Topic: Are you ready?

[Quantum Shaman]

See another thing I wonder, are Death and the Double synonymous?

Aha... now that's an interesting question, isn't it?  It's something I've pondered over the years, and have concluded based on many conversations with Orlando that the double is the revolving door into and out of death.  But that's a much more complicated topic than I have time for right now, though I'd love to delve deeper into it another day. 

[tangerine dream]

Anything that seeks to essentially obliterate awareness is hardly what I would call a friend

Obliterate awareness....

Interesting concept.

Hmmm.....

[Michael]

To 'befriend' death, is not an accurate term.

It can be used poetically, especially to give a distinction from the fear of death, but then it is used like a climber of Everest says she has befriended Everest. Obviously this is no ordinary friendship. A friend in the sense as someone would say, "Hello death, my old friend." It has an element of irony.

More accurate would be DJ's reference that death sits with him on the mat. Meaning that death is no stranger, and that it sits at his side lending him clarity in all that he does. Thus you could say death has been a friend in that it has bestowed wisdom, but death could never be termed a friend in the normal use of that word.

[Michael]

Rage rage against the dying of the light...

"Do not go gently into that dark night"

I am not so sure about this approach.
Many years ago when I first heard this poem, I was shaking myself out of the common lethargy, so these words resonated very strongly with me.

But once I adopted a life of death-awareness, I have changed my stance. The part I retain from these sentiments is the idea of not allowing myself to be lulled into false security - to be ready to fight at all costs against the enchantment of accepting death as just an inevitable event sometime between fifty and ninety.

But I also know that at times when I am confronted by death in situations that happen quickly and I have no control - like when a passenger in a car that is spinning out of control - my body relaxes and I 'collect' myself without a trace of rage. I go very calm and secretly excited.

It is important to know when to fight death, and when to stop resisting, to open out with eyes wide - to give oneself to death without surrendering. Words fail.

I feel I have dropped the rage, yet I make myself a very difficult target, with determination and attitude. I suppose you could say I fight death tooth and nail with intelligence, seriousness and cold blood.

Those who I see 'rage', ie with emotion, tend to be all puff and bluster - emotion can't sustain for this task. I am always suspect of people who make a huge fuss emotionally - I have come to realise they are never around when the real work needs doing.

[Quantum Shaman]

Obliterate awareness....

Interesting concept.

Hmmm.....

That IS the function of the eagle, isn't it?  It devours awareness and essentially redistributes our component parts back to the drawing board to be used again.  The universal recycling bin.

[Quantum Shaman]

But I also know that at times when I am confronted by death in situations that happen quickly and I have no control - like when a passenger in a car that is spinning out of control - my body relaxes and I 'collect' myself without a trace of rage. I go very calm and secretly excited.

Indeed.  This accurately describes my experience as well these days, as well as a lot of other things you said below.  When I talk about "raging" against death, it is an "intellectual" or stalker's rage - not the emotional bruhaha that only drags one into a state of helpless lack of control.  I rage against death in the same way I would rage against any injustice which we are asked to blindly accept without questioning. 

This raises the question:  "Oh my god, does Della think Death is an injustice?"  You betcha I do!  Reason being... I think that is quite probably the reaction we need to have in order to wage our strategy for slipping past the eagle, or whatever anyone cares to call it.

Dying.

The razor's edge between awareness and oblivion.

As I see it, it has taken me about 10 billion years to become who/what I am.  10 billion years of a cycling of molecules, a mixing of cells, a dance of sperm and egg.  And, having achieved "awareness," it is not something I intend to "surrender" just because certain religions or schools of thought try to tell us we will live again, or it's a "natural" cycle, or whatever the platitude-du-jour may be.  *heh*  That's another aspect of what I mean when I say death itself may be yet another program (the biggest one of all) put onto us since long before we were born.  The moment we accept ANY definition or explanation that is not wholly our own is the minute we succumb to the program, even if it doesn't play out for years to come.  We place our "expectations" (the sum total of our other programming) onto some idea of death... and we move toward that "inevitability", whether it actually is inevitable or not.  And, in doing so, we fall into the lethal trap of creating our own reality.

It is important to know when to fight death, and when to stop resisting, to open out with eyes wide - to give oneself to death without surrendering. Words fail.

Yup - I wholly agree.  I would say for my own personal mindset, however, that the only time this will occur is when the semi has crashed through the windshield at 90 mph or the piano from that second floor window has actually crushed my skull.  *heh*  Until we are dead, we are still alive.  And as long as I'm alive, it is my choice (made with total awareness) to take the approach that death is a tulpa I have created to stalk me, just as I stalk myself with his input.  A dark and dangerous tango forever spinning at the crack between the worlds. 

