Author Topic: Music  (Read 507 times)

Offline Michael

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Music
« on: November 20, 2007, 10:16:56 PM »
I feel the need to explain some things about music. Music is everywhere today, yet it is even harder to find than ever before.

Sound comes from the deepest core of our being. That which reaches furthermost away from our daylight consciousness, is timbre itself. Then comes rhythm, then comes harmony, and last comes melody. Words are not part of music - if you are listening to the words, and thinking about them in a piece of music, you are engaged in poetry - another subject altogether. Listening to the words of understandable vocals takes you away from the music, but does create a separate quality, equality of interest, but better discussed in poetry.

I start here, because this hierarchy of priority is critical to what I want to say.

I know, and have said, that sometimes the most poignant music in our life comes to us in very poor quality sound. But I was speaking there of a different matter. Here I want to advise those who have not studied or explored the power of music, how to go about it.

It is a mistake to think that musicians know music, or let’s say can access the deeper realms of music, better than the audience - the listener. The musician is affected much more because she works in music, immerses herself in sound, and often has the soul and physical sensitivities to become active to sound. But always remember the musician is like the bus driver - much of her awareness is on the technical considerations, so that only a portion in any one moment can be devoted to pure listening, pure absorption in the experience.

I began my musical journey as a listener, then only later took up playing because I had trouble finding the pathways my ears wished to travel - I primarily play and record music for my own experience of musical journeying as a listener. Here are some considerations on how to intensify your experience and the benefits.

Many make the mistake of saying it's the music not the sound they like - justifying why they don’t spend money on a good sound system. This is akin to saying its sex, not the body, they like. Sound quality is paramount - it is this which reaches back to those depths in our being.

Today we see a direction in musical expression and appreciation that is taking people away from sound.

The MP3 format, first employed to accommodate those short lived products which could play analogue and digital through the same device. They played analogue or digital tapes - I recall it was Philips, who have always been a pioneer in musical componentry. This was because they couldn’t get all the sound through the delivery point in fast enough time. They adopted a very clever psycho-acoustic technique which drops off those sounds you won’t notice missing.

In complex musical passages, or complex frequency ranges, you only hear the most prominent, so if they take away the less noticeable parts, you will be none the wiser, and bingo - you also have a significantly smaller file. Even the best quality MP3, at 320 Kbs CBR using Lame codex, is still only approx. 24% of the original. 76% of the original sound is not there! What you hear in most MP3 format is much smaller than that.

They have done scientific studies now which examine what the brain does when listening to MP3. It takes much more effort to listen to MP3 than to WAV format. (WAV is the basic raw digital sound, for Windows.) The reason is that the brain is struggling to fill in the missing parts! MP3 should only be listened to when it is impossible to get the CD, which is in WAV format.

Now even WAV, on your CD is only 16 Bit, 44.1 kHz. Recording studios sample up to 24 or 32 Bit, and 96 kHz or greater. The sound quality there is far superior to what you get on a CD.  (24 bit word length is all you need - 96 kHz sampling is less significant.)

There has been a battle going on in the music industry, between high quality stereo DVD delivery of music and lesser quality 5 channel surround DVD music. Last I heard the 5 channel was winning, because everyone now has those 5 channel surround TV systems. You are unlikely to hear high quality 24 bit digital sound for some time.

Tape has always been a better quality format, as it can support up to frequencies of 24 kHz. CD/16 Bit can only get to 18 kHz frequencies. They say the ear can only hear to about 8-12 kHz, and then only when you are young - older people can only hear 4-6 kHz or less. Recording engineers worth their salt know that’s crap. That is if you play into the ear those frequencies and ask the person to say if they can hear it. But if you add those frequencies to music, there is a definite audible effect, like adding ‘air’ around the sound.

The reason everyone said CD was better quality to cassette players, was because no one had well maintained good quality cassette players.

After tape comes vinyl - still a great sound, but dear me, oh how we have become annoyed by all those scratch sounds. Vinal still has the power to penetrate the room much more than digital on CD.

