Author Topic: Melchizedek  (Read 254 times)

erik

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Melchizedek
« on: April 11, 2008, 01:17:47 AM »
I had a conversation with one theologian and he said that Melchizedek was a priest of True God some 2,000 years before Jesus. Jesus was actually considered to be the King, Priest and Prophet of the Melchizedek line.

Some thoughts on the subject including the statement that Jesus was one of the incarnations (the other was, for example, Adam) of Melchizedek:

Quote
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen042.html

Another incarnation of Jesus is the Old Testament figure known as Melchizedek, the High Priest and King of Salem. It is clear from the Book of Hebrews that Melchizedek was not an ordinary man, assuming he even was a man. A careful examination of the evidence concerning the existence of Melchizedek reveals him to be a previous reincarnation of Jesus. There are strong parallels between Melchizedek and Jesus: both are the Son of God, priest of the Order of Melchizedek, King of Righteous, King of Peace, the Messiah, appointed by God, eternal priesthood, and preexistent. Besides the Biblical evidence, there exists evidence from the discoveries of early Christian texts in 1945 and the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947. There is also extra-Biblical revelations that support this Melchizedek-Jesus connection.

Identical Characteristics of Melchizedek and Jesus
Both are:    
(1)    Sons of God
(2)    High Priests of God
(3)    Kings of Righteousness
(4)    Appointed by God
(5)    Kings of Peace
(6)    Eternal ones
(7)    Priests
(8 )    Pre-existent ones
(9)    Association with Abraham
(10)    Rituals of bread and wine
(11)    Anointed ones         

Identical Sonship:  "Son of God"

(A)  In the Bible, the only individuals who have the title of the "Son of God" are Jesus, Adam and Melchizedek.
Adam:  "the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God." (Luke 3:38)

Melchizedek:  "Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever." (Heb. 7:3)
Jesus:  "The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God." (Mark 1:1)

(B)  The Bible also states that Melchizedek was made in the image or likeness of the Son of God. This could be taken as the image of the son of God (the second in the trinity) or as the image of the begotten son of God, when the Lord took on a fleshly body. But they are one and the same.
Jesus:  "the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor. 4:4)
Jesus:  "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Heb. 5:6)

Definition of "order":  Greek "aphomoioo" (a) A facsimile  (b) An exact copy or exact reproduction  (c) A duplicate

Jesus:  "And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears." (Heb. 7:15)

Definition of "another priest like":  Greek "kata ten homoioteta" (a) in every respect  (b)  after the similitude of  (c) according to the likeness of  (d)  a thing so like another as to be indistinguishable from it.

Identical Order of Priesthood:  Priest of the God Most High of the Order of Melchizedek

(A)  Melchizedek and Jesus have identical priesthoods.
Melchizedek:  "He was priest of God Most High." (Gen 14:18)
Messiah:  "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:4)
Jesus:  "You are a priest forever, in the order [facsimile] of Melchizedek." (Heb. 5:6)
Definition of "facsimile":  (a) an exact copy or exact reproduction  (b) duplicate

(B)  Notice also that Paul has a mystery concerning Jesus and Melchizedek but is reluctant to tell the uninitiated:

"[Jesus] was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek. We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." (Heb. 5:10-14)

(C)  Paul indicates the Priest(s) of order of Melchizedek were to last forever and that the system of priests through the tribe of Levi would eventually come to an end. These men were chosen by God for the office. They would give sacrifice to God which symbolically atoned, or paid for the people's sins. We see this principle at work very early in the story of Job:
"After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite:

"I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has."

So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job's prayer." (Job 42:7-9)

Identical Symbol of Rule:  "King of Righteousness"

(A)  Melchizedek as the King of Righteousness:

"To whom Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation “King of Righteousness“ and after that also King of Salem, which is “King of Peace.” (Heb. 7:2)

(B)  Jesus as the King of Righteousness:

"The days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land." (Jer. 23:5)

(C)  Melchizedek, as the King of Righteousness, fulfilled this scepter promise:

"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his." (Gen. 49:10)

(D)  Jesus, as the King of Righteousness, fulfilled this scepter promise:

"But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom." (Heb. 1:8 )

Identical Right to Rule:  Appointed by God

(A)  Jesus and Melchizedek's priesthoods are similar because they did not depend upon genealogy as the Aaronic priesthood did. The human lineage of Jesus was from Judah - a tribe that Moses did not associate with the priesthood.

