Author Topic: another perspective  (Read 520 times)

Offline tommy2

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 03:40:39 PM »
To me, a teacher (and I consider the don Matus one of mine), is much, much more than the message they had to give to the student.  The true power of the teacher is within what was symbolized by the teachings and how the student was changed by them.  I have taken tongue-in-cheek a great portion of what CC was able to pass on about the don Matus, but have had my life changed forever by what the don Matus symbolized .......  through my own practice I have learned that there is a way to control ones' destiny, and that is to take an active part in it instead of just being an observer or belong to this or that fan club.  I made the effort to practice intensely in the way I could, with the tools I made available to me, to be maybe only one grain of sand on the limitless beaches of the Nagual journey.  Nothing was left up to someone else for I became my own saviour.  I rescued myself from the darkness of no self - knowledge and have continued to act in my own crazy way to taste the mystery of what was before called unknowable by me. 

I guess this surely can be said about any one of many Ways to liberation.  And I honestly and deeply sense that any such "Way" cannot be taken literally because each person must interpret the movement of the Spirit within the changes of their own personal life.

i.e., agreeing or disagreeing on any particular method of practice is about as narrow minded as egotism can be stretched.

t2f
t2f

Offline TIOTIT

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 05:16:25 PM »
AS IT SHOULD BE....

Offline Michael

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 07:47:49 PM »
I saw the terror of my life force tethered forever to this puffed-up pain-filled ghost. I die but the distorted Castaneda of people's imaginations will live on and drag me with it.

Jahn

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 03:49:56 AM »


As my teacher use to say. If you want to find water - start digging. But do not change the place where you are digging, just keep on digging right where you started.

That means if you have found a concept that work for you, whether it is a school, a kind of religion, a set of techniques and so on - stick to it and do not quit for some other concept. Because then you have to start all over again.

Jahn

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 04:07:01 AM »
. Professor William W. Kelly,
chairman of Yale's anthropology department, told me, "I doubt you'll find an
anthropologist of my generation who regards Castaneda as anything but a clever
con man. It was a hoax, and surely don Juan never existed as anything like the
figure of his books.

This guy would appreciate Alberto Villoldo, a researcher that have lived two decades with the Inkan Qéros from the Andes in Peru. He has systematically reported his years and their teachings together with a couple of other researcher of which I especially would like to mention Joan Parisi Wilcox and her book "Masters of the Living Energy - The Mystical World of the Q'ero of Peru. Q'ero  means Cup. They think they are cups that shall be filled by the higher energy.

Dr Villoldo work with real people, I've met them myself, they are on hundreds of photographs and they invite students to journeys in the Andes.

Carlos Arana was born in Peru but he went to the Amazonas, not up in the Andes. For the "real" antrophologists Castaneda was a dead end street and a embarrasing cat among the ermines, for the spiritual warriors on a path of growth he was a goldmine and a beacon in the dark sea. Mares and Ruiz in all honor, but Castaneda was number one to publish his teachings.




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Re: another perspective
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 04:12:40 AM »
Who knows, if I keep their attention for long enough they might catch sight of the reality behind all those words. What is that reality? I call it a Separate Reality, but that of course is another of my lies. Reality is reality, and it's our book-reading society that is separate from it.


Offline Nick

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 11:50:34 AM »
I know that Castaneda's message is valid because of the energy behind the words. But, whether or not it was a true story in the sense that there actually was a Don Juan, Genero, or any of the others I don't know. And, it doesn't matter.
It is fascinating though.

I never read romance novels, but when I stumbled across a book called Desire by Amy Wallace something I felt drew me to it. I opened it up and read that she was a student of Carlos so I read the whole book. It is still the only romance novel I've ever read but it was a fun indulgence. I liked it, it was more than just a romance it was a bit of a mystery and had some small bit of mystical symbolism in it. It is also got me pondering about how my family history has shaped me. 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 11:52:39 AM by Ian »
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 10:03:30 PM »
This guy would appreciate Alberto Villoldo, a researcher that have lived two decades with the Inkan Qéros from the Andes in Peru. He has systematically reported his years and their teachings together with a couple of other researcher of which I especially would like to mention Joan Parisi Wilcox and her book "Masters of the Living Energy - The Mystical World of the Q'ero of Peru. Q'ero  means Cup. They think they are cups that shall be filled by the higher energy.

Dr Villoldo work with real people, I've met them myself, they are on hundreds of photographs and they invite students to journeys in the Andes.

Carlos Arana was born in Peru but he went to the Amazonas, not up in the Andes. For the "real" antrophologists Castaneda was a dead end street and a embarrasing cat among the ermines, for the spiritual warriors on a path of growth he was a goldmine and a beacon in the dark sea. Mares and Ruiz in all honor, but Castaneda was number one to publish his teachings.



Ive read Dance of the Four Winds by Villoldo.. excellent book imo. I should look for others.

Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline Michael

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2007, 03:03:37 AM »
The words of don Juan changed my life, for which i will be forever grateful - it was shear magic!

and still is.

Offline Michael

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2007, 04:08:00 AM »
first, read this truly profound poem:
here

then, i want to draw out a special understanding.

The sufies of old had three ways of dealing with times of floods of insanity of their fellow humans. when expression of the truth becomes dangerous.

