Topic: For the Love

[Firestarter]

Another thing I am thankful for - that Adi da died on Thanksgiving Day.

Thank you, for taking his ass off to wherever. I am thankful.

[daphne]

For me, DJ said  it as well as could be said...(not withstanding that Carlos may have been a pimp!  heh)  and that is in the piece about  the 4 enemies. It appears that the 3rd really sucks!

[Firestarter]

For me, DJ said  it as well as could be said...(not withstanding that Carlos may have been a pimp!  heh)  and that is in the piece about  the 4 enemies. It appears that the 3rd really sucks!

Yes it can! But also one good thing about the whole adi da deal, he did have a heart attack so all the sex and drugs and drinking finally worked him over - too much sex can wear ya out! Good riddance!

Here's the third enemy and good reminder from DJ:

But he has also come across his third enemy: Power!


Power is the strongest of all enemies. And naturally the easiest thing to do is to give in; after all, the man is truly invincible. He commands; he begins by taking calculated risks, and ends in making rules, because he is a master. A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man, but he will never lose his clarity or his power. A man who is defeated by power dies without really knowing how to handle it. Power is only a burden upon his fate. Such a! man has no command over himself, and cannot tell when or how to use his power. Once one of these enemies overpowers a man there is nothing he can do. It is not possible, for instance, that a man who is defeated by power may see his error and mend his ways. Once a man gives in he is through. If, however, he is temporarily blinded by power, and then refuses it, his battle is still on. That means he is still trying to become a man of knowledge. A man is defeated only when he no longer tries, and abandons himself. He has to come to realize that the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He must keep himself in line at all times, handling carefully and faithfully all that he has learned. If he can see that clarity and power, without his control over himself, are worse than mistakes, he will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power.

[tangerine dream]

For me, DJ said  it as well as could be said...(not withstanding that Carlos may have been a pimp!  heh)  and that is in the piece about  the 4 enemies. It appears that the 3rd really sucks!

LOL
 

Pimpy C (that's his street name)
or Pimp Dog Carlito

[Jahn]

"A beautiful flower that has no scent
are like words of love without any action."


Talk is cheap. I can talk about love till the cows comes home but if I at the same time delude and/or seduce people that are attracted to me then I am not useful to my self and of very little use to others unless their highest desire is to get deluded.

Talking about love and peace and then behave like a immature schoolboy is like shortcircuit self. Not only that I contradict my self but I go against my self. My lovely words in such situation means nothing compared to my fraudful actions. One can be a bully with words too and most poision between people comes over the tongue. But to tell somebody off and beat him at the same time is kind of in the same direction, not contradictory.

When we go to the grocery, do we pick the rotten tomatoes or the not so fresh lettuce? Certainly not, they tell us that best before date has expired, instead we pick up the vegetables and fruits that look better. When choosing company we can be rather tuned in too. It is not that we judge tomatoes or people per se, it is more that we choose what radio station we want to listening to or what we want to eat.

Snuff is snuff, if so even in a golden box.

[Jahn]

Even if we allow, for the sake of argument, that these gurus have actually gone through some kind of change in consciousness that they are labeling as enlightenment, is this something we would want to aspire to?  Do we really want to become more like Adi Da or a Chogyam Trungpa, in some fundamental respect?  Is it really worth a lifetime of “spiritual practice” to try and end up where they are?  In my view, that’s like devoting one’s life to the attempt to catch a serious disease.

These guys are egotistical, power-hungry people with serious character flaws who just happen to have been articulate spokesmen for a particular brand of spiritual philosophy.  Good salesmen?  Yes.  Exemplary human beings, worthy of veneration, enlightened masters you should turn your life over to?  Not in my book.

The most arrogant gurus (like Adi Da) are selling the belief that they continuously operate from an extraordinary perspective that allows them to transcend the illusions that bind the rest of us. 

/.../

While the seeker is still distracted in his pursuit of awakening, however, and the guru has been elevated to a status where his behavior is above question, the door is open for the guru to exploit the seeker as he sees fit. And that’s exactly what Adi Da and Trungpa have done, regardless of what it is they originally set out to do. Their interests in spirituality, coupled with a desire for power, evolved into careers for them that didn’t look much different from sophisticated “con” schemes – although they dressed themselves up in the language and imagery of eastern spirituality and pop psychology. New age wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[Firestarter]

Good post and good analogy per the shopping too.

Very true - talk is cheap. And also bullshit detectors come in very handy on the path. OM.

"A beautiful flower that has no scent
are like words of love without any action."


Talk is cheap. I can talk about love till the cows comes home but if I at the same time delude and/or seduce people that are attracted to me then I am not useful to my self and of very little use to others unless their highest desire is to get deluded.

