Topic: Chuang Tzu

[Nichi]

Chuang Tzu is believed to lived in the Fourth or Third Century BCE, at a time when China was split up into a number of states weakly held together by the Chou dynasty. He was a minor government official for a while and was offered higher office, but declined on the grounds that it would limit his freedom.

    His thought is contained in the 33 chapters that remain of the Chuang Tzu, which describes both his philosophy and his way of life. In it, Chuang Tzu enlarges on the teachings of Lao Tzu in a lively Taoist discourse that opposes the ideas of Confucius and Mo Tzu. These philosophers argued for particular ways for improving the condition of man, each contradicting the other. Chuang Tzu argued that the processes of nature unify all things, so that humanity should seek to live at one with nature and not impose upon it. He concluded that one could do more by doing nothing.

    Chuang Tzu viewed nature as having great spontaneity and change, with all things—large and small, beautiful and ugly—equally important and ever in a constant flux. In this way, he enlarged the notion of the co-dependence of things, one causing change in another, which appears in Buddha’s thought. Chuang Tzu also emphasized the mutual causation of opposites: for example, that life leads to death. His dislike of formal structures lead him to put forward his ideas in imaginary dialogues.
http://www.humanistictexts.org/chuang.htm



Chuang Tzu: The Next Voice
Refinement of Energy and Perfection of Spirit. 

Chuang Tzu (399 - 295 B.C.) has always been an influential Chinese philosopher. His writing is at once transcendental while at the same time being deeply immersed within everyday life. He is at peace while at the same time moving through the world. There is a deep vein of mysticism within him which is illuminated by his very rational nature. His style of writing with its parables and conversations both accessible while at the same time pointing to deeper issues.

Chuang Tzu took the Taoist position of Lao Tzu and developed it further. He took Lao Tzu's mystical leanings and perspectives and made them transcendental. His understanding of virtue (te) as Tao individualized in the nature of things is much more developed and clearly stated. There is also a greater and more exact attention to Nature and the human place within it which also leads to his greater emphasis on the individual.

A very interesting and new notion which he brought into Chinese philosophy is that of self-transformation as a central precept in the Taoist process (an understanding that has also penetrated to the heart of Tai Chi Chuan). He believed in life as dynamic and ever changing, making him akin to both Heraclitus and Hegel in these regards. In general, our contemporary understanding of Taoist philosophy is deeply predicated on a very thorough intermingling of the ideas of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu.

Chuang Tzu believed that life is transitory and that the pursuit of wealth and personal aggrandizement were vain follies, which distracted from seeing and understanding the world and contemplating its meaning. He strove to see nature with new eyes. For instance:

"Do the heaven's revolve? Does the earth stand still? Do the sun and the moon contend for their positions? Who has the time to keep them all moving? Is there some mechanical device that keeps them going automatically? Or do they merely continue to revolve, inevitably, of their own inertia?
"Do the clouds make rain? Or is it the rain that makes the clouds? What makes it descend so copiously? Who is it that has the leisure to devote himself, with such abandoned glee, to making these things happen?"


Chuang Tzu felt it was imperative that we transcend all the dualities of existence. Seeing Nature at work and the way in which it reconciled these polar opposites pointed the way to the Tao where all dualities are resolved into unity.

"The universe is the unity of all things. If one recognizes his identity with this unity, then the parts of his body mean no more to him than so much dirt, and death and life, end and beginning, disturb his tranquillity no more than the succession of day and night."

And:
"The sage has the sun and the moon by his side. He grasps the universe under his arm. He blends everything into a harmonious whole, casts aside whatever is confused or obscured, and regards the humble as honorable. While the multitude toil, he seems to be stupid and non-discriminative. He blends the disparities of ten thousand years into one complete purity. All things are blended like this and mutually involve each other."

As to the nature of the Tao itself Chuang Tzu's conception was remarkably similar to that of Lao Tzu.
"Tao has reality and evidence but no action or physical form. It may be transmitted but cannot be received. It may be obtained but cannot be seen. It is based in itself, rooted in itself. Before Heaven and Earth came into being, Tao existed by itself for all time. It gave spirits and rulers their spiritual powers. It created Heaven and Earth. It is above the zenith but is not high. It is beneath the nadir but is not low. It is prior to Heaven and Earth but is not old. It is more ancient than the highest antiquity but is not regarded as long ago.'

One of Chuang Tzu's continuing interests was the issue of the interchangibility of appearance and reality. He sometimes asks (almost in a Cartesian way), 'How can we be sure of what we are seeing?

