Soma

Tools of the Path => Death [Public] => Topic started by: Michael on October 04, 2007, 01:09:03 PM

Title: Death
Post by: Michael on October 04, 2007, 01:09:03 PM
let’s begin by stating that Death by its definitive and palpably obvious position in the array of experiences presented to us, is not subject to secure explanations. It is Mystery itself.

Some choose to use this, to dismiss any attempt to understand or prepare for it. I am not one of those. You are welcome to be one of those without any criticism from me. I will however put my approach in the most effective way I am able.

My approach has been to study every version of clarification or insight that I have been able to find. Since DJ dropped the idea of its significance into my plastic mind, I have grasped it with relish. I would appreciate it if anyone with references or information about people or schools who have covered this topic - place it in this Board, so that everyone can continue to cross check their own preparations and working templates.

I am going to present my digested versions now - this is my current working template, gleaned from many sources, and accorded weight due to my best assessments.

I prefer to approach death with a map. I am not wedded to the map, but I prefer to have some preparation rather than none, while always ready to either rearrange the map, or toss it completely. This map is built from both my own personal experiences plus the thoughts and experiences of others revealed to me along my way.

there are two deaths. Death of the Soul, and Death of the Body. I only use these terms to distinguish, not to be definitive about the concepts death, soul or body. Take them as symbolic headings only, and yet real events.

Death of the Soul.

I may cover this later in more detail, but I have already posted an extract about the Portal of Death (http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=2036.msg16086#msg16086) with which this deals. What I mean by soul here is our ‘view of the world’, which runs very deep in our consciousness and subconsciousness. I am not referring to the actual astral vehicle, which I also call soul in a different context - its death would mean death of the body, so that will come later under that section.

Death of the Soul, means ‘die before you die’. face death before it is your allotted time. learn, discover, what death really means to you as the person who has not been properly ‘touched by death’. this is all about saying goodbye to everything. this is the emotional death.

it is also the death of our identity, our heritage, our family, our nation, our species. this is the end of all our ambitions, our expectations, our fears, our desires. the end of what it means for us to be human. the rejection of the ‘human form’.

it does require its own separate section. but enough for now to know that you can’t really pass through the Death of the Soul, unless your body is facing death. and it can’t be a quick event - it has to be dwelt on over a reasonable period of time, so that the layers have time to shrivel and drop away.

Death of the Body.

The bodies:

Our being is made up of numerous ‘vehicles’. not centres, but shells. I will cover the main ones:

The body. this is the physical vehicle - touch it: our experience built around senses and pain.

The etheric body. some call it the energy body, although that is a term used differently in different contexts. in this case it is the pure physical energy that vitalises out physical being, and is approximately the same size and shape - slightly larger in more energetic people, and extending many feet out in highly formidably people, though that is quite rare.

The astral body. some call our sentient being. a mysterious vehicle, which in daily world is our emotional life. in our sleep it is how we experience the dream world. it is picture oriented, but feeling sensitive and manipulated. it can be of varying size, from smaller than the physical body, to vast and in the case of Manus, will in itself be worlds. it is best seen when the person is not physically in front of you - just quickly think of someone, and feel them in an instant - that is seeing their astral body. best experienced immediately after a person physically leaves your presence, just as the details of the interaction fall away, and their vibe remains.

The casual body. not a body at all, but we add it in here for placeholder reference. in fact it is the absence of any vehicle. properly speaking it is a point of perception. however it does have around it a ‘mist’ of quality, out of which our future experiences evolve. thus it is the final reduction of past experiences, into an essence which then ‘causes’ our future experiences. the only difficulty with that explanation is the issue of time, which doesn’t exist in this area - so let’s just use it in the knowledge of the limitations of our language shaped comprehensions.

Some also call the astral body the casual body, and there is some truth in that, as ‘causes’ come down through the bodies. emotions in the astral body create effects in the ‘contents’ of the body, which if not balanced, are carried back to the source on death and then enter the ‘shell’ of the body as a structural flaw in the new life being built. However, for my current purposes, I prefer to call the causal body the 3rd attention or 3rd world aspect of our being, whereas the astral is the 2nd attention.

The Process of Death:

I am only going to talk about the ‘normal’ process. Accidents and clever tricks are a separate issue.

Death begins about the age of 25. Picture an arrow being shot at an angle into the air - watch it’s trajectory. From leaving the string, it is pure upward force. Then comes a point where its upward force begins to decline for the first time - in trajectory we see this as the arrow continuing to go higher, but at a declining velocity - it also begins to curve away from the straight upward line. Until all upward force is exhausted, where a peak point is reached and the arrow then turns downward.

From the moment of birth, we are pure outward force - all our etheric energy is directed out into the world, into life. During this phase, the knowledge of death is absent, except in hybinating seed, so there is no visceral awareness inherent in us of death. Until we reach 25, the point where the arrow first begins to taper in its trajectory. The knowledge of death first awakens in our etheric body.

