Author Topic: Living in the Now  (Read 2281 times)

Offline Quantum Shaman

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2007, 03:57:52 AM »
Julie struggled for a long time in her theses to neatly explain Maya (till she finally gave up that hope), and for some time used the word impermanence, meaning everything changes - not that things aren't permanent in their existence within Maya, but that they are not permanent in our desire to see them stay the way we want.

This is an ongoing theme which Wendy and I discuss often - "everything changes."  Last night as we were driving home rather late, the discussion had turned to that very subject.  I commented that as I grow older, it's interesting to realize that I've lived at least long enough to see the world really change... and to realize simultaneously that nothing has really changed at all.  The illusion within the illusion - the humanform proclamations of what is real. 

Early on in my workings with Orlando, he was talking about "reality" - permanence vs. impermanence...

If we're going to discuss reality it's important we agree what reality is and therein stands its fallacy. A wooden table is solid enough but in a thousand years it will crumble to dust, as unreal as it was before the seed was planted from which the tree grew so the table could be spun whole by mortal hands that could thump on the wood and proclaim it "real", when in reality it was a transient thing, and if the mortal survived those thousand years until the table disappeared, would he argue it was "real" because it had been there once (even though it was there no more); and if his past perceptions tripped over the phantom leg of where that table once stood, would he stub his toe enough to make it bleed?

What was the nature of the table's reality? It came from nothing and to nothing returned, for before it was a seed dropped from a tree, it was nothing if not nothing at all. Scientifically we can explain it all from stamen and pollen to seed to tree to table to dust, but the real conundrum is this: before the table existed it did not exist yet was part of a future reality, and after the table crumbles to nothing it no longer exists, so how are human perceptions to confirm it ever existed at all or argue it was any more real when it occupied molecular space?

Ah, but even if it no longer exists does that make it "unreal", for now there's the legend of the table sung into being by those who remember it, and what created the thing if not mortals who needed a place to place their faith in reality?

So what of magick? Any reality is as real as the willful ability to create it and the need to perceive it, no?


It's one of those things that always brings a smile to my face (and often causes my head to tilt to the side, like a confused puppy -  ???

Permanence, is a quality we strive to find. To cling to something we can rely on - which eventually leads us into our deepest core of silence, as if in absence we find certitude. Whereas energy in its solid and fluid forms, 'exists'. always 'exists', yet is constantly changing. a paradox, but one we are called to resolve as beings within.

Exactly.  For me, it's been a matter of making that connection to the infinite... and in doing so, beginning to vaguely and slowly and delicately intuite the connection to the eternal.

But Hinduism has another word, or concept, Vijnana. It works this way, first we live in the ignorance that our world and relationships are real, and when they are taken away we suffer - the more we cling the more we suffer. Then we get wisdom, and let go, realising the impermanence of our attachments. On the deepest level, we reject all, and enter into absolute essence - they call that Jnana. (actually Nirvikalpa Samadhi.) Nothing remains - all is rejected, even ourselves. But then, we come back (like those who return from Keter) and only then are we able to play in Maya - to access the full range of existence, past present and future. We are called Vijnani.

Thanks for this expansion - it actually makes a lot of sense and aligns strongly with my own beliefs.  Though I have never studied Hinduism, it seems that certain aspects of it correlate strongly to some of the toltec and quantum-shamanism terminology - Tonal (Maya), Nagual (Brahman)... just seems to validate yet again that the truth is in all of us, even if we use different words to get to the same place.  Often, I have found, it's extremely helpful to me to be able to look at something with a different perspective - so thanks again for that opportunity.
"You have to be immortal before you will know how to become immortal."
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Offline Zamurito

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2007, 03:48:12 AM »
On Letting Go

A young man once registered for a conference I was conducting on small group leadership.  For the first few days he was uncommonly quiet and withdrawn.  I had known him from a previous conference, and he had been much more alive and involved.

