragraph as absolute truth
"Matthew
h When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi* he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14
i They replied, “Some say John the Baptist,* others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16
* j Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood* has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
k And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
l I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.* Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
20
* m Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Messiah."
manifest
try and wrap a brain around that
loosing what of heaven upon earth
of spirit
"directly"
manifest !
I am afraid gender equality is of more importance within that union
that inequality :)
i also have nor read the gnostic bible
-
remember was it nagual julian ? running along the stream side whilst his body was
within the water bobbing around ?
now the two merged , living ,
engaging the root as spirit return to eath
means the virgin or the prostitute
equally yield
as above so below
yet the ascension requiring innocense
or as is postured by totec through " mimick"
and awareness of " the perfect replica" given to eagle
as spirit "making"
-
the coming upon the "horse"
now the magdalene for me is the spirit
the water and clear mirror
imagine being sandwiched between two mirrors somehow now move within the images
of their appearances with the power of the "father light"
and appear where ?
-
what is presented really
both sides in alignment
as both mary and christ
father
son
holy spirit
trinity
to me that is my humble seeing of that
when also the root become engaged through that spirit
Gospel of Thomas
...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.
I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." Verse 22.
-
The Catholics say that the Gnostic gospels where excluded from the Bible because they don't fit e way a Jewish rabbi from that time would have talked. Yet, Jesus was not your run of the mill Jewish teacher, he was a rebel in many ways. .
A rebel!? Do you know what he called the Jewish Pharisees?
He called them the "Generation of Vipers".
And his group of disciples and near persons, they pooled their resources (like commies tend to do) to travel around for three years in what we now call Israel. Like a circus where Jesus and his "message" was the main attraction. It was a hype going on in Israel by the time, The Jews waited for the Messiah and as we all know, they still wait for him.
Jesus was about 27 or 28 when he started his teachings and he got crucified at the age of 30 or 31.
Now how come that Jesus was so skilled in what we call the Old Testament?
This was because Jesus and John (the baptist) studied the scriptures along with the Essenes
(a member of an ancient Jewish ascetic sect of the 2nd century bc –2nd century ad in Palestine, who lived in highly organized groups and held property in common. The Essenes are widely regarded as the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls.)
Even Jesus mother Mary was a participant of the Essenes.
-
i know the living god
and i am sure if you did not keep that secret under wraps
when placed in that position :)
it would be a circus
however
in todays present situation
such forthcoming without the pre arrangement and fastening to/of
earlier scripture would not have presented an opportunity such as that one
i only do wan't to say
have no illusions about the "father s" power
of the light of the whole world
and the sons ability to use it as being that light also
-
i know the living god
and i am sure if you did not keep that secret under wraps
when placed in that position :)
it would be a circus
however
in todays present situation
such forthcoming without the pre arrangement and fastening to/of
earlier scripture would not have presented an opportunity such as that one
i only do wan't to say
have no illusions about the "father s" power
of the light of the whole world
and the sons ability to use it as being that light also
It is good to hear that you have confidence in your God,
but please, can you translate your post into ordinary English.
What I said was that the period when Jesus and his disciples traveled around and told the message of the prophet, it was like a circus (from town to town).
-
38) Do not lay down any rules beyond what I appointed you, and do not give a law like the lawgiver lest you be constrained by it.
39) When He said this He departed.
Number 38 is a sentence that dismiss such a phenomena as the Catholic churce.
-
10
Andrew responded addressing the brothers and sisters,
"Say what you will about the things she said, but I do not believe that the Saviour said these things, for indeed these teachings are strange ideas."
Peter responded, bringing up similar concerns. He questioned them about the Saviour:
"Did he then, speak with a woman in private without our knowing about it? Are we to turn around and listen to her? Did he choose her over us?"
Then Mary wept and said to Peter, "My brother Peter, what are you imagining? Do you think that I have thought up these things by myself in my heart or that I am telling lies about the Saviour?"
Levi answered, speaking to Peter [Peter who denied Jesus three times- my comment]
"Peter, you have always been a wrathful person. Now I see you contending against the woman like the Adversaries. For if the Saviour made her worth, who are you then for your part to reject her?"
page 17
Read more in "The Gospel of Mary of Magdala - Jesus and the first woman apostle" by Karen L King.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Gospel-Mary-Magdala-Apostle/dp/0944344585 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Gospel-Mary-Magdala-Apostle/dp/0944344585)
This is a rich, rewarding, and eyeopening review of how the only gospel written in the name of a woman can reveal the depth and diversity of the early Christian community. Strongly recommended
--Library Journal
Best faith books of 2003 ... accessible and fascinating ... This book will have special appeal to those interested in history and whose devotion to the New Testament has them searching for a deeper understanding of the origins of Christian scripture.
St. Louis Post Dispatch
-
faith in my god ?
i assure thats not as it seems
i do get swept away in trying to describe
however no matter how much so it will definitely be understated
the walls seem to be in translation yes and applying it to
the words as symbols
there fore the onlooker and speaker will miss each other
translating to ordinary english jahn i don't know what you mean
i am not like you all i am like me
-
i have just been given a bible to have a look at :)
-
i am not like you all i am like me
Just so you know, you are totally accepted for you here runningstream. I am enjoying your posts. :)
-
This book about the Gospel of Mary from Magdala is very interesting in many ways.
