Restless Soma

Birth (the spinning force, public) => Love => Topic started by: Michael on April 21, 2013, 06:51:55 AM

Title: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on April 21, 2013, 06:51:55 AM
Two of three things remaining unresolved from the previous discussion on Egypt:

What is love for an adept?

First, what is an adept? I'll postulate (feel free to disagree) that for this question, an adept is one who has succeeded in relocating 'self' from the 1st attention's body to the double. Meaning 'this life' is no longer his/her only field of self-expression. That's a big statement, but for the moment I'll just leave it there.

Thus, an adept looks upon his/her fellow humans, who are still trapped in their temporary vehicle, as passing phantoms. For two reasons: one, their identity belongs to their temporal construct; two, their 'self' will die on death, while the adept's self will survive death.

How can an adept love a non-adept?
How can an adept find love?
What does love mean to an adept?
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: nemo on April 21, 2013, 12:40:24 PM
Three Questions

http://youtu.be/IMxWLuOFyZM

Ahh that's easy lol.

Give me a bit more Michael, what are you preposing to get out of these questions being answered. Are you wanting to size up my or others answers, and so on? Have you answers to these questions already?  
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on April 21, 2013, 05:47:35 PM
No, I don't have pat answers, and I don't feel there are pat answers. I see these questions in some way plague any traveller of the Path, let alone an adept.

The main question, What is Love for an Adept? is something that has to be resolved through experience. I am open to how others see this. We have spoken elsewhere about love for a special person, and I accept this 'common' form of love remains for every person, on or off the Path.

A great solace for me, was the revelation in CCs books, of the expressed love of DJ and DG for the earth. That is not a simple statement, but I have returned to it again and again over my life, and I could explain in more detail why this is so.

The other two questions, regarding an adept's emotional relationships to others, remains a troublesome issue throughout life and after. It is filled with difficulties that are individual specific, which is why I asked how people here saw their response to it.

It is not a trick question. (Though I do love Monty Pythion  :))
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on April 22, 2013, 07:55:40 AM
This is my "piece"

http://www.youtube.com/v/xtt5ziVU1ag?rel=0

~
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: nemo on April 23, 2013, 01:10:35 PM

Quote
First, what is an adept? I'll postulate (feel free to disagree) that for this question, an adept is one who has succeeded in relocating 'self' from the 1st attention's body to the double. Meaning 'this life' is no longer his/her only field of self-expression. That's a big statement, but for the moment I'll just leave it there.

Would like to expand on this quote, before I do the love thing.

In the CC books DJ mentions as part of the rule that the eagle commands us to forget ourselves...............Then we are required to remember ourselves, ..... and so on.

When you say self you are meaning the linear memory of the tonal life that in modern terms would be the ego self, mind matrix. Then an adept, would have an expanded reflection of what the self is, which includes among other things an enhanced relationship with intent.

The term double has a Toltec meaning re: dreaming body, for me the dreaming body does not have a human form, so meanings get a little messy. I suggest that, singularities can develop their attention enough to gather the understanding and will necessary to utilize intent in expanded ways.


Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on April 26, 2013, 06:26:25 AM
I asked this question, because it is pertinent to me, as much as it is personally to many others I know who tread this path.

Amongst my 'friends', I am well known for saying I find it difficult to enjoy/appreciate children. Not because I have anything against children - quite the opposite. I have an instinctive attraction to children. It is because when I see a child, I also see the future for that child will smother the very aspects I instinctively love in them. I know the world destroys almost everything of beauty and freedom I am so attracted to in a child.

What I look for in another human, is how they emerge from their forties. It is only in the Saturnian battle of the forties that we see whether the soul of a person has survived or been irretrievably lost. Once a child reached puberty, you may as well wave them goodbye, and more so in these times than in my own. Then wait as if for a friend returning from another land, should they emerge about the age of 48, intact.

This is a truth, and it hasn't changed for me. But lately, possibly due to my own ageing, I have changed my view. It runs 'along side' my other view.

Another equally true view has emerged powerfully for me. As I age, I realize that no one actually evolves into something more real. Every being is as real as they will ever be, wherever they be, along the trajectory of their existence. There is no actual evolution of reality - we are as real in the identity of a child, as we are in that of the eighty-year old. We are as real in the ignorance of our pre-enlightenment self as we are in our enlightened self. We are as real as a common person as we are as an adept, as a phantom as a 'real' person. Sure there is a vast difference between all these states, but due to the inexorable tyranny of time - it being precious because it is limited - every moment along the timeline of any being has to be as real as any other moment. If we are not up to 'being' within that moment, that is our problem, not the moment's problem.

This change of view for me, has allowed me to fully appreciate children (in a parallel view with my other knowledge), in the same way I have watched women enjoy children. It always fascinated me to see how women approached children as a unique species of humans. With no consideration for the forming adult within them. I admired this, while I was constantly restrained by my awareness of the journey of the life that stood before me. In the same way my partner always jibs at my attempts to make her aware of the old saying - in bad times, don't forget there are good times, and more importantly, visa-versa. She hates me 'bringing down the vibe' in good times by trying to remind her 'this is not always how it is'. I realise we both have a fundamental truth in our view. Just that I have to hold two fundamental truths, while she  prefers to hold one at a time.

All this applies to an adept. I use the word adept here to describe one who has crossed the 'boundary of identity'. Meaning they have succeeded in transferring their identity to their double, who can survive death. I am not going to explain this here, and it only has meaning for those who are adepts.