We reach the peak of our trajectory about the ages 27 to 31, depending on the quantity of etheric energy we were born with. From that point we level off an slowly decline - the core of our being is called back to its source. Around the age of 57 onwards, a process of reflection on our life begins, which intensifies the older we get. This is about the ‘unravelling’ process, which is what the post death period is all about, but we begin it towards the end of life, by reminiscing and talking about our past - recalling our salad days. Older people spend a lot of time reviewing, and retelling about their past - who they were, who they knew, and things that happened ‘back when’. This is a good process, as it prepares for the post death tasks, unfortunately it is rarely done well, such that people dwell on only a few highlights which they get stuck on, instead of a systematic recapitulation - a releasing of the energy stored in our memories.

Physical death:

the moment of ‘death’ is critical. we spend our lives preparing for this. death is the most clear touch of Spirit, the being at the core of the universe, that comes to everyone. at that point, a vortex opens, as does with birth and conception - seen clearly these are also ‘deaths’. these are essentially dramatic changes of states. at such points we have the best opportunity to grasp the essence of Spirit. but herein lies a problem.

do you really know what is happening now around you, in your own life? are you really aware of the true significance of your present situation as you read this? have you ever asked yourself, especially in dramatic circumstances, “What is really happening here?” instead of only what appears to be happening. if it is so difficult to penetrate to the truth of any situation, how do you expect to see the truth of what is happening at death? only a life time of clearing away your own delusions and filters, will help you at that moment.

at any point of death - the death of any of our bodies, the change of any state, and identity - the moment you leave a job you have done for many years, leave a relationship, or begin a new job, a new house, a new relationship - at these points a precious opportunity opens to us. the Tibetan Buddhists talk of the ‘light’. This is the difference between the eye and the beak of the Eagle. The idea is that at that moment, by the audacious leap into the highest point of awareness, we merge with the eagle, and its awareness, instead of being consumed, which happens by being dragged asleep into the beak. this moment, this opportunity, this concept is the ultimate audacity, and it should be the one you prepare for all your life. It entails absolute non-resistance, absolute lack of tardiness, absolute readiness, and absolute daring. all our jumping at our work boss’s commands, is in preparation for jumping into full awareness at the moment of death - quite possibly the least expected moment. think about it.

Etheric death:

after the death of the physical body, the etheric body survives for about 3 days - some say for as long as you can go without water. the etheric body is the storehouse of our physical life’s journey - its impulses and memories. during this time, as well as before and after, but primarily at this time, we unravel this storehouse. We relive our physical life, and release all the energy stored in the etheric body out into the cosmos. it passes before our point of perception as it drifts away from us. it doesn’t take long, as time is intensified, and because compared with our life’s astral journey, very little happened to the physical. it is our emotional world that consumes most of our attention, not the physical.

this is about why many old cultures will not burn ar bury a body before the 3 days are up, and this process has completed naturally.

Astral death:

after the etheric body is released from its physical shell, it exhausts its energy, and then releases the astral body - the silver cord is broken, and the astral body floats off without its anchor. then begins the rather long journey of the astral body sans physical and etheric. over time the astral body drifts further and further away from it’s earlier life’s ‘location’. passes through many phases, about which you can read in some esoteric texts.

one of the primary tasks during this time is to unravel our dream storehouse of memories/energy. we relive our dreams. this means we relive our identity. in contacting the dead, you will at first see images of them very similar to how they were before they died - if they were sick, it will take them some time to unravel and work through all the ‘fixations’ or ‘identifications’ associated with the experiences of sickness or old age. after some time, perhaps many years, you will have dreams or visions of them as the younger person you knew them from earlier times, as they pass through those phases themselves. also as your own unravelling of your own astral connections progresses.

this phase is intimately connected with the solar system, the ‘being’ in which we cycle.

as ‘astral’ time passes, we journey into finer and finer reaches of the astral. This can either take a very long time, for those who spent a lot of time during life pondering the finer things - metaphysics, artistic and spiritual knowledge etc. Or a very short time if you were a pretty basic sort of person who just liked sex, food and TV.

once every grain from our astral body’s storehouse has been released into the cosmos, and we have thoroughly relived it all, plus explored what was potential and prepared in that world, our astral body dies. this is what esotefforists call the second death (not what I call the second death).

Causal world:

Then we are released into a world of pure spirit, retaining only the most absolute refined and distilled essential ‘flavour’ of our previous life. how long we remain there depends, but for most, a very short time, before the cycle begins again, and our ‘flavour’ attracts to it particles of unaware and aware matter. like a magnet, we pull to us the items we have stored a sympathetic energy for, in our ‘flavour’ - what DJ called our ‘that which remains’.

part of this pulling to us is our purpose in the next cycle, our friends, our talents, our ‘beam’. for an aware person, it becomes a task in this life, to begin this process of seeding our next cycle - right here. We are already doing it unconsciously, so it is not too big a jump to do it consciously.

that is a very brief summary.
Title: Death of a Warrior
Post by: Michael on October 04, 2007, 09:45:08 PM
I want to describe some different deaths - the previous was the backdrop, structure of our condition.

The death of a warrior:

A warrior lives by the Code. this may look like a code of Iron, but it’s not. It is the code of Poetry.

A warrior lives the life of a poem. She rejects the mundane, rejects the rational, rejects the secure. She longs to stand in the wind atop the mountain.