Talking about love and peace and then behave like a immature schoolboy is like shortcircuit self. Not only that I contradict my self but I go against my self. My lovely words in such situation means nothing compared to my fraudful actions. One can be a bully with words too and most poision between people comes over the tongue. But to tell somebody off and beat him at the same time is kind of in the same direction, not contradictory.

When we go to the grocery, do we pick the rotten tomatoes or the not so fresh lettuce? Certainly not, they tell us that best before date has expired, instead we pick up the vegetables and fruits that look better. When choosing company we can be rather tuned in too. It is not that we judge tomatoes or people per se, it is more that we choose what radio station we want to listening to or what we want to eat.

Snuff is snuff if, so even in a golden box.

[Jahn]

Good post and good analogy per the shopping too.

Very true - talk is cheap. And also bullshit detectors come in very handy on the path. OM.

I liked metaphor with "New Age Wolves".

I saw the flaw as early as in the late 1970's. Osho is mentioned among the fraud gurus and he had this Bagwhan Sri Rajneesh cult in the US that even hit Sweden with their dancing message. Many musicians was attracted to them and they came out very programmed. One young and lovely, very famous artist here lost his life more or less when the red Bhagwan cult was dissipated, he came into a severe depression and never really got out of it - so some ten years later he ended his life before a train in the Stockholm underground. Not blaming the cult for that, but only mention that they played with peoples trust and faith and well being while they could not remain the standard or the structure as they vanished.

People that join such cults are often vulnerable in the category  "give away my power" type of people, and when the pupil gets out in the cold, and the leader goes to jail or flee to the mountain, depression and psychiatric illness might easily take them. It is like an unhealthy relationship that get to the bottom when it is over.

[Firestarter]

I liked metaphor with "New Age Wolves".

I saw the flaw as early as in the late 1970's. Osho is mentioned among the fraud gurus and he had this Bagwhan Sri Rajneesh cult in the US that even hit Sweden with their dancing message. Many musicians was attracted to them and they came out very programmed. One young and lovely, very famous artist here lost his life more or less when the red Bhagwan cult was dissipated, he came into a severe depression and never really got out of it - so some ten years later he ended his life before a train in the Stockholm underground. Not blaming the cult for that, but only mention that they played with peoples trust and faith and well being while they could not remain the standard or the structure as they vanished.

People that join such cults are often vulnerable in the category  "give away my power" type of people, and when the pupil gets out in the cold, and the leader goes to jail or flee to the mountain, depression and psychiatric illness might easily take them. It is like an unhealthy relationship that get to the bottom when it is over.

Yeah and it was a shame that he became all that. Osho really got messed up. I was gleaning some things written yesterday cause been a long time since I looked at Osho/Sheela, which is what I call it, cause once she came in the picture, I would say this more fueled the 'shadow side' of Osho. And even his last three books written by him while he was on nitrous oxide, which some debate that, but looking how crazy Osho got toward the end, in all likelihood, true. Im surprised Sheela didnt do more time for all the attempted murder shit she did.

But in a way, whilst much of the really bad decisions were by Sheela, did Sheela possibly represent some destructive components of Osho muddying the waters of his own Shakti, like she became it? Really begs the question. How much was Osho accountable? I think like shakti, can mutate in the form of a dragon, really on any yogi and overpower, perhaps she represented an outer example of this, and this is why such harm occured with other folks, and it could still be occuring now, even with him gone.

Its an inner/outer consideration, definitely.

But one of the things I was thinking of, per power and the source, impeccability - the thought 'take only what you need,' is really criticial. Like osho kept pushing the buck on meditation. Is there a too-far per the techniques? I mean, how far do we really 'need' to go per meditation, and what is just plain necessary and simple? We are human afterall, and perhaps just taking only what we need is enough.

Thing is, if certain yogis, masters, folks whatever, get a big high on the power, say like adi da, they'll take way more than they need, so they can overpower others with that power. And then, what are the results? Do these power-junkies ever learn from the fall of so many others?

While say a leader/teacher in whatever form, can be a source of power (but mainly if done well, to aid others to find their own reserves), and some can aid, really, taking power 'over' others, vs power to be able to aid others to find their own, use it impeccably and well, and also only aid others who are ready and able, so they wont abuse others with it (another tricky part - hence why many mysteries remain as such), thats the other critical thing too, and why you dont see many folks being enlightened in droves necessarily. Cause if they become it, they may indulge in it, and abuse many others with it, and the damage which can occur can really bastardize things, steer folks away. yet still, not all can do it themselves, so teachers have value. But when you have frauds and folks who say may have been authentic but abused their power, which is really source power, then this really can cause more delays for others who, really are searching earnestly for their own liberation.

Just some thoughts.