Topic: From Confucius

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

'When embarking upon the path of revenge, dig two graves.'

[ellenmoksha]

Confucius also said "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle."

So I've never viewed Confucius as a great and wise philosopher. He was quite the bigot, actually.

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

Confucius also said "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle."

So I've never viewed Confucius as a great and wise philosopher. He was quite the bigot, actually.

Don't you find your comment irrelevant?
The first post is about mangling one's soul with revenge - killing oneself spiritually.
It has little to do with Confucius and his views on women.

[ellenmoksha]

No, its not irrelevant. The man wasn't as wise as everyone makes him to be.

http://www.china-travel-tour-guide.com/about-china/confucianism.shtml

In Han dynasty, Confucianism was adopted and other schools suppressed by the Han rulers to consolidate their reign. Then Confucianism flourished and became dominant in Chinese history and culture for almost 2 millenniums. Later it even spread to Korea and Japan and has been influential in the two cultures.

Confucius and his Confucianism had so great an impact on Chinese civilization that you can't imagine how Chinese culture and history would be otherwise.

In the whole 2,000 years, Confucianism has influenced the Chinese attitude toward life, set the patterns of living and standards of social value, established standards for training government officials, and provided the background for Chinese political theories and institutions.

Who is Confucius?

Confucius (551 B.C. - 479 B.C.), founder of Confucianism, was born in today's Qufu, Shandong province. He was named Kong Qiu and styled Zhongni and respected by Chinese as Kong Fuzi or Kong Zi. He was an outstanding thinker and educationist in the late Spring and Autumn period.

He was born poor, however he managed to get good education. It was said that at the age of fifty Confucius finally ascended to Prime Minister of State Lu. However, his political foes conspired to force him to retire at the age of fifty-five. Then he led his disciples to trek around those competing states to advocate his teachings and to advise rulers how to govern. However he was frustrated.

In his late years, he engaged in education, with 3,000 disciples and 72 famous ones according to legend.

Politically, he insisted strict social stratification to maintain public order and contended moral cultivation and opposed tyranny. Main ethic feature he advocated was benevolence, called Ren in Chinese. On the educational theory, he stressed individual aptitude education and combination of learning and thinking, proposing " learning without thinking leads to bewilderment; thinking without learning results in idleness."

Confucianism is a system of philosophy and humanism instead of a religion though it features a few religious characteristics. Confucius and Mencius never intended to set up a religion although they were enshrined in almost everywhere in the nation.

Confucius lived in a time of social and moral chaos, when common values were generally rejected or simply disregarded. In the ethos of uncertainty and fear created by warlords, Confucianism flourished and eventually transformed Chinese society with its values and dominated it for centuries.

Since Confucius saw a sharp difference between the disunity and lack of harmony that existed in this chaotic society as opposed to the harmony and orderliness of nature, his philosophy sought to consciously restore primary set values and norms.

In the Qin dynasty (221B.C. - 206B.C.), Emperor Qin Shi Huang slaughtered Confucian intellectuals and burnt Confucian canons, in order to unite chaotic thoughts to facilitate ruling. It was soon over thrown.

 
In the Han dynasty under the reign of Emperor Wu (140B.C. - 87 B.C.), Confucianism was accepted as state ideology and orthodoxy since Confucianism claimed regality was god-given, and other ideologies were banned to maintain law, social stratification and social order with Confucian values. From then on, other ideologies never got a chance to attempt a comeback.

The reason why Confucianism was dominant was it conformed to needs of the ruling classing. It presented a utopian world for both the ruling class and the common people. Confucianism thinks that ruler be a father to his people and look after their basic needs. It encouraged officials to be loyal to their rulers and refuse to serve the corrupt; advocated absolute authority of a king over his subject, a husband over his wife, and a father over his son; and stressed five constant virtues, namely benevolence (Ren), righteousness (Yi), propriety (Li), wisdom (Zhi) and fidelity (Xin) as basic ethical code.

Confucianism was an androcentrism in which women has no dignity and human rights. According to Confucianism, women had to obey absolutely their fathers when they were not married, and obey their husbands absolutely after in the wedlock and to obey absolutely their sons in their widowhood. Morality, proper speech, modest manner and diligent work were basic virtues they ought have. In case women were barren, unfilial, talkative, jealous, heavily sick, or in adultery and theft, they would be divorced no matter what the reasons were.

Although Confucian is condemned for some of its views, it has branded Chinese and their life.

[ellenmoksha]

So the moral of the story is, Confucius is a huge reason why women suffered years upon years of ignorance, due to this man. In his hopes to create a Utopian society, he saw that by giving women no rights, status, or dignity, they weren't worthy. There was no great Tao or balance in China, and still this oppression exists, because of the 'program' Confucius installed into many people. And men had no problem accepting this philosophical 'dogma' which only harmed China and didn't help it, at least for the other gender...

