Author Topic: jesus and the toltec path  (Read 873 times)

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2014, 03:20:39 AM »
So lets say a person is intending emptiness. What is then what he wants to achieve?

Buddhists do not view emptiness as nothingness.

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2014, 03:22:16 AM »
I might read them at some point if I don't forget. But this month I don't seem to have time for it :)

I did address this here in same folder: http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=9399.msg95757#msg95757

There is an entire thread with numerous articles on the topic: http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=6124.0

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2014, 03:45:47 AM »
taimi, you are not reading anything on buddhism and emptiness so you making a comment would be the same if i commented i know how bruce lee made chocolate chip cookies. buddhists do not intend emptiness. this is not something to become. and youre comment how they are somehow missing the mark not seeing beyond emptiness is ignorant. buddhists say the saying `form is emptiness, emptiness is form,` so they do not exclude form. the point they make is the dependent origin of all things. you are not independent and separate. you need air to breathe, food, water, sunlight, et al. there is no `intending emptiness` of the buddhists and they are not missing the mark as you imply. Juhani and i study buddhism and know what were talking about. to realize the true nature of things, and the truth of what buddhists say is simple: practice, study, and meditate.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2014, 04:03:11 AM »
the intent of the buddhist, is that of the buddha he di not just want nirvana for himself, he was seeking a way others could be free of suffering. the buddhist intent is not just for himself, he wants to be free of samsara, and karma, by eliminating the craving. if he can do this, he can achieve nirvana. then he can be of use and help others to free themselves from suffering. that is their intent.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2014, 04:54:57 AM »
and they are very right. to become selfless, to be concerned for others, to put others before yourself, is the dharma.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2014, 05:18:26 AM »
You have air food and water and so on in this earth, of course we need it here. But not in the so called afterlife or eternal life. I suppose this is where we talk about different things, you talk about life as a physical human. I am more interested of what would be after death.

I sayd you get what you intend. What you intend to this after-death, that is what you might get, if your intent is strong enough. Why would I want to intend emptiness after death?

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2014, 05:30:15 AM »
buddhists do not intend emptiness after death. taimi, speaking to you about buddhism and emptiness is like speaking calculus to a two year old. you just throw things out there, a buddhist `term` and hope you can pass yourself off as knowledgable. if you wish to not to put importance on human life, then you really wont understand buddhism and the dharma. ultimately human life is what you make of it, and if you dont value it, i dont think youll value any afterlife any better. i dont live in a world where its all about me, and i have joy with my life. i often think to myself, perhaps this is it. if it is, i can accept that too. its been a good ride, either way.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Taimyr

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2014, 05:34:58 AM »
If you want to speak then speak, if you don't then don't.

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2014, 05:51:29 AM »
ultimately folks, we have spent what? seven years i think, on the spiritual. per our recent discussions, we all liste to don juan, but we do have our own varied perceptions. how i see it, death is adviser, and i do consult, and practice, and study. but lets be truthful here, we realy will not know what is going to happen to us until deaths door opens. this is shrouded in mystery, simply because we are alive, and human. what becomes of me then, i will confirm later. certain experiences ive had have given me ideas, but i am slow to draw conclusions on this. there is an old zen parable. a student asks a zen master, what happens when we die. he responds, i dont know. the student says, but youre a zen master! he simply says, yes, but not a dead one! what buddhism has taught me is to focus on this life, the here and now. right here, in this moment, thats reality. the future? no, the now is all that matters.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2014, 05:59:47 AM »
and taimi i dont mind talking about buddhism and emptiness. the issue however, which is issue with all your postings, is you dont seem to want to learn anything new. you get an idea in your head, and even if michael corrects you, you stubbornly cling to your view. i moderate the buddhism folder, and i dont just post articles; i read every article before i post. why? because i see truth in what the buddhists say, they speak to me. i dont claim to be enlightened, but ive learned a lot. my reservation with you is i am well aware you have no interest in the subject. all you want to do is boast your view is right. and its tiresome to speak to someone like that.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2014, 07:00:49 AM »
The infamous Heart Sutra

The Heart Sutra

When the Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara
Was coursing in the deep Prajna Paramita,
He perceived that all Five Skandhas are empty.
Thus he overcame all ills and suffering


O Sariputra, Form does not differ from Emptiness
And Emptiness does not differ from Form.
Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form.
The same is true for Feelings,
Perceptions, Volitions and Consciousness.


