Author Topic: jesus and the toltec path  (Read 883 times)

Offline Firestarter

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2014, 11:41:50 AM »
Let's say person is meditating on emptiness. Why exactly would one do that? It boils down to what "emptiness" stands for in Buddhist view.



Juhani, Ive been to Buddhist meditation groups several times and say The Heart Sutra, very commonly read. Its a good precursor to emptiness and what it means I think. There are many descriptions, but really, only one can 'know it' by meditating on it.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2014, 12:24:27 PM »
You have air food and water and so on in this earth, of course we need it here. But not in the so called afterlife or eternal life. I suppose this is where we talk about different things, you talk about life as a physical human. I am more interested of what would be after death.

I sayd you get what you intend. What you intend to this after-death, that is what you might get, if your intent is strong enough. Why would I want to intend emptiness after death?

Im going to address this a bit. Taimi, I am not singling you out. Really I am writing for anyone in here, or say other travelers who may arrive one day. Basically on the afterlife.

What I believe, and some do here, is consciousness travels. Buddhists say it is a 'stream of consciousness' hindus say a soul, Toltec, simply awareness and we know what awareness is. Basically, there are slight differences, but I believe we are speaking of the same thing, in what travels in the end.

Certain aspects of this 'stream of consciousness,' will not differ all that much upon travel. So say if you were unhappy in life, an afterlife, whether into the infinite, whether into the beak to be spat out again, or a new life, if you were not 'happy,' if you could not find any joy in life, you thought life sucked, or you were just hoping for something 'better than here,' ultimately, no matter where you go, where you end up, that consciousness will remain the same. That is the lesson of samsara. If you cannot free yourself of suffering here, you wont 'here there or anywhere.' You will still be miserable. Say even you end up in a peaceful paradise like Jesus spoke of. Say that it is. You will not like it much better than the human realm, if your attitude on life, is bad, here. There is a saying in the magical folk, 'as above so below.' I think of that, and ultimately somethings do change, but somethings remain the same. The only definite way, of getting 'out' of the suffering, to be free of this wheel of samsara, is to find the happiness, the bliss, the contentment, and the joy, in the here and now. Here and now, is Buddhist, its alse a big thing by Eckhart Tolle, and with his help, has helped many others. Many people are getting 'hip' that the here and now, is where we achieve our goals. Some say life is like a school, and it really is. This is where we get our education. And many like michael say weve attended school many lifetimes, over and over, and we do so, because there is a lot of learning to do, which ultimately is developing the consciousness. To evolve, to grow, so we can acheive our ultimate goal.

Michael and I agree the paths do diverge. Sure some might end up in a heaven, hey maybe they're right? But that consciousness, will be what will be. If one was angry and bitter in life, they will be, wherever they end up. If they were violent, they will be violent where they end up. If they were loving, then love wil prevail and guide them. So ultimately we must find peace, here, and now. Not later, not anticipate some 'happy ending' for us. The work must always be here, in this life. This place, this 'here and now' is the determining factor in what our result will be. Life is our cause, as everything is cause and effect.

Here and now, as I said, is where we experience the eternal. No place else. If we cannot free ourselves here, we will be in bondage, 'there.'
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2014, 04:37:02 PM »
I will add on this, and thought of this later, I just had a dream of ghosts. I have had two encounters with ghosts, which i consider stronger than the ibs. Once with a ouija board, and once at nanas house. Both times, these ghosts were so strong they could move things in the room, create hot and cold spots, rock chairs, and even turn on and off a tv. These spirits get 'trapped' and their existence validates what I speak of. This consciousness, somethings change, but somethings remain the same. They weren't happy, or say their consciousness was the 'yucky stuff" (im stealing michaels guardian term). I know they exist. They visit in dreams and bother me at times. I cant help them there, maybe one day, but I am pretty powerless to aid the stuck. When they are very creepy and nasty, I have found I have to be very firm and command them away. To go into the light or whatever it may be. So another reason it is imperative to get 'unstuck' and find joy and happiness. It lightens the consciousness, so you can ascend. Feel the vibration eh?

K heading out. Nitey nite folks.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

erik

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2014, 04:58:53 PM »
There are many descriptions, but really, only one can 'know it' by meditating on it.

Good point!

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2014, 06:52:05 PM »
there is an old zen parable. a student asks a zen master, what happens when we die. he responds, i dont know. the student says, but youre a zen master! he simply says, yes, but not a dead one!

Heh, heh - that was a good statement!

Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2014, 07:01:28 PM »
since we have been discussing jesus and the gospels, i have noticed some do seem to believe in jesus, but many of us walk the toltec path, or say employ don juan teachings and the like. so i was wondering, for those who do believe, how does jesus `fit` with the teachings of don juan? very interested in everyones take on this.

It struck me that we had a muslim as a member in the Toltec Mystery School of Light.
Beside following the practices in the class, he used to do a pilgrimage each other year. And he had a muslim teacher too, that he referred to a few times.