A warrior lives in Song. Dies in Song.

you who read this here have within you the warrior. when a warrior dies, a song is waiting. This song cuts like a razor blade into the our heart, and steals our soul. we are given to it like a mouse to a hawk.

on passing the gates on death, we each have our song, and it waits like a hawk, like a taxi, like a lover, like a flower.

away on its melody we are carried into the consummation of heroes.

what song is waiting for you? let me tell you.

think back to a time when in an unguarded moment, you heard music that stole your heart. may only have been a few bars, a few notes. usually not on a good stereo, but on the street. music that cut right through you. that is your song - and if you are lucky there may be more than one.

if you can’t recall, then work on it - every warrior has a song.

why? because music comes from our deepest being.

I will tell you of two of mine:
once when I was standing in line at the passport counter in Indonesia, Sumatra - a mouldy crappy place - I heard from an old cassette player the sound of guitar. I asked who it was - Mick Bloomfield! they said. Well I’ve never heard it since, and I know his music. But whatever, it carried me away.

next was the main one - across the lake, after my encounter with death, one morning I heard the most beautiful singing. so light, so sad, so free.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Jennifer- on October 04, 2007, 10:04:41 PM
Please continue this thread Michael, you are such a blessing to us all.

The loon song strikes me so deep within, tears swell within my eyes and my heart expands to dance across the surface of the water to join them.
Title: Re: Death of a Warrior
Post by: Taimi on October 05, 2007, 12:50:44 AM
think back to a time when in an unguarded moment, you heard music that stole your heart. may only have been a few bars, a few notes. usually not on a good stereo, but on the street. music that cut right through you. that is your song - and if you are lucky there may be more than one.

The first one that popped into my mind was a song at the end of a movie called "La Femme Nikita" It's about a women who was a drug addict. She was caught by some organisation that trained her to be an assassin. To her mother it was declared that she died and actually they would have killed her if she had refused to cooperate. In the end she gets away from this system and in the final cadre she walks away into the mist while this song is playing.

I haven't been able to find out who's the artist.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Angela on October 05, 2007, 01:54:08 AM
I was eleven years old, and I couldn't figure out why everyone else wanted to go outside and watch fireworks, as I lay on my parents livingroom floor feeling the vibrations of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.  In my teens, I was fortunate to hear it performed by the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra at a concert in the park series, conducted by Erich Kunzel...something like this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzMGzBKRttU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkS9THHjp38&mode=related&search=


When I was pregnant with my son, I used to hold head phones across my tummy and to this day I still sometimes hum one in his ear as he falls asleep that became very special... Pachelbel's Canon in D.  I was playing the violin Baroque version this morning, and my son said, "wow mom, I love that ...what is it?"...he just turned 9. :)  I ran across another version that made me smile...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yflWG-e38OU&mode=related&search=


A
Title: Re: Death of a Warrior
Post by: Taimi on October 05, 2007, 02:23:40 AM
I tried to search more. Later this film was also remade in English. It was called "The Point of No Return". I thought maybe this song was at the end of this movie.  I still didn't find it. But i found an interesting poem by The Phantom of the Opera...


DON JUAN (PHANTOM)
You have come here
in pursuit of
your deepest urge,
in pursuit of
that wish,
which till now
has been silent,
silent . . .

I have brought you,
that our passions
may fuse and merge -
in your mind
you've already
succumbed to me
dropped all defences
completely succumbed to me -
now you are here with me:
no second thoughts,
you've decided,
decided . . .

Past the point
of no return -
no backward glances:
the games we've played
till now are at
an end . . .
Past all thought
of "if" or "when" -
no use resisting:
abandon thought,
and let the dream
descend . . .

What raging fire
shall flood the soul?
What rich desire
unlocks its door?
What sweet seduction
lies before
us . . .?

Past the point
of no return,
the final threshold -
what warm,
unspoken secrets
will we learn?
Beyond the point
of no return . . .

AMINTA (CHRISTINE)
You have brought me
to that moment
where words run dry,
to that moment
where speech
disappears
into silence,
silence . . .

I have come here,
hardly knowing
the reason why . . .
In my mind,
I've already
imagined our
bodies entwining
defenceless and silent -
and now I am
here with you:
no second thoughts,


I've decided,
decided . . .

Past the point
of no return -
no going back now:
our passion-play
has now, at last,
begun . . .
Past all thought
of right or wrong -
one final question:
how long should we
two wait, before
we're one . . .?

When will the blood
begin to race
the sleeping bud
burst into bloom?
When will the flames,
at last, consume
us . . .?

BOTH
Past the point
of no return
the final threshold -
the bridge
is crossed, so stand
and watch it burn . . .
We've passed the point
of no return . . .

 

The first one that popped into my mind was a song at the end of a movie called "La Femme Nikita" It's about a women who was a drug addict. She was caught by some organisation that trained her to be an assassin. To her mother it was declared that she died and actually they would have killed her if she had refused to cooperate. In the end she gets away from this system and in the final cadre she walks away into the mist while this song is playing.

