Restless Soma
Death (the tumbling force, public) => The Toltec World => Topic started by: Endless~Knot on September 27, 2015, 06:14:28 PM
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"The only concrete help you ever get from me is that I attack your self-reflection. If it weren't for that, you would be wasting your time. This is the only real help you have gotten from me." ~The Power of Silence.
Ultimately this is the crux of what don Juan did. Through the books with Carlos. What it boils down to is ego and completely upsetting self-reflection.
This can be down on your own. but it is difficult without a teacher, like Carlos had. Without a teacher, group, or even dear friend who is skilled in the art. But it is definitely not impossible, esp. if the warrior is brutally honest. They can attack their own reflection but this really requires knowing the self and how you tick.
It requires a lot of work, shutting off the internal dialogue, and stalking of the self. But other people are invaluable in attacking self-reflection. Check how others respond to you, and what feedback they present. Other people are great mirrors of the self. We know ourselves through looking inward, but we also know ourselves by going outward and seeing ourselves in others. Those we love, and even those we despise. Once we do these things, we can see ourselves clearly, and eventually do away with it completely.
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there was a mudlark the other day pecking at a window continuously
by its reflection
seemed to spark a drive for the opposite sex i was told
as the indication of the season dictated
funny thing poles
i am sure they will create some type of hovering craft one day
based upon such principles
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For me the cut off of self reflection came without me being on the warrior path and got me totally unprepared in the long journey (I was on) run.
in first it felt magical.
8)
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i believe self reflection may be within both the energy body and the physical body
as the energy body would not give way to reason its reflection as awareness would differ in its environment
through feeling seeing
the reflection of reason and reason based technologies then seen would attach to the receiver differently
the natural state of the earth and nature would deliver different sensations to the reflection
and self preservation even useful to its connection
and 'connection' being the optimal word
feeling is inclusive of the environment in this case
there are facets to movement like dreaming intent
the combination is within the world based still
like the old seers who's seeing did not save them when they got clubbed over the head
the creation of worlds or the creation of "paths"
both have responsibilities to both external and internals or both "seeing " "awareness"
spirit connects all sides as far as i can see
you can approach it where you like
"You take the high road, I'll take the low road.' kind of thing
peace/ease and movement
the stimuli you cant escape
to choose the direction
slaves say things like you can free your mind
i'd like to embody somewhat more than that though
just my personal "I " preference
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"Ive been trying to make clear to you that the only worthwhile course of action, whether for sorcerers or average men, is to restrict our involvement with self-image...What a Nagual aims at with his apprentices is the shattering of their mirror of self-reflection." ~The Power of Silence.
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do you prefer being the stalker or the stalkee
and when its done where do you stand ?
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imagine attacking self importance to a point
the point of reflection between two points becomes one point
yet attacking is a strong word
because it is aligning with the other self
so its actually coming to terms with the direction
i think it is critical to distinguish paths
to arrive upon destinations
it is confusing seeing so many religions and paths
left hand and right hand
and then middle
Nargajuna spoke of the middle
yet i understand it in my own way
so perhaps it is not the same
yet it is still the middle
as the middle is followed
I don't know if Don Juan was reaching stalking and dreaming towards this end "third attention"
Carlos seemed trapped in dreaming to the best of my knowledge and Don Juan mentioned him as someone who takes prisoners and does not give freedom
although his descriptions of the actions Don Juan gave us were invaluable and as far as i am concerned he fulfilled his task by doing so
perhaps stalking is the same as in its ability to trap and not reach the dreamer ?
i believe it was all about heart
because it was the unbiased witness able to navigate
operative word "Navigate"
sure there are other tiers to knowledge
yet if you were dreaming awake between ease and movement ? fluidly
having integrated the left side and the right side teachings
then stepping carefully across
I am not sure if Don Juan would have liked the Dzogchen leap over too
maybe it was all practice for the big event
to enter that light body
words are tricky
i could call the ego the reflection of past identified as an impression in the water
and the speed necessary to stay ahead delivered from the heart and spirit through the connection
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the paradox here in the paths is in reaching "0" point - loss of reflection
and that of reaching "1" point - of reflection
"1" point - of reflection actually equaling "infinite"- points of awareness perception !
some would say the two are the same yet i would beg to differ
being that the being would be still standing when the latter occurred
returning to "chop wood carry water "
the reflection wold then also reflect infinity as a third ingredient of awareness perception
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As described by Don Juan at least in Castaneda books, I think being cut-off the chains of self reflection is not complicated. (Maybe this is -which is- my experience only). I think of it as an awakening of some sorts. (which I believe plenty people have in our times) The first moment all you see is yourself in a way, like being in a bubble of fog, the next you don't have this attachment.
I don't think it has to do anything with the ego.
Of course it can be deepened in, in many (such) manners...