"For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests." (Heb. 7:14)

(B)  Jesus Christ is a priest after the order of Melchizedek, not because he came from the right line, but because he comes as one who has indestructible life - the only one who can be an eternal priest! The priesthood of both is a royal priesthood. The priesthood of both is based on personality, not legality. Both are universal priesthoods for Gentile and Jew because the priesthood of Melchizedek was before the Law was given. Melchizedek illustrates an eternal priesthood of which the Jesus is the reality.

Identical Title:  "King of Peace"

(A)  Melchizedek and Jesus are the Kings of Peace.

Melchizedek:  "First, his name means "King of Righteousness"; then also, "King of Salem" means "King of Peace." (Heb. 7:2)

Jesus:  "And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

(B)  Melchizedek is the "King of Peace" and Jesus is the "Prince of Peace". Who could be King of Peace over Jesus?

Identical Term of Priesthood:  Eternal

(A)  Melchizedek and Jesus are eternal priests.
Melchizedek:  "like the Son of God he remains a priest forever." (Heb. 7:3)
Jesus:  "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." (Heb. 5:6)

(B)  Melchizedek and Jesus are priests forever with an unchangeable priesthood. This indicates they are the same priest - just different times.

Identical in Likeness:  Priest

(A)  Melchizedek and Jesus are priests of God.
Melchizedek:  "He was priest of God Most High." (Gen 14:18)

Jesus:  "And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest who has come." (Heb 7:15-16)
The word "likeness" is translated homoios: (a) "after the similitude of"

Note:  Heb. 7:15-16 does not mean Jesus is "similar to Melchizedek." In context, it means "Jesus is Melchizedek."
Proof:  Another Biblical example of "homoios" meaning "likeness."

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." (Phil. 2:6-7)
Point 1:    Jesus was human:  The Word became flesh (John 1:14)
     
Point 2:    

And Jesus had a human nature:  "The gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David." (Rom. 1:2-4)
     
Conclusion:    Jesus was more than just the likeness of Melchizedek.
     
   Jesus was Melchizedek.

(B)  Why would Jesus be compared to Melchizedek if his status was not equal to or greater than Jesus? He certainly would not be compared to anyone lesser than himself. This suggests that both Melchizedek and Jesus were of the same nature and of similar purpose and, therefore, the same person.

Identical Age:  Pre-existent

(A)  Both Melchizedek and Jesus are pre-existent (i.e. they existed before birth).

Melchizedek:  "Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever." (Heb. 7:3)

Jesus:  "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." (Micah 5:2)

Jesus:  "The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water ... Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind." (Prov. 8:22-31)

Identical Association with:  Abraham

(A)  Both Melchizedek and Jesus were both associated with Abraham:

Melchizedek:  "Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abraham, saying, "Blessed be Abraham by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth." (Gen. 14:18-19)

Jesus:  "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.
"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham?"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:56-59)

(B)  Melchizedek and Jesus are one spirit who incarnated many times and who transcended death. They could enter and leave the world at will without having to go through birth and death.

"Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood." (Heb. 7:23)

Identical Use of Ritualistic Symbols:  Bread and Wine

(A)  Melchizedek's offering of bread and wine to Abraham is the first incidence where bread and wine appear in the Scripture. Melchizedek provided a priesthood which gave the symbols of bread and wine. Jesus also provided a priesthood which gave the symbols of bread and wine.

Melchizedek:  "And Melchizedek King of Salem brought forth bread and wine..." (Gen. 14:18)

Jesus:  "While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matt. 26:26-29)

Jesus:  "I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

"Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

"Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." (John 6:48-59)

Identical Title:  Anointed One, the "Messiah"

(A)  Melchizedek is the "anointed one":

Melchizedek:  "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." (Heb. 1:9)

(B)  Jesus is the "anointed one":

Jesus:  "Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against his anointed one." (Acts 4:25-26)

Note:  The word translated "anointed" is the Greek chrio which refers to contact between the one being anointed and the one doing the anointing. The Greek word "Christos", translated "Christ" is derived from "chrio".

Christian Gnostic Scriptures Discovered in 1945 Affirm Melchizedek and Jesus to be Different Incarnations of the Same Soul

On December, 1945, in Upper Egypt, ancient texts revealing that the early Christians and Jews believed that Melchizedek was a previous reincarnation of Jesus the Messiah.