When an adept loves, she has to love 'the moment', not 'the long case'. (I love this phrase 'long case', which I got from the Medical School for which I am doing IT work.) The person, or any creature for that matter, we extend our deepest affection towards, will not survive us. So what? Well, it does make a very big difference. Anyone watching Dr Who will recognise a recurring problem for him as he sequences through emotional attachments. In this post I only want to speak towards the way in which an adept experiences emotional affection for another non-adept being.

In a recent Dr Who I watched, his companion witnessed the consequences of having a time machine. He travels back and forward in time far beyond the limitations of any individual life (he also has a way of regenerating life, but that is just another extension of the same principle). She was struck by her temporarily in comparison with his vast access to time - how could she mean anything to such a person? He dodged the question ("experience makes liars of us all"), but the question still hangs there for every adept, and for all those on the path to adept. We are 'passing through' as the famous old song goes, and some of us are passing through in a different way to others.

Next I want to say something about 'love' itself, for an adept.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on April 28, 2013, 06:23:28 AM
Love for an adept, differs significantly from that of an ordinary person.

Most beings have the capacity for affection and attraction, especially to another of their own species, and humans, adepts or not, share this. There is nothing inferior about love for another person, but we have to keep in mind that in almost all cases this love is an attribute of our own subconscious. We are complex beings, and Jung's depiction of an anima/animus is a very insightful tool - you don't have to accept his whole schema, but anyone who has evolved maturity in life will immediately realise that we project something from within ourselves onto another when we fall in love.

As far I am concerned, this is a precious experience. The feeling is precious, and the person who unwittingly becomes the recipient of our projected obsession is also precious - I mean precious to us, who feel the overwhelming attraction, and precious to they who have the privilege of reflecting this attraction. This is all chest-expanding stuff, and if it stayed there all would be reasonably well. Unfortunately it doesn't stay there. It sinks to the solar-plexus where the jealousies thrive, and madness enters.

Adepts are not immune from this process, as many Sufi stories will attest. But essentially, adept does presume one has been through such an experience, and its vice-hold is broken, such that reality can be perceived through the emotional explosions from the subconscious. We come naturally to realise that other people are just like us, unless we are an adept. In the main, all humans are so much the same it is frightening. Occasionally there are 'old souls' of whom it is appropriate to celebrate and appreciate their presence. My father was one such soul, although he knew nothing of these matters.

What distinguishes an adept, is that love becomes something entirely different from the whole sympathy-antipathy, attraction-repulsion paradigm. It is a layer behind those emotional protagonists. For an adept, love is a state of being. It is NOT emotional in the way personal love is. It is, rather, a feeling of acknowledgement, a perpetual realisation of just exactly what it is we exist within. You can't fudge or fake this, just because you've heard about it, like so many immature souls seek to do in life. It comes from a profound enlightenment of our situation, without that ever-present bugger of self-importance which always steals our real life from us.

For an adept, love is the background state of awareness, constantly behind whatever other turmoil is experienced. It is not a desire for another to love me, or for me to love another, or for me to love anything - it is not a verb, but a noun. It is the consequence of enlightenment, although I dislike that word as it has become an element of competition. Let's just say it is a perennial realisation.

Let me give an example, when an adept meditates, people think such a wise one is engaged in fabulous psychic experiences. That may be true, but in the main, it's balderdash. When an adept meditates, she is simply falling back into love.

Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on April 29, 2013, 04:49:26 AM
For the pedants within us, I will add just a little technical explanation of what I have written above.

The primary problem with 'personal' love - love for another or another's love for ourself - is that it belongs to the identity of our temporary self. I have explained that an adept has shifted her identity to that of her double, from her temporary self.

Here is the quick explanation (and if you don't know what I'm talking about, you need the long explanation).

Everyone has a double. As a living being, our double is the 'other'. As the I Ching states, that which steps down a level, divides into two.

Now concentrate - dreaming is a glove. Turn the glove inside out - that is the dreaming self. Our daytime self is who we identify with - the world 'out there' is not 'me', it is the 'other'. In dream, our self is the double, and it is what in our daytime self we see as the other. We are a whole in both: outside-inside. But in the second attention, those things switch. In dream our self is our daytime's other, and the world we exist within is our daytime self. This is why we have been told to love others as ourself! For Christ sake, could it it be made more plain!

When we switch our identity across to our double, we switch our love - our love is everything out there not what's inside, but what's outside.

This is by no means the full story of the double, as an activated double is another thing altogether. But it doesn't change the basic structure of our existing being. The entire history of humanity has been built on a lie. Certain inorganic forces are dedicated to hiding this plain truth from us - what we live in, our world, is as much ourself as who we are within our own body. It has been said over and over by every tradition, but no one gets it. We still think we are doing things to 'someone else', that the consequences of our actions do not concern us. This realisation is all in the path of the double.

So to say love is a state, within which I exist, simply means I have transferred my identity to my double, and my love is my double's love - I am not me, I am 'that out there'. This is why DJ said when his time is up, he will join what is waiting for him out there, pointing to what surrounds him.

Could anything be any clearer? :)
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: nemo on April 30, 2013, 04:44:56 PM
Michael for the most part, in these last three posts, there is a running theme that I am not in total agreement with. It is not that what you are saying is wrong, it's not as expanded as it can be.

