Topic: Evolution - or: What's the Point of Anything?

[Michael]

I'm going to initiate an ongoing contemplation of evolution: universal, species, personal and spiritual. I'll just add bits as I find the time.

To begin, the word evolution has numerous implied meanings. Darwin used the term to describe how species mutate, typically in response to changing environmental conditions (though not always) and those mutations which happened by chance, to match survival suitability, could be called evolution. The others were duds, and 'didn't evolve'.

So, even with biology, there is a covert teleological essence in the term evolution. Wikipedia explains teleology as "causality giving the reason or an explanation for something as a function of its end, its purpose, or its goal, as opposed to as a function of its cause".

By this, I mean that there lies hidden yet strangely emphatic, a belief in 'progress': that which evolves is in some strange way moving forward towards something advanced, 'more evolved', higher, 'upward and onward'. The very act of survival implies an ongoing adaption to change, coupled with a deep assumption that existence today is superior to the past, if one goes back far enough.

This 'deep assumption' is worth assessing. Only recently I heard it expressed as a given, that one would not want to return to earlier times of humanity. When I first heard the concept of 'reincarnating backwards' I was quite shocked, until I began to question why I had not previously considered such an idea as reasonable. That engendered the corollary concept that humanity, at least, is possibly regressing, de-evolving, and that the whole trajectory of change is degenerative.

The problem with either of these, is another deep assumption in the view of the universe, society and self as linear - on a straight path, and that this path could either travel on the flat, uphill or downhill (boring, aspirational, depressing). This assumption has not only been driven by our concept of time, but also a powerful ontological belief in the human capacity to 'build better', ie 'progress'.

This view of the meaning of existence exploded out of Eastern Europe some five hundred years ago, and is now so endemic in our sense of being, that it is almost never questioned. But is it real?

[Firestarter]

Hopefully what I say is not off the mark what you are trying to express.

If I were an alien hovering over in a spaceship and observing, with the way humans treat the planet, I may consider that as humanity devolving, versus evolving. Like is something hardwired in the humans to off themselves on this planet? Where most species do things to continue their survival - or should I say all? - we are doing things destructive to the ecosystem itself, threatening not just ourselves but the whole planet.

But, then there does seem to be this whole concept with awakening, and moving toward evolution. It's both a spiritual and physical endeavor. And perhaps this whole awakening is also biological and hardwired in us, we must do this, if we are to survive.

But then, there is also just the spiritual aspect - personal evolution. It may seem futile to get humanity ALL to awaken to save the planet. Will it be when we get to the point of no return, that humanity FINALLY awakens and works together to do this? Could that time come?

I am not sure. I mean, it's up to the point the talk of seeking out other planetary life, or colonizing Mars is on the table, due to this destruction of the planet. But I sure can't see spirit gifting humanity a way out, nice planet, when they were stupid enough to ruin a good one, either. It isn't even logical to me.

But the group of folks determined to do something to save the planet IS growing, over time. More are getting contentious. Even if it is doing little personal things to help. Like avoiding plastic bags or recycling. Course, more needs to be done. Like put pressure on big corps which are ruining the planet for the all mighty dollar.

We could go several ways here. I feel humanity is sitting at the crossroads at the moment, not necessarily the point of no return, but the crossroads. To evolve or devolve. And in the meantime, folks are working on their own interpersonal evolution, because they know they can't necessarily fix the world, at least not singlehandedly. It will be interesting to see what humanity does in the next ten years. Cause that decade is going to determine life as we know it an continue or not.

[nikos]

I think evolution is too much of a loaded word ~

As I see things I believe the grander role is played by the sun.

Sun's activity changes the atmosphere of Earth hence the environment we live in.

I think the subject is huge and there is no factual explanation at hand.

[Firestarter]

I think evolution is too much of a loaded word ~

As I see things I believe the grander role is played by the sun.

Sun's activity changes the atmosphere of Earth hence the environment we live in.

I think the subject is huge and there is no factual explanation at hand.

You are correct, it can be loaded and a matter of perception. The Christian is a straight denier of it. In the biological sense esp. But the spiritualist recognizes it's existence in the inner and outer sphere.

