Topic: Danger

[Michael]

Carl Jung believed that the Hindu mind/world-view was very dangerous to the Western mind.

This means the whole gods thing, the style of worship, and especially the deeper philosophical cosmology. He believed it can act like a seed of destruction in the mind of a person brought up in the western world. The seed at first is a play thing, but eventually it can seriously unbalance the mind, as it is so different. He is not the only one to have put this forward.

I have never had trouble, but then there are always individual cases. And also, he was speaking before the sixties, when a flood of eastern thought patterns prepared the western mind, in a way those before did not have the advantage of.

So I have taken the view that it is no longer as dangerous as it may have been previously. And based on my own experiences, I tended to feel the 'cancerous' effect on the stability of the western mind, was not so serious as he had believed.

However two things have caused me some pause here.

The first is that in the past few years I have delved much deeper into the matrix of Hindu thought and its sensuousness of worship. It is still not my main guiding compass, but I find an inner delight and inner compatibility, plus plenty of room for me to maintain my own unique approach - ie no constraint in my primary intent.

But as I go deeper, I am made aware just how different it is to western thought patterns. Hindus swim in their religion, and the ocean they swim in is filled with the most fantastic colour and shapes. They swim with every part of their being, they touch, they taste, they smell, they wallow in the sensuous immediacy of the gods, in all their horror and glory. There is nothing in the west to equate with this complete self-consumption within their sacred-secular world.

I can see that this full-on approach in a phantasmogorical world is profoundly disturbing to the foundation of the western mind.

The second, is the recent events, where a certain member of our group, perhaps bit off too much too soon. This has been a lesson to me, that anyone opening themselves to the Hindu world, should go very slowly, and ensure digestion is complete after each bite.

So I place this warning here, that Hinduism may look like a lot of fun, but it presupposes a whole new way of stabilization. I would suggest Buddhism is sufficiently disturbing - it carries the deepest challenges within it, while avoiding the festival of the fantastic. And if you want a little of that, then Tibetan Buddhism is a good medium point. Just remember that Buddhism grew out of Hinduism, and slippery slides run all the way down from the Himalayas into the cess-pit of the Vedic orgy.

[Jennifer-]

Thank you for this Michael, Ive recently been exploring a bit of this and have found it all most interesting.

Ill remember to walk only softly.

I let bits and pcs soak in where they strike truth to me.. Ive found alot of them in exploring Hinduism.

Walking softly, Jennifer

[Gunslinger]

There are many ways for people to experience insanity, if they so choose.  I'm not judging Eastern or Western religions or non-religions good or bad.

The Soto Zen practice of sitting on a cushion looking at a blank wall for 30 minutes a day drives most westerners sufficiently nuts, anyway.

Thank you for posting this.

[erik]

Nothing like killing of Buddha in Hinduism, huh?
Fluid swimming in all of them?

[Josh]

But as I go deeper, I am made aware just how different it is to western thought patterns. Hindus swim in their religion, and the ocean they swim in is filled with the most fantastic colour and shapes. They swim with every part of their being, they touch, they taste, they smell, they wallow in the sensuous immediacy of the gods, in all their horror and glory. There is nothing in the west to equate with this complete self-consumption within their sacred-secular world.

This is a certified religion of scorn and vengeance directed at all of THEM, the enemies of us Outsiders. It is "self-help" thorugh scoffing and blaspheming, frenzied fornication and the Thumping of Graven Images. The Church provides answers and miracles in the service of SUREAVOLUTION.

The Church of the SubGenius is the ultimate secret order, the superior brain cult for those who "know better" but who demand in the LUST for GRINS a spectacular, special-effects-laden belief system -- a 'stuporstition.'

This religion, devised by precise mathematical formulae, weirder than the most obscure UFO/Atlantis cults, is invaluable to all superior renegades who, at any time, are justifiably on the edge of insanity and can be made whole only by developing a seventh sense of BLUDGEON HUMOR.

The Church of the SubGenius is the PAN-RELIGION of the FUTURE, and REBELS against the namby-pamby, goody two-shoes "NEW AGE" and "AQUARIAN" ideals of most occult weirdos. Such people are fools, they do not curse, they have no understanding of the need for spiritual violence in this modern space-age a-go-go society.

The SubGenius wants no part of the "New Age," it is already here and it obviously sucks. The SubGenius would rather RETRIEVE the manly Past, before 1971 or even 1953, or else dwell in the naughty, fun-loving REMOTE FUTURE, a strange time when anything made of plastic is a valuable antique that collectors will KILL for, when SEXHURT will be recognized and indulged in as sane human nature no matter whether any 'church' or 'government' allows it. But such things are TRIFLES!

