Soma
Tools of the Path => Other Paths [Public] => Topic started by: Nick on September 06, 2006, 12:05:42 AM
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I have always found the Gnostics a very interesting bunch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic
If you can get your hands on it my fave is "Thunder the Perfect Mind".
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Oooo. "Thunder Perfect Mind" sends chills down my spine.
I have it posted somewhere .. lemme find it...
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I too have always thought it to be very interesting.. thanks for the suggestion!
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The Thunder, Perfect Mind
Translated by George W. MacRae
I was sent forth from the power,
and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
Do not be ignorant of me.
For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
and he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.
Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me, confess me,
and you who confess me, deny me.
You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
You who know me, be ignorant of me,
and those who have not known me, let them know me.
For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.
I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.
Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
and you will find me in those that are to come.
And do not look upon me on the dung-heap
nor go and leave me cast out,
and you will find me in the kingdoms.
And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
are disgraced and in the least places,
nor laugh at me.
And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.
But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
Be on your guard!
Do not hate my obedience
and do not love my self-control.
In my weakness, do not forsake me,
and do not be afraid of my power.
For why do you despise my fear
and curse my pride?
But I am she who exists in all fears
and strength in trembling.
I am she who is weak,
and I am well in a pleasant place.
I am senseless and I am wise.
Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak,
Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
For I am the wisdom of the Greeks
and the knowledge of the barbarians.
I am the judgement of the Greeks and of the barbarians.
I am the one whose image is great in Egypt
and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
I am the one who has been hated everywhere
and who has been loved everywhere.
I am the one whom they call Life,
and you have called Death.
I am the one whom they call Law,
and you have called Lawlessness.
I am the one whom you have pursued,
and I am the one whom you have seized.
I am the one whom you have scattered,
and you have gathered me together.
I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
and you have been shameless to me.
I am she who does not keep festival,
and I am she whose festivals are many.
I, I am godless,
and I am the one whose God is great.
I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
and you have scorned me.
I am unlearned,
and they learn from me.
I am the one that you have despised,
and you reflect upon me.
I am the one whom you have hidden from,
and you appear to me.
But whenever you hide yourselves,
I myself will appear.
For whenever you appear,
I myself will hide from you.
Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].
Take me [... understanding] from grief.
and take me to yourselves from understanding and grief.
And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
and out of shamelessness and shame,
upbraid my members in yourselves.
And come forward to me, you who know me
and you who know my members,
and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
Come forward to childhood,
and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses,
for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.
Why do you curse me and honor me?
You have wounded and you have had mercy.
Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known.
And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away
[...] turn you away and [... know] him not.
[...].
What is mine [...].
I know the first ones and those after them know me.
But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
and the finding of those who seek after me,
and the command of those who ask of me,
and the power of the powers in my knowledge
of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
and of gods in their seasons by my counsel,
and of spirits of every man who exists with me,
and of women who dwell within me.
I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
and who is despised scornfully.
I am peace,
and war has come because of me.
And I am an alien and a citizen.
I am the substance and the one who has no substance.
Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me.
On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me,
and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.
[I am ...] within.
[I am ...] of the natures.
I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
[...] request of the souls.
I am control and the uncontrollable.
I am the union and the dissolution.
I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
I am the one below,
and they come up to me.
I am the judgment and the acquittal.
I, I am sinless,
and the root of sin derives from me.
I am lust in (outward) appearance,
and interior self-control exists within me.
I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
and the speech which cannot be grasped.
I am a mute who does not speak,
and great is my multitude of words.
Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
I am she who cries out,
and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.
I prepare the bread and my mind within.
I am the knowledge of my name.
I am the one who cries out,
and I listen.
I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
I am [...] the defense [...].
I am the one who is called Truth
and iniquity [...].
You honor me [...] and you whisper against me.
You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you)
before they give judgment against you,
because the judge and partiality exist in you.
If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?
For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped the inside of you.
And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you;
it is visible and it is your garment.
Hear me, you hearers
and learn of my words, you who know me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
I am the speech that cannot be grasped.
