Topic: The second coming

[Taimyr]

Basically you are talking about something that you imagine should be true? Or do you already live in a world of energy where there is no duality? Is it your reality what you talk about?

You can't talk about something where you haven't been yourself, because then it's only an interpretation.

The reality for me at the moment is that I clearly see that humanity generally doesn't choose evolution. I still live in a world where we are separate beings and I can't possibly imagine how it will be in the position of so called oneness. It kind of feels like instead of actually being in this oneness state, you are just trying to close your eyes from seeing the reality, thinking, we are all one anyway and everything is fine.

Where does this idea come from, that everything is equal? How does it help anyone on their path?

Of course there is lots of beauty and good things in the world, but I don't think we should be blind and only try to see the so called positive. Don't you think that is very dual thinking? Concentrate on the good and ignore the bad?

There is more to this that I didn't delve into.

Everything in life appears in the form of duality. Everything can be symbolically represented by masculinity, and femininity. Even the most masculine contains femininity, and the dividing lines are never clearly drawn. Its a lot of semantics. The world of energy is beyond this symbolism, and semantics. Entering the world of energy, and manifesting that energy into the world of form is, from my perspective of highest moral importance. Everything else morally speaking falls into place from this position.

Yet to enter the world of energy the dividing line between you and I must melt away. The line that divides garden from me. The mental line that makes me think of the garden as mine, instead of me belonging to the garden. To do so we leave the head, and open the heart. We feel our world from a place of silence.

The principle of reciprocity, or the golden rule that we were discussing, is a tool to help melt the dividing line between you, and I. All truly ethical systems could be thought of as tools to help melt that dividing line between you, and I. Between subject who is perceiving, and the Other-object that is being perceived. The way is to see the you in them. If you are able to recognize a particular quality in them, perhaps it is in part because of that quality in you. Then you can not stop there. You see ugliness, or immorality in someone, or in a group, you have to look for that in yourself. You have to shift your perception to see yourself as ugly, and accept that perception of yourself as equally true to any other perception of yourself.

Don't stop with a one sided internal paradigm. That is once you see yourself as ugly, you have to remember the principle of duality that there is always beauty in ugliness. Find the beauty in your own ugliness. Keep doing this with every quality until you no longer care about the difference between different qualities. Till right and wrong doesn't matter anymore, as you can see the right in the wrong, and that it all equals out.

Then something interesting is found.

Every-thing is equal.

Something is valuable by comparison and contra-position. This thing is a certain degree of value, because something else has been deemed of less value. I derive my meaning of beauty in part by its comparison to what I have deemed to be ugly.

If everything is equal then no-thing matters.

If value is determined by saying that something is more than something that is less, but in actuality no such fixed value differences exists. That is, what is of one value this moment, is a different value in another moment...and time itself isn't of fixed, or linear orientation, than we can not objectively speaking designate a fixed value. Then in the big picture every value equals out, but that also means that no real values exist at all.
I.e. morality isn't real.

Oh, crap I've contradicted a previous statement!

I stated that living from the world of energy was of the highest moral importance. Wait, no contradiction at all. Actually if every-thing is objectively speaking of zero value. That is every material, every object, every form is of zero value, then what actually matters is the world that isn't composed of 'things'.

If every-thing matters equally, then no-thing matters.

Is this what is meant by living is if we are already dead? Is the attainment of this when the inner and outer shells of our being separate, and we have achieved substantial depth of presence? If nothing is of value it is as if we are dead, but then if we have done our due diligence we see this is only the superficial layer of reality. Once all that we clung to is no longer worth clinging to, we sink down within, into our inner life body. Into the awareness of what makes you sentient. From this place you can feel the difference between the value of energy, and the value of form. This is the beginning of true discrimination. Until this distinction is made you have not discovered what it means to reason. I would posit that we are all on this forum, because to varying degrees we all have some awareness of this distinction. You can get an idea of how clearly someone understands this distinction, by how clearly they understand the equality of all things. You can feel how deeply they under-stand by whether or not higher energy is manifested into their outer form-world.

Every-thing becomes of the highest value only when we know the value of no-thing.

Now you no longer project your value onto the world. You channel higher energy into the world, and as a result every-thing is seen as having objective value.

[Taimyr]

Inside the human world I can say that everything is equal. It doesn't make a difference if what people do is good or bad. Because even the so called good doesn't change anything and doesn't matter and the so called bad can actually help someone to make some realisations.

But in the bigger picture it is "right" to choose evolution. And it is a fact that most of humaity doesn't choose it. No matter how positive I try to think or convince myself that it's a matter of perspective, still the reality is what it is.