Would you like me to point what I see out to you, with and explanation? 



Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 01, 2013, 05:51:36 AM
You don't need my permission to write nemo. It's an open forum. Speak your mind.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 01, 2013, 06:31:57 AM
:) enjoying the thread thanks Michael . Wish i had something to add " maybe later " , would like to add it is very helpful perspective
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 01, 2013, 07:34:39 AM
The questions are for everyone running stream - just offer your insights as you feel them come to you.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 01, 2013, 07:35:25 AM
In spite of what I said about ‘love in the moment’, nonetheless, the fact an adept is orientated to survival, while everyone surrounding her is disinterested in that subject, does make a difference. You can love a pet animal or bird, knowing full well their time is far less than your own. But somehow that is not the same when it comes to people. It is not that they will die before you, it’s that the orientation of their soul is temporary. We don’t expect anything more of a pet, although I did try my best with one special dog I had, and I think I may have succeeded, though I can’t be sure just yet.

I explained something quite real about love, in my first post responding to the questions. Where we accept the moment as sufficient. Except it doesn’t deny the equal reality of a vast chasm between one who has dedicated her life to the penetration of awareness beyond death, and others who have no interest in that whatsoever.

In order to become an adept, one has to build an unbroken, unbending, constant and ever-present struggle towards firstly unravelling the secrets, and secondly sustaining and deepening the knowledge revealed in those secrets. This is no easy road. In fact I can’t think of a more difficult road, because it is an internal struggle. Many have extremely difficult external struggles, but it is a very rare person who choses to take on a path of inner struggle. In the early stages of my path, I was bewildered as to why people couldn’t see such a path was the only quest worthy of life. As I grew older, I became accustomed, though never really understanding, to the choice of almost all humans to allow their spirit to slowly die.

I did understand the attraction to giving in, especially when I live in a world which doesn’t value the path of inner aspiration - this has not always been the case in the history of humanity. And yet, by the time I lost my romanticism of spirit, I simply couldn’t give up. Something within me would never allow me to just sit back and watch TV - time now is always precious, and insufficient. My yearning strangely grew in step with another side of me that felt more and more satisfied and accepting. I speak of this only to give some insight to the huge consequences of choosing a path of knowledge of the tree of life, so that you can see how difficult it is to engage in loving relationships with others who have very little interest in such a path.

To be honest, an adept rarely spends much time with those who have no inner awareness of spirit - it is in the nature of the double, about which I explained a little above, that we will always mix with beings of like spirit in some form or other. But who we associate with, tend to be those with an unconscious or naive level of spirit. They intuitively have this sense of being old souls, or seekers, yet never grasping the nettle with all hands and feet. Unfortunately being of a natural inclination, is insufficient.

The adept is faced with loving others with whom she is never able to share the most overwhelmingly powerful force within her being. This is unavoidably difficult. The path of an adept is almost always a hidden path. It is possible to join with others of like-mind, and many traditions have set up such communities throughout the ages. Although such communities do provide a lot of nourishment, nonetheless, it can never relieve an adept from being on a solitary path.

There is a fundamental reason for this. While it is essential to learn from others in the early stages of the path, ultimately it leads us to a profoundly singular experience with infinity. This is because in our core, we are one. There is only one point of awareness for all beings, and everything extending out from that point is awareness-of. Community is precious, yet ultimately an illusion. At the final threshold, we are always alone with that vastness. All the work is in preparation to withstand that moment of final realisation, and survive.

Love for another can never fulfil what it pretends to offer. I know many will fight against such a conclusion, and I have no interest in convincing anyone. You are all welcome to your own view about such personal matters - I wish you well. But I must speak my experience, and my experience is one of quintessential wilderness.

It doesn’t end there however, because an adept is a strange being, with resources beyond the average person. A adept has the capacity to build a vast aura, within which others can shelter. But that is another matter, for another day.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 05, 2013, 07:58:08 AM
I'm at a critical point in this thread of ideas, so I'd feel remiss to not speak of the last element.
To be honest, I had no intention of talking about all this when I asked the first questions. I only knew my double was fired up about it, and what has followed is as much a surprise to me as anyone.

The last point is absolutely significant to an adept, or anyone for that matter. But especially for an adept, because such a person has foregone most of the standard protective measures all species devote themselves to for the sake of survival. In order to pursue the path of knowledge, a person needs to leave the main road, and take risks with the future. Eventually we, who tread such a path, reach a threshold past we can't return. We face the same physical and psychological challenges as all beings through life, but without the standard backup of finances and social resources carefully stored away in conventional forms.

What I have described above is the underlying knowledge we use to create a unique from of security, of sanctuary.

Just like with conventional forms of security, there are no absolute assurances, no absence of the unexpected. But in essence, by building gradually a relationship with our double, we are actually building a relationship with the world which comes to us. This is our covenant.

This relationship is built on so many things - there is not the space to ever fully explain the array of practices, risks and experiences we launch into to evolve an active double. But one thing is paramount: love. Remember, the world that surrounds us, and by which I especially mean the interpretation we continuously generate towards objects and events, is our double. When we love the world, we are loving our double.

If also we have applied the elements of magical energy to this world of ours, and we have succeeded in revealing an active double, then we have a powerful friend - in fact, lover - working with us for our survival and benefit.

