Topic: Karmapa Lama - Black Hat Lama

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC46L5kBsIs

The Karmapa Lama controversy



The recognition of the Seventeenth Karmapa, the head of the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism, has been the subject of controversy.[1] Since the death of the sixteenth Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje, in 1981, two candidates have been put forward:

    * Ogyen Trinley Dorje (also spelled Urgyen Trinley Dorje)
    * Trinley Thaye Dorje





Both have already been enthroned as 17th Karmapa, and both independently have been performing ceremonial duties in the role of a Karmapa. They have not met, though both have expressed a willingness and desire to meet. The situation has led to deep division among Kagyu followers all over the world. As one academic expert in the field testified in court, while the recognition of Urgyen Trinley "appears to have been accepted by a majority of Karma Kagyu monasteries and lamas, there remains a substantial minority of monasteries and lamas who have not accepted Urgyen Trinley as Karmapa. In particular, these include the Shamar Rinpoche, who historically has been the person most directly involved in the process of recognition."[2] It is difficult to produce an objective description of the events because the most important developments are known only from conflicting accounts by those involved.

The Karmapa lineage is the most ancient tulku lineage in Tibetan Buddhism, predating the Dalai Lama lineage by more than two centuries. The lineage is an important one as the Karmapa is traditionally the head of the Karma Kagyu school, one of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism.
Contents


Recognition of the Karmapa

As with any other lineage of tulkus, the question of recognizing the new incarnation is crucial. Sometimes, all concerned parties are sure that a particular child is indeed the new incarnation of that particular master. Such agreement was not the case with the 8th, 10th, and 12th Karmapas (each of which was resolved).[3] A dispute has happened again in the case of the 17th Karmapa.

Karmapas have often been self-recognizing. That means that many incarnations (at least seven out of sixteen)[citation needed] claimed very early in life to be Karmapa, recognizing associates and colleagues of the previous incarnation. Also, each Karmapa has left indications leading to his next rebirth, often in the form of a letter. In such letters, indications regarding the location and parentage of the next incarnation were included, though usually in a poetic form that is difficult to decipher. However, the closest associates of the previous incarnation play a crucial role in the process of recognizing the next Karmapa. After all, it is they who have been closely associated with the previous incarnation and will have to raise and teach the new one.

The process of recognition has involved several different lamas since the first recognition in the early 13th century. Geoffrey Samuel writes that, "From the late 14th century onwards until the 1790s, the primary responsibility for recognising and enthroning the Karmapa normally belong to the Shamarpa."[4] The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Karmapas were recognised by individual followers of the early Karmapas, rather than by any tulku. The Shamarpa recognised the 5th, 6th, 9th (together with Tai Situ), 10th, 11th, and (via a search party) 12th Karmapas. Tai Situ recognised the 8th, 9th (together with the Shamarpa), 14th, and (together with Jamgon Kongtrul) 16th Karmapas. Gyaltsab Rinpoche recognised the 7th and 13th Karmapas, and the 15th Karmapa was recognised by the 9th Drukchen of the Drukpa Kagyu.[4]

In the 1790s, shortly before the recognition of the 14th Karmapa, the Tibetan government in Lhasa banned the Shamarpa from reincarnating as a result of alleged political intrigues. The Karmapa continued to recognize reincarnations of the Shamarpa, but they of necessity lived in secret and were not available to recognise the Karmapas. This ban became irrelevant when the Dalai Lama and the Karmapa both fled Tibet in the late 1950s. The ban was formally lifted in 1963.

Samuel points out that, in the cases of the 7th and 13th Karmapas, the Shamarpa of that time had died at around the same time as the previous Karmapa, meaning that there was no adult Shamarpa available to take part in the recognition. Thus, Samuel argues that "the only real exception" to the Shamarpa's preeminent role, prior to his banning, was in the recognition of the 8th Karmapa in 1506.[4] Tai Situ has been the next most actively involved in recognising Karmapas, including two of the three recognised between 1790 and 1963.

Split recognition of the current Karmapa

Of the two 17th Karmapas, Ogyen Trinley Dorje has been recognized by Situ Rinpoche and Gyaltsab Rinpoche. In July 1992, both asked the Office of the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala to confirm their recognition. The 14th Dalai Lama confirmed the recognition of Ogyen Trinley Dorje. The head of the Sakya school, Sakya Trizin, as well as the future head of the Nyingma school, Mindroling Trichen Rinpoche, also recognised Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa and composed long-life prayers for him.[5] The government of the People's Republic of China has also accepted him.

The first born Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje, has been recognized by Shamar Rinpoche - regarded by some as the senior lama in the Karma Kagyu hierarchy below the Karmapas themselves.

Beru Khentse Rinpoche holds a distinct minority view, saying he believes both Karmapas are legitimate.[6] He states "it is possible that there can be two Karmapas in order to benefit sentient beings because the Karmapa can manifest in many different forms" and writes that the 14th Karmapa highlighted that "in many universes a hundred million Karmapas have manifested. The Karmapa is also the Buddha's emanation, thus until all the thousand Buddhas have come and their doctrine is not diminishing, my activity of the Karmapa emanations will not end."[7]

Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche said that "as far as my father [i.e., Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche] was concerned, they were both to be respected and perceived with pure appreciation."[8]

For followers on both sides of this controversy, the issue is painful. Both sides pray that the rightful Karmapa may be able to do his dharmic duties and teachings. Karma Kagyu teachers such as Ole Nydahl have said that the spiritual realization of the Karmapas and their worthiness as reincarnations will be shown clearly by their future actions.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje

    Main article: Ogyen Trinley Dorje

Ogyen Trinley Dorje

Ogyen Trinley Dorje was born in 1985 to a nomadic family in eastern Tibet. At age seven, he was formally enthroned at Tsurphu Monastery, the traditional seat of the Karmapas in Tibet. In late December 1999, he eluded his communist Chinese minders, who prevented him from undertaking most of his traditional studies and teaching activities, and escaped over the Himalaya mountains to exile in India. He celebrated his twenty-first birthday on June 26, 2006.

Circumstances leading to candidacy

After the death of the 16th Karmapa Shamar Rinpoche, Tai Situ Rinpoche, Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, and Goshir Gyaltsab Rinpoche agreed to form a council of regents to take joint responsibility for the spiritual affairs of the Karma Kagyu lineage, alternating as the regent for the Karmapa every three years. This regency however, was dissolved by mutual consent in 1984 having only functioned for three years after the 16th Karmapa's death.