I haven't been able to find out who's the artist.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Taimi on October 05, 2007, 02:30:19 AM
Oh My God! - I found it!
Title: Re: Death
Post by: erismoksha on October 05, 2007, 04:22:01 AM
Couldnt find the lyrics online, so have to deal with snips of stargate for the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsNaFoT65Hw
Title: Re: Death
Post by: daphne on October 05, 2007, 05:10:49 AM
I don't have a particular song.. what i have is a particular sound, or rather, sequence of sounds, and whenever I hear them, the sounds goes right through and into me. I am always 'surprised' when I hear them, (they are part of most different kinds of music). Always brings me to a halt and a deep breath..
Title: Re: Death
Post by: nichi on October 05, 2007, 06:21:42 AM
There are 3 cuts on the men's secrets side of the Vortex cd ... yes! I've played them over and over again... I've gone through one portable cd player and wrecked the cd player on one of the boomboxes playing these, over and over again. I'm not even sure of the names of the cuts or the artists ... the disc box is buried in one of my unpacked bags. My roommate fished out the discs, though, upon my return from california--- they are in the "good" cd player, and the men's side is playing now...

One is a vocal, in another language, sounds like he is singing phonetically, "berlinnn, berlinnnn..."
The other 2 are consecutive on the disc 2/3rds through -- very modal, repetitive, instrumental, haunting.

These until the next song appears...

I always fancied that I would hear a birdsong upon the moment of death. Had a vision, once, that CC heard one of the grackle's songs as he died  and that he was disturbed about that. (Grain of salt and all that...)
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Zamurito on October 05, 2007, 11:02:47 AM

let’s begin by stating that Death by its definitive and palpably obvious position in the array of experiences presented to us, is not subject to secure explanations. It is Mystery itself.

Death may be Mystery Itself,

but, I'd like to add a few comments...

Some words I wrote many years ago after watching Death dance across a mans eyes after I snuffed the life from him with my bare hands:

"...Death occurs always in a here/now environment. Death is never related to our ideas of the future, present and past. Nor is it to our idea of here and there. Death, as an energetic phenomenon, compresses all of our five measuring units into one. The energetic shock brought about by this is of such magnitude that our life force is dissolved, unable to keep our energetic fields together anymore. Such is death as we know it, proven by the fact that, in spite of all our wishful thinking, the dead never return. We are composed by such a huge amount of energetic fields that the probabilities for them to reunite again to form the exact same combination, the exact same being, amidst an infinite number of other possibilities, are simply and plainly inexistent.
Therefore, it could be said that the phenomenon of Death is, in itself, a proposition to find a new continuity, related to its mystery and that of life.
This continuity begins with acquiescing to the notion of a force that binds everything in the universe. A third, impersonal force that allows us as individuals to develop awareness. This binding force, the force of life, is Intent."  <snips the rest>

I suppose it's due to the programs I'm dealing with at the moment that lead my attention to this narrow minded view of Michael's wonderful post; focusing only on the physical death.  This reminds me of an old western movie which title I'm can't remember at the moment.  A vague quote:  "When you kill a man, you take away all he ever was, and all he'll ever be."

Let us use Michael's marvelous post to truly emphasize  Death as 'Mystery Itself,' and again use this phenomenon of Death as a proposition to find a new continuity related to this mystery, And that of Life.

z

PS  The Warrior's Song.

I can't comment on this at this time. 

Title: Re: Death
Post by: erismoksha on October 05, 2007, 11:10:09 AM
I know we're supposed to focus on death, I understand the spiritual implications as to why, im not dense. I admit, western thought isnt too big on death. I think really, while other biases are there about westerners putting people in old folks homes, personally I believe all cultures treat the aging and dying like shit. With the exception of a few places who may not. Either cause of the innate fear of death, or greed (paying to keep someone alive they dont want to), and so forth.

I know even Buddha taught this about death, needing to focus on it, its supposed to be able to ground us, in the here and now, and the choices we make in the here and now, are to make preparation for our own death, an easier transition. However, I do wonder if focusing too much on death, can make you morbid, too. Whats the point in living if you're always focused on death and dying, and that transition. There's still plenty of things to 'do' in this life, while living. Should still be able to enjoy whatever bit of youth there is to enjoy, left, even if its relatively short. I dunno, everytime I see the word 'death' and people discussing it, I automatically want to move onto something else.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: nichi on October 05, 2007, 03:23:51 PM
For me, these are going concerns. I feel like I've spent the last 7 years wanting to learn how to die well, to die right, to die in a way I can reach for infinity, with awareness in tact.   The interest is what drew me to renewed readings in toltec a few years ago...

So, to make a long story short, I'm delighted Micahel is sharing his wisdom on it. Looking forward to all of it, with great relish.

Title: Re: Death
Post by: Jennifer- on October 05, 2007, 08:16:31 PM
Quote
So, to make a long story short, I'm delighted Micahel is sharing his wisdom on it. Looking forward to all of it, with great relish.

Me too.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Jennifer- on October 05, 2007, 08:25:28 PM
Quote
Some choose to use this, to dismiss any attempt to understand or prepare for it. I am not one of those. You are welcome to be one of those without any criticism from me.