Unfortunately, that doesn't spell safety or comfort. This is part of the bargain. Our relationship is one of knowledge - spirit knowledge - and freedom. To gain those goals, we have to adopt a special relationship with everything that comes our way. For the average person, events do not necessarily hold knowledge, but for an adept, there is an unbroken covenant that everything which happens to her is a doorway to knowledge. That is love for an adept.

One who practices and understands this love, is by definition, an adept.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 05, 2013, 12:35:35 PM
I liked the idea that when a man ...or a woman has no one to turn to ,

can 'turn' to the Earth... - love - ..The mother -

______All is good [

Relaxing and letting go of all fear is good as well.

song, I remembered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3FRpiHb1jk
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 06, 2013, 07:18:27 AM
I
Really need to write something , anything here
two streams run together
Adept non adept/ try at love
the struggle is with non struggle
untill we realise there is no boss
When a river is just a river
When the depth of an ocean is shared
when fluidity is shared
When the reflection cast is shared
When individual natures work
When time has one standing down stream waiting
And another hand reaches out mid strem to run together
when the hand wishes with everything it has that they may swim
When chemistry is also pertinent
When the weary never lose faith
when foreknowledge and sign join two along their stride
With everything you have
to be enough
When wishing that it will be a long ride finally wih another
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 07, 2013, 03:42:55 AM

nice, running stream.

love is really a key, tool, ...all...

The most important for all, to all and ... all ...sometimes at least,

in this place of the universe where we are... and from ... if we are to depart.~...

Don Juan said: "We are a feeling trapped here." Pushing or maybe showing , his chest.  :)

He also said there 're no survivors... Times are critical I think and we cannot have a total control most of the times.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 07, 2013, 04:26:21 AM
Relaxing and allowing things go their way is crucial and what I 'm practicing more, recently.

In the end we don't know, but we can be relaxed and clear as spirits... *shrug left shoulder* ...^
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 09, 2013, 06:18:57 AM

It is nice to find companions
I heard in a movie once
" go , join rivers with him/her"
I think it is ingrained into our selves to find this
Brightness
Title: Platform
Post by: Michael on May 11, 2013, 07:13:11 AM
I have spoken of the ‘wilderness’ core of the adept. That is all very well, and oddly enough, not the difficult part. That is the Shavite heart of all who seek the path to the boarders of reality. But it has to be moderated, or at least accommodated, with some other realities of everyday life.

When I speak of love being extended, for the adept, beyond that of the familiar human sphere, it is not to say that an adept’s heart is always alien. I shouldn’t need to emphasise that the human sphere is our primary locus of influence - both in and out.

Anyone seeking to operate effectively in the world knows networking is essential. For this exercise, I’ll split networking into two groups: close friendships (meaning those we see often) and wider associations (those we deal with on an irregular, yet consistent basis).

An adept’s love is outward. Meaning she is not seeking love from others, rather, she is seeking to offer love. She has an abundance of love, which she seeks to share as widely as possible. And this has very practical consequences - as I have previously explained, it is a reciprocal process, not engaged in unconsciously.

Close friends are necessary, and here I refer to others who are not ‘on the path’, yet with which we have a karmic connection, meaning we feel affinity with, sufficient to categorise them as ‘close friends’. These are especially the group with which we experience the phenomenon of ‘platform’. To sit down, or share a windscreen, with a true ‘friend of the path’, is only something that young people enjoy. By the time an adept has reached her fifties, she is alone - all those who professed their credentials in youth, have long since been sucked back into their parent’s paradigm. An adept, almost by definition, is ‘one who is alone’. Or rather, she is a survivor of the path.

The wider associations of an adept, or of anyone for that matter, are absolutely critical. These are the people with which we exchange favours and connections, typically built upon our work-related sphere. By which I mean, directly related to work, or more often related to all the things we do through the finance we gain from our work. I can’t emphasise enough how significant this wider sphere of friendships is for our life, let alone our path. But there is an unstated agreement in all these relationships that we never address ‘platform’. Whatever that is to anyone - religion, politics (not sex, which is always present when the gender differs) - it is left to one side, except for the occasional, unavoidable quip. Addressing the platform is precisely the threshold of close friends.

Close friends are hard enough - there is always the issue of responsibility towards friendship, when you feel you have to say something the other person doesn’t want to hear, but which you know they could well respond years later, “Why didn’t you say something if you could see what was happening?”. For an adept, the case is significantly more difficult, because on many of the most important decisions in life there has to be an agreement of fundamentals - a basic platform of values from which decisions are referenced.

The agreement platform is a fundamental condition of direction - the direction we face in life. It is almost impossible to have close friends who share your platform. This creates a continual ‘gap’ between the adept and her close friends. A gap of frustration, of feeling inadequate to mount an argument (that you know should be said), because it is conditional upon a value platform that others do not know of, or accept. Yet it is precisely this very ‘gap’ that holds so much for the adept.

It is in the palpable awareness of distinction over such a critical point, that so much energy for our path can be harnessed. It is as if we are pursuing a line of discussion, until we realise our point can not be driven home because there exists this gap between us and our friend, which in a flash, we see cannot be bridged. At that moment we are left looking down into the abyss. An abyss that lies between the path of the adept and that of the common person. We have to catch ourself at that moment - see the gap, see the friend, and see the dilemma of love.

The path of the adept is not built upon comfortable foundations. It is built upon unanswerable questions, unresolvable feelings, uncertainty and dissonance. Again and again we have to place ourselves in the crosswinds, challenge our beliefs, dismantle our edifice of certitude. Why?

