Author Topic: The 'period of dimensions'  (Read 108 times)

Offline Zamurito

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The 'period of dimensions'
« on: December 04, 2007, 02:36:04 PM »

     "A three-dimensional body differs from the point, the line, and the plane by the fact that it has a real physical existence for our perception."
     "The plane is in fact only a projection of a body, the line is a projection of a plane, and the point is a projection of a line."
     "A 'body' has an independent physical existence, that is, it possesses a number of different physical properties."
     "But when we say a thing 'exists,' we mean by this existence in time.  But there is no time in three-dimensional space.  Time lies outside the three-dimensional space.  Time, as we feel it, is the fourth dimension.  Existence is for us existence in time.  Existence in time is movement or extension along the fourth dimension.  If we take existence as an extension along the fourth dimension, if we think of life as a four-dimensional body, then a three-dimensional body will be its section, its projection, or its limit." 
     "But existence in time does not embrace all the aspects of existence.  Apart from existing in time, everthing that exists, exists also in eternity."
     "Eternity is the infinte existence of every moment of time.  If we conceive time as a line, then this line will be crossed at every point by the lines of eternity.  Every point of the line of time will be a line in eternity.  The line of time will be a plane of eternity.  Eternity has one more dimension than time.  Therefore, if time is the fourth dimension, eternity is the fifth dimension.  If the space of time is four-dimensional, then the space of eternity is five-dimensional."
     "Further, in order to understand the idea of the fifth and the sixth dimensions, a certain view of time must be established."

Gurdjieff comments to Ouspensky
In Search of the Miraculous
P.D. Ouspensky

To be continued in much more depth...I'm beat tonight.

For myself, to view these concepts in this way is very interesting and helpful.  Again, I'll re-post much more of this that gives a more complete understanding ;)

z
     
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline daphne

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Re: The 'period of dimensions'
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 04:46:35 PM »
I find "dimensions" fascinating! Please do post more of what Gurdjieff/Ouspensky have to say! 
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline daphne

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Re: The 'period of dimensions'
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 04:49:40 PM »
In the Tree of Life schemata, the point, the line and the plane comprise of the supernal triangle. it would then appear that the remainder of the tree could be construed to be that which is in 'time', hence give us the Tree of Life!
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline Zamurito

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Re: The 'period of dimensions'
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2007, 12:03:46 PM »
Here's a bit more....


