Author Topic: jesus and the toltec path  (Read 884 times)

Offline Michael

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2014, 07:23:28 PM »
Btw -- Bible was before religion of christianity. Somehow some keep talking about christianity as if it was already there with Jesus and the Bible.


The 'Bible' was not before Christianity. It was created by the later-early Christians. The Old Testament predates Christ, and belongs to Judaism. But it was 'selected' from a vast array of Judaic texts by those who established the 'Bible', with a particular purpose in mind, so it is to be considered Christian in it's selection. The New Testament was written within 50 to 150 (you can check Wikipedia for the dates) years after Christ, but it is fully Christian, not Judaic.

Jesus was a Jew, and the antecedents informing Christianity via the Bible are all Judaic. Jesus was not a Christian. You will find when you step back to Jesus, you also have to step back to Judaism. That is largely the problem. You should know that Judaism has very little interest in spirituality - it is a tribe of people obsessed with pragmatic survival and their love of arguing with god. Jewish mysticism is not well appreciated within Judaism - we may know about the famous mystical texts, but Jews very very rarely care about them. Judaism has precious little interest in the after-life, it's all about here and now in the world.

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 12:01:14 AM »
Absolutely, agree  ;)


What you do need to do though, is find the tools and steps. They have to resonate with your spirit, but if you choose a path that makes you feel good, but doesn't produce the goods, then you are up shit creek without a paddle. Far better to be hungry for knowledge than defend a position.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 12:11:35 AM by Taimyr »

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2014, 05:07:46 AM »
Jesus came from already above, he was more than a human already.
/.../
So, as much as I understand Jesus came from somewhere where the toltecs intended to go. Jesus had already been there, but toltecs didn't know for sure where they are going and if they are successful in it.

You are far out there in your belief system, dear girl of the Baltic region.

It was Toltecs  (in the form of the Essenes) that teached Jesus, but we (The Toltecs) could never get him the blessing in his mission. All was touched of course, when he did the jump, but noone was surprised.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 05:22:48 AM by Jahn »

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2014, 05:13:21 AM »
The story of Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Don Juan and the Toltecs, are just that - stories. There is no validation available that either of these stories are fact. The question for us, is whether the story is useful.

Here we got a point from Michael that no one can dismiss, is the story useful? (For Your Spiritual growth).


What you do need to do though, is find the tools and steps. They have to resonate with your spirit, but if you choose a path that makes you feel good, but doesn't produce the goods, then you are up shit creek without a paddle. Far better to be hungry for knowledge than defend a position.

Basically we are alone, with only stories to advise us. Some stories hold more treasures than others.

Good. That was what Jesus and the Toltec talks about, Good - not God.
Everyone has to find their own path, and also find to the tools that propel them forward. We, or I , cannot tell what works for you or any member. We and I, can only share our experiences.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 05:23:34 AM by Jahn »

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2014, 05:41:32 AM »
jahn where do you get the essenes were toltec? i took them for jewish purists.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 06:58:12 AM by ~Urania »
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2014, 05:50:24 AM »
Yes, we can share experiences and ideas, but we can't tell anyone what exactly they should do or what they "need to understand".

The story of Jesus (which for me was confirmed by a living being btw, who is also from somewhere else and remembers the existence elsewhere (I know, here you want to laugh at me once again and ridicule the whole thing, but that is not my loss :P because I have absolutely no reason to doubt in it) I find useful for me, it is something to ponder about.  About the possible existence of much more evolved beings and how unimaginable this existence could be, compared to this small life of a human. Yes I find it useful.

Everyone has to find their own path, and also find to the tools that propel them forward. We, or I , cannot tell what works for you or any member. We and I, can only share our experiences.

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2014, 06:57:13 AM »
Interview with Carlos Castaneda: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199603/my-lunch-carlos-castaneda

"Where would Jesus fit into all this? Where would Buddha fit in?"

"They are idealities," Castaneda replied. "They are too big, too gigantic to be real. They are deities. One is the Prince of Buddhism, the other is the Son of God . . . . Idealities cannot be used in a pragmatic movement.

"Allowing your perception to break the interpretation system--a tree ceases to be a tree and becomes sheer energy--that is a pragmatic maneuver. The things shamans deal with are extremely practical. They break down parameters of normal historical reality Magical passes are just one aspect of that."

Castaneda is very negative about religion. But these aren't your usual diatribes: "Leave Jesus on the cross. He's very happy there! Don Juan said, 'Don't bother him, leave him alone. Don't ask him "why are you there crucified." He'd go bananas trying to explain to you why.' So I did that. He said hello to me, and goodbye."
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2014, 02:17:50 PM »
"castanedda is very negative about religion."

Now, where did I talk about religion?

erik

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2014, 04:29:09 PM »
Of course, religion has nothing to do with my personal parth. Religion can take to places you don't want to be.

For an example even buddism, generally they intend emptiness, they don't see that there is something worth intending behind emptiness. So, what you intend, that is what you get if your intent is strong...

Btw -- Bible was before religion of christianity. Somehow some keep talking about christianity as if it was already there with Jesus and the Bible.