Supporters of Ogyen Trinley Dorje claim that his birth and parentage are consistent with the prediction by Chogyur Lingpa, who, it is claimed, had prophetic visions of various events in the lives of the 14th through the 21st Karmapas. Many believe that Lingpa's statement that the minds of Tai Situpa and Karmapa "are inseparably joined as one" refers to the 17th Karmapa and current Tai Situ Rinpoche. "The description ... is meant to show there is disagreement in this reincarnation and the mind of the 17th Karmapa and the mind of Tai Situ Rinpoche are inseparable from each other," explains the Kagyu lama Thrangu Rinpoche, who is one of Ogyen Trinley Dorje's tutors. Although according to Thrangu Rinpoche the 16th Karmapa left two letters specifying a rebirth in Tibet, it is yet another prediction document, hidden in a locket and given to Tai Situ, that has prompted criticism from the rival claimant's camp. Supporters of Thaye Dorje have contended that Tai Situ Rinpoche fabricated this letter; to date he has refused requests to have it scientifically analyzed, claiming this would be a violation of a sacred object.

However it has been persuasively argued that the prediction was already fulfilled with the 16th Karmapa who, in the most accurate sense, was the 17th. This is supported by Chogyur Lingpa's life story, where he explains that one Karmapa died too early to be enthroned, and that as to Chogyur Lingpa's view, he needs to be included when enumerating the Karmapas. As Chogyur Lingpa is also the source of the prediction, the argument has persuasive force and it holds true that the described event of the prediction took place between the then Karmapa and Situpa during the life of the 16th Karmapa.

In January 1981, nine months before his death, the 16th Karmapa gave the 12th Tai Situpa an amulet with a yellow brocade cover, telling him, "This is your protection amulet. In the future, it will confer great benefit." Although Tai Situpa wore the locket on a gold chain for about a year after the Karmapa's death, he moved it to a side pocket, not realizing its significance or that it contained a message. In 1989, following an intuition, Tai Situpa opened the amulet and found the third prediction letter, inside an envelope marked "Open in the Iron Horse Year." The letter said that the Karmapa was to be reborn "to the north, in the east of the land of snow," and when interpreted at the March 1992 meeting of the council of the four regents, was taken to mean that he would be reborn in a specific valley in eastern Tibet. The letter is reproduced on the Kagyu Office website[9], and reads in part:

    From here to the north [in] the east of [the Land of] Snow
    Is a country where divine thunder spontaneously blazes.
    [In] a beautiful nomad's place with the sign of a cow,
    The method is Döndrub and the wisdom is Lolaga.
    [Born in] the year of the one used for the earth
    [With] the miraculous, far-reaching sound of the white one:
    [This] is the one known as Karmapa.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje's mother's name is Loga; his father's name is Karma Döndrub Tashi, a name given to him by the 16th Karmapa. Although the search party sent to find him did not yet know it, both of Ogyen Trinley Dorje's parents' names were closely predicted in the letter produced by Tai Situpa. According to Michele Martin, the letter was interpreted to mean he would be "born ... in the area of Lhathok, which translates as 'divine (lha) thunder (thog).' The name of the remote nomadic community where Ogyen Trinley Dorje was born is Bagor, of which ba means 'cow.' The next line indicates his parents, where the masculine principle method refers to his father Döndrub, and the feminine principle wisdom refers to his mother Lolaga. The one used for the earth points to an animal that plows, and Ogyen Trinley Dorje was born in the year of the Wood Ox (1985). The far-reaching sound of the white one indicates the sound of the conch shell that miraculously resounded in the sky for hours after the Karmapa's birth." [10]

On May 22, 1992, one month before his seventh birthday, Ogyen Trinley Dorje was discovered near Bagor, Lhathok, in Eastern Tibet. According to the kagyu official website:[11]

    After consideration of the evidence and additional meetings with Their Eminences Tai Situ Rinpoche, Tsurphu Gyaltsab Rinpoche and Shamar Rinpoche, His Holiness the Dalai Lama granted the Buktham Rinpoche, the official notification of the Dalai Lama's approval of the identity of His Holiness the Seventeenth Karmapa.

On September 27, 1992, Ogyen Trinley Dorje was formally enthroned at Tsurphu Monastery in Tibet, the traditional seat of the Karmapas, in a ceremony attended by 20,000 people. He lived in Tsurphu another seven years. In late 1999, 14-year-old Ogyen Trinley Dorje decided that the restrictions placed on him by the PRC government at Tsurphu limited his ability to teach his disciples and receive teachings from lineage masters. He made a daring escape over the Himalayas in the middle of winter, evading Chinese authorities and making his way through Nepal and on to Dharamsala, India, arriving on January 5, 2000. [12]

Analysts have speculated that this retreat to India was predicted by the 16th Karmapa in his 1940 work entitled "A Song":[13]

    In the springtime, a cuckoo comes as a guest.
    In the fall when the harvest ripens,
    it knows where to go:
    Its only thought is travel to the east of India.
    In the lofty land of Tibet, the inhabitants, high and low,

    And in particular, you, Tai Situ, the Lord and
    Protector Maitreya,
    Who remains above the crown of our head,
    May your activities, like the sun and moon set in space,
    Be continuous, stable, and without hindrance.

    I pray that we meet again and again.

According to interpretation, the "spring...cuckoo" is equated to the cuckoo that landed on the tent where Ogyen Trinley Dorje was born - one of the miraculous signs said to accompany his birth. The "fall...harvest" is interpreted as Ogyen Trinley Dorje's adult travel "east" to "India." Above all, the supplication to Tai Situ Rinpoche and the prayer to "meet again and again" strongly suggests to his supporters that he is indeed the legitimate tulku.