I am the name of the sound
and the sound of the name.
I am the sign of the letter
and the designation of the division.
And I [...].
(3 lines missing)
[...] light [...].
[...] hearers [...] to you
[...] the great power.
And [...] will not move the name.
[...] to the one who created me.
And I will speak his name.
Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.
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Ian, who do you think is speaking here?
I never did put a finger on it!
(Is it Isis?)
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Not sure that who is speaking is really the relavent question. Interesting question no doubt. But I'm more interested in what it all means. The problem with that would be that I can say that it is about the nature of the truth of life, yet this would be wrong cause it is also the opposite of that ;D.
The end kind of says it all though. TO understand what was said you must:
Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
(here is the key I think)
For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place. (Your Higher-self TrueSelf connection)
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.
There is much that could be said about it but only experience of the truth of which it tries to speak would be worth our time.
But.....It is paradox, you con not say who is speaking because it is to represent a state of being....in which duality resolves itself, the mind returns to silence....the Tonal seems full and yet it is empty.....
caw!
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(Of course, relevance is in the mind of the beholder...)
Its meanings, its lessons, very interesting ... what I get when I read it is a proclamation ... that all things are not in the purview of the religion of men. That there is an override, beyond all the trappings.
Can't disagree there!
It made the hair on my neck stand up when I first read it -- which is Robert Graves' test of how we recognize a true invocation of the goddess... if not the goddess herself. But that's just me ...
Ian, tell us more about the Gnostics and the lessons they have for us now!
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It made the hair on my neck stand up when I first read it -- which is Robert Graves' test of how we recognize a true invocation of the goddess... if not the goddess herself. But that's just me ...
Yep yep, me too!
I've always felt there was something in gnosticism. Esp. with Jung's work in the symbols and archetypes, because they were all designed and tied into it's roots. And it doesn't surprise me as Gnosticism is making a comeback in the public eye and being noticed more. Even the Davinci Code has really brought out the mystery solvers into the game, to see what it's about. Even though it's fiction, it still gets folks reading about the past, and I think this is why the Catholic Church has not been too pleased with the success of the book. Very interesting timing indeed :)
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(Of course, relevance is in the mind of the beholder...)
Its meanings, its lessons, very interesting ... what I get when I read it is a proclamation ... that all things are not in the purview of the religion of men. That there is an override, beyond all the trappings.
Can't disagree there!
It made the hair on my neck stand up when I first read it -- which is Robert Graves' test of how we recognize a true invocation of the goddess... if not the goddess herself. But that's just me ...
Ian, tell us more about the Gnostics and the lessons they have for us now!
I have to go to work in like 15 minutes here, just enough time to say a little and I'll go more indepth when my mind has more time to focus.
First, so the ladies don't hurt me, LOL. Yes, Gnosticism provides the aspect of the sacred feminine. I joke about it right now, but the feminine is essential! How can you have spirituality without the sacred lady.
But, not all Gnostics where about the feminine. And, Gnosticism is about more than just goddess worship.
A big part for me is a view of Christianity and religion in general without the focus on faith. What this means is that it is a religion you are supposed to live, to work at, so that you can come to an experience of the divine. I tire of the constant banter among Christians where ever difficult question is answered with "cause god said so".
Give me a real answer damb it! Well, the answer is in your own Gnosis.
But, the Gnostic world is a vast world with many different perspectives, but with gnosis over faith in common. It seems to me that the perspective doesn't matter so long as it serves a scaffold to help you reach that Gnosis.
For the world it provides a very much needed alternate view of Christianity.... very important for the spiritual evolution of humanity....look to Rudolf Steiner for his ideas on Christianity
more latter perhaps.....
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yes the Gnostics are an interesting bunch - I've always thought I didn't do enough investigation of them.
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Yes, me too. When I have the time I plan on some more research myself.