This is the secret of love. Underneath, on the other side, the ‘double’ of love, lies wisdom. To be willing to stand vulnerable between convictions, in no-man’s-land, with the abyss below and only our momentum keeping us stable. This is not only the experience of love for all beings, it is also the experience of enlightenment for adepts. There is a difference, but not in essence - only in knowing why we have come this way.

A threshold on the path, marks the adept’s initiation. It is the moment we realise our choices have had irreversible consequences. For better of worse, there is no turning back - we must lie in the bed we have so romantically made for ourselves. Our invisible guide may point back to our past, with an unspoken question. It’s too late. We mistakenly think of love as wonderful and pleasurable. That is not true.

Love is struggle and courage. Love is a solitary path which only our death watches.
Title: Re: Platform
Post by: Kal on May 11, 2013, 01:09:30 PM

Michael said:

For better of worse,

I like that.  :P

It's true that the real path is staying real to yourself which means walking at the edge of an abyss.

The word adept is new to me, and I wouldn't use it personally to define "One" real to himself. At first I thought it was a term for external, non human help.

Our terms vary, I can't easily use the word double as well for instance which I replace with the word dreamer. (.!)

Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 11, 2013, 02:48:47 PM

I watched this video again, it was on my recommendations,

You must have seen it.

(just needs a little quietness/silence if you see it.(...after)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MW46cu0UM8

It's the girl's speech that stopped "the world" for a while.

Nick /Nikos
Title: Re: Love for adepts?n
Post by: runningstream on May 16, 2013, 06:06:01 AM
Without reading whAt you wrote again , yet finding my tea kettle boiling about it suddenly , i havE realised within simplicity i find myself completely cut of from tradition of structures which others find necessay , social structures in particular , as you pointed out the platform and even the idea of " forum " structure as it would be in somebody hypnotised to have such informatio. Hidden from them in plain sight , hence a sort of disfunction dream life which is quite real and funtional within its parameters and yet somewhat unconventional to the point of appearing complEty disfunctional . I seem to have ommited the tier and platform although present nowe in view , to a great extent , " selfishness" is a balanc between functionality and movement , not of distinguishable parMeters , more as i imagine it somebody has burnt down all the fences " or continues to do so" and following bread crumbs
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 16, 2013, 06:25:46 AM
I once had a dream i was flying with a girl , we
Shot up
Like an arrow into the sky
Literally shot fast up like an arrow
As we flew through the sky
Many people tried to catch us
I was afraid
Of their grabbing
And so zoomed fAster and avoided them
Quickly
Now
It may be something like this
Yet another time
I began to learn
A man seemed to be explaining minute
Details in microscopic painstaking steps
This was knowledge spoken
I looked at him with skewed glace
And slowed to see what he spoke
He was intriguing
And i saw that he spoke of intricacy
" in intricacy"
So much detail
And i began to see this way
That was a long time ago
so it was walking to see
What was seen
And
Those scales
Balance
walking and talking about walking
A snare was one
In
Another view necessary
One complimented the other
now i wonder if one leg was longer than the other
what is this double business
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 19, 2013, 04:17:21 AM
Michael for the most part, in these last three posts, there is a running theme that I am not in total agreement with. It is not that what you are saying is wrong, it's not as expanded as it can be.

Would you like me to point what I see out to you, with and explanation? 

Still waiting for your offering nemo...
Title: Re: Love for adepts? Love for Life!
Post by: nemo on May 22, 2013, 10:53:07 AM
Sorry about that, my attention was required elsewhere :)

If you remember Brave sir Robin, stepping forward after he deflects being the first, by having the great idea that sir Lancelot go ahead of him. We (the greater we) have had others postulating, a path,a view point, a description of their experience, and then the next generation of those inclined to can add to it. Put things in their own words. The confidence of sir Robin came by making the incorrect assessment, that those three questions are not uniquely specific to whomever approaches, the questioner. Each age, and civilization has those that come forward, to answer metaphysical musings, and seeing energy directly, today, one is not looking at the same energetic presentation from the bridge keeper. This day and age is unique in that most if not all offerings from the past are available to many seekers, and reflect what was, not what is.

When we are forced to forget ourselves, and begin life as babies, we have surrounding us a set of fixed parameters.That new being is by the force of life moved from something pliable and innocent, to something managed and contaminated. It is meant to be that way, it is part of the way things have been set up.

Looking at this, situation is not the same as seeing this event. Much like the characters in a play/movie as we become familiar with the characters, we "get" what is funny about Sir Robin, and goofy about sir Lancelot, faulty about King Arthur, and so on. If all the divisions manifest in the differences that can be labeled love, an adept in my view has learned to be fluid enough to move in and out of experiences, without being hooked by them, and love then is just part of an inventory available to the emotional body.

Looking at Love, is not the same as seeing love, but the difference between love for an adept and that for a non adept, the way you have put it Michael, to me is separating something that is uniform. When we see white light separated into the spectrum of colors, Love to a seer is much the same, there is love, and then there are different types of love. If we remember ourselves, then we know we are primal love, and all the different expressions of love are an enjoyment, a chance to see the spectrum of love experience. An adept, is not separate from the full spectrum, an adept uses will to  navigate the full spectrum, complemented by the knowledge that all forms of Love, from it's source perspective is equal.

