Topic: Discipline and or Freedom??

[Zamurito]

I was reading a couple discussions over on RS, and what popped into my mind was a thought of Freedom vs Discipline.

I supposed we'd have to define these two terms, first.  But...

Even without formal definitions, as I'm sure most everyone's definitions will be different, we still have a general idea of what these two terms mean.

Seems there's several thought processes here.

Choo got the Freedom thinkers...."Don't do anything that impinges on my Freedoms!"  (Whatever that means.) 

Choo got the Discipline thinkers..."You must do it this way, that way, structured."  (Whatever that means.) 

I suppose I can only speak for myself. 

As my Life and perceptions have changed, so have my views on this.  As I was raised in a conservative environment I was more the discipline style.  Many years in the Army solidified this as well.  A great deal of structure, discipline and concentration galore. 

As I've spent a good deal of time in the civilian world nowadays, I see the Freedom thinkers and those with a bit more open-mindedness if you will.  As my base was formed in a bit more disciplined view, I viewed others (and judge them) in the light of many lacking any discipline.  "Those Freedom lovers, good god!  What do they think they're freeing??  From what??  They are just lacking in discipline and are lazy, not wanting to really Do any work."  I've also judged the discipline fanatics.  "Wow, what a small world they live in.  What they do, they do it well, but they don't have any vision!  Why can't they see the big picture?" 

I've come to look a bit deeper inside myself and it's interesting how I view this.  What I've seen is that these two terms are not opposed to each other.  I've found that with a good amount of detachment and freedom I've managed to view my world quite differently.  I've also found that discipline is needed to keep my concentration to bring anything to completion.

Language is yet another matter in conveying our thoughts, yet that's not what I'm looking for.

Maybe I'm missing the point, as I'm writing this on the fly, but I'm sure the general meaning of what I'm getting at is coming through. 

How do YOU view these terms?  What's YOUR take on this?  What do YOU do?

Thoughts?

Zammy

[tommy2]

My freedom comes from my self-discipline.  "Old school" logic and ethics, I guess, are what makes sense to me.  Pride in stepping up to the plate and doing my best or just walking away and not worrying about it.  And this self-discipline is surely not a hard thing.  It is a fun thing because it always reminds me that I am not a lazy person in any way.  I work hard, study hard, craft hard, love hard, pray hard (hard, as in intensity and impeccability) but offer a softness in simplicity and grace.  I do not push myself in life, though, because my efforts are ingrained in habits built over a lifetime. 

Self-pride does not have to imply selfishness.  It is knowing I am not afraid to risk failure in order to be successful.  It is being not afraid to try newness and wear originality with authenticity.

And, maybe, it's just being able to look in the mirror and honestly know my Will is alive and well and that I have never had to try to be a good boy.  I just am. 

tommy

[nichi]

"Freedom" is one of those cultural illusions .. I've come to see it this way, for me:
Freedom for me means that if I am bound, I choose to be, by virtue of my own sense of honor and desire to move into death and infinity with my consciousness in tact. The bond and the bind require discipline and fortitude. Perhaps I could say that I am "free" to choose my bonds.

But then again, I wonder even about that. It often strikes me that spirit has a lot to do with it, and that in the end, I've "acquiesced", not chosen.

Keep moving ... however you slice it all up, keep in motion. You'd be surprised how much discipline that motion requires.