Now, this brings me back to what Ellen said about death and the double perhaps being the same.  There's certainly an element of truth in that, particularly if we have set it up that way.  The double may serve as the seducer - the lover who comes to us at our last breath and says, simply, "Let go.  I've been here all along."  And in letting go, we shift our awareness from the mortal self into the eternal double... death and life, all at the same time.  We would go willingly to our lover, without fear, and that, to me, is one of the most crucial roles the double plays in the process of our evolution.

I feel I have dropped the rage, yet I make myself a very difficult target, with determination and attitude. I suppose you could say I fight death tooth and nail with intelligence, seriousness and cold blood.

Indeed.  My approach as well.  Better watch out, Michael.  *heh*  You say you're a dreamer, but that ruthlessness you're describing is the backbone of a master stalker.   

Great discussion! 

[Nichi]

Are you ready to die?

I heard a line when I rewatched "The Seventh Seal" a couple of weeks ago which got me to re-evaluate my own 'readiness' to die.

Death asks the Knight, "Are you prepared?"
The Knight answers, "My flesh isn't. But I am."

I'd concur, my flesh isn't ready: it loves the warmth of a cat in my lap, the wind, sunshine, the sounds of birds, the beauty of flowers, the mischief of blue jays, the antics of hummingbirds "too" much.

Before I came to California this last trip, I might have glibly answered that I, like the Knight, am ready to die spiritually. But I am now not so sure, at all.

So I don't have an answer to this question.

[Nichi]

So I don't have an answer to this question.

Addendum: except to say that in some sense, I died a long time ago. All of these wonderful experiences (cats, birds, wind, etc.) have been gravy, so to speak.

Additionally, I'm in the last few days of my time here in California. It's 99% a realistic possibility that I'll never be back.  Every hour of this awareness is a torturous hand down my throat, reaching into my heart. The things we find ourselves attached to, after all -- for all my bravado that I was separate.

Saying good-bye for real, especially to the things here (on the earth) which bring such joy and love, is the hardest thing, I now find, in a way I never knew before. And I've had plenty of deaths before in my life.  It's all so predictable, eh? I'll end up shaking off this maya tomorrow, but I'm just as human as I ever was, it seems to me today.

So no, I am probably not ready to die.

[tangerine dream]

That IS the function of the eagle, isn't it?  It devours awareness and essentially redistributes our component parts back to the drawing board to be used again.  The universal recycling bin.

Yes, they say that is the function of the Eagle to devour awareness, however I don't know that our awareness would be obliterated upon Death,  just metamorphosed. 

Still,  I thought we were speaking of "Death", not the "Eagle".  (I do not see them as the synonymous).
Hence my comments about Death *obliterating awareness* being an interesting concept.  I do not quite see that way.     so it is interesting to me to try and fathom.

Meaning that death is no stranger, and that it sits at his side lending him clarity in all that he does. Thus you could say death has been a friend in that it has bestowed wisdom, but death could never be termed a friend in the normal use of that word.

This feels right to me, too.

[Firestarter]

There's the movie that the title escapes me, but its from Bruce Lee's script The Silent Flute, "Death, come anytime, welcome guest." Ive said that before to death, in my own way, I will still fight death cause im not ready to die, but at the same time something about making death into a loosely held friend is sobering.

I think thats what DJ intended, like all those Lamas who speak of death and how nothing can be known unless they understand death. Churches, for example, dont deal with death except for at funerals, but they mainly speak of eternal life and how its a guarantee. But with no work? No work on being impeccable? Losing self importance, shedding the human form? I think we have to do those things, and of course, gain awareness, so we have awareness to be able to find our opening upon death to slip past the eagle.

Really, we have to be working on our opening right now, in the here and now. That takes work. That can only be done with work.

Btw, I still kinda like rage rage against the dying of the light. It sounds good to me, so dunno, lol.

[Quantum Shaman]

Yes, they say that is the function of the Eagle to devour awareness, however I don't know that our awareness would be obliterated upon Death,  just metamorphosed. 

Out of curiosity, what kind of metamorphosis are you envisioning?  And upon what would you base your conclusion?  Not trying to be argumentative - hope you won't take it that way.  When I hear people say death is "just a transition", I am always curious as to what they are envisioning, and why.  Many times, I think we tell ourselves comforting stories because we truly don't know.  None of us can really know, after all, so death is like the big drop at the end of the world, where all that remains is a huge question mark.  And, as humans are wont to do, we may tend to make up stories to fill in that frightening void.  