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Ian this is an interesting site you may enjoy...
http://home.earthlink.net/~gnosisla/index.html (http://home.earthlink.net/~gnosisla/index.html)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~gnosisla/GnosisHmePgeBner.JPG)
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Also this one...
http://www.thepearl.org/Meditation.htm (http://www.thepearl.org/Meditation.htm)
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Ahh! thepearl seems to be useful website. I like the art work on one their pages, did you notice?
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"You must put off your love of the lie, the false way of life followed by the children of this plane of existence, and be converted, changed so that you hate that which you have previously loved, and love that which you have previously hated. Then I will be able to show you all things, for there is nothing hidden which will not be manifested when you have put on the mind of Truth." (Sayings of Jesus 1:11)
"I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become drunk from the bubbling stream which I have measured out. ... He who will drink from the bubbling stream which I have measured out.... He who will drink from my mouth will become as I am: I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."
(Gospel of Thomas)
"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." Verse 22. (Gospel of Thomas)
The double maybe, or something else...?
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." (I think the Gospel of Thomas)
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Ahh! thepearl seems to be useful website. I like the art work on one their pages, did you notice?
I havnt looked around any further then the meditation piece, Im researching a few things trying to figure out a deep part of myself that has been surfacing for about 3 years. Excellent researching, great discovery within and out. :)
I LOVE the art here youve shared.. Im looking forward to looking into the site further.
Thank you, Raven
**edit**Funny.. when I wrote 3 years the very same thing Im digging at sort of poked at me and laughed saying Ive been there all your life)
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"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]." Verse 22. (Gospel of Thomas)
The double maybe, or something else...?
lol its the double Im researching.. and yes I think this is exactly what this means...
"You must put off your love of the lie, the false way of life followed by the children of this plane of existence, and be converted, changed so that you hate that which you have previously loved, and love that which you have previously hated. Then I will be able to show you all things, for there is nothing hidden which will not be manifested when you have put on the mind of Truth." (Sayings of Jesus 1:11)
Jesus was a nagual shaman.. he was!
Im always so touched to read things like this and then a hint of saddness feathers in to dance with a bit of clairty. Isnt it so sad how humans being human.. have twisted religion to be "theirs"
"I am not your master. Because you have drunk, you have become drunk from the bubbling stream which I have measured out. ... He who will drink from the bubbling stream which I have measured out.... He who will drink from my mouth will become as I am: I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."
(Gospel of Thomas)
This one too sounds like the double.
Love, Raven
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http://www.thepearl.org/The_Inward_Quest.htm
THE INWARD QUEST
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The setting of mortal life can be likened to a great marketplace where countless commodities are bought and sold. As mortals we wander through the marketplace searching for the right food to satisfy our hunger. Sometimes, after partaking of certain foods, we feel satisfied, and so we return again to obtain that food. But gradually, we realize that we hunger and thirst for something more. Again we select what we believe will be just the thing to assuage our hunger and quench our thirst. Again, the results are impermanent.
As we continually are unsatisfied by our choices, we awaken to the realization that what we truly seek for, hunger and thirst for, may not be available in the worldly marketplace. We sense another part of ourselves, a metaphysical side, whose hunger cannot be satiated with physical food and drink.
However, through ingesting the food of the marketplace, our taste buds have become perverted, and our appetites still cry out for that food which cannot satisfy the hunger of the soul. We continue to desire the food our bodies crave, at the same time growing in our realization that more satisfying food is available. We now hear the call of the venders of metaphysical theories, and perhaps we sample one theory and then another, unable to recognize with certainty that elixir we seek, the food of the gods that will transform us into their nature and lift us above the confusion of the mortal plane.
This condition of confusion and frustration is such an integral part of mortality that our music, art, and literature, both ancient and modern, is filled with descriptions of the search for freedom from the pain of our existence. Poets sing of the fleeting moments of joy and vision that momentarily relieve the recurring feelings of being trapped. These longings are so universal that virtually every culture in our world’s history has developed folklore and myth to reveal the truths about our mortal search for freedom and enlightenment.