In the world accessible to our study we have a perfectly clear example of the relation of zero to infinity. In geometry this is the relation of one unit of a certain number of dimensions to another unit of a greater number of dimensions. The relation of a point to a line, of a line to a plane, of a plane to a solid, of a solid, that is, of a three- dimensional body to a four-dimensional body, and so on.
“If we adopt this point of view, we shall have to admit that the relation of one cosmos to another is the relation of two bodies of different dimensions. If one cosmos is three-dimensional then the next cosmos, that is, the one above it, must be four-dimensional, the next—five-dimensional, and so on. If we take the ‘atom’ or ‘microbe,’ as you say, that is, the Microcosmos as a point, then relative to this point man will be a line, that is, a figure of one dimension. The next cosmos, the earth, will be a plane relative to man, that is, it will have two dimensions, as is actually the case for direct perception. The sun, the solar system, will be three- dimensional for the earth. The starry world will be four-dimensional for the sun. ‘All worlds’ are five-dimensional, and the Absolute or Protocosmos is six-dimensional.
What personally interests me most in this system of cosmoses is that I see in them the full ‘period of dimensions,’ of my New Model of the Universe. It is not merely a coincidence of details—it is absolutely identical. I do not know how it has come about; I have never heard of seven cosmoses related to one another in the ratio of zero to infinity. Nevertheless my ‘period of dimensions’ coincides with this absolutely exactly.
“The ‘period of dimensions’ contains within itself seven dimensions:
The zero-dimension, the first, the second, and so on up to the sixth dimension. The zero-dimension or the point is a limit. This means that we see something as a point, but we do not know what is concealed behind this point. It may actually be a point, that is, a body having no dimensions and it may also be a whole world, but a world so far removed from us or so small that it appears to us as a point. The movement of this point in space will appear to us as a line. In the same way the point itself will see the space along which it moves as a line. The movement of the line in a direction perpendicular to itself will be a plane and the line itself will see the space along which it moves in the shape of a plane.
“Up to now I have examined the line from the point of view of the point, and the plane from the point of view of the line, but the point, the line, and the plane can also be taken from the point of view of a three-dimensional body. In this case the plane will be the boundary of the body, or its side, or its section. The line will be the boundary limiting the plane, or the section of the plane. The point will be the limit or the section of the line.
“A three-dimensional body differs from the point, the line, and the plane by the fact that it has a real physical existence for our perception.
“The plane is in fact only a projection of a body, the line is a projection of a plane, and the point is a projection of a line.
“A body’ has an independent physical existence, that is, it possesses a number of different physical properties.
“But when we say a thing exists,’ we mean by this existence in time. But there is no time in three-dimensional space. Time lies outside the three-dimensional space. Time, as we feel it, is the fourth diineiision. Existence is for us existence in time. Existence in time is movement or extension along the fourth dimension. If we take existence as an extension along the fourth dimension, if we think of life as a four-dimensional body, then a three-dimensional body will be its section, its projection, or its limit.
“But existence in time does not embrace all the aspects of existence. Apart from existing in time, everything that exists, exists also in eternity.
‘Eternity is the infinite existence of every moment of time. If we conceive time as a line, then this line will be crossed at every point by the lines of eternity. Every point of the line of time will be a line in eternity. The line of time will be a plane of eternity. Eternity has one dimension more than time. Therefore, if time is the fourth dimension, eternity is the fifth dimension. If the space of time is four-dimensional, then the space of eternity is five-dimensional.
“Further, in order to understand the idea of the fifth and the sixth dimensions, a certain view of time must be established.
“Every moment of time contains a certain number of possibilities, at times a small number, at others a great number, but never an infinite number. It is necessary to realize that there are possibilities and there are impossibilities. I can take from this table and throw on the floor a piece of paper, a pencil, or an ash-tray, but I cannot take from the table and throw on the floor an orange which is not on the table. This clearly defines the difference between possibility and impossibility. There are several combinations of possibilities in relation to things which can be thrown on the floor from this table. I can throw a pencil, or a piece of paper, or an ash-tray, or else a pencil and a piece of paper, or a pencil and an ash-tray, or a piece of paper and an ash-tray, or all three together, or nothing at all. There are only these possibilities. If we take as a moment of time the moment when these possibilities exist, then the next moment will be a moment of the actualization of one of the possibilities. A pencil is thrown on the floor. This is the actualization of one of the possibilities. Then a new moment comes. This moment also has a certain number of possibilities in a certain definite sense. And the moment after it will again be a moment of the actualization of one of the possibilities. The consecutiveness of these moments of actualization of one possibility constitutes the line of time. But each moment of time has an infinite existence in eternity. The possibilities which have been actualized continue to be endlessly actualized in eternity, while the non-actualized possibilities continue to remain non actualized and non-actualizable.
“But all the possibilities that have been created or have originated in the world must be actualized. The actualization of all the possibilities created or originated constitutes the world’s being. At the same time there is no place for the actualization of these possibilities within the limits of eternity. In eternity everything that has been actualized continues to be actualized and everything non-actualized continues to remain non-actualized. Eternity, however, is only a plane crossed by the line of time. At every point of this line there remains a certain number of non-actualized possibilities. If we imagine the line of the actualization of these possibilities, they will proceed along radii issuing from one point at different angles to the line of time and the line of eternity. These lines will proceed outside eternity, outside the five-dimensional space, in ‘higher eternity’ or in six-dimensional space, in the sixth dimension.
“The sixth dimension is the line of the actualization of all possibilities. “The fifth dimension is the line of the eternal existence or repetition of the actualized possibilities.
“The fourth dimension is the sequence of the moments of the actualization of one possibility.
“As I have said, seven dimensions, from zero-dimension to the sixth dimension, constitute the full period of dimensions. Beyond this period there is either nothing or the same period may repeat itself on another scale.

Gurdjieff comments to Ouspensky
In Search of the Miraculous
P.D. Ouspensky


"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Zamurito

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Re: The 'period of dimensions'
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 07:31:02 PM »
>>>The zero-dimension, the first, the second, and so on up to the sixth dimension. The zero-dimension or the point is a limit. This means that we see something as a point, but we do not know what is concealed behind this point.

Keep this in mind....'what is concealed behind this point.'

z
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

 

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