Finally I asked him, "Harvey, I notice that you have been distant and uninvolved since this conference began.  Would you like to tell us why?"

"I guess I'm disappointed," he replied.  "I attended a workshop here once before, and I was in a tremendous group.  We really had a great time together.  I guess I came here expecting to find that old group, and it's not like that at all."  It became increasingly apparent that Harvey had not given up his old group when it ended, hoping to find it again.  We talked for awhile about the necessity of giving up those things in life which hold us back from participating in the present.

Then we did an interesting thing.  I handed Harvey an imaginary shovel so he could "bury" his old group.  He entered into the role play with great vigor, digging a grave in the middle of the floor.  When he had finished, he shoved his "old group" into the imaginary hole.  Others in the group joined in, shoving into the hole some things in their lives which they had been holding onto unnecessarily.

The "grave" was then filled up, and the group celebrated a new feeling of freedom for having given up some unneeded baggage.  Nonverbal acting out is often more than symbolic.  Some genuine changes can begin when the whole self is involved in such experiences, because we are dealing with real feelings.  Harvey, for example, became an actively participating member of the conference from that moment.  The change in his behavior was dramatic. 

"Letting go" is an important dimension of creative living.  It is difficult indeed to celebrate the temporary, to live fully in the present, when we are holding onto old emotional baggage which belongs to the past.  Letting go has many aspects.

One of these aspects is the giving up of our need to control situations and persons.  There are many people who are not comfortable unless they are in charge.  They must control what happens and when it will happen.  They fret under any leadership but their own.  The result is that there are no suprises.  And no joy.  And no one grows but the leader.

I once worked with a group which exhibited a high degree of control.  Its members had difficulty letting go and enjoying the freedom in whatever happened.  For one evening session with that group, I proposed a "moonwalk."

The moonwalk is experienced in a large plastic tent with a plastic floor that bounces up and down and throws you around whenever anyone steps on it.  To experience the moonwalk, you take off your shoes and crawl into the tent.  You must be willing to give up control of much of your movement and permit yourself to be bounced around in a crazy fashion for about ten minutes.  It can be excellent practice for letting go in order to celebrate the temporary.

It is important to recognize the direct relationship between letting go physically and psychologically.  We are increasingly admitting the connection between the body and the emotions.  Our very muscles "hold on" to old burdens, and if we can let go in the muscles, we can sometimes move past old hang-ups.

I would like to suggest a simple experiment in letting go for you to try.  If you have a strong bar from which you can hang by your arms, or a swing set in the backyard or nearby playground, use that.  Hang your full weight from the bar, holding on as tightly as you can.  Feel how much energy it takes to hold on.  Then relax and let go.  Concentrate you attention on the sensation of letting go and see how good it feels.

I was at a picnic recently with some friends, and several of the children were playing on a swing set nearby.  One three year old discovered a neat way to draw her parents' attention.  She would stand up in her swing and grab hold of a bar about five feet off the ground.  Then she would scream for help because she was "afraid" to let go.  Time after time the mother or father would rush over to rescue her so she wouldn't have to risk letting go.  She would have fallen about one foot to the ground.  I hope that little girl learns to let go and take the consequences.

If you do not have a bar from which you can hang, lie on the floor and take a strong grip on a table leg or a convenient piece of furniture.  Note how much strength it takes to hold on tightly.  Then relax every muscle in your body and let go.  You can practice letting go of things physically and see if there is any carry-over in your ability to let go in other ways.  People who are constipated, verbally or otherwise, need practice in letting go.

Another aspect of letting go is to relase the tensions within us and allow ourselves to feel.  Many persons have not given themselves permission to have feelings, thereby blocking feelings from their awareness.

It may be that their parents did not give them permission to feel, frowning on expressions of feeling in the family and making it a virtual taboo.  Many adults are walking around still carrying unwanted childhood taboos in their bodies.  They have not given themselves permission to be adult and make their own decisions.  And no one else can do it for them.