Trinley Thaye Dorje

    Main article: Trinley Thaye Dorje

Trinley Thaye Dorje

Thaye Dorje was born on the 6th of May 1983 in Lhasa, Tibet. His father is Mipham Rinpoche, the reincarnation of a very important lama of the Nyingma school. In October 1986 Chobgye Tri Rinpoche, senior Sakya master and head of one of the three Sakya lineages, contacted the Shamarpa and informed him about a dream he had had and about a relative of his from Lhasa who brought a picture of a child who reportedly and repeatedly announced that he was the Karmapa. In 1988 Lopon Tsechu Rinpoche was sent to bring more information about the child. Later an unnamed lama was sent to meet with the family and the boy without revealing the real purpose of his visit. Upon meeting with the emissary the boy promptly said "You were sent here for me." This along with other evidence convinced the Shamarpa that the boy was indeed the reincarnation of the late 16th Karmapa. In March 1994 Thaye Dorje escaped with his family from Tibet and travelled to New Delhi where he was formally recognized during a welcoming ceremony. He took monastic ordination from Chobgye Tri Rinpoche and is at present undergoing a very intensive education under the guidance of Shamar Rinpoche, also studying under teachers such as Prof. Sempa Dorje, Khenpo Chödrak Rinpoche and others. He also travels extensively in the East and the West.

Claims by his supporters

Thaye Dorje's supporters claim that traditionally it was the Shamarpa who recognized the Karmapa, and therefore no additional recognition is required or even valid. (However, the recognition of the Karmapa has not always been made by the Shamarpa.) Supporters point out that Karma Pakshi, the 2nd Karmapa, predicted "future Karmapas shall manifest in two Nirmanakaya forms." The 3rd Karmapa recognized the 1st Shamarpa as the fulfillment of this prophecy, giving the Shamar incarnates a special relationship with the Karmapas. This is supported among others by old Kagyu literature where one frequently finds the expression of the 2 Karmapas, black and red hat. Also, when referring to former reincarnation of the Shamarpa, these are often called Karmapa and can only differentiated from former Karmapa reincarnations by their name.

Supporters also accuse Tai Situpa of forging the letter ostensibly written by the 16th Karmapa and hidden in a locket, containing clues about his new incarnation. They have requested that the letter be verified by independent experts including forensic document examiners. Tai Situ has thus far refused to allow this because handwriting analysis is primarily a Western area of study and accurate handwriting analysis of Tibetan script simply does not exist. Forensic analysis is also not a traditional part of the recognition process.

Well aware of Chogyur Lingpa's predictions about the 17th Karmapas, supporters of Thaye Dorje suggest the prediction was already fulfilled with the 16th Karmapa, who actually was the 17th, even though only 16 had been officially enthroned. This claim may sound odd, but is supported by Chogyur Lingpa's life story, where he explains that one Karmapa died too early to be enthroned, and that as to Chogyur Lingpa's view, he needs to be included when listing the Karmapas.

Although followers of Ogyen Trinley Dorje point out that he was the only candidate enthroned in Tibet, both claimants were born in Tibet and so the prediction about the return to Tibet within these two letters is fulfilled by both claimants.

As has been verified in the context of a law case in New Zealand by Prof. Geoffrey Samuel, the Dalai Lama’s recognition is not necessary for the Karmapas. [14] At the same time, Tomek Lehnert's book claims the Dalai Lama was tricked into recognizing Ogyen Trinley by Tai Situpa who told him that all four Kagyu regents agreed he was the right candidate.

Dawa Sangpo Dorje

There have been other claimants to the title who are less well known or widely supported. One such person is Dawa Sangpo Dorje, who was born in Mangan in north Sikkim in 1977 (before the death of the 16th Karmapa) and subsequently resided in Damthang in South Sikkim. As recently as December 2003 he requested the opportunity to prove his "supernatural power" to the Dalai Lama.[15]

Recent developments
Rumtek Monastery

Control of Rumtek Monastery, which was the seat of the 16th Karmapa in exile, has been the subject of a legal contest. In 1961 the 16th Karmapa established the Karmapa Charitable Trust. Ogyen Trinley's followers claimed that the trust was solely established for the sake of seeing to the welfare of the Karmapa's followers, providing funds for the maintenance of the monastery, and for the monks' medical fees, but that administration of the monastery was the responsibility of the Tsurphu Labrang. The Indian Supreme Court is currently considering a related case.[16][17]
Ogyen Trinley Dorje (middle), Shamarpa (right), Chökyi Nyima (left)

According to both the official Shamarpa website[18] and an official Ogyen Trinley Dorje website[19], Ogyen Trinley Dorje met with the Shamarpa in the Oberoi International Hotel in New Delhi on 9 January 2007. Ogyen Trinley Dorje had mentioned his desire to meet the Shamarpa, and requested Chökyi Nyima arrange a personal meeting with him. The Shamarpa had declined the first invitation in 2005, which was received by telephone call from Drigung Chetsang Rinpoche, because to have accepted it "at that time would invite unwarranted suspicions from the India government upon himself." According to Dawa Tsering, spokesperson for the administration of Shamar Rinpoche, "He (Urgyen Trinley Dorje) was confident that this meeting would bring peace in the Kagyu School in general and thus help in flourishing Buddha Dharma. This meeting has created a basis to re-unite all in the Dharma Sangha. Therefore, such an initiative should be appreciated by all."

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This is the one Dalai Lama recognizes as the incarnation

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Basis of his decision

[Firestarter]

http://www.rinpoche.com/controversy.htm

THE KARMAPA CONTROVERSY

"In the course of my lineage practice, I constantly prayed to the 16th
Karmapa for his help to enable me to know clearly and deeply in my mind who is the real 17th Karmapa. Praying with pure motivation and with the blessings of the 16th Karmapa, I have concluded with absolute certainty that Urgyen Trinley Drodul Dorje from Tibet is the 17th Karmapa. I have reached this conclusion from my own practice and the blessings of the Karmapa."

 -Thrangu Rinpoche

 

9TH KHENCHEN THRANGU RINPOCHE
Talks on The Karmapa Controversy

An interview with Thrangu Rinpoche on the Karmapa controversy was translated to English Language by TDSPJ Translation Team which was originally in Chinese prepared by "For You Information" magazine.

The interview was arranged by Karma Choying Kunkyab Ling and given to the Chief Editor of For You Information magazine, Ven. Guang Chao at Karma Choying Kunkyab Ling, Singapore on 24th May 2000.

There is this controversy on the identification of the 17th Karmapa within the Kagyu Lineage. Two senior disciples of the 16th Karmapa have identified two different boys as the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa. Tai Situ Rinpoche has identified Urgyen Trinley Dorje from Tibet whereas Sharma Rinpoche has identified Thaye Dorje from India. As a result, there now appears to be two 17th Karmapas. This has given rise to much confusion amongst the disciples.
What is worse is that when the Khenpos and Rinpoches of the Kagyu Lineage were asked to clarify the situation by their disciples, they mostly said they recognised both of them. But Tai Situ Rinpoche and Sharma Rinpoche do not recognise each other’s choice as the reincarnation of the 16th Karmapa. I think a controversial matter of this kind should be clarified by religious elders of the Kagyu Tradition. Recently, I was honoured with an opportunity to interview Thrangu Rinpoche. Not only is he a religious elder, he was also a religious teacher of Situ Rinpoche and Sharma Rinpoche. I think he is the most qualified Kagyu religious elder to clarify and inform us the truth.