 
Quote
I prefer to approach death with a map. I am not wedded to the map, but I prefer to have some preparation rather than none, while always ready to either rearrange the map, or toss it completely. This map is built from both my own personal experiences plus the thoughts and experiences of others revealed to me along my way.

Quote
Then we are released into a world of pure spirit, retaining only the most absolute refined and distilled essential ‘flavour’ of our previous life. how long we remain there depends, but for most, a very short time, before the cycle begins again, and our ‘flavour’ attracts to it particles of unaware and aware matter. like a magnet, we pull to us the items we have stored a sympathetic energy for, in our ‘flavour’ - what DJ called our ‘that which remains’.

part of this pulling to us is our purpose in the next cycle, our friends, our talents, our ‘beam’. for an aware person, it becomes a task in this life, to begin this process of seeding our next cycle - right here. We are already doing it unconsciously, so it is not too big a jump to do it consciously.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: erik on October 07, 2007, 04:17:55 AM
Relevant?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gpu/index.htm
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Michael on October 07, 2007, 11:54:57 AM
that's interesting Juhani.
A lot of reading there - I might print it out, as I wasn't aware of that purana.
Title: Re: Death: romancing death
Post by: Nick on October 07, 2007, 06:27:56 PM
Only song I can think of was something I heard when I was high and walking the streets of Hollywood. I was going in and out of random shops on the street. In one I found all kinds of Oriental knick knacks, of cats and buddhas, and Daoist Immortals, and then some music struck me. I was carried away into its world. Don't know what song it was though and can barely remember it's tune now. Of course I was high as hell! Music has that effect when you're high. This seemed different, but I don't know for certain that it was "my song".
Or should I say "our song".
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Taimi on October 07, 2007, 10:48:09 PM
This songs title is Happy Birthday To You.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AhOmpNbxMf8 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AhOmpNbxMf8)
Title: Death of a Mystic
Post by: Michael on October 13, 2007, 09:30:21 PM
First, I am using the term Mystic in my own specific meaning. I apply it to those who have acquired the double, who have employed the super-sensorable world as an integrated working aspect of their sensorable world. Who operate on ‘both’ levels.

These are people who have mastered the second task of the path. The first task is the security and health of the physical body - karmic facts excluded. That means all that the physical implies - our physical world, its primary milestones of food, shelter, and security, in all that those words signify in their widest terminology.

I am not saying such a person does not go through physical calamities of financial, health and relationship. That’s the road - we can’t ask for comfort. I am saying they have built within themselves the readiness, the competence and the willingness to adapt to all and every situation that confronts them. Failure is allowed, but not on an inner level of potent capacity. We can suffer profound disaffection with the physical world, but that is part of the second task. The first task is creating a competent machine of survival in every condition we could possibly meet - how we use that machine is an aspect of our second task, the task of the soul.

The Mystic has mastered the task of the soul. This means she has found balance in her sentience. The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune now find her a formidable opponent to overthrow. Again, not without vulnerabilities, but past a definite threshold, such that each time you meet her, you are likely to meet a consistency palpable beneath the surface fluctuations of a fertile personality.

A Mystic however has also mastered one highly critical faculty: she has activated the double. How is that done? Unfortunately this is not the place to go into that, but it is the subject of considerable bewilderment. My personal experience has demonstrated that it is commensurate with our astral self recognising our physical self, to the point where it takes an active role in the life and journey of that physical self.

The double is a being of astounding qualities. Every creature has an astral component - an inorganic being. Aware creatures, like humans and animals, but also very old trees etc, have a special type of inorganic being. Each human has an astral self, which becomes the primary vehicle of awareness after death. The Mystic uses the same vehicle, but with one fantastic difference. The double, an astral self, has a quality of awareness that is significantly different to the ordinary person. It has ‘self-directing’ faculties and powers.

Look clearly at what this means. The ordinary person’s astral body is predicate. It’s entire existence is conditional, on the life of the physical emotions during life, and on their unwinding, of stored memory, after life. It is a puppet on the strings of external influences - it has minimal free will. It’s existence proceeds according to law, to the command of associations, and extinguishes on the exhaustion of those associations. The double however, is an astral being who has acquired agency. And there you have it, in a nutshell.

Agency means it is no longer a predicate. It is an active instigator in its own right. It still comes under the law, but it comes under a different law - the law of awareness. It also extinguishes, but instead of through the exhaustion of stored associations, it has the ability to create new associations, such that it exhausts on its deeper layers of energy. In theory, it could live, comparative to the physical, forever. But there are deeper laws of evolution, that will inevitably come knocking.

The double creates new associations, because it has an active awareness, that can seek out new experiences, un-predicated on life’s associations. I expect there will always remain some threads back to those associations, so it is very wise, as a Mystic, to taste and scan the widest possible array of sensations possible, on both an outer and inner dimension. Much could be said about that process.

On death, the Mystic’s double catches The Sultan's Turret in a Noose of Light. And carries it away on a melody of fantastic possibilities - contained only by the imagination.

Such is the prize of those who have mastered the second task, and who have secured for themselves the death of a Mystic - the Vehicle of Adventure!
Title: A different kind of Death
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2007, 10:09:07 PM
There is another type of person, who dies in a very different way. I call these ‘of the line of Manu’.