"Those who dream of the banquet may weep the next morning, and those who dream of weeping may go out to hunt after dawn. When we dream we do not know that we are dreaming. In our dreams we may even interpret our dreams. Only after we are awake do we know that we have dreamed. But there comes a great awakening, and then we know that life is a great dream. But the stupid think they are awake all the time and believe they know it distinctly.

"Once I, Chuang Tzu, dreamed I was a butterfly and was happy as a butterfly. I was conscious that I was quite pleased with myself, but I did not know that I was Tzu. Suddenly I awoke, and there was I, visibly Tzu. I do not know whether it was Tzu dreaming that he was a butterfly or the butterfly dreaming that he was Tzu. Between Tzu and the butterfly there must be some distinction. [But one may be the other.] This is called the transformation of things."
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/chuang.html




The Need to Win

When an archer is shooting for nothing
He has all his skill.
If he shoots for a brass buckle,
He is already nervous.
If he shoots for a prize of gold
He goes blind
Or sees two targets -
He is out of his mind!

His skill has not changed. But the prize
Divides him. He cares.
He thinks more of winning
Than of shooting -
And even the need to win
Drains him of power.


(chuang tzu/ merton)

[Firestarter]

His skill has not changed. But the prize
Divides him. He cares.
He thinks more of winning
Than of shooting -
And even the need to win
Drains him of power.

True

[erik]

So it is not about rightness of wrongness of 'winning', but about the ability to stay focused on 'winning' and on putting arrows into the bullseye?

Many justify their inability to stay focused on 'winning' and giving up their pursuits by 'wrongness' of 'winning' as it gives rise to 'wrong caring' in them.

Not easy to keep the eyes wide open, see the prize and keep it all together.

Practicing such winning leads eventually to the place where focus on putting the arrow into the bullseye clears the mind of everything else.

Then the 'winning' comes without 'caring'.

Eventually there will be no 'need' to put an arrow into the bullseye either - quite like in the 'Book of Void' by Miyamoto Musashi.

Yet there's no shortcut - avoiding competitions does not remove the desire.

[Nichi]

Borrowing from the Sufis in this Taoist thread, because Juhani's post got me to thinking of it.

The Fair was in full swing, and Nasrudin's senior disciple asked whether he and his fellow-students might be allowed to visit it. "Certainly," said Nasrudin; "for this is an ideal opportunity to continue practical teaching."

The Mulla headed straight for the shooting-gallery, one of the great attractions: for large prizes were offered for even one bull's-eye.

At the appearance of the Mulla and his flock the townsfolk gathered around. When Nasrudin himself took up the bow and three arrows, tension mounted. Here, surely, it would be demonstrated that Nasrudin sometimes overreached himself...

"Study me attentively." The Mulla flexed the bow, tilted his cap to the back of his head like a soldier, took careful aim and fired. The arrow went very wide of the mark.

There was a roar of derision from the crowd, and Nasrudin's pupils stirred uneasily, muttering to one another. The Mulla turned and faced them all. "Silence! This was a demonstration of how the soldier shoots. He is often wide of the mark. That is why he loses wars. At the moment when I fired I was identified with a soldier. I said to myself, 'I am a soldier, firing at the enemy.'"

He picked up the second arrow, slipped it into the bow and tweaked the string. The arrow fell short, halfway towards the target. There was dead silence.

"Now," said Nasrudin to the company, "you have seen the shot of a man who was too eager to shoot, yet who, having failed at his first shot, was too nervous to concentrate. The arrow fell short."

Even the stallholder was fascinated by these explantions. The Mulla turned nonchalantly towards the target, aimed and let his arrow fly. It hit the very centre of the bull's-eye.

Very deliberately he surveyed the prizes, picked the one which he liked best, and started to walk away. A clamour broke out.

"Silence!" said Nasrudin. "Let one of you ask me what you all seem to want to know."

For a moment nobody spoke. Then a yokel shuffled forward. "We want to know which of you fired the third shot."

"That? Oh, that was me."



Winning = acquisition of____?the contrived prize (gold and such)? meat for the table? bragging rights? pride? the subordination of others? ____ ? What is winning?

Nasruddin gives demonstrations of energetic stances...

To get to the place where one could but nonchalantly, as if it is second nature, get the bullseye would take much practice indeed, to hone those skills. Is it possible that the real "acquisition" is to become one with the target? And having done so, one then moves on. It is no longer a desire -- rather, it becomes part of the self, to be disposed of along with all else of one's personal history.
Perhaps. 