Some like to think that the world around us is how we perceive it. It is true to some extent but some thing are what they are and they don't change into something else if we think about them differently. We can think about them from different perspectives regards to our own situation, but if we step outside ourselves, then they are what they are.

[Jahn]

Well... they can do what ever they want, but that doesn't mean I am blind about humanity's choices.

There was a time when Toltecs ruled the World and did care about society. But today no ordinary Toltec warrior engage in humanity, or their choices. There are exceptions, like Nelson Mandela and Dalai Lama, but they are rare.

[Jahn]

We can think about them from different perspectives regards to our own situation, but if we step outside ourselves, then they are what they are.

Have you ever stepped out of your mental (constructed/socialisation/domestic) inventory?

[Taimyr]

Yes I have. Otherwise I couldn't look at humaness from aside.

Have you ever stepped out of your mental (constructed/socialisation/domestic) inventory?

[runningstream]

i think it comes back to your attention

like first attention being the world of objects

second attention being a world of dreams "for me"

third attention being a world of dreams and objects

and upward and downward "evolution"  being polarising to degrees separation

both capable of finding a neutral end to the selection


the dreamer can find a dream that selects more of itself and close the gap

on the polarisation

which can also come close to the neutral


the indulgence can go either way then


a circle

cancelling itself out by following itself back to a spot in rationality


more energy


or rather being freed up of the already utilised energy


means shifting the focus away from the 'obsessive self concern'


because a lot of that self concern is generated by witnessing the first attention

drama which can be felt as that heavy solidity and weight of thinking and being


dreaming in the first attention wholly

requires placing the attention which is noticed when the concern is dropped

as a different way of navigating



the bands required to dream awake this way drop the socialisation and usual order



and engage more entire awareness even reaching the whole and can move the

whole


as feeding streams into their/our agreement world



that added awareness through the reduction of social norms


influences through timeless nature what is perceived to be real

as the first attention


and what newly is recognised to be not so real when dreaming third instead


so it would seem acknowledging the first as fixed would be correct yet its the

dropping the fixed which makes the difference


that takes energy and that s why Don Juan told Carlos also 

it s not What i do so much as What i don t do

[Nick]

Some like to think that the world around us is how we perceive it. It is true to some extent but some thing are what they are and they don't change into something else if we think about them differently. We can think about them from different perspectives regards to our own situation, but if we step outside ourselves, then they are what they are.

Ah...

In my previous post you questioned whether or not I experience reality the way I was describing things. Or if it was just an interpretation of things. The answer is, at this very moment no, I do not. But everything I described is based off of experiences I have had in the past, during which I did 'see' the world in the way I describe.

I also wasn't describing a state of complete one-ness, though I do believe, based off of the other experiences I have had, that such is possible.

The first time I was in a car waiting for my father to return from the bank, I was maybe about 13. I was pondering what is value, why do things matter, why are things important. A switch flipped in my mind, and I understood that nothing matters. This doesn't mean we don't act as if things matter, but inside we realize they don't, and we remain minimally effected by the external world. In this instance I wasn't experiencing oneness. I only realized that value is subjective, and I that I do not need to cling to my interpretation value.

A big part in coming to the above realization was the fact that what is of value in one context is not of value in a slightly different context. If this is true it is better to not designate fixed value, but instead be ready for whatever comes in the moment. There is not universal absolute fixed right or wrong. You can present any scenario, and I can show you how it isn't absolute, universal, or fixed in stone. Even the golden rule, which is almost universal.

The next time I was out walking my dog Hershey, and pondering "who am I". In this experience I did still see the world of form around me, but I also became aware of a new facet to this world. I could 'sense' the underlying essence of things. In this experience I knew with my whole body that the 'essence' of my being is deeply connected to the 'essence' of everything around me. 

Those are just two of the several experiences I have had that point in the direction of what we are discussing.

Also in the previous post I made I provide an exercise, that you could try. If you try it, and are diligent with it, it will shift your perception of reality.

If you ponder what I said in depth you will also likely look at your world differently.

I am very curious what you mean by "step outside ourselves"... I get the sense you mean something different from what I would be saying with that phrase.

[Nick]

a circle

cancelling itself out by following itself back to a spot in rationality


more energy


dropping the fixed which makes the difference


that takes energy and that s why Don Juan told Carlos also 

it s not What i do so much as What i don t do

[Nick]

Basically you are talking about something that you imagine should be true? Or do you already live in a world of energy where there is no duality? Is it your reality what you talk about?

You can't talk about something where you haven't been yourself, because then it's only an interpretation.