But the sun funny you mention. Per evolution and climate change, we just had the situation, I think it's now around 1300 died in Mecca due to the heat, during their pilgrimage. That's a major sign of climate change! Brutal. And each year is getting worse. I don't know what is going to be the final moment when people realize it's real, and I mean, on a 100% global scale. In the US, we have countless deniers and it's because of big corporations and they don't want the regulations. The hoarders of money control a lot, and they try to control the perception of the masses. The scientists try to educate the threat is real, and they even try to rebuke their warnings. The public can't be this stupid, I will think to myself. But then again, I see a lot of ignorance within them, buying into this crap. We had the Deluded Melon say to a panel of scientists "I think the science is wrong," and that shows what we are dealing with here. Total idiots running government,, and even bigger idiots electing them. Will be interesting to see what happens this year.

[Bornamber]

Why does it have to be an “onward” “upward” movement? And not just a harmonizing of the available energy at hand at any given moment? (Although the point you bring up about how we don’t question this in our psyche is very interesting and gives shivers to the soul when contemplating)

I don’t see evolution as “better” or moving towards some progressed future when we talk about nature (however I do have the mind virus in regards to evolution meaning progress).  I see ecosystems shifting to maintain some sort of homeostasis.  It’s never about better.  It’s about maintaining the status quo.  Now what determines the shape of that homeostasis….how did that get established in the first place?

[Firestarter]

One of the books I am reading right now is The Golden Future. It gives a rather dreamy view of what the New Earth will be like. And while it is doable, it would require a complete overhaul of the collective consciousness to achieve it. I just got added to a group where they do portray the 5D as a "utopia." Now I'm not saying it can't happen. There is even quite a few prophecies to elude to it. Michael, even Kalki leads to the Satya Yuga, right? Or say with Jesus, the Second Coming and 1000 years of happy days on earth. There does seem to be a common thread in many religions of a perfect time in the future.

But I don't know if I will live to see it. As long as we have humans remaining stupid and not utilizing their own personal power within and being duped to hand it over to these elitists...not sure.

But back to it, the book does seem to be a channeled vision of a potential. I would hope it is doable of course. But right now, humanity has to decide if it really wants to save itself or not.

[Michael]

The question of whether the conviction that progress is of the highest value, is real, should first be assessed in the history of humanity – sapiens. That seems to be where the concept garnered its most vehement subliminal persuasion.

Contemporary humans are instinctively myopic. Someone coined the term, Parochialism of the Present, which I sense is a wonderful phrase, regardless of the author’s intent in its meaning. An essential aspect of this historical myopia is the subconscious creed that humanity today is more self-conscious, more independently self-aware, more astute in managing and manipulating our environment, more evolved in sentience than at any time in the past. And the further back your look, the more inert and passively influenced by external forces, people were.

As if in the distant past, back beyond 3,000 years, humans lived much like sleepy animals, wandering the earth plucking easy fruit and spearing the odd fish, bird or animal for food – all of which were in abundance, such that they spent most of their time lying around like sloths.

There are two dominant streams of presumption – that early humanity lived short and brutal lives (Thomas Hobbes: Leviathan) or naïve innocence (Jean-Jacques Rousseau: Discourse on Inequality). Unfortunately for these romantics, advances in archaeology and anthropology disprove both these fantasies. In fact, humanity, as far back as is possible to envision based on actual evidence – certainly to the end of the last iceage, around 12,000 years ago – appear to display a highly advanced sense of individual and community alacrity. We have technological advances today – more devices – but our degree of self-consciousness has not demonstrated commensurate evolution. In fact, the lack of sagacity at the controls of our advanced technology is appallingly palpable.

This does not rule out the possibility of development of self-consciousness over the aeons; just that it is increasingly difficult to make that case.

This raises some deeply troubling questions. Are all the efforts by humanity to help create a better, rewarding and self-fulling culture for the capacity and freedom of people to achieve potential-enhancing lives, just a fatally flawed fantasy? Is the environment within which humanity exists, and always has existed, simply morphed according to universal principles of randomness, and the best we can ever do is to see our condition as solely an opportunity for personal enrichment?

Much as if the world, and humanity within it, is a changing obstacle-course completely immune to any sense of progress – it’s just there for us to throw ourselves into with the hope we will develop through the experience, in some way.