Q:  Has there ever been such a problem within the Karmapa Lineage?

A:  H.H. The Karmapa is the first to reincarnate in the history of mankind. (A reincarnation is known as a Tulku in Tibetan) His Holiness has the longest lineage and the present Karmapa is the 17th reincarnation. Upon his passing, every Karmapa will go to the pure land and then in keeping with his aspirations, he will return to this world. There were questions as to who was the real Karmapa during the 8th, 10th and 12th reincarnations. However, by relying on their faith in the Karmapa and their determination to support and protect His Holiness, the disciples were able to resolve the matter on all the three different occasions. In the end, none of the incidents became a big problem.

Q:  Why were there controversies and why did they not become problems? What were the reasons?

A:  Usually, at the beginning of such a problem, there are two groups of people. Those in the first group do not have the capability and the psychic ability to identify the reincarnation of the Karmapa. Neither do they have the wisdom. What they rely on is their gift of the gab and mundane skill. So they doubt and question who really is the Karmapa. Those in the other group are true practitioners with accomplishment. Their wisdom enables them to know very clearly who is the real Karmapa. The moment there are these two different groups of people, there will be disagreement.

The Karmapa is the embodiment of Sakyamuni Buddha and all the Boddhisatvas and their spiritual activities and accomplishment. Therefore, he is supra-mundane and is not at all disturbed by such disagreements. Consequently, none of them ever became a problem.

Q:  According to Rinpoche, the controversy will eventually be resolved owing to the quality and merits of the Karmapa. But before that, disciples of the Karmapa are thrown into a state of disarray and confusion. Therefore, it is hoped that religious elders of the Kagyu Tradition, like Rinpoche, will enlighten the Kagyu followers. From Rinpoche’s point of view, how do they ascertain exactly who is the real Karmapa? If they do not know how to do it, they may not know their real Karmapa for the rest of their life.

A:  This is an important matter. It is a matter concerning the lineage of the whole tradition. I would like to use a simple analogy as an illustration. Assuming that there are two apples on the table, one of them is a real apple and the other, a fake. Should we be hungry for food, it would be good if we picked the real apple and threw away the fake. If we had done otherwise, we would go hungry. It is the same with the case of ascertaining correctly who is the real Karmapa and who is not. The consequences of a mistake are grave. Who has the ability to identify the real Karmapa and to teach the disciples how to differentiate? It is my duty and also the duty of the religious elders and senior Rinpoches within the Kagyu Lineage. I want to take up this responsibility now. I want to inform all my disciples unambiguously who is the real Karmapa and who is the Karmapa they must follow in their Dharma practice.

At the moment, two Karmapas have surfaced, one from India and the other from Tibet. In terms of worldly affairs, I have nothing to do with them. I am in Nepal. But in the course of my lineage practice, I constantly prayed to the 16th Karmapa for his help to enable me to know clearly and deeply in my mind who is the real 17th Karmapa. Praying with pure motivation and with the blessings of the 16th Karmapa, I have concluded with absolute certainty that Urgyen Trinley Dorje from Tibet is the 17th Karmapa. I have reached this conclusion from my own practice and the blessings of the Karmapa. We could also determine who is the real 17th Karmapa from the following:

First, there was a great Tibetan terton by the name of Chogyur Lingpa. In the record of his vision of the prophecies revealed to him, there are clear descriptions of various events in the life of the 1st to the 21st Karmapa. These descriptions include place of birth of the Karmapas and the names of their respective parents. According to this record of prophecies, Urgyen Trinley Dorje of Tsurphu Monastery is the real Karmapa.

Secondly, when I was with the 16th Karmapa, he wrote a prediction letter about his reincarnation when he was on his way to India from Tibet. After he arrived at Rumtek Monastery in Sikkim, he also wrote a letter in poetic form predicting his reincarnation. I had read both the letters myself. The first of the two letters stated clearly that Urgyen Trinley Dorje of Tibet is the 17th Karmapa. The second letter written in Rumtek, which I had read, again stated clearly that Urgyen Trinley Dorje of Tibet is the 17th Karmapa.

Thirdly, all the highly realized monks of the Vajrayana Buddhism, like H.H. the Dalai Lama, H.H. Sakya Trizin and many other compassionate religious practitioners, have in their wisdom said that Urgyen Trinley Dorje of Tibet is the 17th Karmapa.

I feel very fortunate to have obtained so much pure evidence; to have found the 17th Karmapa; to be able to prostrate to him. I hope all of you will generate pure motivation and also hope all of you will know that Urgyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa.

Consciously discard the fake apple. Reach for the real one. You will reap tremendous benefit.

Q:  Rinpoche said that the great terton master Chogyur Lingpa had written down prophecies about the 1st to the 21st Karmapa. What had he written about the prophecy for the 17th Karmapa?

A:  Chogyur Lingpa was a contemporary of the 13th Karmapa. The predictions were really for the 14th through to the 21st reincarnations. On the prediction about the 17th Karmapa, not much was written. Nevertheless, several important points were recorded. The first important point in the record mentions that the Karmapa was together with Tai Situ Rinpoche on a mountain with plenty of rocks and lush trees. Their minds are inseparably joined as one. On the 15th Karmapa, the record states that he achieved great accomplishment in his yoga practice of meditating on the bindus. The fact that the 15th Karmapa had dakinis with him showed that he did engage in the yoga practice mentioned in the prediction. The prediction on the 16th Karmapa was rather special. The record mentions a double storey building. The 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje was seated on the ground floor and a statue of Sakyamuni Buddha was placed on the first floor. This illustration clearly shows that the 16th Karmapa was a very pure bikkhu. It also shows that the 16th Karmapa had many pure bikkhu disciples. The description that the 17th Karmapa is together with Tai Situ Rinpoche is meant to show there is disagreement in this reincarnation and the mind of the 17th Karmapa and the mind of Tai Situ Rinpoche are inseparable from each other.