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You see, this is the problem. It is our self-reflection which is considering this discussion as much as being asked to down-size itself. Basically that is impossible without external pressure.
For example:
As described by Don Juan at least in Castaneda books, I think being cut-off the chains of self reflection is not complicated. (Maybe this is -which is- my experience only). I think of it as an awakening of some sorts. (which I believe plenty people have in our times) The first moment all you see is yourself in a way, like being in a bubble of fog, the next you don't have this attachment.
I don't think it has to do anything with the ego.
Of course it can be deepened in, in many (such) manners...
[self-reflection speaking]
the paradox here in the paths is in reaching "0" point - loss of reflection
and that of reaching "1" point - of reflection
"1" point - of reflection actually equaling "infinite"- points of awareness perception !
some would say the two are the same yet i would beg to differ
being that the being would be still standing when the latter occurred
returning to "chop wood carry water "
the reflection wold then also reflect infinity as a third ingredient of awareness perception
[self-reflection speaking]
In fact, every post in this thread is self-reflection speaking. What are we to do?
Now we can go on with our self-reflections talking about our self-reflections...
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then i have a question
is everybody talking about the same thing
i would not be so sure every body has arrived at the same conclusions
i am very comfortable with my reflection
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As you 'define' it Michael,
why you see it as a problem ?
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Or to ask you as a teacher,
where is the problem ?
It can't be self reflection.
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But Michael, who is to say others on here have not experienced external pressure on self reflection. I agree a teacher or others are best, but even spirit can apply pressure right? Also i see self reflection more perspective and self importance more what is put forth.
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For example, when i look in a mirror, my mind formulates an idea on image. Typically its false hence why we must break mirror and stand apart from it.
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Have you ever stood between two mirrors, and seen the endless reflections of yourself disappearing into infinity?
The problem is when we are happy with our self-reflection, and we speak as one who knows, one who's view is as equal to anyone else's.
The solution is when we accept we are trapped in the endless reflections, even if we don't fully understand that, and we seek a way to break the trap in any way possible. Not a position of "I know all about that and this is my fabulous opinion."; instead a position of "I accept I'm a prisoner of my own self-image, and I'm ready to try anything to escape - for God's sake, what can I possibly do?"
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god intervened
now sits on my shoulder
now we intervene
so you would choose escape ?
"I" chose alignment
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"I" chose alignment
Well, you're successful there.
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Again, you took the concept way further than what it actually "means" for a person. I "hold up" that it's an energetic configure that actually none of us is into it really here.
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who did zig ?
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It's not of importance.
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Have you ever stood between two mirrors, and seen the endless reflections of yourself disappearing into infinity?
The problem is when we are happy with our self-reflection, and we speak as one who knows, one who's view is as equal to anyone else's.
The solution is when we accept we are trapped in the endless reflections, even if we don't fully understand that, and we seek a way to break the trap in any way possible. Not a position of "I know all about that and this is my fabulous opinion."; instead a position of "I accept I'm a prisoner of my own self-image, and I'm ready to try anything to escape - for God's sake, what can I possibly do?"
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. "
That comes from scriptures, and while I take much with a grain of salt, that scripture is wise. And most interpret the glass as being a mirror. One of the most difficult tasks of the path is to be able to see one'sself honestly. Few have done it. But I would not say only a handful have done it. I did get to Bruce Lee's grave recently, and I believe he did it.
I think its not so simple Michael, that all speak from self-reflection purely. One thing we do have on our side here is awareness. And on this particular path, there are techniques where you can fine-hone your awareness, so you are not as susceptible to the influence of the self-reflection. Now I do think it is better when with another because we do project, and can spot our projections with another human being. But like the quote all the books boil down to don Juan attacking Carlos's self-reflection. This is so key, the main 'goal' of the warrior to do, because it can be so jaded, so convoluted, so full of garbage and fluff that it can cut them off from spirit, from the infinite, but really can affect them from leading an impeccable life.
I know some have ventured here, had their SR's attacked and didnt like it. Thus why the place is so small now, rather quiet, with many perhaps peering into read and would rather be spectators. But nonethless, this is not the only path which offers dealing with the dark glass, and there does seem to be a movement of folks who are working very hard at trying to face the ego trouble head on. So what Im saying is, we do not speak from self-reflection all of the time. We can kind of release ourself from the gaze, perhaps temporarily, we are not as bad as narcissus staring into the pool. We can gain awareness from within and from without, and meet the mirror head on. Now shattering it is more difficult. This part is not easy. And it even is a little scary. But to me, it is important to first master the false and understand it, in all its dark characteristics. Then shattering the mirror is much more easier. It is the task at hand. It is noble. However in reading you, you make it sound impossible. However, perhaps I am more trusting in Spirit, that spirit will put us in the right places, in the right positions, so we can see more clearly in the mirror. Course, this can be an enemy, clarity, but it can be balanced appropriately if the warrior has the right intent.