The hope would be that in weaving our tales of hope/belief, we MIGHT empower ourselves to become more than "nature" intended for us - i.e., instead of just dropping off the cliff into the maw of The Big Nothing, MAYBE we can weave energetic webs for ourselves so that we CREATE our metamorphosis through the Will-ful manifestation of quantum energy.  Reason I say this is that I don't personally *see* or believe that any sort of "transformation" or "metamorphosis" is in any manner guaranteed.  Others would say that our "spirit" lives on regardless of what we do or don't do in life, but that's where I part company with most traditional schools of thought.  My personal experience & research has more or less proven (to me anyway) that WE are the source.  Us.  Fragile human mortals.  And the only "guardian angels" or "spirit" we have is that which we nurture for ourselves in the form of our double and our infinite possibility.

Of course, I wholly acknowledge that this is not a popular idea, and also wholly understand that no one else on the planet may agree with me.  And that's okay, too.  No consensus required.    If I'm wrong, I'll crash & burn alone - which is why I always try to hammer home the notion that each person has to form their own consensus of One.  I always used to start my workshops with the statement:  "Don't follow me because I don't know where you want to go."  Heh.

Still,  I thought we were speaking of "Death", not the "Eagle".  (I do not see them as the synonymous).
Hence my comments about Death *obliterating awareness* being an interesting concept.  I do not quite see that way.     so it is interesting to me to try and fathom.

I do see death and the eagle as somewhat synonymous - sure, I suppose we could try and separate them, but ultimately one leads to the other and so it's like trying to separate rain water from the ocean.  Once they have met, there is no undoing them into their separate states.  

I think the main point here is that death and/or the eagle obliterates our awareness if we have not taken sufficient steps to "evolve" beyond that inevitability.  That, to me, is the core definition of what "evolution" is all about - amassing sufficient cohesion of awareness to withstand/evade the effects of the eagle, and the "shock" of death.  The double appears to be the most promising possibility within that realm of infinite possibility.

[tangerine dream]

I  think thats what DJ intended, like all those Lamas who speak of death and how nothing can be known unless they understand death. Churches, for example, dont deal with death except for at funerals, but they mainly speak of eternal life and how its a guarantee. But with no work? No work on being impeccable? Losing self importance, shedding the human form? I think we have to do those things, and of course, gain awareness, so we have awareness to be able to find our opening upon death to slip past the eagle.

Good points El.

[tangerine dream]

I didn't say "death is just a transition'  so I hope I am not one of the people you are speaking of.  My point was that I don't see any 'obliteration of awareness"  occurring. To me that is not possible.   Awareness IS, always. 


I'm not scared of Death.  I've met Death on a few ocasions and obviously lived to tell.   And also use death as an advisor and know there's nothing to be afraid of, so I am not basing my viewpoints on fear.  (Not saying I am ready to go right now, because sure there are a few things I'd still like to do...)   


It's just the way I see, Della.

Just how I see.

[Firestarter]

We have to remember too that we've already met death, and are already 'dead.' Now, what that means may be in the eye of the beholder, but:

"A warrior considers himself already dead, so there is nothing to lose. The worst has already happened to him, therefore he's clear and calm; judging him by his acts or by his words, one would never suspect that he has witnessed everything."

I suppose when looking in the here and now, I can say no matter what has been undertaken, we can all say there is something we've experienced that is the worst that has already happened. We already met death, died, and now, we're alive, but in another different, unusual way. Now, not all in here may say their warriors, some may be men or women of knowledge, or just say 'naguals' or dreamers or stalkers. I say for myself 'warrior' cause I feel I fit the paradigm of that. I also employ those techniques in my life.

Like today was sitting on the porch, im off the next two days and have my two visits with the kids. Death, sitting in the left chair, reminded me in my frustration of visits and with sis's ignorance, if I were physically dead I couldnt interact with them at all. That jolted me enought to say, 'hey, perhaps these visits are a blessing,' they're not some curse. And its just a temporary thing I have to go thru til I get my clean bill of health. Plus I got a new case manager who has more experience in court, and helping people get their kids back, so I already see my unbending intent, manifesting in various ways. Its now just a matter of keeping my center, and not allowing my sis or her crap, sway me to and fro anymore. Keep my visits solid, and just have fun with the kids.

So death is a good adviser like that. "What if you couldnt see them at all?" Good enough question for me to ponder. Things could be so much worse, and death does remind us, things could be worse, we got 'time' for however long, if we're still kicking and breathing.

[Firestarter]

What about this:

Death may be the greatest of all human blessings.  ~Socrates

Agree or disagree?