The need to know in advance exactly what will happen is another expression of control and holding on.  So we find people gathering for worship with every detail planned in advance and printed in a program - to hear a sermon on the importance of allowing the Holy Spirit to guide their lives!  When the element of suprise is gone, bordom sets in.  When we can let go some of our complusive controlling of the future, spontaneous and exciting things can begin to emerge.

The difficult truh to grasp is that when we do not let go, we often choke to death the beautiful things we had hoped to keep alive.  When we do not let go for our children, our holding on too long kills something in them for us.  "It's for their own good!" we say.  "They're not ready to be turned loose!"  Often it is our own need to hang on which prompts our behavior long after the children have been crying for us to let go.

The opposite is sometimes true as well.  Children may have difficulty letting go of their parents, thus prolonging unduly their period of dependence.

I remember an occasion when members of a group I was leading were asked to walk outside on a winter day and to allow themselves to be drawn to something of beauty.  One man came back inside, clutching a small handful of snow.  The snow had so attracted him with its beauty that he could not let it go.  He sat with that ball of snow in his hand, unable to leave it behind, and watched it turn to a lump of ice, then melt.  Had he been able to let it go, it could have continued its life as snow.

Letting go means to be more free.  Letting things happen.  Letting life bring you surprises and challenges and joy.  To let go some of the controls that bind us in is to let life flow instead of limiting life by channeling it all in advance.  Like the friend who called up recently and said, "Some of us are going to the grocery store to get some things for a picnic.  We'll be ready to eat in about an hour.  Could you join us?"  What is more delightful than a suprise picnic?  Or more disappointing that one which is planned a month in advance and is rained out?

To celebrate the temporary
Is to get rid
Of that hairdo
That prevents
Celebrating
That can't be rained on
Or touched
Or violated
By rolling
Down a hill
To be free of all
That self-inflicted
Bondage
Is
To celebrate
The temporary

Celebrate the Temporary
Clyde Reid
P. 56-64
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2007, 12:24:11 PM »

I'd like to add just a bit more to the current piece by Dr. Reid.  It's not that I disagree with him, there are just a few more points I'd like to add.

You know, here's the thing: We have this idea that in order to evolve or develop we have to get rid of bad habits. This is a very common and popular idea, but can be a big mistake. Why? Because this is looking only from a relative perspective. Our culturally conditioned idea is that freedom is an activity thing. Like, freedom to us means to choose this activity over that activity. I need to be free to think that way I want to think, say what I want to say; have freedom of speech, freedom of movement, the right to carry arms, etc.; all these freedoms. In the west, well in the world today for that matter, the idea of freedom has to do just with activity choices. And this is a kind of freedom, we can say. It is a relative freedom. But it is not absolute freedom. Actually that kind of relative freedom is still bondage, because it is based on thinking mind.

Real freedom is being free from thinking mind. Freedom is being free from a mind full of thoughts, opinions, issues, ideas, philosophies, commitments, promises, and ideals.

This is what I have been referring to as ‘living in the Now’. But it can also be awareness training. In any case it is not something to think about or debate. Not something to have an opinion about. That is the wonderful thing about freedom. It doesn't torture you to death with its own opinion. We think of freedom as something to do with our personality, our ego; something that we demand. We demand to have our freedoms.

Our personal ego is indeed the fuehrer. Our thinking mind is the dictator that dictates to us that we will do this and we will do that. That's why I say that there is no such thing as free choice. Of course there is relative free choice. But that's not really free choice, is it? We're choosing based on our conditioned mind. This freedom that we cherish is merely a conditioned choice. Not real freedom. Real freedom is being free from that conditioned choice. Freedom is when we just do what is in front of us because it needs to be done, and that's all. We have no thought about it one way or the other. We don't appreciate it and we don't not appreciate it.