So we see through a glass darkly. But I dont see anything as totally impossible either. This mirror can - and must - be shattered. And it takes a warrior's spirit to do it.
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Hi E~K, I don't mean to be blunt, and I can see, be aware that I proceed a little fast.
In the end, these are words that you can just read and proceed (your way).
So to start, I don't think shattering any mirror was (or is for us left let's say) any crux. It can be straightened our energy to be free 'literally' of the human form.
That's what comes to mind when you say this:
"But like the quote all the books boil down to don Juan attacking Carlos's self-reflection. This is so key, the main 'goal' of the warrior to do, because it can be so jaded, so convoluted, so full of garbage and fluff that it can cut them off from spirit, from the infinite, but really can affect them from leading an impeccable life."
We take paths with heart, sometimes into/through the bush, and out of it, sometimes bearing great pieces of knowledge.
Pieces coming together.
It's not of a question that you have my support - if I can contribute anyway - into your direction.
I just see it as your path.
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"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. " EK
that's actually a really good quote ;)
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It doesn't matter - spirit will break into only those it chooses, for whatever reason. For the rest of us, it's up to our own effort.
What I am pointing to in vain, is that those who espouse that "I know" don't know, and those who espouse "I desperately want to know" do know.
Here on this forum we have been privileged to be an audience of a very long list of people who are arrogant egotists, who's claim to be on a path of spirit is total bullshit. Just like the old TNF. They believe a few realisations give them the right to close all doors to knowledge except the ones they open themselves. I'm too old to care any more - chose your own path to hell.
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don't be an asshole
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It doesn't matter - spirit will break into only those it chooses, for whatever reason. For the rest of us, it's up to our own effort.
What I am pointing to in vain, is that those who espouse that "I know" don't know, and those who espouse "I desperately want to know" do know.
Here on this forum we have been privileged to be an audience of a very long list of people who are arrogant egotists, who's claim to be on a path of spirit is total bullshit. Just like the old TNF. They believe a few realisations give them the right to close all doors to knowledge except the ones they open themselves. I'm too old to care any more - chose your own path to hell.
Michael, I sense some frustration. :o I understand. I see some have come and gone. Some were ok, and some were not. It really depends on the individual and to me you kind of have to be humble, to counter self-importance. Ego is a very powerful thing. It can take over. Many want to have super powers. We have grown up with superheros. They are all over the movies out here. In truth, sure we can be super, but we also have to know our limitations. Being a Capricorn, I can respect them.
Try not to be frustrated. I am optimistic. I can see potential in others. I also like to give chances first. Then if the person just shuns it all, its on them. Perhaps that is how you have to be when sharing wisdom: pass the plate of food, and they accept or reject. Leave it there, cut the strings and let there be no attachments. But try to not be frustrated. Just remember, SI and ego, and this dastardly self-reflection, are powerful. It can be difficult to overcome.
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don't be an asshole
Yes it was a bit rude, I agree. But I have seen Michael share reems of wisdom with others and work with them, only to spat back in his face afterward. I have seen it numerous times. There is a poison in the world, and sometimes it affects others, sadly so. So I can see some frustration with this. However ultimately he has been called to share, and he has to accept that. That is what he is supposed to do, despite the consequences of his position.
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as have others
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as have others
Very true! What's the saying? "Many are called and few are chosen."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYP85p1JIdY
I can translate the few lyrics if you like, "There where I 've traveled" is called the song.
nick
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYP85p1JIdY
I can translate the few lyrics if you like, "There where I 've traveled" is called the song.
nick
Nice piece of music, and I like the pan-flute effect, but it raises some odd connections - South American flavour, with (is that Greek?) language, about South East Asia.
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Greek band ,
Ethnic but mostly reggae.
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E.K., I see 'this' self reflection to the people around us, they seem to be trapped in it, but nevertheless they are human.
I think the majority lives *there..* but I also see many of us awakening in a fast pace, like it's an order from heaven, so to speak, whether one resists it or even fight ...it.
I can only think of it on collective terms... needless to repeat we have succeeded that awakening of us here.
*
P.S. Is it maybe what is termed as satori ?
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On a personal practice/level, I was reminded of the concept that what we see are the walls of our energy field.