These long lost texts were discovered by an Arab peasant was digging in the ground in search of fertilizer when he discovered large jars containing books which have been buried since around 390 A.D. These books where hidden by monks from a nearby monastery to escape destruction under the order of the emerging orthodox Church in its violent expunging of all heresy. These texts were one of the greatest archeological discovery ever discovered. It was only eclipsed by the Dead Sea Scroll discovery in Israel two years later in 1947. It is a strange coincidence that these ancient discoveries containing valuable information of early Jewish and Christian theology and history should appear around the same time.

This immensely important discovery in Egypt includes a large number of Christian Gnostic scriptures -- texts once thought to have been entirely destroyed. Some of the scriptures discovered were the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Truth.

One of the Christian Gnostic texts discovered is entitled "Melchizedek". The following quote is from this text. [...] indicates missing fragments or illegible wording.

"And you crucified me from the third hour of the Sabbath - eve until the ninth hour. And after these things I arose from the dead. My body came out of the tomb to me. [...] They did not find anyone greeted me [...] They said to me, Be strong, Melchizedek, great High Priest of God Most High"

There is little doubt that this quote attributed to Melchizedek refers to him being crucified and resurrected. Commenting on the above text, noted authority Birger A. Pearson states:

"Furthermore, the tractate's apparent identification of Melchizedek with Jesus Christ ... is also documented elsewhere in early Christianity, particularly in Egypt. We are drawn to the conclusion that, in the revelation which the priest Melchizedek has received, he has seen that he himself will have a redemptive role to play as the suffering, dying, resurrected and triumphant Savior, Jesus Christ! ... From what we read ... it seems that the victory of Jesus Christ is the victory of Melchizedek and that, in fact, they are one and the same."

"I did and do understand the text of the first tractate to imply that Melchizedek was prophesied to return again, as Jesus."

Dead Sea Scroll Discovery of 1947 Revealed the Messiah to be a Reincarnation of Melchizedek

In 1947, scrolls from the Jewish Essenes were discovered which affirmed that they believed Melchizedek would reincarnate as the Messiah.

These ancient scrolls of profound importance were discovered by young Bedouin shepherds, searching for a stray goat around the Dead Sea in Israel entered an undiscovered cave and found jars filled with ancient scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were scrolls from a monastic group known as the Essenes, dated to be about two thousand years old. The Essenes were an apocalyptic Jewish sect who withdrew from society and established a monastery on the shores of the Dead Sea. It is believed that sometime during the Roman-Jewish war of 66-70 A.D. the Essenes hid their sacred writings.

The Essenes believed in the doctrine of pre-existence and reincarnation and appeared to have been influenced by Gnosticism. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Jewish mystical tradition of divine union went back to the first, perhaps even the third, century B.C.

Biblical scholars were not disturbed by what they found in the Dead Sea Scrolls because they had known all along that the origin of Christianity was not what was commonly supposed to have been.

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus stated that the Pharisees were believers in reincarnation. Josephus has several long passages dealing with the reincarnation beliefs of both the Essenes and the Pharisees. Josephus writes that the Jews in their secret or esoteric doctrines called the Kabbalah taught reincarnation openly.

The caves where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found yielded a series of thirteen fragments on Melchizedek which identifies Melchizedek as the one who will carry out the vengeance of God's judgments and the one who delivers the people from the hand of Belial and the spirits of his lot.

The belief that Melchizedek was the Messiah was a strongly held conviction among the Qumran community, as well as among some other Jewish and Gnostic sects in the first century A.D. This becomes apparent in the text entitled "The Last Jubilee" (Dead Sea Scroll: 11Q13, Column 2) about the coming of Melchizedek as the Messiah.

"The Last Jubilee" is a sermon within the "Melchizedek Texts" (also known as "I IQ Melchizedek Text" or " I I Q Melchizedek"). The following is a summary of this sermon:

The Last Jubilee text refers in messianic terms to a future King of Righteousness. In the text, this King of Righteousness is described as passing judgment on Belial [Satan] and his followers. After the judgment in heaven comes the destruction of those who have followed Belial rather than God. The text states that "the one designed, by God's favor, for the King of Righteousness (which is what, by his very name, Melchizedek prefigures) will come into his dominion." The time of his coming "into his dominion" is identified as the period which Isaiah termed the year of favor or "acceptable year of the Lord"

The Biblical reference for this can be found in Isaiah 61:1-2:

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord has anointed me to bring good tidings to the afflicted, he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captive, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn ..." (Isaiah 61:1-2)

Jesus made his first appearance in Nazareth and spoke at the synagogue there, and the book of Isaiah was handed to him. Luke 4:17-19 records that he then found and read the two verses quoted above but stopped after the phrase "acceptable year of the Lord." Bible scholars concluded that by suspending reading without referring to God's day of vengeance, Jesus was distinguishing between his present ministry of grace and the second advent when he would carry out God's judgments. On the other hand, his stopping after that phrase may have been for the purpose of emphasis, for it truly was the "year of the Lord."