The first was to go into the prevailing world, and become influential. Some as artists, and some were advisers to emperors. even when these were bloodthirsty times. this is always considered the most dangerous method, and spoken of with severe warnings.

The second was to go underground - to live in dissemble, and cover one's real light. This is the normal method.

The third was to retreat to remote places and keep alive the culture of enlightenment. In secret monasteries, these sufis were the cream of their milk. they kept alive the traditions, in valleys far from prying eyes, to bring it it out again when the current horde of murderers went away.

To some extent this can also be applied to our days, even our own selves. The second and third methods are the two bears. Rustam is the first. It is not the life of fame, but the destiny, that is so sad. That one has to walk the razor edge, and to live in a cage, instead of sharing the world in its most beautiful and intimate way.

there is a sufi story of one such saint, who was 'discovered' by some emperor. he became an influential member of the court. But he was despised by rivals for his influence, and so they put out rumors to the emperor that he would go to a secret room occasionally to which only he had a key.

the emperor demanded he open the room for inspection. on opening the door, all they saw were some old rags. he said, these were the clothes i wore when you found me, and these will be the clothes i wear when i leave. i come here to remember who i am.

CC may have screamed for the price of his fame, the other side of his destiny. and that comment by him posthuman, is a classic CC call. but i suspect he really screamed for the slipping on the razor's edge - it sliced him right up the crutch - straight through his nuts. with one foot in don Juan's reality, and one in the dens of fame, which slipped, and it was that slip which his other side saw and screamed in a flash of self-truth ... for which he had been trained.

don Juan was also famous, but i can't see him screaming - i see a depthless being of wisdom. i have met him, and i speak of his actual presence. I would say everyone here has also met him, recall it or not - everyone carries his mark.

for some, the dangerous first path is simply their card from spirit. but everyone would prefer to live in the pure land. that they can't, is cause for weeping. for they must sacrifice the treasure of peace, life in the wild - where their heart longs. like when you have to go to work in the morning.

but that is also a place of spirit - even the golden cage, and the dancing can be the endless sky, and the mountain stream.

Jahn

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2007, 04:37:14 AM »
I see your points clearly M. There is a ongoing conflict between the Dream of the planet, which is much monkey, war heros stuff - against the, what we call, real world, with honor and respect for every living sentience. Knowing that there is no trashcan that take care of our garbage. We have to use roles, controlled folly etc. Famous bear in a golden cage heh.

Castaneda did come on strong. He had so much energy, so much bull head, and tricks, this together with his bombastic style suffocated the most. I know you think he failed in the end, well it doesn't matter much, he got his posthumous book through Goodman. But I know that he tried to wash away much of the dust much earler (see the following quote), and by the way - in which millenia we ever will be - everyone will know the name, that gargauntian figure - Carlos Castaneda. So it is to some use to get under his skin. The Journey of the Naguals will continue.

" It doesn’t matter what people say. I’m no longer Carlos Castaneda, the writer. Nowadays I know that I am nothing; nobody can take something from me, because Joe Cordoba isn’t anything./.../
In all this is no personal pride hidden. We live on a level that is lower than the Mexican peasant, which does tells a lot. We have reached the bottom and cannot go deeper. But the difference between us and the peasant is that he nourish a hope, he want things and he works so he one day will have more than he has today. We on the other hand, has nothing, and for each day we got less
."

Dr Gracelia Corvalan interviews Carlos Castaneda for about 7 hours in Los Angeles July 1981


« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 04:39:05 AM by Jahn »

Offline TIOTIT

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2007, 02:04:40 PM »
Found this while browsing a second hand book store...looks like an interesting read.
Interesting character who ran the stall said ...it's all in the Castaneda books if you
know what to look for...we had a good conversation...he was into everything...
If anyone has read it I'd like to hear your thoughts....I can post some excerpts if
anyone would like.

Offline elliot

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2007, 02:16:51 PM »

don Juan was also famous, but i can't see him screaming - i see a depthless being of wisdom. i have met him, and i speak of his actual presence. I would say everyone here has also met him, recall it or not - everyone carries his mark.



i met Juan Matus before i even knew who he was.  in fact he brought me to a place, 1500 miles away from were i met him that introduced me to Carlos Casteneda.  (it is how the whole thing started for me.) 
i recall meeting Ruiz very well.  he touched my right nipple with his finger.  it was ignition.  it was the day i signed on the TNF.

For me, Castenada's work is irrelevant to  me today.  The books did there work on me, i drank its wine.  I even went into all the speculation like this post started out as, before. 

It came to a point that I had to put the books down though and live.  Live the moment.  This moment.  like no other.

This is what MAtus, Castneda, Ruiz, Mares......Teach me.   Now it is time for me to live it ....  Now..  Today  . . . . .  This moment . . . . .. . . it is the difference between spinning the wheels, and making progress in growth.  I feel Castaneda started the formula for growth that no other new age movement could provide.
"O great creator of being, grant us one more hour / to perform our art and perfect our lives."    Jim Morrison

Offline tommy2

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2007, 02:48:36 PM »
And how has this made you act ?

t2f

nichi

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Re: another perspective
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2007, 03:36:15 PM »
If anyone has read it I'd like to hear your thoughts....I can post some excerpts if anyone would like.

Sounds intriguing!

 

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