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Here 's another one I like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOH3PzYlI3w
(Not sure about the information in my previous post, maybe it's something I remember incorrectly.. The idea behind it is that the world is a description (as far as the teachings went). Source Castaneda)
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So
The path keeps changing
Evolving
Finding solutions
Even on lifetime line beyond the singular one
Even you Michael may say such things
As though they don't find ears when they do
As though your old ears were closed at point on your path
Meanwhile what needs to be effected is
If you have something to mention
Making sensible connection please do
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If you want to say attacking self reflection
I'd say your chasing a ghost I have seen this method
Endless backwards momentum
In self help new age circles
Personally I have preferred the evolutionary
Approach
As my bent is to effect everything to change
So i ask genuinely
What else is it
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And another thing
The reason I told you to don't be an asshole
When you said build your own road to hell
Is because I have been taken up
And seen 'it' heaven
So your words seemed to me misleading
There fore I question your knowledge
Its not a measuring contest
Do you know the story about Jesus
He came and tried to tell people
Who thought they knew and he was crucified as the story goes
Seems the world hasn't changed much in that respect
And who wants change ?
Present something new and see how many have new ears
I m he who hears
So what do you think you heard
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Hi
digging up an old thread, to give value let's say to the Toltec section and to pin something kind of complicated I believe to comprehend.
Michael said at some point, that "we chose our own hell"
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When my chains of self reflection were cut, after some wondering by my side, in my inexperience, I "played" the hotshot, myself, asking my friend from a distance about heroin in a slang words.. :)
Not to share the whole story, but after I went on trance for a long time, by a suddent move of mine in a middle of a dance, I started going downwards......
.....I found myself litterally in hell. (of unconsciousness).For a long time.
At some point, when I rejoined in the last morning (of the trip) with my friend, he told me he went through heroin in his night.
I have never tasted that drug, but that's another story.
I only finded relevance in "we choose our own hell after the cut of the self reflection chains.
(In a way that somehow after my revelation I formed the path)
Hey, this is something a little unsure of it's meaniing or lacking there off, first by me. :) But anyhow, I engaged and shared it.
Thanks for reading I guess. :D :D :D :D
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This is how it starts
They set the trap tell you your on the road to hell
Because they battle their self reflection in you
Then ask you to wear that vest for them
Then theres no coming back for you in their impatient minds
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Theyre the kind of assholes who get more miserable enjoyment sharing miserable fart noises
Out of telling you what your doing or not
Rather
Than ever explaining what it is the hell they're talking about
Like a person who'd complain about a piece of rubbish on the ground for ten minutes
Instead of picking it up
Complete waste of energy everybodies
They're not interested
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The truth is
You did not create the world although you do
That's a rediculous notion
You are not responsible for every thing you come across as your own creation
Your responsible for your own footprints
Your reflection is the actions you take
This determines what is reflected back towards you
It is accumulative in an energetic sense
As your reflection becomes satisfactorily accepted
Its no longer a shadow
Closing the gap
When you close this distance you can say
Your one with the creator
Even for short time
All these emotions and casting reflections in
Going after self are secondary shadows
Grasping
They might work in some long term sense of some tradition I wouldn't know
In the short term they are not free
They cast more creations
Being aware that your creating reflections in the world
Or discounting that in your mind yet still acting
Does not undo this truth regardless of whether you
Acknowledge the in between of world
Laying
Between us and union
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'running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwN0X8YnWo for you :)
Sorry Michael that I 've a little more active.
All turns to one or zero. :D
......I guess. ;)
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There's a lot of water running here
Rain comes
Slipping between the two views
Power
Humility : because when the mind body tastes power
When it tries to claim it , can elevate further sense of self , which blocks sense of sensing power
Adventure then : curiosity leading and led from
Being , power leads to flight , flight is not from ordinary self ,
Merging views: power is dreamer finding dreamed ,
Curiosity , and humility and power flying together sustained currents ,
Truth : this one means movement towards , truth is the sustained current , truth is awareness ,
Truth is the line which does not go in circles ,
Truth can he witnessed and followed , truth is for the open ear ,
When you hold back the ordinary self for this sublime ,
This current can exceed known expecation or circle ,
Even silence can be truth , as its a honest witness ,
Inspiration is a heart witnessing ,acting being in truth ,
Did you ask the question for answer ?
Or to begin ?
both from same place
Within
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Don't forget this one either
Word:
I dreamed I was crossing a river with a small aboriginal boy ,
As his foot slipped passing up the tree , I behind him let out a laugh ,
He turned and his eyes locked mine fiercely , he let me know piercingly that was an unneccesary emotion ,
Its that kind of truth and word , the emotions and where they spring from ,
This navigation spirit will grab you and draw you and for you ,
Letting go this is receiving
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I agree on "lot's of water" ...
I 'translate' it though, sorry for the inaccurate terming sometimes, as a (continuous) upraise of the energy of the planet.
Actually in the surface ...... hmm...
I have read that after 2010 or something due to solar eruptions the Earth's atmospheric shields... were gradually destroyed... or changed in nature (I don't know).
This 's just an info but has to do with the seeing at least, now almost everyone acquires. :)
I suppose it's a long run........