Maybe we can say that there is an overriding sense of gratitude, because that is a quality that arises out of our essential self. But this is not gratitude as apposed to ingratitude. It is not something that makes us feel good about our self. Look out. If it makes us feel like a good person, then it has within it the ability to make us feel like a bad person, if we don't do what is in front of us. So this is not what I am talking about at all. I am saying freedom is doing just what is in the moment, because it needs to be done. That’s it.

Seems there’s a fundamental mistake about freedom; about seeing freedom as an activity thing. If we are here in the present, we always know. There is never any problem. We always know what to do.

So this is true freedom, surrendering. And true bondage is being bound by the monkey mind; bound by this event driven mind that chases us from moment to moment to moment, and make us chase life in this way. 'I've got to have this. I can't wait to have that. I am looking forward to this moment and this moment and this moment", and "You should have seen me in that moment and that moment and that moment". Of course this is the way the relative mind works. And there is no one who doesn't have this mind.

The true master still has this event driven mind, only s/he knows the nature of it. S/He is practicing. So s/he is in on the joke. S/He is not trying to get rid of it. That's not freedom. That is not evolution. That is not awakening, trying to get rid of the relative mind. Seeing something wrong and trying to fix it; this is the mistake. We can't eliminate our ego. We can't get rid of our personality. This would be a disaster! This is the nature of our being. This relative mind…it has a full pillar in the Temple of Wisdom! You take the pillar out and the temple will fall down! So it is very important. It has a function. The problem is mistaken identity. We think we are only that pillar, so we miss the whole temple. And all the ceremonies happen in the temple.

Just be present. This is like saying ‘just be in love.’ Just live in love. We don't have to make something happen. We are perfect already. We have just not yet noticed. Certainly our superego doesn't think so. But that is part of our structure that, if we identify with it, it keeps us from noticing. Just notice!

z
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline daphne

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2007, 02:37:36 PM »
The nice thing about "freedom" is that it is multi-layered; it provides for any type of freedom that we each may desire. The desire itself offers us further insights, until, I suppose, it no longer matters whether we are free or not; we just are, and perception is then just a position of the AP.
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2007, 02:58:53 PM »

The nice thing about "freedom" is that it is multi-layered; it provides for any type of freedom that we each may desire. The desire itself offers us further insights, until, I suppose, it no longer matters whether we are free or not; we just are, and perception is then just a position of the AP.

 ;D
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline daphne

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2007, 03:04:10 PM »
"The compulsion to possess and hold on to things is not unique. Everyone who wants to follow the warrior's path has to rid himself of this fixation in order not to focus our dreaming body on the weak face of the second attention." - The Eagle's Gift

Jahn

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #111 on: November 19, 2007, 05:32:44 AM »
We are perfect already. We have just not yet noticed. Certainly our superego doesn't think so.

This is something one may discuss because to be perfect does not invite Change. What is meant by "we are perfect" is that we shall have no shame about who we are. Something like to tell a extremely fat person - you are perfect the way you are - addressing their core self as a living being.  This is correct from one point of view but misunderstood if it may take away the reason to loose weight and take up healthy lifestyles (making sound choices).

In class we talk about little ego, or the pretender. The ego that wants to be, the fragment that imitate. If super ego is the same I don't know.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 05:35:55 AM by Jahn »

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #112 on: November 19, 2007, 05:56:03 AM »

This is something one may discuss because to be perfect does not invite Change. What is meant by "we are perfect" is that we shall have no shame about who we are. Something like to tell a extremely fat person - you are perfect the way you are - addressing their core self as a living being.  This is correct from one point of view but misunderstood if it may take away the reason to loose weight and take up healthy lifestyles (making sound choices).

In class we talk about little ego, or the pretender. The ego that wants to be, the fragment that imitate. If super ego is the same I don't know.

Thanks Jahn for the input.  This is what I'm looking for ;)

Zam
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #113 on: November 22, 2007, 12:57:48 AM »
You might ask yourself what it is you need to let go.  For some of you, it is making decisions in advance about what will happen in the life of your family, or with your spouse - and then being crushed and angry when it doesn't always work out that way.

