Topic: WE'RE STUFFED!!!

[Builder]

Do the rebels have warplanes?

Anyway, to shoot down a plane requires a lot of technique, especially when you have poor weapons.

Oh yes, they do. There have been reports on the rebel air attacks against Gaddafi's warships.

And no, it does not take that much skill to shoot down a jet that flies a straight line with a low speed at a relatively low altitude - thinking that it is safely above its own troops. The whole incident merely shows what a low combat-power,  uncoordinated and shaky bunch  these rebels are.

[Jahn]

This is the end of the beginning of the end of Libya liberty..

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

Sir Winston Churchill comments about the first positive reports from the 2:nd World war toward the Nazis.

[Builder]

This is the end of the beginning of the end of Libya liberty..

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

Sir Winston Churchill comments about the first positive reports from the 2:nd World war toward the Nazis.

The end of what?

[Jahn]

The end of what?

Success (win the civil war)--- sorry to some left out words there 

But it was quite a valid statement:

This is the end of the beginning (NATO is on the move)
of the end of Libya liberty.  [Understood as the end of the civil right movements efforts to free Libya].

[Builder]

Success (win the civil war)--- sorry to some left out words there 

And what about these Libyans who fight on Gaddafi's side and support him? There are many of them.

[Jahn]

And what about these Libyans who fight on Gaddafi's side and support him? There are many of them.

Is it, how many are we talking about?

[Builder]

Is it, how many are we talking about?

40-50% of population.
Background information

[Angela]

Baba, you will recall, posted a comedy YT to which I responded with some equivocation.

Where is this?

[Nichi]

Where is this?

It's here, but ... some of the discussion appears to be missing.  (?) Way too late to track it now.
http://restlesssoma.com.au/soma/index.php?topic=4708.msg33091#msg33091

[Michael]

Well I am hopeful this is the end of the beginning for Libya, and the beginning of the next phase which is not necessarily pleasant. I don't believe it is too late, and I also hope that many will now switch sides, knowing the world is pushing against Qaddafi.

I have heard that even Qaddafi's own tribe had turned against him, but very few want to be on the losing side, especially if Qaddafi is winning - he will simply murder all malcontents as he has done always.

But the point now, is how strong Qaddafi's forces are without their high-powered weapons. They still have discipline, and at present there is no sign of side-switching, although that is perhaps too early. I think there will be many now sitting and wondering what will happen. Qaddafi is not loved by anyone, but supported by many who have a vested interest.

[Builder]

...will certainly not be beautiful and there will be fratricide. When neighbours turn on each other, it is inevitable.

Some questions to ask and ponder

[Michael]

Thanks Juhani - good link.

Odd that he called the freedom side 'insurgents'.

[Builder]

Egypt's worst fears...materialising?
Egypt's worst fears...materialising?

[Michael]

Egypt's worst fears...materialising?
Egypt's worst fears...materialising?

Thanks Juhani. This is curious to watch, as despite it's Egyptian context, what happens in Egypt has huge influence upon the whole Muslim world.

What is torturous for Western eyes is that a Democratic movement must include all aspects of a culture, and Islam is as critical to Democracy in the Middle East as Christianity is to Democracy in the US.

But how is this going to play out? That is the big question, and Egypt is the current precedent for the whole region. Very curious to watch. But know also that the Egyptian military, along with the Islamic groups, has also been very close to the US. Politics.

PS... I find myself rolling my eyes at the world and my fellow humans - perhaps more so as we are now in our local State elections. To be honest, I seem to watch a world heading for the falls in a ship run by cripples and criminals. Where are the healthy souls? In Dion Fortune's book, she postulates that our view of the Middle Ages pogroms against witches was not all misguided. She maintains that much is happening today that will damage the soul of our species evolution, and a similar line-holding may be required. Alas, there are none to recognise the dangers to the soul. We are heading for the falls. Perhaps, some wisdom beyond my ken has things in hand ... perhaps.

[Michael]

All hell has broken lose in the Middle East - one country after another. I can't keep track, because demonstrations happen in towns I have never heard of, and then only get front-line press when many are killed.

Pretty obvious Q is finished in Libya - we are just watching the gory end there.

As for what will come out of all this - it's anyone's guess.

And now there seems another disaster in the Japanese rectors.