[erik]

That's how the samurai of all times saw his path:

The Book of the Void

The Ni To Ichi Way of strategy is recorded in this the Book of the Void.

What is called the spirit of the void is where there is nothing. It is not included in man's knowledge. Of course the void is nothingness. By knowing things that exist, you can know that which does not exist. That is the void.

People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment.

In the Way of strategy, also, those who study as warriors think that whatever they cannot understand in their craft is the void. This is not the true void.

To attain the Way of strategy as a warrior you must study fully other martial arts and not deviate even a little from the Way of the warrior. With your spirit settled, accumulate practice day by day, and hour by hour. Polish the twofold spirit heart and mind, and sharpen the twofold gaze perception and sight. When your spirit is not in the least clouded, when the clouds of bewilderment clear away, there is the true void.

Until you realise the true Way, whether in Buddhism or in common sense, you may think that things are correct and in order. However, if we look at things objectively, from the viewpoint of laws of the world, we see various doctrines departing from the true Way. Know well this spirit, and with forthrightness as the foundation and the true spirit as the Way. Enact strategy broadly, correctly and openly.

Then you will come to think of things in a wide sense and, taking the void as the Way, you will see the Way as void.

In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness.


Twelfth day of the fifth month, second year of Shoho (1645)

Teruo Magonojo for SHINMEN MUSASHI

[Michael]

That may well be, but if you don't allow yourself to perform under pressure from cliffs, prizes and competition, then your skill remains brittle.

It is one thing to talk eruditely among yourselves in here where we have restricted membership to a comfy suite, but will you be able to remain calm and 'nonchalant' when we open this place to the hordes?

[Jahn]

but will you be able to remain calm and 'nonchalant' when we open this place to the hordes?

Do we?

[Michael]

just stirring - actually I feel it is important to retain the level of Soma.
Nonetheless, we may have to sustain our individual level with an influx of new people - just not sure of the vehicle. Probably RS is the better environment, but it may need a rearrangement.

[Firestarter]

just stirring - actually I feel it is important to retain the level of Soma.
Nonetheless, we may have to sustain our individual level with an influx of new people - just not sure of the vehicle. Probably RS is the better environment, but it may need a rearrangement.

RS needs people to actually post in there and be active, and discuss. It gets more reads on threads than in here, so its being read by folks. If we moved over there and began writing on some meaty topics, then perhaps we could have new members here. Til then, nothing really 'moves' beyond the spot its in right now.

So no point in stirring. I know you've been trying with some topics over there, and Ive contributed. But many have grown comfy with soma and dont want to be at rs and answer questions and the like. What I think itll take is you just, letting it rip. Get your ass on a stronger platform and let your lion roar, not be a pussycat. Im down.

[erik]

The superior person uses his mind like a mirror: it accepts all, it reflects all. It recieves, but it does not keep.

Chuang Tzu

[Nichi]

The Way has never had borders, saying has never had norms.  It is by a "That's it" which deems that the boundary is marked.  Let me say something about the marking of boundaries.  You can locate as there and enclose by a line, sort out and assess, divide up and discriminate between alternatives compete over and fight over: these I call our Eight powers.  What is outside the cosmos the sage locates as there but does not sort out.  What is within the cosmos the sage sorts out but does not assess.

To "divide", then, is to leave something undivided: to "discriminate between alternatives" is to leave something which is neither alternative."What? you ask.  The sage keeps it in its breast, common men argue over alternatives to show it to each other.  Hence I say: "To "discriminate between alternatives" is to fail to see something".
 

The greatest Way is not cited as an authority.
The greatest discrimination is unspoken[13],
The greatest goodwill is cruel,
The greatest honesty does not make itself awkward,
The greatest courage does not spoil for a fight.

When the Way is lit it does not guide,
When speech discriminates it fails to get there,
Goodwill too constant is at someone's expense,
Honesty too clean is not to be trusted,
Courage that spoils for a fight is immature.

 

You and I are having been made to argue over alternatives, if it is you not I that twins, is it really you were on to it, I who am not? If it is I not you that wins, is it really I who am on to it, you who are not?  Is one of us on to it and the other of us not?  Or are both of us on to it and both of us not?  If you and I are unable to know where we stand, others will slowly be in the dark because of us.  Whom shall I call in to decide it, being already of your party how can he decide it?... it makes no difference whether the voices in their transformations have each other to depend on or not.  Smooth them out on the whetstone of Heaven, use them to go by and let the stream find its own channels; this is the way to live out your years.  Forget the years, forget duty, be shaken into motion by the limitless, and so find things their lodging places in the limitless.