Q:  On the basis of the predictions made by Chogyur Lingpa, Rinpoche has concluded that Urgyen Trinley Dorje, who is together with Tai Situ Rinpoche, is the real Karmapa. In addition, Rinpoche has mentioned that you had read the two letters written by the 16th Karmapa. Could Rinpoche kindly tell us in detail the contents of these two letters?

A:  The first letter consisting of two pages was written by the 16th Karmapa when he was in Tibet. After his arrival in Sikkim, he asked a printing company called Camata to print quite a number of copies. Many had the chance to read this letter. The second letter was written in Rumtek, Sikkim. Again many had the chance to read it. After reading it himself, the Abbot of the Rumtek Monastery asked the Karmapa for permission to have the second letter printed for wider circulation. Not agreeing to have too many copies around, the Karmapa allowed only 50 copies to be made. The common salient point in these two letters was the mention of the return of the 16th reincarnation to Tibet. In particular, the first letter said, “I am now in India, but I will return to Tibet very soon”. The second letter also mentioned he would return to Tibet very soon. However, in his conversation with his disciples, he usually said, “I will not go back to Tibet”. But in both his letters, he said, “I will return to Tibet very soon”. Later on, his disciples realized that the main reason for him to say he would return to Tibet soon was to state his prediction that he would be enthroned in Tibet.

Q:  Rinpoche has given such invaluable information and insights to prove that Urgyen Trinley Dorje is the real Karmapa. Since it has been proven as such, how is Sharmapa able to oppose it? As he is a former student of Rinpoche, what reasons does he have to oppose and insist on different views from his former teacher?

A:  Before the 17th Karmapa was identified, I had spoken to Sharma Rinpoche regarding identifying the reincarnation. I had advised him not to do it (carrying out a different identification); not to create problem. For the sake of our master and for the sake of making a decision on this important matter, I hope all involved will disregard their own views and self-interest. But his relative (who has since passed away) was adamantly against my suggestion. Sharma Rinpoche did not accept my advice any more. Owing to those factors, I do not feel I should advise him again after that. This is because a practitioner of any Vajrayana method has no need to argue with anyone in his search for his master and refuge. This is very important.

Q:  I heard that Sharma Rinpoche had wanted to have the letter written by the 16th Karmapa examined by scientific methods. What was his reason that prompted him to make such a demand?

A:  The two letters mentioned earlier were not the prediction documents that Sharma Rinpoche wanted examined. Regarding forensic examination of the prediction documents, I personally think it is unnecessary, because the documents on reincarnation left by the past 15 Karmapas had never been subjected to forensic examination. Whenever there was a controversy, the disciples would finally resolve it with their faith in the Karmapa and his blessings. Similarly, in the present case, there is no need to have the documents examined by forensic experts. As a matter of fact, many high ranked monks and practitioners have through their compassion and wisdom pointed out clearly who is the Karmapa. All we need to do is to abide by what they say. Furthermore, forensic examination is used against criminals. The documents of prediction left behind by Karmapas are not only sacred but also blessed. Examining them as though they are documents left behind by criminals is rather strange from the religious point of view. On the basis of these two reasons, forensic examination of the documents is unnecessary.

Q:  Now there are two Karmapas in India. One of them is real and the other is not. Has Rinpoche considered enthroning Urgyen Trinley Dorje, wearing the black hat, at Rumtek Monastery in a ceremony attended by Their Holinesses, Rinpoches and Khenpos invited from the various schools of the Vajrayana Tradition in order to obtain their recognition? Is there such a plan?

A:  On the crowning with the black hat, it will be accomplished in due course, irrespective of whether we work hard towards it or we do not. Why? Because of his compassion and his aspiration to carry on with his Dharma activities to liberate all sentient beings, the Karmapa has returned to our fold of his own free will. With the power of such blessing, all Dharma activities of this nature will naturally come to fruition. There is no need for us to worry.

Q:  Quite a number of Karma Kagyu disciples are followers of Sharmapa. If after hearing your teaching, and they believe Urgyen Trinley Dorje is the real Karmapa, how are they going to face their teacher Sharmapa?

A:  The crux of the matter is the Karmapa lineage. It has to do with the purity of the whole Kagyu Lineage. This is because of the fact that in the Kagyu Lineage, the continuous transmission of all the blessing, Dharma practice, method, initiation, oral transmission, mantra and teaching come from the unbroken lineage of the Karmapas. In other words, if the Karmapa Lineage from the first to the 17th reincarnation is pure, then we will receive pure blessing in our practice. We can thus see that purity in the lineage is extremely important. This is the reason why we want to follow Karmapa Urgyen Trinley Dorje. If disciples of Sharmapa Rinpoche realize that the person chosen by him is not the real Karmapa and still think it is fine for them for as long as they follow Sharma Rinpoche because the issue of the real and fake Karmapa is immaterial to them, then their thinking is very wrong. As a matter of fact, they are cheating themselves. If you believe Urgyen Trinley Dorje is the Karmapa, your faith and the blessing of your master will quite naturally take you close to Karmapa Urgyen Trinley Dorje. In such a situation, you will naturally leave Sharma Rinpoche.

At this juncture, I must clarify that I am not giving this teaching from the side of Tai Situ Rinpoche. I am not saying all this to show support for Tai Situ Rinpoche or Gyaltsab Rinpoche. Neither am I trying to criticize Sharma Rinpoche or negate his stand. The real purpose of this discussion today is to explain clearly that in Vajrayana practice, in whom we take refuge is the most important matter. The person/image to whom we express our aspiration and say our prayer must be a clear and pure one. This is very important. A clear and pure person/image will be of tremendous help to the practitioners. If the person in whom we take refuge and to whom we say our prayer is a wrong one, then there will not be much good result in our practice. This point is what I want to stress very strongly today. My purpose is to let Karma Kagyu practitioners know where their true refuge is. I hope all of you understand clearly the purpose of today’s discussion is about true refuge. This topic is being discussed from the angle of Dharma practice.

Q:  According to Rinpoche’s teaching, Karma Kagyu practitioners take refuge in the Karmapa and visualize him as their Root Guru. If they take Sharmapa as their master and also believe Thaye Dorje as the Karmapa, then there should not be any problem. In the case of Karma Kagyu disciples who do not believe in Thaye Dorje but believe in Urgyen Trinley Dorje as the Karmapa, are they then betraying their master? How should they resolve this in their practice?