Will then being an active ingredient of personal power of an adept to pick choice alignments, available within the spectrum of love. Your partner Michael must be a wonderful being, showing the fluidity and will to emphasize choice alignments. Put another way, I choose with my will to make everything equal, then enjoy what comes my way, without judgment, then I asses what I choose to align with, from the full emotional range available to the energy body.

Love then looked at in this way shows that the adept can carry continually a dual perceptive of love, One that is more akin to a  detached frequency resonance, view that all he or she observes, is love,an experience of self reflection, where judgment is inappropriate, because one is "seeing" and the other as a separate being enjoying the moments as they come and go.

One thing brought forward by DJ, through the works of CC, that intrigues me are the "irreducible truths". I have over the years eliminated items from my ponderings once i reduced them to prime. One such item is love, the irreducible truth for me is that all and everything is love, period 

 
Title: Re: Love for adepts? Love for Life!
Post by: Michael on May 22, 2013, 06:37:55 PM
the irreducible truth for me is that all and everything is love, period 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see this sentence as the principle behind your post above.
I don't have a problem with it, but there is something in this, often repeated, view that I find curious. I see it as a philosophical deceit, in the same sense as 'poetic deceit'. Not deceitful in intent, but in the need to use language to describe the indescribable.

This view, that everything is love, seems to me a product of having been raised in a Christian culture. I am not aware of any other religion (except Bhakti in Hinduism and Islam) which places such central importance on love. And although all cultures like the experience of romantic love, very few have any tradition of its significance outside romantic relationships. The Japanese didn't even have a word for love. Hinduism in general would cringe at such a simplistic concept, pointing instead to a vast array of love-like emotions attributed to certain Gods. Hindu Bhakti, a more recent development in Hinduism, is definitely into full-on 'everything is love'.

The point I am making, is that we choose the linguistic/conceptual tools of our culture to interpret something beyond interpretation. I could equally say everything is fruit, or everything is seed, or everything is energy. The feeling behind these is quite different, but they are all a way to reference back to what we see personally as our crucial value.

Unfortunately, for me, I have a visceral antipathy to Christianity. Having been raised a Catholic, which of all the sects of Christianity I prefer due to its colour and weirdness, I was never comfortable in it. Once I discovered other religions, I realised how arbitrary are so much of our profound beliefs. So a part of me winces every time I perceive a Christian element. It is an echo of what to my feelings was such a constricted and dark memory of boredom. Thus I go to considerable trouble to redefine 'love' away from the Christian stamp.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 22, 2013, 09:20:36 PM
In a realm ruled by a predator there can only be but love.  ;D

Interesting -it would be- to discuss 'compassion'


Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: nemo on May 22, 2013, 09:58:43 PM
The Christian theology is probably my least favorite of them all. If you see or feel that what I am saying is a repeated from that doctrine you are mistaken. I almost did not put that last part in because it makes something I see with depth into something mistakingly familiar and is then understood in a preconditioned way, not the way I mean it.

There was so much more to my post than that bit at the end, so I though it would be seen in that context.

The seeing of love being everything comes from seeing all that is in play directly, this for me at least is a fundamental condition of being an adept. The jury may still be out that a being can be an adept but not see energy directly.  If you read my post and got what you did out of it then I must conclude that you are not seeing what I am saying.

You started this thread because you felt that the Egypt thread had some loose ends, and I do not agree with that assessment. You seem to feel the need for external confirmation of what Love is for an adept, where I do not, I know what love is for me and if love to you was close to what it was for me then you would have understood what I said in the context I meant it.

Another way to say this, is that we live in an energetic framework that separates into individual parts something that is whole and complete such as light into the experience of colours, sound into the experience of musical scale, emotion into a variety of experience, knowledge into a variety words, looks into a variety of appeal, and assemblage points into personalities. For me then love is the primal source of everything, because everything is conscious, and everything is radiates divisions of source energy unique and whole, separate, yet complete.

When Genaro hugged the earth, he was expressing his love for the being that is the expression of the emanations that he has aligned with, he acknowledged the elements, his body was made of, conscious and aware.

 

Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 22, 2013, 11:18:34 PM
nemo

I think the west, a sunset for example, separates thye things differently than the east.

For a more colorful purpose.

I would like to not complete my thought right now since it's not so important currently...

by my definition love must involve some action, even if it is like putting a pebble in a spot.

I can't understand love without "an" action involved - let's say- in.

<.Just one pebble.>
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 24, 2013, 04:08:24 AM
The Christian theology is probably my least favorite of them all. If you see or feel that what I am saying is a repeated from that doctrine you are mistaken. I almost did not put that last part in because it makes something I see with depth into something mistakingly familiar and is then understood in a preconditioned way, not the way I mean it.

Yes, good point. I understand that dilemma with words. My reply about Christian paradigm was not really in response to your post, but something I felt necessary to clarify, seeing we are on one of those subjects too often arrogated by Christianity. Not that I have any problem with the emphasis Jesus placed on it, just the way it has been used since.
Title: Re: Love for adepts? Love for Life!
Post by: Michael on May 24, 2013, 07:39:28 AM
If you remember Brave sir Robin, stepping forward after he deflects being the first, by having the great idea that sir Lancelot go ahead of him. We (the greater we) have had others postulating, a path,a view point, a description of their experience, and then the next generation of those inclined to can add to it. Put things in their own words. The confidence of sir Robin came by making the incorrect assessment, that those three questions are not uniquely specific to whomever approaches, the questioner. Each age, and civilization has those that come forward, to answer metaphysical musings, and seeing energy directly, today, one is not looking at the same energetic presentation from the bridge keeper. This day and age is unique in that most if not all offerings from the past are available to many seekers, and reflect what was, not what is.