For others, it is the enjoyment of suffering you need to let go.  I have worked with many people in groups who complain that they have a problem.  But when offered the opportunity to solve the problem, they suddenly realize how much they enjoy having it.  Displaying their problem may keep them in the center.  Even the pain may feel good to them.  After all, their emotions reason, it is better to hurt than to be ignored.  So they do not grow.

An interesting aspect of letting go is what we call "letting your child out to play."  There is a beautiful human relations exercise called the blind trust walk.  You ask members of a group to choose a partner, then one partner closes his eyes and becomes the "blind partner."  The other leads him around for a stated length of time, perhaps ten miutes, introducing him to a variety of sensory experiences - touching different textures, walking and running, going up and down stairs, bumping into people, tasting or smelling objects.  It is an excellent exercise to help people heighten awareness through the senses, and celebrate the temporary in the world around them.

One time I was leading an elderly Canadian lady as my partner.  At first she was very stiff and reserved.  She did not want to touch objects I would hand her, reacting as though they might dirty her hands.  As the walk proceeded, however, she began to loosen up and enjoy herself.

Then it was my turn to be the blind partner.  As she began leading me, she relaxed further and began to enjoy the experience more and more.  I suddenly had the sensation that there were two distinct people leading me - the elderly lady still held my wrist, but there was a little girl nearby, giggling and delighting in her freedom.  My partner had "let her little girl out to play," and I could sense the difference dramatically.  It was beautiful to feel - until her little girl ran me into a table at full speed!

It is a nice thing to let your child out to play once in awhile.  Our adult roles call for us to be serious and "straight" so much of the time that we often forget to enjoy life.  Yet Jesus calls us to "be as little children."  It is delightful to experience people enjoying their "childness" occasionally.

I once went hiking in the Rockies with the Colorado Mountain Club.  A friend and I hiked about three miles up a mountain slope to the top of a beautiful pass.  The trail was covered from time to time by banks of snow which we had to cross.  My friend and I would throw snowballs, or put ice down each other's backs.  At one point we slid on a snowbank on the seat of our pants about fifty feet down the mountain slope.  Within the bounds of reason and safety, we had "let our child out to play."  It made the day even more exhilarating.

Possessing people is another thing some of us need to let go.  I remember hearing a lady at a party ask a man, "Does she belong to you?"  She indicated one of the women in the group.  "No," he replied.  "She is my wife, but she belongs to herself."  Many people have the conviction that when you are married, you belong to your spouse.

The husband who feels that his wife is his property becomes quite upset if she has any deep friendships outside the marriage.  In extreme cases, he will not even permit her to enjoy talking to another man, much less have a life of her own.

The same is true of the wife who feels she owns her husband.  Such possessiveness kills relationships.  It smothers love and builds frustration and boredom.  It is one of the things we must learn to let go.

A corollary of this attitude of possessiveness is the feeling that we cannot have a relationship with someone unless it is a permanent, lifelong commitment.  The person who believes this then restricts himself or herself to family and a few friends, ruling out temporary relationships.  But temporary relationships, as we have seen, can have their own special beauty.  They do not need to be permanent or total to have meaning.

I remember a young colledge student I once sat with on an airplain trip.  The flight was about thirty minutes long.  But we got into a conversation that had both depth and meaning.  We felt a special bond in the common understandings that emerged.  A thirty-minute friendship may not seem like much, but it can be a thing of rare beauty.  It has been years, and I have not forgotten it.

When we can give up the myth of permanence as a condition for sharing ourselves, we can celebrate temporary relationships as well as longer ones.  After all, what is time?  One day is a long time.  One week is forever.  One year is perhaps a seventieth of our whole life.

Sometimes people find a meaningful temporary friendship, then try and hang onto it.  They quickly jot down names and addresses and promise to "look you up" at a later time.  They have not learned to celebrate a relationship for its temporariness and let it go.  They are caught in the mindset which says that a relationship to have meaning must be ongoing.  Disappintment is often the result when we try and re-create a contact that had meaning in a particular place and time.