Lets accept it, CD is now the means to good sound. But you should be aware of what your ears are hearing. Overtones in digital are square - meaning you hear a subtle (but noticeable to good ears) harshness, and ‘edginess’ to the sound. You have just got used to it, but the body is not fooled - take it from me! This remains a definite disadvantage to using CD digital for mystical work.

Now we come to your system. If you think small crappy cheap sound systems are ‘good enough’ you’re an idiot.

The first thing is that poor quality systems - CD players, amplifiers and speakers (and cables!) deliver a sound with subtle distortions. The rule of thumb here is that with high quality sound systems and recordings, you can have the volume louder and it will not disturb the conversation. Poor system sound, has to be turned down. You want to test? First get CDs of The Beatles - some of the best recorded music ever, plus it utilised specific recording/arranging techniques to reach a high level in this department (dynamics). Listen to it on a cheap player verses a better system during a conversation - notice the difference.

Combination systems are basically crap. You should build your system with separate components. Get a regular subscription to CD Choice and read their tips - an excellent mag for audiophiles.

Next, know the difference between US, Japanese and UK sound. Japs make CD players, and have a brittle sound, but some are quite good (eg Marantz). The real distinction in speakers is between the US sound which boosts the bass (via porting), to give that gut-punch effect, and the UK sound much preferred by Classical music listeners. This is all in the speaker design. For quality sound, always go for the UK sound, over the gut-punch sound.

Another feature between good and poor speaker design, is that most youth go for bass boost. Better listening speakers focus on the quality of the midrange frequencies. All good speakers should have a clear sweet treble - often hard to find.

If you don’t have a good sound system, for god sake, never listen to music through computer speakers (unless they are high quality). Always opt for earphones. Now which earphones? Good ones, and they are not easy to know. Here, let me tell you straight out, get Beyer DT990 headphones - excellent sound at affordable cost (don’t get the Pro ones as they are for engineers, not listeners).

In amplifiers, there is also a distinction between US and EU sound, but there it is really personal choice. The US does build some superb amplifiers, esp in the guitar amp line!

I prefer 4 speakers, but I don’t do 5 channel. I use duplication of stereo. I like 4 speaker as I can sit in the middle of the speakers. Speaker placement is critical, and depends on the room. I prefer my speakers to be above me, but you should be aware that sitting in front of speakers - in-your-face - is not the best way to hear. Quite often you will be moved more by music when you are in the adjoining room. Some audiophiles actually turn their speakers to face the wall corners, just to get that ‘room’ sound.

Lastly, you need to be alone with the lights out - it is surprising how another’s mind travels in a listening room.

Next, I want to talk about how to listen to music, and what to listen for, and how to allow it to become a world ... for another time.

Remember, always go for quality - for a little extra money, you are getting someone else’s inspiration, love and dedication
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 08:13:08 PM by Michael »

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: Music
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 01:42:36 AM »
I love to explore music.

Im attracted to the sound far before I even hear the lyrics (I ponder this and why I even post song lyrics sometimes, and then discover another whole experience within words)

To be in the company of someone who listens this way (sound first, lyrics perhaps later or not at all) is funny to me.. I dont know how many times someone has said to me.. Im surprised you like this song.. do you even listen to the words.. ha! No actually I don't sometimes..

Which has opened up a vast range of listening pleasure for me to experience because it reaches far beyond the native tongue.

Id dare say some of my favorite music, I dont have any idea what the song is saying in words.

So those stumbling in upon my woodland in the midst of my listening.. often shake their heads and leave me to my oddness.

Part of me laughs and another mourns.
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: Music
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 01:46:47 AM »
I also am in need of a new sterio system.. my current player has been my dvd surround sound system.
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Jahn

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Re: Music
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 05:35:16 AM »

I still can use my record player from 1975. T1 - (Turntable one) is actually the name. It is a studio/disco turntable - and I use headphones - sometimes wireless.
Also got my 2X50W amplifier from -75 - but it is not usedto run the current speakers, I only use the pre-amplifier. For the speakers I have a cheap combi system which I sometimes use just to get snaphots of the latest hits to the cassette recorder. The separate Amplifier is also a Swedish small scale lab construct called Xelex. Genuine parts, I have done one service repairment in 32 years!