Sariputra, the characteristics of the
Emptiness of all Dharmas are
Non-Arising, Non-Ceasing, Non-Defiled,
Non-Pure, Non-Increasing, Non-Decreasing.

Therefore, in the Emptiness there are no Forms,
No Feelings, Perceptions, Volitions or Consciousness
No Eye, Ear, Nose, Tongue, Body or Mind;
No Form, Sound, Smell, Taste, Touch or Mind Object;
No Realm of the Eye,
Until we come to no realm of Consciousness.
No Ignorance and also no ending of Ignorance,
Until we come to no Old Age and Death and
No ending of Old Age and Death.
Also, there is no Truth of Suffering,
Of the Cause of Suffering,
Of the Cessation of Suffering, Nor of the Path

There is no Wisdom, and there is no Attainment whatsoever
Because there is nothing to be attained,
The Bodhisattva relying on Prajna Paramita has
No obstruction in his mind

Because there is no obstruction, he has no hearing,
And he passes beyond confused imagination.
And reaches Ultimate Nirvana.

The Buddhas of the Three Worlds,
By relying on Prajna Paramita
Have attained Supreme Enlightenment.

Therefore, the Prajna Paramita is the Great Mantra,
The Mantra of Illumination, the Supreme Mantra,
Which can truly protect one from all suffering without fail.

Therefore he uttered the Mantra of Prajna Parmita:
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha

(Translation to the latter: "OM, GONE (GATE is gone), GONE, (then PARAGATE) GONE BEYOND, (PARASAMGATE) GONE COMPLETELY BEYOND, (BODHI) AWAKE, (SVAHA) SO BE IT. So: OM, GONE, GONE, GONE BEYOND, GONE COMPLETELY BEYOND, AWAKE, SO BE IT.")
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2014, 07:09:55 AM »
http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/web-archive/2012/8/5/the-fullness-of-emptiness.html
"In the Vietnamese literary canon, there are two lines of poetry by a twelfth-century Zen master of the Ly dynasty that say:

If the cosmos exists, then the smallest speck
of dust exists.
If the smallest speck of dust doesn’t exist,
then the whole cosmos doesn’t exist.


The poet means that the notions of existence and nonexistence are just created by our minds. He also said that “the entire cosmos can be put on the tip of a hair,” and “the sun and the moon can be seen in a mustard seed.” These images show us that one contains everything, and everything is just one.

Because form is emptiness, form is possible. In form we find everything else—feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness. “Emptiness” means empty of a separate self. It is full of everything, full of life. The word “emptiness” should not scare us. It is a wonderful word. To be empty does not mean to be nonexistent. If the sheet of paper is not empty, how could the sunshine, the logger, and the forest come into it? How could it be a sheet of paper? The cup, in order to be empty, has to be there. Form, feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness, in order to be empty of a separate self, have to be there.

Emptiness is the ground of everything. “Thanks to emptiness, everything is possible.” That is a declaration made by Nagarjuna, a Buddhist philosopher of the second century. Emptiness is quite an optimistic concept. If I am not empty, I cannot be here. And if you are not empty, you cannot be there. Because you are there, I can be here. This is the true meaning of emptiness. Form does not have a separate existence. Avalokita wants us to understand this point."

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2014, 08:34:38 AM »
So lets say a person is intending emptiness. What is then what he wants to achieve?

Let's say person is meditating on emptiness. Why exactly would one do that? It boils down to what "emptiness" stands for in Buddhist view.


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"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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