Manu is the title given to a being of great power, who initiates a new race or sub-race. We all belong to specific Manus, who projenated our vehicle, and our soul. When we die, we fold back into the Manu. You will just need to read up on Manus to know why I like this phrase.

This type of person has no name that I am aware of, so I’ll just call them the children of Manu. Each in their own way, create an aura that suspends in astral for a long time, after they have died.

lets say they have a way of creating a huge mansion that friends can live in - a time machine.

During such a person’s life, they build the depth and volume of their aura, such that when they die, it forms a home in space, astral space. Think of it like a great cloud of warmth and love, that you can lie in, and go to sleep. That is what we all do in some way - we die and go to sleep in the vast astral glow of a being, till we rise up again, and strike forth out into the wilderness again.

So some people build a small version of this, but it is the same principle. In death they transform into their aura, and vivify it. This is an advance on the Warrior’s Song. This is a collaboration of a great Song and a realisation of what can be achieved with our own effort. Imagine it like a mythical land, where many friends meet up, and settle down for the quiet years.

Everyone does it - you who have pets will understand how this works. We all spin our aura. Just that some have a stick of dynamite to launch there’s. And they die like great ships in the sky. Many find refuge in their soul, even during life.
Title: Re: Death (Manu)
Post by: Jennifer- on December 17, 2007, 02:40:52 AM
In Hinduism, Manu is a title accorded the progenitor of humankind, first king to rule this earth, who saves mankind from the universal flood. He is honest which is why he is called "Satyavrata", or oath of truth. INFO: 'Manu' name is just like name of prophet Noah or prophet Nuh a.s in Abrahamic religion,he is the great man who build the Ark to save man from the great flood.

Mahabharata says: "And Manu was endued with great wisdom and devoted to virtue. And he became the progenitor of a line. And in Manu's race have been born all human beings, who have, therefore, been called Manavas. And it is of Manu that all men including Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, and others have been descended, and are, therefore, all called Manavas. Subsequently, O monarch, the Brahmanas became united with the Kshatriyas. And those sons of Manu that were Brahmanas devoted themselves to the study of the Vedas. "The ten sons of Manu are known as Vena, Dhrishnu, Narishyan, Nabhaga, Ikshvaku, Karusha, Saryati, the eighth, a daughter named Ila, Prishadhru the ninth, and Nabhagarishta, the tenth. They all betook themselves to the practices of Kshatriyas. Besides these, Manu had fifty other sons on Earth. But we heard that they all perished, quarrelling with one another."[1]

14 Manus of Śveta Vārāha Kalpa

Each Manu rules during an eon called a Manvantara. Puranas ascribe to each Manvantara one Indra, one Vishnu avatara, etc.[2] 14 Manvantaras make up a Kalpa, a period corresponding to a day in the life of Brahma. 14 Manus of the present Śveta Vārāha Kalpa are:

   1. Svayambhuva Manu
   2. Svarocisa Manu
   3. Auttami or Uttama Manu
   4. Tamasa Manu
   5. Raivata Manu
   6. Caksusa Manu
   7. S`raddhadeva Manu (son of Vaivasvata) [3]
   8. Savarni Manu
   9. Daksa Savarni Manu
  10. Brahma Savarni Manu
  11. Dharma Savarni Manu
  12. Rudra Savarni Manu
  13. Raucya or Deva Savarni Manu
  14. Bhauta or Indra Savarni Manu

Currently we are in the 7th Manvantara headed by Sraddhadeva (Vaivasvata) Manu.

The Matsya avatara of Vishnu is said to have appeared to King Manu (whose original name was Satyavrata, the then King of Dravida[4]), while he washed his hands in a river. The little fish asked the king to save it, and kept growing bigger and bigger. It also informed the King of a huge flood which would occur soon. The King builds a huge boat, which houses his family, 9 types of seeds, and animals to repopulate the earth.

This story is very similar to other deluge stories in ancient Sumerian mythology which preceded the story of Noah's ark.

Works ascribed to Manu

According to tradition, Manava Grihyasutra, Manava Sulbasutra and Manava Dharmashastra (Manusmriti) texts are ascribed to Manu (Sayambhuva). Manusmriti is considered by some Hindus to be the law laid down for Hindus. At the same time it is a smriti, so whenever there is a conflict between what is mentioned in it and that mentioned in sruti (Vedas and Upanishads) the latter is considered to be correct.

In theosophy

In Theosophy, the Manu is regarded as the progenitor of the Aryan root race, who are said to have originated in Atlantis.

<Wiki Source>
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Jennifer- on December 17, 2007, 02:42:22 AM
Cont. from Wiki search...

Hindu units of measurement
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The astronomical time cycles mentioned in ancient Hindu astronomical and Puranic texts are remarkably similar to each other. Old Indian measures are still in use today, primarily for religious purposes in Hinduism and Jainism. They also are employed in the teachings of Surat Shabda Yoga.