I have some horns speakers waiting in the garage. They are handmade threeway and the filter split at 400 Hz and at 1500-2000 Hz for the treble if I remember it right. The bass horn is in the size of a refrigator or large freezer. Smack and Klinger horns. Memories from the old days. These horns could be used in small disco clubs.

However, as a whole it feels like my sound equipment are falling apart.

Jahn

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Re: Music
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 05:36:13 AM »
It is a mistake to think that musicians know music, or let’s say can access the deeper realms of music, better than the audience - the listener. The musician is affected much more because she works in music, immerses herself in sound, and often has the soul and physical sensitivities to become active to sound. But always remember the musician is like the bus driver - much of her awareness is on the technical considerations, so that only a portion in any one moment can be devoted to pure listening, pure absorption in the experience.

Interesting reflection.

erik

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Re: Music
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 07:19:25 AM »
Interesting info, Michael! I wonder about that MP3-thing. In the army, I fired quite a few times a big gun - 130 mm artillery piece - and I do not hear frequencies higher than 16kHz, nor do I hear too well quiet sounds. You think that makes MP3 more acceptable? I've been listening to that 'Isle of the Dead' MP3 through half-sleep and sleep - it seems to have quite a power of its own this way.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 03:00:19 AM by Juhani »

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Music
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 11:55:51 AM »
Good information.

Rekindles the flame of when I really used to 'listen' or 'feel' music.  Some folks I knew had good quality equipment and we used to do this.

Thanks again,

z
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Music
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 03:06:06 PM »
Michael,

Have you, or can you explain how Gurdjieff's law of octaves have had an impact on your music?  (Or anything else relating to this you care to share.)

I, personally, am still working through this information, and cannot even attempt a comment concerning G's views in relation to my musical abilities....

Zam
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Music
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 04:21:59 PM »

Interesting info, Michael! I wonder about that MP3-thing. In the army, I fired quite a few times a big gun - 152mm artillery piece - and I do not hear frequencies higher than 16kHz, nor do I hear too well quiet sounds. You think that makes MP3 more acceptable? I've been listening to that 'Isle of the Dead' MP3 through half-sleep and sleep - it seems to have quite a power of its own this way.

Another Army gent....congrats ;)

z
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Michael

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Re: Music
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 04:32:07 PM »
I was very taken with his understanding of the meanings of the notes in the scale, along with Steiner's lecture on that also. I don't use Gurdjieff's ideas in music, but I do in any project i do.
I have used Steiner's ideas - ie the relative time periods of the notes - that we currently are in the 'third', and that the fifth was the last period, so that is why it sounds a little dead to our ears.

I have spent a lot of time exploring the full nature of each note - the two 'songs' I posted the other day were an attempt to explore the flat fifth. Most would know of the flat fifth from the famous song Maria (I just met a girl...). The 'i' (in 'Maria') is flat. Ma is the tonic, i is the flat fifth which resolves into the fifth with the a.

I spent a long time on the second, and still do to some extent. The piece i put up recently with the video footage of India was built around an exploration of the lesser used notes in the major scale - like a shadow of the major arpeggio. I liked that feel. It emphasised the second instead of the third - i find the third very melodramatic, like those US TV shows where people talk about their private lives - it's too obviously sweet and sour (major and minor third). I love the second and sixth. India is basically the major seventh - sums it up in one note.

But his idea that there are octaves within tone steps has remained a fascination for me, tho I can't say I have really understood that. i am always looking for it, and I now think I know what he was getting at, but not sure.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 06:53:35 PM by Michael »

Offline Michael

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Re: Music
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2007, 04:33:17 PM »
Another Army gent....congrats ;)

z

anyone who has fired rifles, esp without earphones, will have lost the higher frequencies in their opposite ear - not the ear next to the rifle, but the other one.

Offline Zamurito

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Re: Music
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 04:45:15 PM »
anyone who has fired rifles, esp without earphones, will have lost the higher frequencies in their opposite ear - not the ear next to the rifle, but the other one.