After Jesus had concluded his reading, verse 21 adds:

"And he began to say unto them, 'Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.'" (Luke 4:21)

Thus in Luke 4:21, Jesus seems to identify himself as the one promised by Isaiah "to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor" when he said, "Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing." And the Melchizedek Texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls identify Melchizedek as the person who will fulfill that prophecy.

In the text "Commentary on the Book of Habakkuk," the "Teacher of Righteousness" is referred to as one "to whom God has made known all the mysteries of His servants the prophets." This Teacher of Righteousness was expected to return and usher in the Messianic Age and according to Jewish tradition to be Elijah or Phinehas or Melchizedek.

At least one respected Dead Sea Scroll authority stated that Jesus in these documents "appears in many respects as an astonishing reincarnation of the Teacher of Righteousness."

The Qumran "Melchizedek Texts" contain several comments which seem clearly to identify the so-called "King of Righteousness," a title referring to Melchizedek, as the promised Messiah. They discuss the role of this future King in overthrowing Belial and executing God's avenging judgment and clearly state that this King will be "Melchizedek redivivus" (reincarnated). One scholar has summarized the document thusly:

"In this fragment, written in Hebrew, Melchizedek appears as an eschatological savior who has a heritage. His mission is to bring back at the end of days the exiles to announce to them their liberation ... and the expiation of their sins."

Near-Death Experience Revelations of Edgar Cayce Reveals Melchizedek and Jesus to be Different Incarnations of the Same Soul

Edgar Cayce received volumes of information from his near-death experiences from a heavenly so-called "Hall of Records." Much of the revelations he received concerned Jesus and his many incarnations including Adam and Melchizedek. Cayce received these revelations years before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Gnostic find. These discoveries agree with the Cayce revelations concerning Adam, Melchizedek and Jesus.

This parallel between Melchizedek and other incarnations from the ancient Christian Gnostic texts also supports the Cayce revelations that Enoch and Melchizedek were the same spirit. Cayce also provided the interesting revelation that the Dead Sea Essenes grew out of the teachings of Melchizedek as propagated by prophets, such as Elijah, Elisha, and Samuel. Cayce also identified Melchizedek as a previous incarnation of Jesus.

According to Cayce, it was necessary that the very advanced spirit of Melchizedek reincarnate in order to reach Christhood as Jesus. The Cayce revelations show us why the Master spirit again incarnated after the experience as Melchizedek:

The Christ spirit incarnated as Adam, Enoch, Melchizedek, then took on flesh to teach and lead. After several more incarnations such as Joseph (prince of Egypt), the Christ spirit realized it was necessary to set a pattern for humanity and to show the way back to God. Thus, the Master spirit assumed the mission of through his final incarnation as Jesus. By resurrecting his body, he made the Jesus-Melchizedek priesthood eternal.

This priesthood, according to the Encyclopedia Judaica's interpretation of Hebrews, "is excellent, superior to that of Abraham's descent, and transcends all human, imperfect orders."

In view of such evidence found in the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, the Christian Gnostic texts, the Dead Sea Scrolls and extra-Biblical sources such as Cayce, the early Christian veneration of Melchizedek and the rich Messianic tradition about him, Christians should in no way find it demeaning to link the soul of Melchizedek with that of Jesus. Certainly both individuals were important instruments of God, and each life marks an historic step in the spiritual evolution of humanity.
   

"His followers said to him, 'When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?'

"He said to them, 'What you look for has come, but you do not know it.'" - Jesus, the Gospel of Thomas, saying 51
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 02:56:25 AM by Juhani »

Jahn

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 04:59:08 AM »
Adam was first
I was second
and Christ came as third.

I is not me personally but Wodan.

That is history, what is of greater importance is to find ones own true self, the divinity that comes by being a human being and not only a human. So much has got lost since the old days.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 05:01:18 AM by blue feather »

erik

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 05:05:44 AM »
If you were between Adam and Jeshua, then who was Melchizedek?

Jahn

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 05:06:43 AM »
"And he began to say unto them, 'Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.'" (Luke 4:21)

As I read this it is about what is written in the Old Testament, I have no translation but it is about "There will come a root from Jesaja /.../ not a hair on his head will be broken etc.

the Coming Messiah was big business in old Israel at the time, every pharisee knew that "He" was on his way to fulfil the old prophecies.