Joseph Campbell, one of our modern spokesmen for the meaning of myth in our lives, described this quest for unity with the metaphysical. -- that which is more than the physical:
“People say that what we’re all seeking is a meaning for life. I don’t think that’s what we’re really seeking. I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and reality....”(The Power of Myth 3). When we awaken to the reality of this innermost being, we have glimpsed the true way of salvation from the pain and dissonance of this mortal life, a life so transient that it actually contains the seeds of death. As we get to know our innermost being we receive the keys that open up a life that is truly Life, for it is everlasting.
In the ancient Gnostic myth, “The Quest for the Priceless Pearl,” the heroine or hero, for we are never told that gender is an issue, is sent on a journey by her Divine Parents. She must leave the House of Life where she has been nurtured, and go to retrieve a priceless pearl which is in the clutches of a fire-breathing serpent. If she is successful in bringing back the pearl, she will obtain complete unity with her parents and her elder brother, possessing all that they have forever. The parents write this promise in their child’s heart, so that she will take it with her into the land of Egypt, the great marketplace of mortality.
Because the parents know that their child will forget the promise and will become confused in this far off land, they provide guides to instruct her on the way. They leave her at the gates of Egypt, and she begins her quest.
After partaking of the food of the marketplace in Egypt, our heroine forgets about the pearl and the land of the East where she has come from. Aware of her difficulties, her parents send a messenger to awaken her to the message written within her heart. Upon hearing the message, she remembers that she is the child of Divine Parents, and she sees the reality of her situation. From that moment she seeks to fulfill her mission and to return to the House of Life and her loved ones. She manages to retrieve the pearl from the serpent and journeys back to her homeland where she receives the blessings promised to her.
Becoming conscious of the light within and the precious truths that have been written there, is surely like awakening from a deep sleep. At first the threads of consciousness waft into our minds, but they are ethereal, and we seek to go back to sleep. If we are unwilling to awaken to our true nature, we can sleep for a long time, but if we allow that truth to call to us, and are willing to listen for its message, we will gradually awaken to a new awareness of our divine origins. We can envision and begin to live that life that “resonates with our innermost reality.” The inner covenant comes alive.
The quest for understanding is inward. At the outset we cannot see where the search will lead us, and we seek for guides to instruct us. Still we stumble, but by relying on the vision of our origins, we are able to go forward into the hidden reality that calls to us. We must go forward one step at a time, because if we could see the entire length of road that we must travel in quest of our own divine nature, we would be afraid. We wouldn’t realize the changes that will be made in us so we will be able to meet each challenge in its turn.
Beyond experiencing fear, it is likely that we would fail to appreciate the value of the treasure that will ultimately be ours. In the marketplace we are sidetracked by such rewards as approval, emotional involvement, physical beauty, material wealth and security. For unawakened mortals, these are the true treasure, and even after we are first awakened to the reality of the divine light within, our mortal minds are reluctant to let go of these glittering commodities.
Our mortal minds must relinquish their fascination with the illusions of the marketplace and allow the infinite spirit of light to transform our minds, to change the way we think, so that we no longer look at reality through a dark glass, but through finely honed crystal that lights up every aspect of our previous longings and reveals their true source.
Just as the heroine in the myth, “The Quest for the Priceless Pearl” awakens to the message placed inside her heart, so we each have within us the precious understanding of our own divine nature. But the process of its unraveling is a journey into the unknown that is as challenging and thrilling as any hero’s quest.
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Jesus was a nagual shaman.. he was!
Im always so touched to read things like this and then a hint of saddness feathers in to dance with a bit of clairty. Isnt it so sad how humans being human.. have twisted religion to be "theirs"
Well, Jesus has said that he brought the sword and not peace. He said something about children going against the will of their parents, spouses splitting up, etc.
Some have even classified him as a three-pronged nagual. :D
Yet the split he mentioned might come to being as we follow the path of 'getting stuffed' :D
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A bit about signs, too :D
About 25 minutes after writing here about Jesus I opened TV and there was a movie about little girl accused of sorcery, sitting in jail and waiting for her execution by burning. Jesus came to her cell and said: 'Don't worry, everything will be fine!'
:D