Point being, we do the best we can do...

z
"Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors."

Offline Michael

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Re: Music: Compression
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2008, 01:10:21 AM »
I want to explain a little more about the music you hear and how it's engineered.

Compression is perhaps the most significant process that music undergoes.

To begin, have you noticed that when you hear loud music, there comes a point when as you turn up the volume, your ears seem to register less and less increase. This is because your ears naturally compress the sound beyond a certain decibel threshold - they push down the perceived volume. But in a certain way - it doesn't just reduce the volume, it tends to 'saturate' the sound.

The same applies to every component in recording of music, from the microphone to the cables, to the recording equipment - every part of the journey adds compression, and so an engineer's task is to find the threshold that each component has, and then to ask how far above or below should the signal be, for the desired effect.

What we commonly know of now as 'compression' really began with tape recorders. Tape had the strange effect of saturating when it records 'into the red', ie, beyond it's threshold. That threshold changed depending on the use of Dolby and other noise reduction methods.

The thing is, if you reduce the volume, the base noise level of the medium creeps closer to the 'desired' hearing level. So to have a clean background noise base, you try to record as loud as possible. Natural tape saturation was often a desired effect - it is still considered the best effect for recording drums.

Then they built analogue compressors. There were different methods, essentially replicating the tape process, but added many parameters and effects. It has been said that the one piece of equipment a recording engineer would take to a desert island would be the compressor - it was an instrument in itself.

You can set the attack, the release, the threshold at which it cuts in and the slope or degree of compression. This enables you to contour the sound with precise control. Unfortunately, compression had a serious drawback - loss of sound quality. This means all the fine nuances of tonal colour the instrument gives off, get lost in compression. That is why it is never used in recording classical music - listeners are too keen to hear the full richness of high quality instruments.

In electric guitars, it is most commonly used, esp before the distortion unit, so that an electric distorted guitar sounds more like a cello than an acoustic guitar which has a percussive attack and a very quick release sound shape - compression changes that by reducing the level of initial attack and elongating the tail to give a wailing effect.

High quality analogue compressors were often also valve units, which had it's own compression tonality - resulting in much even overtones, perceived as 'fatness' and 'warmth' in the sound. Quite a beautiful effect, which compensated for the loss of tonal dynamics. (Digital music is characterised by odd overtones, which give a brittle harshness and 'edgy' sound.)

But the primary use of compression in popular music, was not aesthetic sound shaping, but it's end use. Listening to the radio in the motor car.

Have you ever tried to listen to classical music in your car (unless you own one of those ultra quiet cars). It is nearly impossible - you have to keep fiddling the volume knob.

The music comes through the radio at a consistent volume, so if an engineer can raise the volume of the whole piece, not only does it jump out at you, but it also has no quiet sections, that you can't hear against background noise. And we have come to expect that quality in our music - unfortunately it's not quality.

To achieve this, engineers compressed the shit out of their produced music - squeezing as much of the music as possible all up to the threshold limit (and beyond in analogue recordings). So you get a punchy sound, but a flat timbre, with little of the original instrument's tonal colouring.

Then came digital recording, and so appeared digital compressors, which tried to replicate the effects of analogue compressors. (Just to clarify - analogue processors played with the actual signal itself, whereas with digital, the analogue sound travels through the air, mic and cable to the unit, where it hits what they call a 'truth table' which tries to digitally represent every aspect of sound that technology knows about. Then it processes that representation. At the end, it re-transforms the music, from digital representations into analogue sound so your ear can hear it.)

But digital compressors have never been able to match the quality of analogue compressors. So what is a case of shit-squeezing - this process of 'maximization' - moved from an analogue effect that was quite tolerable from high quality units, to a digital process that robs the music of much more of its character. Audible consequence - although the volume is higher, the music seems to be set back in the speakers. With low compressed and high quality recordings, the music extends out of the speakers and seems to have real physical body in the room. This is also the effect of records. It is rare to find this quality in digital music.

Digital music has the advantage of 'spread' of sound. It seems to expand horizontally (eg the synthesizer), but not out into the room. It is more like wall paper.