Jahn

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 05:08:53 AM »
If you were between Adam and Jeshua, then who was Melchizedek?

It is in your qoute - The Son of Seth.

erik

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2008, 05:15:04 AM »
It is in your qoute - The Son of Seth.

That quote is about Jesus - saying whose son he was.

Quote
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke3.htm
23
    When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. He was the son, as was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,
24
    the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25
    the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,
26
    the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27
    the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,
28
    the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29
    the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
30
    the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31
    the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David
32
    the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon,
33
    the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,
34
    the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35
    the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,
36
    the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37
    the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,
38
    the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 02:56:46 AM by Juhani »

Jahn

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 02:38:56 AM »

Some other sources, an excerpt:

"MELCHIZEDEK. I won't rehash the details of my analysis of this passage in "Melchizedek, Michael, and War in Heaven." Suffice to say that the biblical figure Melchizedek has been almost entirely swallowed up by the heavenly figure (who I think is just as original as the earthly one--but that's another paper).

In (11Q ) Melchizedek the hero is an Exalted Patriarch in the strong sense, almost a Principal Angel without reference to any earthly origin. He is also a Future Ideal Figure, namely the Divine Warrior (originally Baal or Marduk in ancient Near Eastern myth, but also Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible). He is not explicitly a priest in the fragments we have, although the tantalizing assertion that the lot of Melchizedek is the Day of Atonement in the tenth Jubilee in which to atone for all the sons of El may refer indirectly to his function as Celestial High Priest (and may also be the only echo of the two biblical passages).

HEBREWS 7. Hebrews is the only work in the New Testament that mentions Melchizedek directly (although see below on Psalm 110 in general) and it is a tantalizingly enigmatic passage. The description of Melchizedek in 7:1-3 include puns on the names Salem and Melchizedek similar to those made by Josephus and Philo, but v. 3 goes far beyond what they say. The key word is resembling" (Greek )

 Melchizedek resembles the Son of God, but it's unclear in what sense this is meant, and the meaning of the word bears very much on the rest of the verse. Is ch. 7 just an allegorical comparison between Melchizedek and Jesus, or is it asserted that Melchizedek actually is a divine mediator--an immortal and preexistent Celestial High Priest? Minimally, I think we can say that the writer is aware of such a tradition and is playing off it, but I find it hard to read the passage as merely allegorical. Both v. 3 and v. 8 seem to assert that Melchizedek lives eternally as a priest. The point of the chapter, of course, is that Jesus is the true Celestial High Priest, which does make it difficult to understand just where the celestial Melchizedek might fit into the writer's theology. Overall it appears that Melchizedek is an Exalted Patriarch (it's unclear whether in the weak or strong sense) who embodies the ideal figure of the Celestial High Priest which is in turn embodied by Jesus. He enacts the Legacy Pattern in the sense that he is of typological significance for the author's understanding of Jesus, and he may also enact the Intervention Pattern. The author shows no interest in eschatological applications of the Melchizedek tradition.

III. JESUS AND MELCHIZEDEK
Although Melchizedek is mentioned only in Hebrews in the New Testament, the frequent used of Psalm 110 (e.g. Mark 14:62; 1 Cor 15:20-25) to describe the postresurrection exaltation of Jesus confirms that the early Christian writers were aware of the Melchizedek tradition at least to some degree. Whether the Melchizedek tradition influenced early christology is open to debate; at least two papers in the upcoming conference on Jesus at St. Andrews will argue that it did. But in any case, there are significant parallels between Melchizedek as divine mediator and Jesus as divine mediator, especially as Future Ideal Figures enacting the Consummation Pattern. Like Melchizedek, Jesus is the Eschatological Divine Warrior (e.g., in Revelation 19 and the Synoptic Apocalypse [Mark 13 // Matthew 24 // Luke 21]). The Gnostic text NHX IX 1, which identified Melchizedek with Jesus, presents him as Divine Warrior and Eschatological High Priest enacting the Consummation Pattern. In addition, in Hebrews, Jesus is the Celestial High Priest enacting the Intervention Pattern. An eschatological hope is present in the epistle (e.g., 2:5; 10:25) but is never tied directly to Jesus' high priestly office.

Finally, like Jesus and Enoch, Melchizedek is called a "god" (Elohim, in his case). There is no certain evidence that he received worship in the Second Temple period, although I have argued for this in the preexilic cult and the presence of devotees of Melchizedek (called "Melchizedekians" by Jerome and Epiphanius) leaves the possibility open.