The reality for me at the moment is that I clearly see that humanity generally doesn't choose evolution. I still live in a world where we are separate beings and I can't possibly imagine how it will be in the position of so called oneness. It kind of feels like instead of actually being in this oneness state, you are just trying to close your eyes from seeing the reality, thinking, we are all one anyway and everything is fine.

Where does this idea come from, that everything is equal? How does it help anyone on their path?

Of course there is lots of beauty and good things in the world, but I don't think we should be blind and only try to see the so called positive. Don't you think that is very dual thinking? Concentrate on the good and ignore the bad?

It is fairly clear you didn't think much about my post. If you had you wouldn't use the above argument about positive thinking. If you had actually thought about it in depth before replying, you would realize nothing I said had anything to do with positive thinking.

What I posted doesn't require an experience of oneness to understand. I mean if you really want to get it, then yes some experience of the connection between you and I is of value. It also isn't an experience that is hard to achieve, just spend some time meditating with longing on the eyes of someone you feel deeply for, gradually your mirror neurons will activate, and you will taste some of what it is like to be the other person.

Still even without oneness, just think about how what is masculine in one context is not masculine in another. The great seducers throughout history realized that they were most attractive when they accentuated there inner opposite sexuality. 

My post was about seeing through a world created by any kind of thinking.

Why do we practice inner silence meditation? What does this meditation do? What is the point of silencing our inner world?

[Taimyr]

I would say, that this is what I call looking at humaness from aside. Then we realise that nothing that humans do, or in the world we see, doesn't matter. BUT, human world is not all there is In the end I suppose everyone will determine for themselves what matters and what not. I mean it does matter to you do have spiritual intent? You might as well drop it all, forget and it doesn't matter? Doesn't make any difference at all?

I had an experience as well when I was a child, about everything being one. But I remember just knowing it, not the exact feeling. I also saw thin colorful energy lines connecting everything to everything else.

The first time I was in a car waiting for my father to return from the bank, I was maybe about 13. I was pondering what is value, why do things matter, why are things important. A switch flipped in my mind, and I understood that nothing matters. This doesn't mean we don't act as if things matter, but inside we realize they don't, and we remain minimally effected by the external world. In this instance I wasn't experiencing oneness. I only realized that value is subjective, and I that I do not need to cling to my interpretation value.

[Jahn]

I was pondering what is value, why do things matter, why are things important. A switch flipped in my mind, and I understood that nothing matters. This doesn't mean we don't act as if things matter, but inside we realize they don't, and we remain minimally effected by the external world.

That is right, nothing matters. But a warrior act as if it does. That is the first step of Controlled Folly, to act as if it matters.

More than that, a warrior do not give away crucial events to randomness. A warrior prepare his coming events down to every detail.

[Jahn]

Yes I have. Otherwise I couldn't look at humaness from aside.

From where then, does the moral stuff come from? Animals and humans, homos and heteros, people that don't care and those that do, good and bad etc.
And please do not try the evolution agenda as a reason.

A naked child look at the humaness from aside.

[Jahn]

I had an experience as well when I was a child, about everything being one. But I remember just knowing it, not the exact feeling. I also saw thin colorful energy lines connecting everything to everything else.

Not until we reach the age of three years, we are about to get individual (separate beings).
During age 0-2 we are in the Nagual wave (with no own Tonal) and not fully separated from our parents (esp. mother).

Our luminous bodies are connected to our environment with energy lines that cannot be seen (within the optic range of light).

[Taimyr]

I haven't talked about moral. Obviously it is not in my capacity to further explain what I am actually talking about.

A naked child is also a human and can't look at humanness from aside Well I think that a child doesn't have the life experience and a developed brain to think about complex things and also doesn't have a advanced awareness to see beyond human existence.

To see beyond, I guess we need the double. But double is not the same as human, if you really become connected to your double, you become aware of stuff you couldn't even imagine before. What I have understood that if you keep surprising yourself, that is a an indicator of progress.

From where then, does the moral stuff come from? Animals and humans, homos and heteros, people that don't care and those that do, good and bad etc.
And please do not try the evolution agenda as a reason.

A naked child look at the humaness from aside.

[Jahn]

A naked child is also a human and can't look at humanness from aside Well I think that a child doesn't have the life experience and a developed brain to think about complex things and also doesn't have a advanced awareness to see beyond human existence.

Some misunderstanding here. It is the adult with all adult experiences that has the eye of the naked child. One become viewing the world as a child without pretense and masks (naked). Children up to a certain age are actually experiencing the world more natural and they are more in the flow than adults.

But the "naked child" means the pure man without judgement and assumptions or conclusions about the world and their fellow being.