[nichi]

But as I go deeper, I am made aware just how different it is to western thought patterns. Hindus swim in their religion, and the ocean they swim in is filled with the most fantastic colour and shapes. They swim with every part of their being, they touch, they taste, they smell, they wallow in the sensuous immediacy of the gods, in all their horror and glory. There is nothing in the west to equate with this complete self-consumption within their sacred-secular world.

This is very interesting, Michael, and it calls to mind something someone said elsewhere, that in order to understand Hinduism, one must either be Indian or spend a great deal of time in India.   I try to stay aware of that as I attempt to read segments of the sacred texts or various articles -- that my understanding might be forever limited on the matter.  So on the one hand, I don't have the right cultural prerequisites, and on the other --- such a vast amount of work to take in -- so many thousands of years to account for!

The Indian/Hindu community in this area is very obscure, and very exclusive, consisting of doctors (many of our psychiatrists in the area are Indian or Sri Lankan) who are not advertising, so to speak. So for myself, I consider that there is no access to the "real people" therein while I'm here, and therefore my understanding will fall into the area of abstraction.   You are the closest person to the religion that I know!

I've had snippets of experience on the unseen, but I'm loth to deliberately invoke them. My background is pretty eclectic, but I have an awareness that one can't really pick and choose from a given pantheon at one's own whim. In other words, if you have one, you have them all: how could it be otherwise, if one is approaching it with an attitude of respect and the appropriate awe?

I have no problem taking the entire Hindu pantheon within in theory, but it is an enormous prospect! Especially as I have to do it piecemeal, little by little, as much as I can absorb at a time!

Thanks for the thoughts about western vs eastern --- even for the impact of the "new age", I know that this is true. Case in point -- practices as simple as "yoga" are generally forbidden by the christian churches in this area, as symptomatic of the devil --- anything which could possibly activate the kundalini and one's own power and intimate access to spirit is forbidden! Luckily, I have nothing to do with those churches, but it drives home what you're saying, that the worlds are very different indeed! 

[tommy2]

There are many ways for people to experience insanity, if they so choose.  I'm not judging Eastern or Western religions or non-religions good or bad.

The Soto Zen practice of sitting on a cushion looking at a blank wall for 30 minutes a day drives most westerners sufficiently nuts, anyway.

Thank you for posting this.

But nutz can be good, too.  Just like insanity.  Isn't it totally up to ones' perspective and, of course, the law?

Ha.

t

[daphne]

The SubGenius wants no part of the "New Age," it is already here and it obviously sucks. The SubGenius would rather RETRIEVE the manly Past, before 1971 or even 1953,

heh..

[Michael]

Went to Kali Ghat today, which is what Calcutta is named after, and it is everything I described above, without the deeper philosophical aspects of Brahman, though of course they are there by default in the very nature of Kali.

Heaving writhing human flesh - pressed against, and pushing, shoving, chanting Kali Maa! Kali Maa!, narrow doors and passageways, flowers, noise, colour, blood, sacrifices, bare feet against stone, wet, emotions, devotions, and there in the centre is the three eyed face of Kali. Strangely very sexual.

Julie couldn't take the claustrophobic centre, so I went on alone with our Brahmin guide.

I am not normally that type of person - I like the ascetic, the empty, the quiet solitude, and the higher level channels. So it came as a surprise that I actually enjoyed this Kali temple experience - some past acknowledgement that I fit in quite at home in the juices of Kali's bush, even though I still prefer the refined and rarefied mountains.

[daphne]

I am not normally that type of person - I like the ascetic, the empty, the quiet solitude, and the higher level channels. So it came as a surprise that I actually enjoyed this Kali temple experience - some past acknowledgement that I fit in quite at home in the juices of Kali's bush, even though I still prefer the refined and rarefied mountains.

surprise, surprise!!   

[Jennifer-]

Went to Kali Ghat today, which is what Calcutta is named after, and it is everything I described above, without the deeper philosophical aspects of Brahman, though of course they are there by default in the very nature of Kali.

Heaving writhing human flesh - pressed against, and pushing, shoving, chanting Kali Maa! Kali Maa!, narrow doors and passageways, flowers, noise, colour, blood, sacrifices, bare feet against stone, wet, emotions, devotions, and there in the centre is the three eyed face of Kali. Strangely very sexual.

Julie couldn't take the claustrophobic centre, so I went on alone with our Brahmin guide.

I am not normally that type of person - I like the ascetic, the empty, the quiet solitude, and the higher level channels. So it came as a surprise that I actually enjoyed this Kali temple experience - some past acknowledgement that I fit in quite at home in the juices of Kali's bush, even though I still prefer the refined and rarefied mountains.