Author Topic: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"  (Read 212 times)

Offline Nichi

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"The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« on: May 14, 2015, 06:13:51 PM »
http://www.krishnalilas.com/87-the-deliverance-of-lord-siva.htm


I'm not familiar enough with the culture of Hinduism, but in reading this article, which basically is advocating worship of Vishnu and Krishna over Shiva and Brahma, I find myself quite surprised by the tension between the factions. Shiva and Brahma are relegated to "demi-gods", whereas Vishnu and Krishna are supposed to be the "supreme godhead".

I've encountered another article recently which states that Shiva rules the world of ghosts, and therefore "ghost" is the highest aspiration one can achieve. I've lost the link to that article, but will post it here when I find it.

It all looks like religious politics to me, but granted, I don't know much. (Is it that the Hare Krishna folks are fanatics?)
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
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runningstream

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2015, 09:50:33 PM »
what con-fusing religious extremities

Offline Michael

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 10:46:42 PM »
Yes, the Hare Krishna folks are fanatics. They are so bad anything written by them or their leader has to be taken with a good pound of salt. But they are not the only ones. Humans are the same all over the world. Shaivites and Vaishnavites have fought against each other for hundreds of years. Certain sects of both cults have been very murderous towards their opponents, as well as denouncing each other's deities.

Offline Nichi

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 02:59:05 AM »
What a pity. As if the tension with Islam (and Buddhism?) isn't enough turmoil.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 04:02:02 AM by Nichi »
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Offline Nichi

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2015, 06:11:15 PM »
I had the occasion to revisit the name "Sharvesha", or "Sharbhesha", as one of Shiva's wrathful aspects. On my Pinterest page, someone corrected me, that the name should really be "Sharabha". He threw in some commentary about Shiva, just a little, but I had a feeling about him that it all was bound in with other issues. (Especially as his pages include Vishnu avatars but no signs of Shiva or Ganesh anywhere.)

In doing a little more research on the name "Sharvesha", I stumbled into raging debates. The content is not worth recounting, just suffice it to say: wow. The Vaishnavite vs. Shaivite opposition is alive and well. And it's almost absurd from Americans, or should I say non-Indians, because there are a thousand stories and scriptures in the naked city, and no one knows one from the other.

It's my definite impression that in the US, the Vaishnavite faction has a strong proselytizing component, no doubt due to the Hare Krishnas. 

Not only do I not enjoy debate, but I am not definitely not equipped to cite scriptures/puranas/vedas and the like. So this is an area I'll be completely avoiding. I'm just taken aback by the intensity of the hatred apparent with these guys.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
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Offline Michael

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2015, 10:02:44 PM »
When you consider this religious tradition has existed for thousands of years, it is only natural to expect passions would evolve. It has even taken on a recent political aspect. If you look up what happened to Wendy Doniger after the publication of her book, The Hindus: An Alternative History, you will realise the antagonisms that exist within Hinduism and India.

In short, it goes back to the fact that Shiva existed before the Arians and the Vedas. The Arians came into India and set up the Brahmanical structure, with the pantheon of the Vedas, but Shiva, and his female consorts could not be so easily replaced - they seeped up through the overlay and became acceptable principles within the canon. Unfortunately, it was never an easy mix.

But they weren't the only 'old' deities to penetrate into the pantheon. Brahmanism itself was and remains resisted, especially in the South, and among the tribals and remote villages. They tried to draw in every god and goddess, but it always remained a questionable fit.

Today, due to resurgent Hindu identity, especially with Hindutva, many Hindus reject the whole idea of the Arian invasion. This rejection is not based on facts, but on the principle of Hindu integrity and supremacy.

But it doesn't stop there, as there are ideological battles within Vaishnavism and Shaivism. There are Hindus who reject the whole concept of a God, or anything beyond the physical. In fact, the divisions within Hinduism are far more complex than any religious tradition I have looked at.

Offline Nichi

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2015, 10:46:02 PM »
I will be looking up the Wendy D. issue: I have been seeing her referenced with a lot of contempt.

When you consider this religious tradition has existed for thousands of years, it is only natural to expect passions would evolve. It has even taken on a recent political aspect. If you look up what happened to Wendy Doniger after the publication of her book, The Hindus: An Alternative History, you will realise the antagonisms that exist within Hinduism and India.

In short, it goes back to the fact that Shiva existed before the Arians and the Vedas. The Arians came into India and set up the Brahmanical structure, with the pantheon of the Vedas, but Shiva, and his female consorts could not be so easily replaced - they seeped up through the overlay and became acceptable principles within the canon. Unfortunately, it was never an easy mix.

But they weren't the only 'old' deities to penetrate into the pantheon. Brahmanism itself was and remains resisted, especially in the South, and among the tribals and remote villages. They tried to draw in every god and goddess, but it always remained a questionable fit.

Today, due to resurgent Hindu identity, especially with Hindutva, many Hindus reject the whole idea of the Arian invasion. This rejection is not based on facts, but on the principle of Hindu integrity and supremacy.

But it doesn't stop there, as there are ideological battles within Vaishnavism and Shaivism. There are Hindus who reject the whole concept of a God, or anything beyond the physical. In fact, the divisions within Hinduism are far more complex than any religious tradition I have looked at.

From this I'm guessing that the idea of "Trimurti" was more than an adoption of the Western "trinity", then? Was it perhaps an attempt to mend all the fences within the pantheon?

The rest of this I am mulling over. It is easy to incorporate the idea of Shiva being the oldest god. It makes sense. He really doesn't fit in. And neither does Brahma, for that matter. But I only say this intuitively.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
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Offline Michael

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2015, 09:06:06 AM »
The Trimurti is a funny one. I'm not sure when it originated, but I sense it's not that old. And yet somehow I'm not so sure it is an influence from Christianity. I'm just not clear about it, and yet I've often wondered about it. Certainly, I can't see the the two versions equate, except in the number three.

Brahma is also an odd deity. He is rarely worshipped anywhere in India. There are stories around this, but his role is vague. I do think he is an Arian deity. But remember many of the Arian gods morphed over time. Many of the important ones are no longer significant. Hinduism is an evolving religion, which changes constant. Hanuman is an example - his worship has dramatically increased in recent decades. And he has resisted any attempts to be fully claimed by either Vishnu or Shiva devotes.

Offline Nichi

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2015, 02:19:26 PM »
Funny to encounter this painting tonight.


"Folio from a Mahimna stotra, a popular poem in praise of the greatness of Shiva by Pushpadanata Acharya. A Shaivaite ascetic prepares a fire sacrifice for the benefit of Krishna and Balarama , both of whose foreheads have Shaivite tilak marks giving emphasis to the latter's supremacy amongst the gods. Kangra kalam (lit. 'pen') at Lahore, 1855."

(Presuming that it would be very poorly received in some settings.)

http://www.indianminiaturepaintings.co.uk/Lahore_Shaivite_ascetic_000996.html

Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

Offline Nichi

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Re: "The Deliverance of Lord Shiva"
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 04:12:44 AM »
 :)

Women who worship Shiva are interrupted by a vision of Krishna, anonymous, ca 1795 - ca 1805.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

 

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