The Hindu cosmological time cycles are described in verses 11–23 of Chapter 1, Surya Siddhanta [1]:

"(Verse 11). That which begins with respirations (prāna) is called real; that which begins with atoms(truti) is unreal. Six respirations make a vinādi, sixty of these a nādi. (12). And sixty nādis make a sidereal day and night. Of thirty of these sidereal days is composed a month; a civil (sāvana) month consists of as many sunrises. (13). A lunar month, of as many lunar days (tithi); a solar (sāura) month is determined by the entrance of the sun into a sign of the zodiac; twelve months make a year. This is called a day of the gods. (14). The day and night of the gods and of the demons are mutually opposed to one another. Six times sixty of them are a year of the gods, and likewise of the demons. (15). Twelve thousand of these divine years are denominated a Quadruple Age(caturyuga); of ten thousand times four hundred and thirty-two solar years (16) is composed that Quadruple Age(caturyuga), with its dawn and twilight. The difference of the Golden (krtayuga) and the other Ages (yugas), as measured by the difference in the number of the feet of Virtue in each, is as follows : (17). The tenth part of a (Quadruple) Age (caturyuga), multiplied successively by four, three, two, and one, gives the length of the Golden (krta) and the other yugas: the sixth part of each belongs to its dawn and twilight. (18). One and seventy caturyugas make a Patriarchate (manvantara or Patriarchal Age of one manu); at its end is a twilight which has the number of years of a Golden Age (krtayuga), and which is a deluge (pralaya). (19). In an Aeon (kalpa) are reckoned fourteen such Patriarchs (manus) with their respective twilights; at the commencement of the Aeon (kalpa) is a fifteenth dawn, having the length of a Golden Age (krtayuga).(20). The kalpa, thus composed of a thousand caturyugas, and which brings about the destruction of all that exist (bhoo), is a day of Brahma; his night is of the same length. (21). His extreme age is a hundred, according to this valuation of a day and a night. The half of his life is past; of the remainder, this is the first kalpa. (22). And of this kalpa, six Patriarchs (manus) are past, with their respective twilights; and of the Patriarch Manu son of Vivasvant, twenty-seven Ages (caturyugas) are past; (23). Of the present, the twenty-eighth, Age (caturyuga), this Golden Age (krtayuga) is past; from this point,reckoning up the time, one should compute together the whole number."
Title: Re: Death (The Laws of Manu)
Post by: Jennifer- on December 17, 2007, 02:45:25 AM
The Laws of Manu
George Bühler, translator
(Sacred Books of the East, Volume 25)
Chapter I
Chapter II
Chapter III
Chapter IV
Chapter V
Chapter VI
Chapter VII
Chapter VIII
Chapter IX
Chapter X
Chapter XI
Chapter XII

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm)

<<I just opened the first chapter and it looks to be, well worth reading for many reasons.. enjoy>>
Title: Re: A different kind of Death
Post by: daphne on December 17, 2007, 08:56:59 PM

During such a person’s life, they build the depth and volume of their aura, such that when they die, it forms a home in space, astral space. Think of it like a great cloud of warmth and love, that you can lie in, and go to sleep. That is what we all do in some way - we die and go to sleep in the vast astral glow of a being, till we rise up again, and strike forth out into the wilderness again.


nine years ago, i had an expereince that your words reminded me off. At the time, I was going through some 'heart pain'. One night, while lying in bed, I was aware that the 'pain' I was feeling was way too much in proportion to it's occurance. I couldn't turn it off though..  I suddenly felt myself rising out of my body (was rather 'literal') and enveloped in this "warm loving cloud that held me". It was a strange sensation that I had not experienced before. It felt "outside" of me, very much so, and also sentient; very much so too. I lay like this for some time, and fell asleep.
The next night it happened again, though the pain i had felt the previous night was not there, so I wasn't sure what 'triggered' it, other than I wanted to know if it had been "real", my expereince. And it had. Again, I sensed this sentient warm loving 'puff' cloud enveloping me, holding me as I fell asleep. 
I always wondered about that. It very definately felt "external" to "me", something that perhaps had been a memory but not one that I could recall.
Since then though, it is something I can 'bring back', though not with the same intensity as then. Was almost like getting a taste of something..

What impressed me though, was this sense of 'sentience', that the 'love' was sentient, and was there (where ever 'there' was)
Title: Re: Death
Post by: erik on December 19, 2007, 12:42:45 AM
Manu is also mentioned here: http://www.anandgholap.net/Man_Whence_How_And_Whither-CWL.htm
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Michael on December 19, 2007, 07:34:16 AM
That is a very interesting book, which I have recommended before as a way to shift one's concepts of who we are. But it is a big task to read - I doubt I could read it on screen myself. Unfortunately it is not a cheap book to buy new.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Jennifer- on December 19, 2007, 11:02:20 AM
Manu is also mentioned here: http://www.anandgholap.net/Man_Whence_How_And_Whither-CWL.htm

Thank you E
Title: Re: Death
Post by: erik on December 21, 2007, 08:56:54 PM
I attempted to see what that time machine is and how does it look like.
What I got, was a vision of a planet, but it did not feel like 'planet' - it felt rather like a 'world' that I looked at from above. I should say 'from space', but it did not feel like 'space' we see in this physical world.