The Melchizedek tradition holds much promise for illuminating the early worship of Jesus, which no doubt is why three of the papers (by Aschim, Barker, and Hannah) in the upcoming Jesus conference have Melchizedek as a central or major focus.

MELCHIZEDEK AS A DIVINE MEDIATOR
(Summary of a lecture by J. Davila on 10 February, 1998)


You'll find it all at:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_sd/med_melchizedek.html




Offline tommy2

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 02:54:52 AM »
.... a "Jesus conference" with some other thing or person as "the major focus" .....

Now THAT'S mind-boggling for me! 

What/who mediates between me and God?

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 03:03:03 AM »
I talked again to my friend theologian and he did some research since yesterday. He said that in some sources (mostly in apocrypha) it is said that Melchizedek and Jesus were/are High Priests, but there is a significant difference between them. It is asserted that Melchizedek was/is able to guide souls on the other side and actually deal with the beings preying on souls. Jesus lacked/lacks that ability.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 02:57:03 AM by Juhani »

Offline tommy2

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2008, 04:02:55 AM »
I am just learning from my own past life v/s my new life in Christ that thought-faith is altogether different than heart-faith.  Statements like "Jesus lacks (whatever word/s one chooses to put here) ability" once made all the sense in the world to me.  Once.  Everything depended on how one looked at it.  Now such statements do not make sense because they lack authority, an authority I cannot describe yet, nor maybe need not to.  I don't know.  I have much, much work to do and am relying on the Holy Spirit to direct this kind of knowledge to me. 

But, yes there IS "a significant difference between them" (Jesus and this priest) Melchizedak ....

One is God and the other not. 

This is my faith speaking and doesn't have to make sense to me OR you, of course.

Maybe I just don't fit in here anymore, I dunno. 


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Offline Michael

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2008, 09:34:55 PM »
It's all my fault as usual.

I made reference to Melchizedek for your sake Tom.

"A priest forever in the line of Melchizedek." King David so called the Messiah.

You are right - Jesus requires complete and utter devotion. That is how the bhakti method works - there can be no room for mental gymnastics. You must trust to the heart to reach your beloved.

But we can't help but approach Jesus through Christianity, and a usually a sub-sect of that tradition. And those people whom we accept as our guides to Christ, are filled with humanity. Every such group is filled with attitudes which it has acquired along the way, and one special one goes like this - our way is the only way, and every other method is not only wrong, it is evil.

That is why Melchizedek is important. He represents something essential which is too often forgotten. The one-true-way, was alive before Jesus.

Melchizedek is not necessary for the love of Jesus, but he is necessary to resist the temptation to give in to the belief that there is only one way, and all else is of the devil. Melchizedek is the doorway out of religious conceit. Jesus was about love, and universality. Not separation and exclusion.

Love if not inclusive is not love.

As for remaining here. Yes you will have trouble, because this forum is mine, and I am not of the bhakti tradition. I am a methodist - I ascribe to the traditions who use steps, upon which we climb, by our own effort, one by one. That is not the bhakti way. The bhakti way is through the heart - like an arrow of love straight to the heart of Jesus.

But you should know, that methodists are not without heart - it is not an either/or for us, it is a both/and.

I use both methods - the strategist and the lover.

However, my way is to work, to practice, to use the 'insights' to strip away the falsity from our being. It is my belief that very few are capable of pure bhakti - do you really know what true devotion means? Do you know what you must give up? Tom, forgive me, but I suspect you are not ready to give up your country, your parents, your wife and your home for the path of pure devotion - you feel these should all fit well into your devotion. There lies the problem. It doesn't.

My way is to first remove the obstacles, then what is left is the heart. When we throw for the heart first, inevitably we confuse our love with our love. We are weak, and the love of weak people is ultimately for themselves, no matter what they tell themselves. From the heart come milk - do one thing for me on your road, don't follow the dry breast.

You are at a threshold Tom. To cross this you will have to throw everything into the fire. Go for it!

Offline tommy2

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Re: Melchizedek
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 01:46:00 AM »
M, I can't tell you very much about this train or the ride I will take on it.  I would be bullshitting iffen I said I did, of course.  But I do know right this moment, already, that I am putting my heart to avoiding anything that keeps me from enjoying Jesus' love.  And, the bridges that this train ends up crossing cannot be avoided.  I know this in my heart.

Love, tommy
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