Buddhists do not view emptiness as nothingness.

runningstream

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2014, 07:58:18 PM »
actually christ trying to explain himself is a funny concept to understand

because it becomes limited to a one dimensional "thing"


Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2014, 09:17:20 PM »
Interview with Carlos Castaneda: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199603/my-lunch-carlos-castaneda

"Where would Jesus fit into all this? Where would Buddha fit in?"

"They are idealities," Castaneda replied. "They are too big, too gigantic to be real. They are deities. One is the Prince of Buddhism, the other is the Son of God . . . . Idealities cannot be used in a pragmatic movement.


If anyone really would like to get deeper regarding Castaneda and his take on Jesus and the World religions I strongly recommend "his" last book : I Was Carlos Castaneda: The Afterlife Dialogues by Martin Goodman.

"The famed writer and sorcerer Carlos Castaneda steps back from the dead to lead him on a journey of understanding, and offer some secrets of shamanism, hallucinogens, religion and lost youth."

To invite someone like Carlos Castaneda into one's life, especially when he's dead, is asking for it. Martin Goodman, who barely escaped death in Amazonas, gets the full treatment from the old master and learns a thing or two to his own and the reader's advantage. To Castaneda's, too: I reckon he's in better form than ever before. ~ Francis Huxley, author of The Way of the Sacred

It is a very good book and Castaneda says among other things that its a curse to be well known. Religions, Castaneda claim, has their origin in the worship of mountains.

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2014, 09:27:29 PM »
jahn where do you get the essenes were toltec? i took them for jewish purists.

Well, it depends on how strict one should be with the label "Toltec". For us it in everday use means the teachings of Castaneda, Mares and Ruiz.

Now Toltec itself means A man/woman of Knowledge, one could say a person in alignment with the divine (purpose of Man).

Jesus had one teaching on the streets and in the gardens when he met the crowd and people. Jesus had another teaching for his disciples, the number of disciples varied but men was in a majority compared to women.

Don Juan talked about whole societies that Toltec ruled. The Toltec tradition is as old a Man on Earth and it has had many different form. What we know is the warriorship of Toltec teachers. In dark times the men of knowledge had monasteries, apart from the mundane and politics. It was in such a monastery, John the baptiste and Jesus got their training and teachings.

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2014, 09:49:03 PM »

It is some times best to read or listen to some other person talking about the same subject:

"Master gave a veiled teaching; he did not reveal all of his thoughts. Those who were interested by this first approach could follow him and become one of his disciples. One could be such a disciple without abandoning one's family or one's work.
 

Then the Master gave other teachings--deeper, more practical, more direct. He explained the meaning of the parables.

One of the higher steps for the circle of disciples was to repent and to receive John's baptism. It was the close disciples of the Master, the 12 apostles, who were to baptize the students who were entering a deeper level on the path.

Once a candidate had received the baptism, he entered an inner circle of a more restricted and secret School. Inside this circle, the Master transmitted a profound initiatic teaching, as well as certain precise methods. He said that he was working on the future of humanity through the intermediary of his students who had been thus prepared. The students of this secret School included women as well as men, although men were in the majority because of that time period. The discipline was strict, as in the Essene communities"


What we can learn from this Quote is that Jesus teachings to his disiples was Esoteric, so is the Toltec teachings that we know. Furthermore it was not about faith and salvation, it was about exercises, methods teaching etc even discipline is mentioned but not to forget, it was much about Joy and Laughter.



"Master Jesus himself was always careful about the place in which he taught or practiced the works of his Father-Mother with his disciples. Thus, when he was in Jerusalem, he went and taught the crowd in the square of the Gentiles or in certain places in the streets of the city. People knew where they could find him.

With his disciples, he liked to go outside of the city. Thus, he often arranged to meet the members of the inner circle in the garden of the 12 palm trees, which was located close to Bethany. There was a spring there, and the Master had explained at great length that this place was tied to the work which his faithful disciples would have to accomplish in the world in the centuries to come.

 He had revealed to all of them the purpose of his mission, the future history of humanity, the different incarnations of his disciples, and the role they would have to play in this history to serve Christ. Once again, he had alluded to the mysterious role of the Apostle John, and he had placed him in parallel with John the Baptist, the prophet Eli and the Essene Brotherhood-Sisterhood."


Therefore the disciples addressed each other with "brother" or "sister".

 

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2014, 11:34:53 PM »
Buddhists do not view emptiness as nothingness.

I did address this here in same folder: http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=9399.msg95757#msg95757

There is an entire thread with numerous articles on the topic: http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=6124.0

But sigh, you know how this goes. Some people just like to make blanket statements without educating themselves. Its the lazy approach, know what I mean?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2014, 11:54:48 PM »
thanks jahn for the info on jesus, the essenes and toltec. they do seem to have been a secretive group. while some still dont know about toltec, i think this became popular again with ruizs influence. do you think perhaps spirit is behind some of these mystery schools being made known? cause it seems what used to be secretive is not anymore, if that makes sense.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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