...

One thing brought forward by DJ, through the works of CC, that intrigues me are the "irreducible truths".

This is called the path rising on the spiral. The irreducible truth is the core around which the path spirals. At any one time, adepts pointed to the core. But the direction of point is different as the spiral turnes. At each phase in the evolution of life, one has to draw a new line to the core. The old lines, drawn in earlier phases of the spiral, are no longer accurate.

That's the principle, but it can't be used to arrogate unto oneself the mantle of 'knowledge of the core'. The work must still be done, and the percipience must still be a dead shot to the centre core. The old lines are not wrong, they are just no longer useful. Every new practitioner has to learn from the old lines, then stand back and re-aim. That's the rule of the spiral.

But along with the new perspective, comes the new deception. The first danger is that a practitioner becomes fooled by the new deception, and instead of pointing to the core irreducible truth, points to a substituted token - substituted by the new deception. That is the first danger to watch out for.

The second danger is to fail to distinguish between those elements that must be re-configured due to the turn of the spiral, and those elements that are also irreducible truths. The irreducible truth is not just the spiral core, it also includes aspects of the new perspective.

In the example of the guardian of the bridge, each person had to know language, had to have succeeded in arriving at that point on the road, had to achieved a shared platform of understanding with the guardian. On the path, there are many basic and unchangeable-over-the-ages lessons that have to be mastered, before the moment of redrawing the line to the core. Too often today I see many would-be aspirants deem it unnecessary to submit to mastering these essentials, and believe it sufficient to address the core, sans adequate preparation. The result is that they completely miss the core truth altogether due to insufficient tunk to penetrate the mirages of the path, or they fall victim to the fate of Glyndon in the story of Zanoni, and live forever in fear of the Guardian of the Threshold.
Title: Re: Love for adepts? Love for Life!
Post by: Kal on May 24, 2013, 09:24:24 PM
This is called the path rising on the spiral. The irreducible truth is the core around which the path spirals. At any one time, adepts pointed to the core. But the direction of point is different as the spiral turnes. At each phase in the evolution of life, one has to draw a new line to the core. The old lines, drawn in earlier phases of the spiral, are no longer accurate.

That's the principle, but it can't be used to arrogate unto oneself the mantle of 'knowledge of the core'. The work must still be done, and the percipience must still be a dead shot to the centre core. The old lines are not wrong, they are just no longer useful. Every new practitioner has to learn from the old lines, then stand back and re-aim. That's the rule of the spiral.

But along with the new perspective, comes the new deception. The first danger is that a practitioner becomes fooled by the new deception, and instead of pointing to the core irreducible truth, points to a substituted token - substituted by the new deception. That is the first danger to watch out for.

The second danger is to fail to distinguish between those elements that must be re-configured due to the turn of the spiral, and those elements that are also irreducible truths. The irreducible truth is not just the spiral core, it also includes aspects of the new perspective.

In the example of the guardian of the bridge, each person had to know language, had to have succeeded in arriving at that point on the road, had to achieved a shared platform of understanding with the guardian. On the path, there are many basic and unchangeable-over-the-ages lessons that have to be mastered, before the moment of redrawing the line to the core. Too often today I see many would-be aspirants deem it unnecessary to submit to mastering these essentials, and believe it sufficient to address the core, sans adequate preparation. The result is that they completely miss the core truth altogether due to insufficient tunk to penetrate the mirages of the path, or they fall victim to the fate of Glyndon in the story of Zanoni, and live forever in fear of the Guardian of the Threshold.

Thanks for that info Michael,
Valuable,, I found correspondence.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 28, 2013, 06:25:28 AM
i would really like to see a lot of people generate a great deal of spiral energy , in turn writing with what they are and find them selves have a closely resonating tune ,
to turn those gears as beings plugged into their core reference , as adjustment to the tune of their unfolding steps 
If i imagine a cosmic spiral reaching a veilable yet usable union of un veiling / together
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Michael on May 29, 2013, 04:51:51 AM
i would really like to see a lot of people generate a great deal of spiral energy , in turn writing with what they are and find them selves have a closely resonating tune ,
to turn those gears as beings plugged into their core reference , as adjustment to the tune of their unfolding steps 
If i imagine a cosmic spiral reaching a veilable yet usable union of un veiling / together