Or perhaps there is an underlying, albeit mysteriously hard to quantify, path of evolving being? What would that essence be, which is evolving? If we knew that, maybe we could focus our attention on that aspect and work towards its elevation, to feel that we are in tune with a greater plan.

But more critically, if indeed the world and humanity itself, are simply cyclic – like the wheel of samsara – is it also possible that there is no personal development either?

[Firestarter]

It might be strangely cyclical. It seems when humanity gets closer to being more evolved and conscious, like the tales of Atlantis, we fall. Like the tale of the Tower of Babel, extending toward the gods. It's as if we progress, get too big for our britches and are cast down. I feel a lot of us feel this could happen again. Perhaps what we "see" as evolution may not be so.

[nikos]

But more critically, if indeed the world and humanity itself, are simply cyclic – like the wheel of samsara – is it also possible that there is no possibility of personal development either?

I 'm not sure this hits target.

I think the mrna vaccines blend us and mixed us all .

At least it is an information.

For some this is good for others it's bad...

Now it's part of the world. There's no going back...

I consider all -so we speak- that have happened during the coronavirus at least suspect ....

[Firestarter]

I 'm not sure this hits target.

I think the mrna vaccines blend us and mixed us all .

At least it is an information.

For some this is good for others it's bad...

Now it's part of the world. There's no going back...

I consider all -so we speak- that have happened during the coronavirus at least suspect ....

Per the vax, I did get it. It was an intuitive choice for myself. Die of covid or take a chance and die of a vax? It wasn't perfect. Some folks died. But at least in the states, because folks refused to vax, many died cause of it. I have been very blessed I never got it. But was it a "plan-demic?" I feel so, it's highly suspect. But no matter. I suspect something could occur, a motivating of the sheeple to perhaps take a chip or something. I was good with a vax. If anything, I saw more conspiracy to get folks to reject it, to kill off the population. Just my feel. But...there is a lot of weird with what we went through with covid. I know for a bit I got comfortable staying indoors, and it took awhile for me to venture out and be with the public. I am fully out now but....I suspect there are still many who want to stay home and not go out and socialize. It's easier to manipulate folks if they are isolated. Just and observation.

[Michael]

Personal Development

Now we come to the difficult, the crucial part. Looking through into the distant past, we can question the existence of developmental evolution, and thus the question of objective in a linear sense – to put it bluntly, a target, for either the universe or any species including homo sapiens. Just because that is not overtly obvious, does not in any way preclude it. Because we can’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Although, it is worthwhile looking more diligently, subtly and deeply.

I must admit to a personal bias, a vested interest – I find it uncomfortable, indeed counter to my whole predilection, to carelessly divest myself of the sense of intent and impulse, and thus the adherence to developmental evolution. It is embedded in my bones.

And yet, I confess to another completely counter thread to my being – that of absolute acceptance of futility. Half of my being is simply along to enjoy the ride, without any concept of time, tomorrow, yesterday, ambition, quest, success or failure. That aspect of my being is impossible to describe, as it has no handles with which it allows my objective view to grasp and interrogate – totally subjective, and fathomless from outside. It is simply a place within which to rest and reside, a home to which it tells me I will always return after my fabulous excursions into duality.

Conflicts of interest aside, I return to the topic.

Regardless of universal or species developmental evolution on a grand scale, this does not mean that we as individuals don’t have that within our being. There are two aspects: firstly, is there a systemic plan embedded into the growth of individual humans (lets leave out other species for the moment, despite it being a natural corollary), and secondly, does the potential of elected intent exist – meaning, the availability of any individual through the exercise of free will, to choose a path of personal development out of the unconfined array of alternatives presented to any living being?

The first aspect really can’t be approached until we examine the second – if a personal atman exists, then perhaps the Paramatman can be extrapolated from the former.

Let’s for the moment, accept that the world and humanity are on an endless futile wheel of pain and pleasure, good and bad luck, where everything we experience is the consequence of external forces to which we are ultimate slaves. That, let’s say, is the natural condition of Life. Within that sphere, do we, as maverick spirits, have the right, the capacity, the freedom, the energy, to choose a personal quest, to build the requisite intent to dedicate our life to that pilgrimage, and even after all that, to achieve at least something worthwhile and of lasting value beyond death, regardless of success of failure? There you have the whole microcosm of personal dream and essence.