A:  I do not take sides, but I want to tell Kagyu disciples they must determine the correct spiritual path they want to follow in their Dharma practice. This is the most important thing to do. If we are Sharmapa’s disciples on the one hand and are doubtful about his ways on the other, we still have no need to criticize him. There is also no need for us to stay put and continue to learn Dharma from him. If you have faith in Urgyen Trinley Dorje, you will immediately and naturally turn to him for Dharma teaching.

Q:  If disciples of Sharma Rinpoche take refuge in Urgyen Trinley Dorje in their Dharma practice, from which Khenpos and Rinpoches should they learn Dharma?

A:  There is no need for them to criticise Sharma Rinpoche, but they can learn Dharma from many Rinpoches of Urgyen Trinley Rinpoche. How does one find a new guru? In order to find a guru, one must keep on observing. When the speech, conduct and Dharma teaching of a teacher make you feel that his lineage is pure, you will develop the confidence to learn Dharma from him. If a Rinpoche says, “come, be my disciple”, then something is not quite right with that Rinpoche. If one is not able to tell who is the real Karmapa and who is not, can one visualize both of them as Karmapas in one’s practice? There is a Tibetan saying: “one cannot succeed with two minds; one cannot sew with two needles”. Two minds means the absence of single-mindedness; one therefore cannot hope to achieve much. It is the same with visualizing Karmapa in Dharma practice. There are two types of people who visualise two Karmapas. The first type is made up of people who have no faith in either one, but have the belief that one of the two is the real Karmapa. As a result, their motivation for practice is only 50%. Their result reaped in the future will not be complete. Those in the second type are people who practiced under the 16th Karmapa. They are not sure if the 16th Karmapa has reincarnated and returned to the human realm. They think that whatever the situation is, it is best for them to follow the 16th Karmapa. Since he already passed away, they now visualize two 17th Karmapas and seek refuge under both. Their thinking is very erroneous. Nobody should visualize seeking refuge with a muddled head. There must be clear conviction in only one Karmapa and also in his return. In the 17th Karmapa one should take refuge.

I am Thrangu Tulku. Whether my reincarnation is one or many does not affect the Karma Kagyu Tradition very much. In the case of Karmapa, all along there is only one reincarnation at any one time. This is what the disciples must firmly believe.

Q:  Assuming that every disciple of the 16th Karmapa feels that since he took refuge in the 16th Karmapa and received the methods and Sadhanas from him, so he does not need to care who is the 17th Karmapa and in his practice, he just follows everything the 16th Karmapa taught him, can he do that?

A:  This is illogical. Take an example. I had faith in my father when I was of the age of 1 to 30. From 30 to 40 years old, I did not have faith in him. Then you tell me I still have faith in my father! Maybe. In the case of the Karmapa Lineage, Karmapa’s disciples must have sincere faith in the first Karmapa and in all his reincarnations, as well as the firm belief that the lineage is continuous and unbroken.

Q:  Rinpoche has repeatedly said that there is only one Karmapa. But I have heard recently that Karmapa could have body, speech, and mind reincarnations. There could be many Karmapa reincarnations. Is there only one Karmapa (at any one time) or are there many? In the Karmapa history, were there cases of a Karmapa giving rise to many reincarnations after he passed away?

A:  When some lamas took rebirth, they manifested body, speech, and mind reincarnations in order to expand their work of liberating all sentient beings wider. As for Karmapa, there is only one reincarnation at a time.

Q:  Lastly, there have been many Khenpos and Rinpoches who come to Singapore to spread the dharma. When asked who is the real Karmapa, they will as a rule not say whom they support. The reason is that they are on good terms with Sharma Rinpoche and do not wish to offend anybody. What are Rinpoche’s views on these lamas?

A:  There are indeed many Karma Kagyu lamas who give people the impression that they are neutral, not offending either parties. Lamas of this category do not really care for the practice of their disciples. They also do not really want to teach their disciples the correct Dharma. When you tell your disciples a particular Dharma teaching is correct, you cannot tell them in an ambiguous manner. You cannot have hesitation and reservation. Personally, I am not bothered by people’s criticism that I am always for the protection of Urgyen Trinley Dorje. My genuine concern is whether everyone of my disciples can follow a pure lineage and from this pure lineage, develop boddhicita and compassion for the attainment of enlightenment. My aspiration in giving Dharma teaching is to look after and care for every sentient being.

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And Dalai Lama briefs the young ones:

<span data-s9e-mediaembed="youtube" style="display:inline-block;width:100%;max-width:640px"><span style="display:block;overflow:hidden;position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe allowfullscreen="" loading="lazy" scrolling="no" style="background:url(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C7PoYsfpG9E/hqdefault.jpg) 50% 50% / cover;border:0;height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;width:100%" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C7PoYsfpG9E"></iframe></span></span><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/C7PoYsfpG9E&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/C7PoYsfpG9E&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

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Anyway, posted this cause the dalai lama is getting up there in age, and for the last two years has spoken about a successor, which China totally said 'cant do that breaks tradition!' And where the Black and Yellow hat lamas have had issues in past - definitely many young tibetans do look at the Black hat lama the oldest of the lamas per reincarnating to come back. So if something did happen to HH Dalai Lama, then the focus may go, for some time, strongly to the Karmapa lama, if they can get past the controversy on 'who' he is, but in all likelihood, this will be the one (but still the other will have followers - but really I dont feel the two are concerned but the followers are more than they are).


The World's Next Top Lama

By David Van Biema/New York Thursday, May. 15, 2008
Ugen Trinley Dorjee, the Karmapa speaks to the crowd on eco tourism at the Tibetan Children's Village School in Dharmsala, India, Monday, March 24, 2008.
Ugen Trinley Dorjee, the Karmapa, speaks to the crowd on eco tourism at the Tibetan Children's Village School in Dharmsala, India, Monday, March 24, 2008.
Ashwini Bhatia / AP


To the apparent astonishment and delight of his American retinue, the baby-faced 22-year-old who may one day replace the Dalai Lama as the world symbol of Tibetan Buddhism and icon of Tibetan aspirations said today, on his first trip here, that he hoped he might be able to spend two months a year in the United States, raising the possibility that in decades to come, America could become an important focus for that community.
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Ogyen Trinley Dorje, the 17th Karmapa, or head of the Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism, sat at his ease in a throne-like overstuffed chair, rimless rectangular glasses perched on his pleasantly round, shaven head, a yellow shirt peeking out from underneath a dark red robe, feet in pebbled brown loafers. Reputedly stern, the Karmapa, who spent half an hour with TIME, was both remarkably well-tempered and focused for a man who had just come off a 14-hour flight — by far his longest since he arrived in India eight years ago as a teenager after a swashubuckling escape from China by foot, horseback and plane. Asked whether he had slept on on his way here, he replied in English, "Sleep, but not well. Lot of..." and he did an expert mime of transatlantic turbulence.