Offline Michael

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2014, 07:24:39 PM »
Let's be clear, no matter what anyone says about 'emptiness' in Buddhism, it remains a complex and contentious concept. There are many different views on this over the centuries and between the two different main types of Buddhism.

If one is interested in the debate about it within Buddhism, then reading these links is essential. Frankly, it is a very interesting concept, because it causes Buddhism to be set to a different side than every other religious or mystical tradition.

The idea that Buddha stopped short of full realisation because he got stuck in Nirvana, is a common theme from those religious traditions that are on the 'other side' so to speak. A good friend of Steiner wrote a considerably intelligent criticism of Buddha on this basis, of which Steiner vaguely endorsed, although not completely, as even Steiner knew he was treading into mystical waters there.

The problem for the 'others' is that they simply can't conceive of a spiritual tradition that would pursue emptiness. The very idea is anathema to their whole identity. And this is the essential point of Buddhism. In essence, Buddhism is saying that your identity, along with everything in it that seeks any aspiration, is the problem. Not until you drop all that, and accept the truth of emptiness, do you find something of lasting value - but what that is can not be described because our language is built on 'something', not 'nothing'. They say, you must experience.

Steiner's view was that Buddhism and it's counterpart in Hinduism, would never take hold in Europe, because Europeans had far too strong egos to accept the concept of emptiness. They were far to materialistic to ever conceive of giving up their possessions, be that physical, social or spiritual. Thus Christianity was a better spiritual tradition to flourish in Europe, as it had the idea of building your mansion in heaven.

Don Juan took CC to a place, which was obviously heaven, and showed him what was at stake here. With DJ, CC was able to see clearly that this place was an illusion - ie, empty.

I covered this in my book, if anyone ever got near the end which I expected few would. It is the Yin Yang sign all over again. Only in emptiness will you find permanence, but you can't just jump to that, or you will only find emptiness - you have to give it all up, or it won't work. You have to travel fully through the journey to emptiness to discover what lies at its heart. This is why DJs group were so astounded at the leap the tenant made into the third attention, after living in the second for thousands of years - they couldn't believe he would ultimately give up everything.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 07:29:20 PM by Michael »

runningstream

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2014, 07:41:17 PM »
my computer turned weird when i tried to post about this and went blank .

so i did not respond and then read your post ,

Jesus "merged " with something . that s all i know .

call it above or christ as above so below , the father ,spirit , god or whatever ,

that will shake your boots , walking upon water , with the father , no longer of

the body although still there , within spirit , led .

i will sound stupid trying to explain this its true .

walking within spirit as spirit , while alive . "Etheric"




Jahn

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2014, 02:35:23 AM »
Steiner's view was that Buddhism and it's counterpart in Hinduism, would never take hold in Europe, because Europeans had far too strong egos to accept the concept of emptiness. They were far to materialistic to ever conceive of giving up their possessions, be that physical, social or spiritual.


I like that "spiritual possesions". When poking with the concept, it actually exists.

Thus Christianity was a better spiritual tradition to flourish in Europe, as it had the idea of building your mansion in heaven.


"Heavenly Bank Account" by Frank Zappa


 And if these words you do not heed
 Your pocket book just kinda might recede
 When some man comes along and claims a godly need
 He will clean you out right through your tweed
 
That's right, remember there is a big difference between
 kneeling down and bending over...
 
He's got twenty million dollars
 In his Heavenly Bank Account.. .
 All from those chumps who was
 Born again
 Oh yeah, oh yeah

 He's got seven limousines
 And a private plane...
 All for use of his
 Special Friends
 Oh yeah, oh yeah
 He's got thousand-dollar suits
 And a Wembley Tie...
 Girls love to stroke it
 While he's on the phone
 Oh yeah, oh yeah

 At the House of Representatives
 He's a groovy guy. . .
 When he Gives Thanks He is not alone. . .
 
He is dealin'
 He is really dealin' IRS can't determine
 Where The Hook is
 It is easy with the Bible
 To pretend that
 You're in Show Biz
 They won't get him
 They will never get him
 For the naughty stuff
 That he did
 It is best in cases like this
 To pretend that
 You are stupid
 
He's got Presidential Help
 All along the way
 He says the grace
 While the lawyers chew
 Oh yeah
 They sure do

 And the Governors agree to say: "He's a lovely man!"
 He makes it easier for
 Them to screw
 All of you...
 Yes, that's true!
 'Cause he helps put
 The Fear of God
 In the Common Man
 Snatchin' up money
 Everywhere he can
 Oh yeah Oh yeah

/.../
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 02:37:34 AM by Jahn »

Offline Firestarter

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Re: jesus and the toltec path
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2014, 05:22:37 AM »
michael i can agree with steiner buddhism say would not be popular for the loss of ego. but really how could one retain it, when much ado of it is formed based off this body? i wonder.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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