As a result I gave up on maximizing compression, as I sought more and more the tonality of the original instrument. This puts my music at a disadvantage in the public sphere - for a start, it has to be turned up louder to get the equivalent volume mean of other commercial recordings. But also it has more dynamics, meaning it rises and falls much more within the sound itself - this causes what I see psychologically as a 'failure to sustain the universe'.

High compression creates a sense of claiming the perimeters of the universe. It fills the universe, reaching to its limit, then holding that consistently to the end. This gives a sense of security to the listener. Music less compressed, has an expanding and contracting perimeter, which tends to betray the security expected psychologically. It is a little subtly uncertain and unpredictable - not qualities much appreciated in our modern world.

I do something else to replicate this maximisation process. I go into the wave form itself, find the extremes, and manually decrease their volume - this is a micro management of the sound, and can only have limited results, else I would have to work on a piece for years to create the same effect as a maximiser compressor.

But also I have come to appreciate the changing dynamics in sound - which is placing me perceptually outside the main stream (again >:()

Just be aware that when you hear music that jumps out at you in comparison to other pieces, and sustains that volume - you are hearing that at the cost of quality of sound. Best to be aware of the choice that has been made for you.

The reason I want to explain this, is because there is a phenomenon well known to audiophiles. Most audiophiles will tell you how their ears changed over time and in accord with their closer involvement with sound. Speakers are a good example. When young, we like bass boost - like to feel the bass in our chests or whatever. Later, as one learns more about sound appreciation, the next phase is the discovery of treble. The quality of treble is a thing of great delight - much treble is harsh, but a sweet and vibrant treble, is truly a thing of beauty.

Last, after more development of the appreciative faculties, we move to mid-range. This is where all the texture and colour of sound exists. Very good speakers focus on this area, the mid-range.

Another example I read only recently by a man and his friend testing lightpipe cables, which transfer the sound between units. His friend liked the cheaper cable's sound because it was more punchy. But when the author listened, he saw immediately what his friend was talking about, but to his ears, the more expensive (read very expensive) cable had a purity of sound, which he was far keener to seek out than the punch of the other cable. He commented on this, by referring to the way experienced listeners seek a different sound experience to the inexperienced listener.

This is all about what I said earlier, how sound timbre is the earliest, or deepest layer of our soul (the OM). Structure aspects come later. This means that the quality of sound has a more powerful influence on our souls, and as such we should seek it out as a priority.

Structure is a characteristic of the 2nd and 1st attention. Pure sound is from the 3rd attention. By structure I mean relationships - one aspect to another. Pure sound is endless and amorphous. The first structure is rhythm - the purest form of which is the pulse. It is a relationship of one point of emphasis to the next, and is the beginning of movement. Thus it is the Damaru of Shiva.

The next level of structure is harmony. One note blends with another in a special way, that can be built upon to create a tapestry of sound - it is really a 'community' of sound. Then comes melody which is really 'personality'. Highly intricate relationships of notes to form a flow of meaning to our emotional bodies.

So to enter into the pure sound experience, you should not look to popular music. The best music is chamber classical music. This is because the engineers have become expert in capturing the heart of truly beautifully made instruments - up close. You can hear the colour and texture of each instrument's sound. Orchestras are too big to indulge in this intimate sound that one instrument makes in the hands of a good musician.

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: Music
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2008, 01:23:32 AM »
Excellent post M, the whisper within the shadow of the hoop drum strike.. yes?

Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline kaycee

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Re: Music
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2008, 02:41:43 AM »
I remember the first time I put on a really good set of stereo headphones and actually saw the paths the music took through my awareness.  Incredible!!

I sing, pretty much all the time.  I've been asked why I don't sing professionally.  My answer is, "I sing, I don't choose to entertain."

There's a fine line between music for music and music for entertainment.  As is there a distinction between (how to phrase this?) playing an instrument or becoming one with its purpose. 

I totally agree, a well put together chamber group in a small room with wonderful acoustics is to me what heaven must feel like.

Luv, K
The journey becomes an adventure only when the baggage gets lost.

 

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