Dorje's two-week American trip, which will include stops in New York City, the Kagyu center in Seattle and the vast monastery his adherents have nearly completed in Woodstock, N.Y as his American seat, is a literal "coming out." The Indian government, wary of relations with China, had not until now allowed the young man, whom the Dalai Lama had taken under his wing, to travel internationally. Followers here who have not seen their leader since his predecessor died in 1981 (they believe four years passed before his reincarnation) will bask in his attention and teachings. "The previous Karmapa visited the U.S. several times and his dharma activity here was vast," he said (this time through a translator). "It is my hope to continue that." He added, "My work is not going to be conducted only among other Buddhists, but to help everyone." He also said he wants to "look at things not only from a Buddhist perspective," but from the viewpoint of other faiths as well — a tall order.

And although he confirmed an adviser's caution that Kagyu leaders have no tradition of engaging in politics, he noted, "As far as I'm concerned, the situation in Tibet, particularly the political situation, has reached a level of emergency." He sees his teacher as a major player in dealing with it: "The Dalai Lama is both the spiritual and secular leader of all the Tibetan people, and is recognized as such all over the world, and the Dalai Lama has a tremendous responsibility in his great efforts to bring about a peaceful resolution." But he noted that "in the Tibetan tradition we regard the connection between a lama and his spiritual teacher to be sacred." And "like all Tibetans, I will continue to support him in this as best I can in the future."

Indeed, when the Dalai Lama, currently a relatively healthy 72, dies, the Karmapa could end up his replacement as the face of Tibet. He could never be the next Dalai Lama. "Karmapa," like "Dalai Lama," is its own reincarnate title. Nor could he become the hands-on political leader of a Tibetan government or government-in-exile, a job the Dalai Lama has ceded to a prime minister. But a recent YouTube video shows the Dalai Lama talking to the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, the 19-year-old reincarnation of another high monk. The older man tells them, "You two... are still young, and when I die you will be the ones who continue by work." In the video, the Karmapa starts slightly, and his eyes roll back a moment before he regains composure.

The video, which seems authentic, reinforces sentiments the Dalai Lama expressed in public in 2001 and acknowledges the Karmapa's unique portfolio. The Karmapa is traditionally regarded as the third most important person in Tibetan Buddhism after the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, who disappeared years ago and whose replacement, picked by the Chinese, is not recognized by most Tibetans. He is unusual among a new generation of leaders because of his birth and training as a high lama in Tibet. He speaks fluent Chinese, and attracted numerous Chinese adherents before fleeing. The Karmapa's close relationship with the Dalai Lama knits up a historic tension between their two lineages, and helps make him a unifying figure.

Robert Thurman, an expert in Tibetan Buddhism at Columbia University who knows the Dalai Lama well, has had repeated contact with the Karmapa and will soon publish a book titled Why the Dalai Lama Matters, worries that "if [the Karmapa] is pressured by devotees to travel and teach too much at too young an age at the expense of his studies," it could prevent him from "manifesting his full strength." But if he is allowed to mature, says Thurman, "50 years from now my son may have to write a book saying Why the Karmapa Matters."

Meanwhile, for the head of a major Tibetan lineage to spend a sixth of every year in the United States would be a tremendous boost for the Buddhist community here. The Karmapa's p.r. representative claims he has attained a near sell-out of 21,000 seats at teachings he will give here (starting with one Saturday at Manhattan's Hammerstein Ballroom) almost solely on the strength of e-mail chains. Many in the audience will be his age. When a reporter noted that the Kagyu lineage is known for its stress on practice and that his own generation is not known for its patience, the Karmapa delivered some advice that his American followers could no doubt appreciate. "If people have no patience," he said, "they have no patience, and I can't insist that they develop it. But I've observed that human life without patience becomes unworkable. My experience has been that I've been forced to develop patience with unchangeable situations." It is a virtue to recommend as well to those hoping for a solution for Tibet's status.

[Firestarter]

Ogyen Trinley Dorje: the Next Dalai Lama?
By DAVID VAN BIEMA Thursday, May. 29, 2008
The 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje




The Lowdown on the new arrival had been that he was brilliant but austere. "He's not jolly like the Dalai Lama," warned an American devotee. "He's a bit stiff." But the baby-faced 22-year-old who may be Tibet's next great hope seemed perfectly relaxed in his room at New York City's Waldorf Towers hotel, none the worse for his first intercontinental flight. Encountering a laptop-bearing reporter, Ogyen Trinley Dorje inquired eagerly about the computer; like his mentor, he's apparently a Mac fan. Asked if he'd managed to sleep on the plane, he replied, "Sleep, but not well. Lot of ..." Then, his maroon robe dancing, the 17th reincarnated head of Tibetan Buddhism's Kagyu sect offered an enthusiastic mime of a bumpy transoceanic flight.
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It bodes well for Dorje that he is able to make light of turbulence. As the Karmapa, Tibetan Buddhism's third-ranking personage, he has carried the immeasurable burden of his people's expectations, supernatural and worldly, since he was first recognized at age 7 by a religious search party. The delegation was following the directions in a "prediction letter" left in a locket by the previous Karmapa when he died in 1981; it included Dorje's birth year, parents' names (Dondrub and Loga) and a location. According to followers of the Kagyu branch of Buddhism, the child persuaded his nomad parents to break camp early in order to be in the right place when the searchers arrived. Within months, he was installed in the Karmapa's Tsurphu Monastery as a near divine bodhisattva--or enlightened being--and, by extension, a player in the perilous world of Sino-Tibetan politics.

Just how perilous was confirmed in 1995, when the Chinese government forcibly replaced the second-ranking personage, the Panchen Lama, with its own nominee. Most Tibetans rejected Beijing's choice, and many worried that the Karmapa might suffer a similar fate. But in 1999, the 14-year-old, in disguise, clambered out of a monastery window and was spirited on foot and by horseback and helicopter to India, becoming the Tibetan diaspora's teen hero in the process. A nervous Indian government refused to let him travel abroad for eight years.