Letting go is a basic lesson of life, and is a necessity if we are to learn how to celebrate the temporary.  We must let go of our bondage to possessions.  We must let go of our family, our friends, even our life.  So long as we cling to life as a permanent possession, it will not be as full as it can be.  To be willing and ready to give it up at the right time is to celebrate the temporariness of life.

To die gracefully is to live fully.  To cling too tightly to life is to kill it prematurely.

I find Jesus to be a man who knew how to celebrate the temporary.  He taught us not to be anxious about tomorrow, but to let tomorrow take care of itself.  And he knew how to enjoy a good party!

What do you need to let go?  Why not make a short list of those things in your life you need to give up.  Then decide which is most important and go to work on letting it go so you can more easily celebrate the temporary.

Celebrate the Temporary
Clyde Reid
P. 64-68
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

erismoksha

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #114 on: November 22, 2007, 08:39:57 AM »
That issue on possessiveness is a good one. Its a means of control, and controlling another individual for selfish reasons.

I keep in mind, we dont even own our own lives. We really dont. If this was the case, I could prevent myself from having a physical death if I chose it, cause its 'mine' my body and soul and self, right? But I cant prevent a physical death. This body, if anything is borrowed, so I question if my soul, the self, is my own too then? Or am I also, borrowing that too?

So possessing another invididual, course, when people feel the need to, thats not really love. Thats control, thats trying to take ownership of something you dont own. Cause if you dont even own what is 'you,' then you cant own another. And even trying to keep away friends, or loved ones, which that happens a lot of course, is really possessive, because then its limiting that other invididual from even loving, and there's no reason why people cant love, more than one person, course, theres all sorts of versions of love, or even friendship. But to even try to possess 'that,' then the other isnt really being loving. They're just acting out in fear. And maybe its some really innate fear, because oneday, that invididual will be gone from them anyway, but its also fear of the impermanent too, and change, and all that goes with.

But the funny thing is, that possessiveness, is usually the reason people end up leaving folks like that. If they wouldn't have tried to be restrictive to them, then they would've stayed, or trying to change them into something they're not. Or isolate them. Then the other will only wish to be 'free' and freedom will become a desire, also so they can be free to love, who they want, when they want, without restriction.

Offline Michael

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #115 on: November 22, 2007, 04:09:05 PM »
Something like to tell a extremely fat person - you are perfect the way you are - addressing their core self as a living being.  This is correct from one point of view but misunderstood if it may take away the reason to loose weight and take up healthy lifestyles (making sound choices).

interesting point Jahn. I am often before this - because to affirm the core, is a part of the process in changing the outer pattern. person needs to feel core-affirmed before they can allow themselves to let go of surface behaviours.

I have this problem when I criticise someone for a certain behaviour that is unproductive - they take it as a criticism of core. I say, you should stop picking your nose in public. And they say, "Oh yes, I know I'm a really bad person - I won't go out into public ever again!".

and then I say, "No, that's not what I mean... bla bla bla..."

so how do you tell a person to change a surface behaviour that is not core, and really only requires a little effort to pull out of a pattern habit, without the other person feeling you have just denied their whole existence - because they already a feel lack of self-esteem, where any trigger lays them low.

then they use that to avoid criticism - the last thing anyone wants is some grovelling misery moaning on the floor - so they say, If you criticise me in any way, you'll be responsible for me going into a big identity dive!

Jahn

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #116 on: November 22, 2007, 07:56:50 PM »

so how do you tell a person to change a surface behaviour that is not core, and really only requires a little effort to pull out of a pattern habit, without the other person feeling you have just denied their whole existence - because they already a feel lack of self-esteem, where any trigger lays them low.

That is the whole issue. And any "tell a person to ..." won't work among common people. It/you will only be perceived as another embarrassing thing from a bad guy in the outer cruel world.