What is meant by "Smooth them out on the whetstone of Heaven"?  Treat as "it" even what is not, treat as "so" even what is not.  If the "it" is really it, there is no longer a difference for disputation from what is not it; if the "so" is reality so, there is no longer a difference for disputation from what is not so[14].

http://www.uboeschenstein.ch/texte/Dao/zhuangzi2-graham-notes.htm

[Nichi]

Being humble

If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
even though he be a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry.
But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear.
If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing.
And all because there is somebody in the boat.
Yet if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry.

If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world,
no one will oppose you, no one will seek to harm you....

Who can free himself from achievement, and from fame, descend and be lost amid the masses of men?
He will flow like Tao, unseen, he will go about like Life itself with no name and no home.
Simple is he, without distinction. To all appearances he is a fool.
His steps leave no trace. He has no power. He achieves nothing, has no reputation.

Since he judges no one, no one judges him.
Such is the perfect man:
His boat is empty.
(20:2, 4, pp. 168-171)

Tr. Thomas Merton

http://www.terebess.hu/english/merton.html

[Nichi]

Forgetting about preferences

Tao is obscured when men understand only one pair of opposites,
or concentrate only on a partial aspect of being.
Then clear expression also becomes muddled by mere wordplay,
affirming this one aspect and denying all the rest.

The pivot of Tao passes through the center where all affirmations and denials converge.
He who grasps the pivot is at the still-point
from which all movements and oppositions can be seen in their right relationship...
Abandoning all thought of imposing a limit or taking sides, he rests in direct intuition.
(2:3, p. 59, p.61)

When we look at things in the light of Tao, nothing is best, nothing is worst.
Each thing, seen in its own light stands out in its own way.
It can seem to be "better" than what is compared with it on its own terms.
But seen in terms of the whole, no one thing stands out as "better" ...
All creatures have gifts of their own...
All things have varying capacities.

Consequently he who wants to have right without wrong, order without disorder,
does not understand the principles of heaven and earth.
He does not know how things hang together.
Can a man cling only to heaven and know nothing of earth?
They are correlative: to know one is to know the other.
To refuse one is to refuse both.
(17:4,5,8, pp. 131-133)

Tr. Thomas Merton

[Nichi]

Great and Small – Chuang Tzu

Great knowledge is broad and encompassing
Small knowledge is detailed and meticulous
Great talk is powerful and forceful
Small talk is endless and argumentative

In their sleeping hours their spirits are restless
In their waking hours their bodies are agitated
When they deal with others they get entangled
The entire day they plot and scheme

Some speak deliberately
Some set traps with words
Some are secretive
Small fears make them apprehensive
Great fears make them panic

When they speak, their words are like arrows shot out
Seeking others’ weak spots to cause damage
When they keep quiet, it is as if they have sworn an oath
Looking for opportunities to achieve victory

When they fail, it is like Autumn or Winter
We can say that they decline day after day
When they are trapped in this situation
They cannot return to their true nature

When they are obstructed as if bound
We can say that they wither and shrivel
The heart that is nearing death
Cannot regain life and vitality

Joy, anger, sadness, happiness
Worry, regret, change, horror
Impetuous, undisciplined, unruly, pretentious
Like sound coming out of holes,
Or fungus growing out of humidity
Day and night they clash before us
Yet they do not know the root cause

Enough! Enough!
Once they understand this,
Will they then comprehend the principle of life?

Without it, I cannot exist
Without me, there is no one to appreciate it
Therefore I am close to it
But I do not know what governs it

There must be a supreme ruler
But I cannot discern any trace of it
I can believe it exists from its actions
But I cannot see its shape
It has existence, but no physical form

[Builder]

Once, when Chuang Tzu was fishing in the P'u river, the king of Ch'u sent two officials to go and announce to him: "I would like to trouble you with the administration of my realm."

Chuang Tzu held onto the fishing pole and, without turning his head, said, "I have heard that there is a sacred tortoise in Ch'u that has been dead for three thousand years. The king keeps it wrapped in cloth and boxed, and stores it in the ancestral temple. Now would this tortoise rather be dead and have its bones left behind and honored? Or would it rather be alive and dragging its tail in the mud?"

"It would rather be alive dragging its tail in the mud," said the two officials.

Chuang Tzu said, "Go away! I'll drag my tail in the mud!"