In that time, the Dalai Lama has personally prepped the boy for a leadership role far beyond the Karmapa's Kagyu lineage. Although an active 72, the senior monk knows that after his death it may be years before his reincarnation is identified and then groomed to adulthood. Until then, the mantle of leadership could well rest with the Karmapa.

It's easy to see something of the Dalai Lama in his pupil. The Karmapa is a sturdy young man, spectacles clinging to his round shaved head, pebbled brown half boots peeking out from beneath the robe. He actually does smile, and even jokes, impishly describing the stop-start-stop process of New York traffic. He appears to be that rare combination: a born listener who speaks with almost utter assurance, even on controversial subjects. Before his visit, his American retinue stressed that the Kagyu lineage is historically apolitical, but in person he was less circumspect, telling Time, "As far as I'm concerned, the situation in Tibet, particularly the political situation, has reached a level of emergency." As the Dalai Lama's pupil, Dorje feels he must "continue to support [his mentor's political role] as best I can in the future."

The U.S. is his natural first destination; his predecessor, the 16th Karmapa, loved the country and died in a hospital outside Chicago. But Dorje also seems interested in a political connection. In a pretrip video, he described his religious goals but also expressed the hope that "by connecting with a powerful country such as the United States ... my own abilities to bring peace to the world ... will be enhanced." He says he'd like to spend two months a year in the U.S.

His religious plans are adventurous, too. He wants to be a "21st century religious leader," reaching beyond those of his faith. "My work is not going to be conducted only among other Buddhists," he said, "but to help everyone." He showcased that accessibility in a teaching to a packed house at Manhattan's Hammerstein Ballroom on May 17. The speech was filled with easy-to-grasp metaphors: If the world and its cares are a 200-lb. weight, he said, the mind can be a mirror reflecting the weight without carrying the poundage. His audience, Western and Tibetan, was charmed. Said Kunchok Dolma, 25, a student from a New York City Tibetan family: "I feel an elevated sort of happiness."

Some well-wishers have reservations. Robert Thurman, an expert in Tibetan Buddhism and a longtime friend of the Dalai Lama's, says Dorje could indeed become the next "face" of his people. But he warns against pressuring the young monk into too much travel and teaching too soon. "He needs a period of practice and study to manifest his full strength," says Thurman. "When I met the Dalai Lama when he was 28, he did not have the level of charismatic power that he does now." Some of his followers worry, too, that the lure of the road might distract Dorje from his people in China and India. But as he demonstrated on his first trip to the U.S., the young monk knows where he wants to go. And he's prepared for some turbulence along the way.

[Firestarter]

And the other. I do agree as its said he's right per the Dalai Lama, different sects and like the other article it doesnt require the Dalai Lama's recognition of a Karmapa:



The Gyalwa KARMAPA     
Past and Present Tradition

THE 17th GYALWA KARMAPA'S ACTIVITIES IN THE WORLD

The Gyalwa Karmapa

What is your main impression of Southeast Asia ?

I was very impressed by the strong belief that people have in the Buddha's teachings. Of course, one cannot generalize. However, I met with many sincere Dharma practitioners and with people who are simply interested in the Dharma. I am very happy about this - it is great to recall it. This is what mainly comes to my mind when I think about the journey.

You have already given a number of TV, radio and magazine interviews. How is that for you ?

The interviews I gave were related to Buddhism. Since I am the spiritual leader of one of the major traditions of Tibetan Buddhism, I was asked about my views and my activities. Well, my activity is to teach the Dharma and to help people in this respect. At first I did not feel very comfortable in front of the cameras, but eventually I got used to it.

In some places you were treated with very special honours, rather like a god, and not like a normal person. How was that for you ?

It is totally wrong to see a lama like some kind of supramundane being. A lama is someone who shows the path to enlightenment, and that's it. He's simply a teacher. It is similar with the Three Jewels: you can rely on the Buddha and the Sangha because they've been through this samsara, know what it is and how to overcome all this suffering; the Dharma is the path for this aim. This kind of special treatment that you mentioned, I really don't expect it and I don't want it; it is not important for me. All I want is to help people to find real happiness. And here I'm not just talking about happiness in this samsaric world. What I mean is the real happiness that is achieved in the state of liberation. I myself go through my spiritual practices in order to become able to guide others on this path. It is for this sake that I am getting the teachings from all the high lamas, teachers and professors.

How is a Karmapa recognized ?

The main holders of the Karma kagyu Lineage are the so-called Black Hat Karmapas and the Red Hat Karmapas. The first refers to my own line of reincarnations. The latter refers to the line of reincarnations of the Kunzig Shamarpas. In many cases the Karmapas have recognized the respective Shamarpas and in turn the Shamarpas recognize the next Karmapa. This is also what has occured with respect to my recognition: it was the 14th Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche who confirmed that I am the incarnation of the 16th Karmapa.

Of course, the whole principle of reincarnation is not easy to understand, in particular if one is not familiar with Buddhism. Normally, samsaric beings are reborn through the power of their karma and their emotions. In the case of the successive lines of the Karmapa reincarnations, it's different. Taking rebirth happens due to the wish to be reborn to help sentient beings. In this way I took rebirth as the 17th Karmapa.

The Dalai Lama has not recognized you as the Karmapa. Would such recognition be important for you ?

The Dalai Lama is certainly a great man. The Karma Kagyu school, however, is an independant lineage and according to our tradition, the Karmapas have to be confirmed in this Karma Kagyu lineage and not by the Dalai Lama. There is no need for that.

What is your position regarding Urgyen Trinley ?

I hope that he will be able to help people by teaching Buddhism.

Does that mean that you don't mind that there is another Karmapa besides yourself ?

Within the lineage, there can, of course, be only one Karmapa. I personally hope that this issue will soon be resolved.

How will it practically go on now that there are two factions in the Karma Kagyu School ?

Whether there are one or two groups doesn't really matter. What matters is that people benefit, and for that it is essential that the teachings transmitted in the Kagyu tradition remain intact. In fact, there is no division. Many people talk about it, true, however what matters is the Dharma as such, and the Dharma is not divided. People who don't really understand the Dharma think there is a division; they think about institutions. For an authentic Dharma practitioner, however, there is no split; for this type of person there is only the Dharma.

 

The interview was held and translated from the Tibetan by Mag. Tina Draszczyk.
(Translator at the Karmapa International Buddhist Institute in New Delhi, India)