Any change must come from within. Much talk is about empowerment these days and they make psychology out of that. What it is all about is to accumulate energy and to increase awareness. This can be done in cognition therapy and groups that work with empowerment, but they may lack some essential tools or good therapists, that present strategies rather than tools for real change.

 The only way I know to make change possible is to start a dialogue about the mechanisms behind change or improvement and thereby increase awareness among the students on the layers that covers our core self. To be aware of the differences between the pretending ego and self. Then perhaps any relevant criticism "hit" the pretender but the observer may balance by addressing the core, that says that such criticism is valid.

However, I've seen many senior students defend themselves (the pretender) when the need for correction is proposed by the guide. We have our patterns and we continue to repeat them. If we are unable to change these patterns and the guide has become a parrot, repeating the need for correction, then the guide turn into silence and life become our teacher.

So to follow advices from the guide is the easy way to go. Life is such a tough teacher.

 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 08:02:42 PM by Jahn »

erik

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2007, 08:11:36 PM »
Life is such a tough teacher.

Indeed, and if we resolutely refuse to learn in this life, we schedule meeting with Yama, come back, try again, maybe learn a bit, then next time we try again and so it goes. Whether one wants it or not, realises or not, but the fundamental cosmic teaching-learning process proceeds in its own pace and direction. It is such a stunning thing! Our little 'I'-s are utterly bewildered by trying to grasp the larger context of every moment. :)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 08:21:38 PM by erik »

Offline Michael

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #118 on: November 22, 2007, 09:14:53 PM »
i ask this question because it has confronted me for many years now. one way to tackle it is to 'demonstrate' what the correct behaviour should be - action speaks louder than words etc.

the problem with this is that the other person simply doesn't notice - holds a secret attitude that their behaviour is correct, and you are just weak or a fool in that area. many years can be spent at this method with absolutely no result.

another tactic is to adopt the same behaviour back - to mirror them. That usually gets them all upset - its a sure fire way to make them move into extreme, either anger, or self-pity or whatever is their poison. Plus it tells them that that behaviour is normal - see, you do it also.

I take your point, the change must come from within. But even people I know who are actively engaged in that, still exhibit the same problem I am talking about. In fact it can get even worse - the more you know the better you are at defending yourself.

Another method, is to avoid challenge when things are tender - when the 'mood' is on. Then approach the matter later. The problem with that is that later it's the last thing you want to talk about, plus if you do, the other person denies it. Because of the 'multiple persona' issue - the persona that does the behaviour is no longer in, someone else is there who doesn't act that way, so they don't know what you are talking about. Thus you have to speak to the persona who does the behaviour, and that persona cleverly sets up the most advanced defensive strategy imaginable.

Life - yes that's right, oh but that can be such a cruel teacher. When we say life is the best teacher, we are saying karma - that there is an intelligence in the events of the world, even if that is the simple consequence of actions and choices - the inevitable result of behaviour. In my experience, it is ruthless and merciless - much better to have a friend who will tell us when we need to look at something.

Jahn

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Re: Living in the Now
« Reply #119 on: November 23, 2007, 06:04:50 AM »
Life - yes that's right, oh but that can be such a cruel teacher. When we say life is the best teacher, we are saying karma - that there is an intelligence in the events of the world, even if that is the simple consequence of actions and choices - the inevitable result of behaviour. In my experience, it is ruthless and merciless - much better to have a friend who will tell us when we need to look at something.

It is a very dense timeframe that we share. One "spiritual" problem according to this multiple pretender that I see is that there is such a complete smorgasboard of every spiritual path that is available. People get some beliefs here and there and suddenly they are able to explain everything and they just get impossible to reach out to. Their new found "spirituality" create their wall. One essential thread in the CC books was - make it simple - do the work ... face it here and now ... that is a kind of goal itself. If one can encourage that approach- fast, simple, and furious  ;D - maybe such advice will be an eye opener?

     ~.~
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 06:07:55 AM by Jahn »

 

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