You're a born member of the global sangha runningstream. There are far more of us than it seems, and far less than we wish.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 30, 2013, 02:04:42 AM
So much happens , for instance , wind , the whirlwind came , there would have been no need , so i laughed to myself and look where it might attach , i could not find anything , exept a little curiosity as for the why . Another time the sun came and that was another story , because with it came rain , when it hit the ground things grew . I found no one who understood so i wander around and stop asking questions and speak if what i see to those who might know yet no one seemed to speak of rain ,
In a spiral a rainbow , the sun piercing the spectrum through water placing on the earth , i saw them all today and yesterday , the rainbow over the small mountain , the wind that came in the night looking to taunt , the rain , and the balet of the earth .
Sometimes you can make it rain , and that is the spiral i am talking of ,
Perhaps some don't want it to rain that way , for just anyone , as they believe the heaven to be dangerous ,
So unheard to speak for one of may be considered dangerous , or crazy , or evil .
Maybe that is what the church had done , so it may rain as they wish ,
nothing can be done now as it will rain " harvest" quickly in this spiral , and that includes those who wish for the old to stay the same for them .
if the spiral reaches through , then the place " personal " " community" " universal" will render that .
So that is to say , create very quickly now , different streams appear , available to interpretation of individual , colors " metaphor"
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on May 30, 2013, 02:09:17 AM
I have wrote the words " nothing can be done now" by an accident , if only to have a chance to say correctly , everything can be done now !
I believe in a harmony created by keys within this structure
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 30, 2013, 09:38:56 AM
I was thinking an hour or two ago, how the times where different in 2001 or 1994. (I was young in 1994 but I can remember the times).

To me now, life seems so open than I 'm having trouble.

My image of today is autumn leaves disintegrating in the soft ground.

NV
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on May 31, 2013, 01:25:47 AM
I have wrote the words " nothing can be done now" by an accident , if only to have a chance to say correctly , everything can be done now !
I believe in a harmony created by keys within this structure

I think
sometimes... you can't do much... you let the world and let love in a way.

At a finest level, silence and love must lead and ...sometimes you face plain absurdity.

So, you , I personally look for strategies for the best outcome... for all involved which primary(from a more personal perspective) is yourself, something abstract and ...returning to my first point, something like a little candle or a little buddha in a world full of light-s.

:-p

edited for ease and simplification.-
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Endless~Knot on June 30, 2013, 09:07:46 PM
Two of three things remaining unresolved from the previous discussion on Egypt:

What is love for an adept?

First, what is an adept? I'll postulate (feel free to disagree) that for this question, an adept is one who has succeeded in relocating 'self' from the 1st attention's body to the double. Meaning 'this life' is no longer his/her only field of self-expression. That's a big statement, but for the moment I'll just leave it there.

Thus, an adept looks upon his/her fellow humans, who are still trapped in their temporary vehicle, as passing phantoms. For two reasons: one, their identity belongs to their temporal construct; two, their 'self' will die on death, while the adept's self will survive death.

How can an adept love a non-adept?
How can an adept find love?
What does love mean to an adept?

That is a really tricky question and I am not an adept, but I will try to answer it.

I do not feel I am 'trapped' by any programming any longer, and I have loved people who I feel were trapped by programming and attachments. I do not think this stops us from loving them however.

I think we have the innate ability to see people at their core selves, and want what is best for them.

They still have a natural innocence about them, something from within, which can make us love them. They may not see life the same way we see it, but they may have a unique view of life which we can appreciate.

They may be good to other people, and caring, and giving, and this may teach us.

We can still learn from people who are not 'adept as us.'
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: Kal on July 01, 2013, 11:53:20 AM
I personally can understand what Michael talks about and feels ... as love for adepts.

I have felt it as well recently for an adept.

I only think that adepts are extremely rare... and well... that's all.
_______

I'm using the term as Michael does.

This love is indeed unique, I think.

Love and God bless.   ;D
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on December 09, 2016, 09:44:18 AM
It's there in your words ,
It's the force behind the two views ,
Its between like and dislike ,
Its movement , it's love , love joins them three ,
When whats out there fuses this self and double ,
Three become one , knowledge is loves romance,
Following your lover ,
Illuminating the stage becomes the same observer from three points no longer removed ,
They're words to point with ,
Once you point and it moves where you point ,
Where you dream you be , a dreamer and a pointer ,
Things move for me , I am that light that lights them ,
Maya is a dream ,
I am a dreamer , rising up , and I'm risen ,
Love is abstract , it points back at me ,
It is impossible to be alone , when I am responsible for the  earth , for time , for hearts of fallen , who have been deceived and wander away from love ,
Love is behind these things , in time being built up and then torn down ,
I would say love is for the earth , yet the ability to love comes from above , you could say love is unconditional , yet a self fused has choice , knowledge gives educated choice and movement follows ,
Where heart sees suffering to cone into union ,
A base may see a simple time , without complexity ,
Knowledge brings more time love I mean ,
Love expands alright , outwards into greater space ,
Into the dreamer and the dream ,
The dream expanded gives more knowledge ,
Of self as all , self is still there witnessing , the view has expanded where self is all , love for self is love for all .

Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on December 09, 2016, 10:29:23 AM
Yeah the bible not for everybody nemo,
Even if it's a current map and the truth ,
There's assholes who don't see it ,
There was a girl in the supermarket a few days ago as I was buying garlic said she had argued with a guy
Who said garlic was for people who couldn't cook ,
She said she could argue about anything pouting ,and win any argument according to her .
I said : I'd probably stir you up , and watch you argue and you could win all you like . like a whirlwind. Gekko cluck clucks.
Title: Re: Love for adepts?
Post by: runningstream on December 09, 2016, 10:34:55 AM
I'll be glad to take the time to tell you the stories I understand if you like , I was always fascinated by the fact a woman could type on a computer even correct things and ponder , whilst maintaining a full scale conversation and directions of a phone call ,
What miraculous creatures , even anybody who could play guitar and sing , or maybe drums and singing amazing separate rhythms was never my thing ,
I was able to look at the tower of Babel and tell you what was being said however , even if it sounded like jibberish it made sense