I was in a strange state - sort of looking at that world from an insulated smaller space. The world and that smaller space in which I was were suspended in an infinite dark space. The world was totally covered with intensively bubbling, curling, boiling, constantly moving and whirling thick dark gray clouds. They were mud-gray, occasionally metallic gray. Something pretty brutal was going on there. A term of 'dark times' could impart the feeling. I felt like passenger looking out of illuminator, though there were no illuminators, but only that securely insulated space which I (and others whom I felt but did not see) were in. We were suspended above that 'world' and sort of waiting for something to pass.

When looking at this sight I felt strangely twisting sensation in my forehead and throat. It was as if energy flow was deflected or re-routed there.
Title: Re: Death of a Warrior
Post by: nichi on April 24, 2008, 10:43:35 AM
I think I found my life-song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ccDALhLuI&feature=related

and my death-song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lLytThCyRw

(The videos are worth watching, but it's the songs without the visuals pulling me in.)


I want to describe some different deaths - the previous was the backdrop, structure of our condition.

The death of a warrior:

A warrior lives by the Code. this may look like a code of Iron, but it’s not. It is the code of Poetry.

A warrior lives the life of a poem. She rejects the mundane, rejects the rational, rejects the secure. She longs to stand in the wind atop the mountain.

A warrior lives in Song. Dies in Song.

you who read this here have within you the warrior. when a warrior dies, a song is waiting. This song cuts like a razor blade into the our heart, and steals our soul. we are given to it like a mouse to a hawk.

on passing the gates on death, we each have our song, and it waits like a hawk, like a taxi, like a lover, like a flower.

away on its melody we are carried into the consummation of heroes.

what song is waiting for you? let me tell you.

think back to a time when in an unguarded moment, you heard music that stole your heart. may only have been a few bars, a few notes. usually not on a good stereo, but on the street. music that cut right through you. that is your song - and if you are lucky there may be more than one.

if you can’t recall, then work on it - every warrior has a song.

why? because music comes from our deepest being.

I will tell you of two of mine:
once when I was standing in line at the passport counter in Indonesia, Sumatra - a mouldy crappy place - I heard from an old cassette player the sound of guitar. I asked who it was - Mick Bloomfield! they said. Well I’ve never heard it since, and I know his music. But whatever, it carried me away.

next was the main one - across the lake, after my encounter with death, one morning I heard the most beautiful singing. so light, so sad, so free.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Taimyr on April 28, 2008, 04:27:49 AM
Recently i saw a tv show about death penalty in us. There was one man who used to be the executor. There was some discussion about the killing means and that they can be very painful for the people before they die and if it's all human. That man said, that it's not the pain they have to go through before death, it's death itself. The whole issue is about death iteself. I thought he had come to a quite fundamental understanding. Though he also said he really hopes, that he hasn't executed someone innocent. I though, that really doesn't make any difference.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Michael on April 28, 2008, 08:24:13 AM
good point
Title: Re: Death
Post by: xero on November 11, 2008, 07:54:25 PM
Have Long time sunshine Birthday Taimi
Title: Re: Death
Post by: Michael on May 02, 2009, 11:40:24 PM
(http://www.curlyflat.net/cartoons/L010302.gif)
Title: Re: Death
Post by: tangerine dream on May 03, 2009, 03:24:50 AM
This Leunig fellow reminds me of you.
Title: Re: Death
Post by: runningstream on August 01, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
interesting of you to say that

when i was a child i used to cry

i did not want to die

i cried and cried


when i was a child i wanted to not be alive

i cried and cried and cried

at first it makes no sense


i did not want to be here


i did also not want to die



i used to dream

i could make my own dreams to go into


sometimes a cartoon


now i try make dreams i can go into awake


not in some far out sense because its right here


its just a little different in some sense



because it means i have to let the dreamer out of me



i am still very interested to hear about death


the words go in

yet they find different combinations of meaning inside and looking back out



i try to concentrate

i am interested in the words


they are alignments





Title: Re: Death
Post by: runningstream on March 22, 2015, 02:09:10 AM
is it just a bunch of words . actually is it just a bunch of words and then death ?

is it just this loosely held vision and then death ?

words are extremely powerful . In the beginning was the word , and the word was with god . So the bible says .

all the way back to the beginning .


so what does this mean , all the way back to the beginning , is the beginning death ?

before life .


back in the water hole as the aboriginal said .


the back in the beginning i know , was from being connected to the past and whole self .

that have knowledge , knowledge of time .

so this way i ask , what was back in the beginning , to give these memories of time , passed through death to now .


what is this continuity then . life and death .

in which case ,


what indeed is this god?


it seems to me to be a path written in the water .


another lot of words i find of interest , was some thing that was also said about those who"s names are / were written on the tree of life

shall see heaven was it ?

i don't exactly recall .


definitely seems some continuation throughout or built upon time .

and time was it being consumed and spat out by the eagle after all which brings the awareness of this death ?
Title: Re: Death
Post by: runningstream on March 23, 2015, 01:27:25 AM
is it significant that Gods name s backwards as forwards ?

i got a feeling  :)   

"EHYEH" 

I AM THAT I AM