Now, one point at a time, we shall assess the validity of the ‘cubic centimetre of chance’.

[Michael]

OK, that’s very romantic, and plenty to work on, but there’s something missing. It’s all very well to speculate that a goal is valuable, and worth living for, fighting for, but without one critical factor, it remains a romantic fantasy. Again, let us assume these aspirations are worthy, even theoretically possible. But there is one element without which, all this remains a pipe dream. We can have before us an aspiration, a goal, a purpose to make life meaningful instead of living as a leaf in the wind, but unless we can match that quest with the power to engage, we are pissing in the wind. Here lies the whole crumbled pack of cards that most of humanity face – nothing we value has any worth unless we have the power to grasp it. The whole charade of evolution becomes meaningless unless any being has acquired the power to launch themselves into the command of that potential.

We can speak of love and kindness, competition and victory, aspiration and realisation, but without the personal power to match that ideation, we are pathetic fools predestined to be sucked down the drain of God’s abattoir, without a flicker of elan. All hope rests on courage and will.

The real question beneath all this fancy deliberation, is do we have the courage and will to bring our visions into manifestation? The only honest answer for anyone with the presentiments of these qualities, is ‘No!’ Only from that ruthless point of truth realisation, can we begin to change our barren fate.

So, how do we gain the power of agency in life, once we acknowledge we are impotent?

[nikos]

So, how do we gain the power of agency in life, once we acknowledge we are impotent?

I like questions without an answer.

Paths with heart are worth travelling just because they have a heart..

This all brought to mind a quote from Theun Mares...

“Challenges are unique to every individual. What makes a challenge difficult or easy is the level of power inherent within it. Easy challenges do not require a great deal of effort, and therefore their yields are poor. Difficult challenges, on the other hand, require a great deal of effort, and in exercising the will in order to conquer them, they yield magnificent gifts of power.”

My regards..

Edit: I need to add that my post above is posted with reservation as I 'm not a friend of power, neither power is what I 'm seeking as a man.

thanks

[Firestarter]

OK, that’s very romantic, and plenty to work on, but there’s something missing. It’s all very well to speculate that a goal is valuable, and worth living for, fighting for, but without one critical factor, it remains a romantic fantasy. Again, let us assume these aspirations are worthy, even theoretically possible. But there is one element without which, all this remains a pipe dream. We can have before us an aspiration, a goal, a purpose to make life meaningful instead of living as a leaf in the wind, but unless we can match that quest with the power to engage, we are pissing in the wind. Here lies the whole crumbled pack of cards that most of humanity face – nothing we value has any worth unless we have the power to grasp it. The whole charade of evolution becomes meaningless unless any being has acquired the power to launch themselves into the command of that potential.

We can speak of love and kindness, competition and victory, aspiration and realisation, but without the personal power to match that ideation, we are pathetic fools predestined to be sucked down the drain of God’s abattoir, without a flicker of elan. All hope rests on courage and will.

The real question beneath all this fancy deliberation, is do we have the courage and will to bring our visions into manifestation? The only honest answer for anyone with the presentiments of these qualities, is ‘No!’ Only from that ruthless point of truth realisation, can we begin to change our barren fate.

So, how do we gain the power of agency in life, once we acknowledge we are impotent?

I would say if we want to have the power to change our fate, we have to be willing to do all the work to change ourselves into someone who has use of personal power. We have to shed all that is self-defeating within us, that is weak, and gives into the things of the world which trap us. A warrior can't get totally caught up in their strengths and get comfortable. They also have to know their weaknesses and where the FI can hit, cause the FI knows them very well. Those areas must be undone. Like we all have our bad habits and weaknesses. Those things, if we cave to them, will drain our power. We have to become our personal best to fully embrace our personal power to achieve any goal. But warriors aren't just working for small victories. They are preparing to create an audacity, like you have said before.

[nikos]

Thinking back on evolution arises the word 'growth' ..

So, maybe , apart from the massive or the collective characteristics inside us, or even together with them, individually we need to turn our focus internally maybe...