First the interpretation of when it was written and then how it differs from the other "traditional" gospels. It seems that the gospel of Mark is the "most original" of the four in the Bible (my favorite).
The oral tradition these years had a greater impact than written books. People could not read or write so those that put down the stories to papyrys is our heros, but not the heros of the ancient time.
It seems like there were 19 apostles, 12 men and 7 women of which Maria from Magdala was held as number one by "The Savior". It is therefore she gets additional information, and that she has this unique position is in line with her evolvement.
Now this is something that Peter cannot accept and therefore the debate.
"We know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of women" G Mary 6:1
Did (the Savior), speak with a woman in private without our knowing about it? Are we to turn around and listen to her? Did he choose her over us?" G Mary 10:3-4.
However, even more interesting is the use of some central concepts. Mary M do not use the traditional "Kingdom" when referring to Heaven, instead she talks about "Realm" or "Divine realm". This probably because there is a preference for Spiritual freedom rather than Royal domination.
The "Son of Man" is exchanged with "child of true Humanity" and there is also references to "true Human beings". This is in line with the Toltec Teachings.
-
I don't understand one thing. Why is it called Gospel of Mary if Mary is being talked about in this text. I'ts someone esle describing her and other disciples, so it must have been someone else who wrote it?
-
That is a big question with all gospels. My understanding is that none of the gospels were written by the people they were named after. I think the usual view is that the knowledge was handed down orally, until someone finally put it to writing. Thus there were different 'stories' passed down, which would have undergone a lot of modification. Then there is a big field of identifying which were addins and which were more original.
-
Maybe this Gospel of Mary was written at a later time, which is the reason why it wasn't added to the Bible.
-
They were all written at a later time Taimi, but that has nothing to do with their inclusion in the bible. There was and remains a huge debate about which gospels became canonical.
There are layers of gospels, as there are of any religious texts anywhere in the world - some more or less accepted that others.
Personally, I think they are mostly crap, because they include such a shallow layer of information for anyone serious about knowledge. But the Christian gospels are more about faith than knowledge. There are many references to insights, as there are in all the Abrahamic scriptures, and for someone who has been able to progress on the path, some of these insights are appropriate, and even useful. But in the main, they are all about swaying us on the basis of emotion and faith (which means believing without knowing why).
By all means trawl through these texts, and find some helpful insights, but if you think to use them as a basis of the journey into truth, you will be deluded.
-
Bible is not some basis for me, it's clear that it can only provide bits of information.
-
michael i wouldnt say they were crap. i can certainly admire the influence jesus has had over the world yes im aware of the campaign, and many might not believe if it were not for it. but i think, while i agree the gospels arent written about knowledge, they are revealing how to have a direct relationship with god. the old testament showed what is likened to awar god. jesus showed the people a different side, a god who loved mankind so much hed sacrifice his son. when the sky turns dark, when jesus ison the cross, he was not forsaken in as much as god couldnt bear to look anymore at his suffering. the story, tells how one could directly have relationship with god. i do agree this would be based on faith.
-
I don't understand one thing. Why is it called Gospel of Mary if Mary is being talked about in this text. I'ts someone esle describing her and other disciples, so it must have been someone else who wrote it?
All Gospel is written by someone else (than the apostel).
There is more Gospels, like the Gospel of Judas and Thomas.
-
Maybe this Gospel of Mary was written at a later time, which is the reason why it wasn't added to the Bible.
No, I don't think so. The Gospel of Mary was too hot stuff, and the "men" had decided otherwise, her Gospel did not fit in in their mission.
-
As I told my atheistic son today, one has to distinguish between a teological and exegetic discussion about this gospel here and that idea there. People might have found confidence in the Gospels, people might have found peace in them. Their relgious experience is not to be discussed, their experineces are good, nevertheless the history.
What we discuss, and question might be "the whole story".
Why they (the bad guys) make Jesus divine with delimiting stuff as being born by a virgin, being the Son of God and so on.
As a bonus: There is i valid theory why he "survived" the crucifiction.
In the Old testament it is said that not a hair, nor bone would be xxxx on Messiah.
At the crucifiction, when the crucified had done his last sigh, it was most common that the Romans slaughtered the legs of the victim.
But that they never did with Jesus. Instead the throw a sword into his belly (and water or something waterlike ran out). So by that exception it is a chance that he was not completely dead when they took him of the cross. And he could recover in the grave that was offered by a donater to the Essene community.
-
How can you be sure of this? It might as well have been written by someone who read the already written texts.
No, I don't think so. The Gospel of Mary was too hot stuff, and the "men" had decided otherwise, her Gospel did not fit in in their mission.
-
seeing how other forms of the same story exist throughout history pre dating
christianity "christ" bc
i think it is important to see that it is " the eagle" which manifests the story itself
as a pattern
witness - able upon the "heavens" - stars
and also upon the "earth"
both of them
as with these patterns they are able to be come across
archetypally and as forming throughout history
i will even add "spiritually" we must also consider the idea that
these forms as individual manifestations re occurr
-
How can you be sure of this? It might as well have been written by someone who read the already written texts.
Ask me.