Topic: Breaking Self-importance, breaking the will

[erismoksha]

Is there a difference between breaking one's self-importance, and breaking one's will? Or evenso, is there a fine-line, gray area between these two issues?

[tommy2]

I tried for decades, E, to "break" things which I eventually learned to live with, as just being parts of me which I needed to grow into.  If there's any "fine-line" betwixt things in self and no-self, it's the consiousness we might want to place upon why we make certain decisions, because all decisions are not very valid.

i.e., are you seriously investigating your need for breaking the very tools which have and always will shape you into what you have been becoming?

My own struggle with this never ceases, and surely shouldn't.

tom

[erismoksha]

I tried for decades, E, to "break" things which I eventually learned to live with, as just being parts of me which I needed to grow into.  If there's any "fine-line" betwixt things in self and no-self, it's the consiousness we might want to place upon why we make certain decisions, because all decisions are not very valid.

i.e., are you seriously investigating your need for breaking the very tools which have and always will shape you into what you have been becoming?

Ah, that's a good question, Tommy. Can only answer for myself, but certain tools, I don't think should always be discarded so easily, unless they've worn their use, served their purpose, and its time for a new set of tools altogether But they still have had value, right, wrong or indifferent.

Course, thinking on it for several reasons, if we found those tools were actually taking 'apart' something which we shouldnt be attempting to fix in the first place.... that needs to be examined.

My own struggle with this never ceases, and surely shouldn't.

tom

Agreed!

[Quantum Shaman]

Is there a difference between breaking one's self-importance, and breaking one's will? Or evenso, is there a fine-line, gray area between these two issues?

Hi, Ellen.

From an energetic standpoint, I think self-importance and the will are very different issues.  The will is about manifestation, bringing forth our dreams and visions into actualization (whether consciously or unconsciously).  The will is a moving force - not always noticeably present, but more or less always "at the ready", waiting for the command from Intent.

Out of curiosity... any particular context, or more of a philosophical pondering?

D

[Michael]

From an energetic standpoint, I think self-importance and the will are very different issues.

yes, would agree. interesting how we say, to break someone's will, and right there both can be present - in breaking SI, society often does break the will.

yet there is something in a wrong directed will - determination to go in a direction which is not our destiny, but the ideas of society or parents etc. In that case, I suppose some 'breaking' is required, but it's not the will so much as the 'face', the direction.

[Quantum Shaman]

yes, would agree. interesting how we say, to break someone's will, and right there both can be present - in breaking SI, society often does break the will.

yet there is something in a wrong directed will - determination to go in a direction which is not our destiny, but the ideas of society or parents etc. In that case, I suppose some 'breaking' is required, but it's not the will so much as the 'face', the direction.

Ah - I see what you're saying.  "determination to go in a direction which is not our destiny..."  I dunno about anyone else, but that is something I have wrestled with (sometimes literally) all my life.  I've posted a bit about it over the years, with regard to my writing career, my short-lived career as a real estate agent, and some other stuff.  What it seems to boil down to is a concept we were discussing awhile back over at TSW, with regard to "surrendering to the nagual."

If I were to put it in more succinct terms, I might say, "Surrender to the will of the double."  As a result of my own self-stalking, I have truly come to *see* that the human organism has two "faces" of the will - the humanform self, and the infinite double.  Even warriors who have been on the path for a long time might not realize at first that when we truly commit to the path, we are essentially "surrendering" to the nagual.  To illustrate, for me it was something like this:  I basically said to spirit and my double one day, "Teach me what I need to know in order to achieve the totality of myself." 

The very first answer that came back was, "Can you surrender your human will to your own higher self?"

The act of SAYING "yes" was easy, of course.  The ongoing process of DOING it... *heh*... that's where the real work comes in.  Letting go is seldom easy, but I've come to look at it like a trapeze act.  It's easier to release the safety bar and just fly... when you know that the person who is going to catch you... is yourself.

... *ahem*... of course... sometimes I think we drop ourselves just to build strength, experience & character.  *heh*  THAT can really hurt, even when it is entirely necessary. 

[Jahn]

  Even warriors who have been on the path for a long time might not realize at first that when we truly commit to the path, we are essentially "surrendering" to the nagual.  To illustrate, for me it was something like this:  I basically said to spirit and my double one day, "Teach me what I need to know in order to achieve the totality of myself." 

The very first answer that came back was, "Can you surrender your human will to your own higher self?"

What we call alignment to our higher self and Nagual. Transformed warriors live by will, I did not write "their will" because "the will" they live by is a mix with non-human energy and their own.

[Michael]

personally, I would say, we don't seek to break the will, but to break the face.

the re-aligning of the face, to the direction of the Nagual, is as we from CC's patch of the woods know well, is one of the first and most significant acts for anyone on the path.