So does it do away with the wisdom of the quotation? Oh absolutely. Especially since Confucius put to death, any hopes of women having rights in China with his ignorance.

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

Every thinker of this world has been criticised by somebody.
Do you have to say anything of substance about that particular quote?

[ellenmoksha]

There are good reasons to criticise the man. This wasn't a man who got a blow job by an intern. He is the reason many women in China suffered oppression, and still do to this day.

You are free to see him as a great wise man and latch onto the quote. I see an ignorant man and shun the quote because he is the creator of that statement. And you cannot make me change my mind any differently.

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

There are good reasons to criticise the man. This wasn't a man who got a blow job by an intern. He is the reason many women in China suffered oppression, and still do to this day.

You are free to see him as a great wise man and latch onto the quote. I see an ignorant man and shun the quote because he is the creator of that statement. And you cannot make me change my mind any differently.

Ellen, I am talking about the THOUGHT and NOT the MAN.
I could not care less about your attitude regarding Confucius as it is not the subject here.

[ellenmoksha]

I know what you're talking about.

And I reject the thought because of the man. He is not 'wise' enough to educate on revenge.

Besides, I really, really, love The Count of Monte Cristo book. Revenge can serve to teach. But its never perfect.

[ellenmoksha]

Here Erik, go here and post that Confucius quote: http://www.revengelady.com/top_ten_stories.html

[daphne]

I know what you're talking about.

And I reject the thought because of the man. He is not 'wise' enough to educate on revenge.

Besides, I really, really, love The Count of Monte Cristo book. Revenge can serve to teach. But its never perfect.

Whom does revenge serve to teach?

[ellenmoksha]

Hey, revenge stories make the world go round. I like this one:

from the same site:

After three years of being messed around in many ways (I should have walked earlier) I decided to part company with my ex. I arranged to go over to his house, he knew what time I'd be there but again, he decided to 'have a quick pint' on his way back from work. I'd seriously had enough. I called him to tell him I was leaving but he talked me into staying until he got there so that we could sort out the issue of the money that he owed me. Needless to say it was just a muse to keep me there. I told him that I didn't trust him (I suspected he was cheating) and that after three years I deserved better. After hours of his begging and refusing to take the set of keys he gave me we managed to talk things through enough for me to leave on a good note. I told him that I was not going to take any more of his crap. A couple of days later I'd been out with friends and after I'd got home in the early hours something 'made' me got to his home. Surprise, surprise, he was there with another woman, at 2.30 am! Not once did he admit what he was doing and just blatantly lied to my face and told me I was being stupid/immature/unreasonable, etc. As you can imagine, to say I was annoyed was a bit of an understatement. A couple of weeks later, when I'd had time to think things through I decided to take the photo of him in my underwear and print out lots of color copies and place them on every single car in the 2 pubs he frequents! Bearing in mind that this idiot is the most straight laced (all pretend), private man you could meet, he would've been absolutely mortified that everyone he associates with would have seen him in that pose! I still laugh now!

[ellenmoksha]

Whom does revenge serve to teach?

Laughter!

[goggle-eyed dandelion]

I know what you're talking about.

And I reject the thought because of the man. He is not 'wise' enough to educate on revenge.

Besides, I really, really, love The Count of Monte Cristo book. Revenge can serve to teach. But its never perfect.

You could have avoided the waste of space by saying that you think revenge is a good thing. Confucius is absolutely irrelevant here.

How does revenge work with letting go that you said was a good thing to do?
These are your words:

So sure, it can be an enemy in various ways. Its a huge lure, power, I've seen folks get wrapped up in the power for the sake of it, for its a challenge to the ego to not abuse it. Cause an ego with power, who wants to fill up the 'sack' and hold into all it wants to hold onto, can be a dangerous thing. But the sack will get emptied, no matter what. We should know better, the real power is in letting go, deep down its an apparent truth, but many struggle with that, as ego calls it 'giving up.' But that's not what it is. Letting go is a completely different thing, but will agree, has a time and a place for it. You will know when its time and when the call is on to let go - do it.

Revenge is an action based on not letting go.

[ellenmoksha]

Erik, after I state this, I'll post one of the most popular songs on the radio right now.

Nothing is black and white about revenge. Yes, those who react quickly, spaz out, stupid enough to go kill someone in the heat of anger, those are over the top revenges which should be avoided. However, in other cases, a well thought out plan, strategy, of revenge, can serve for a release for another. Revenge is a 'gray' issue, not a black and white, 'always bad, never good' issue. I've known plenty of folks who had their tasty revenge moment, and it did give them back what they needed, because there are times when someone deserves to get their just desserts. And the one who is at the other end of revenge, may actually learn from it.

That is my opinion, take it for what its worth.

Here's a popular song on the radio right now. Why is it? Because many women say "right on" when they hear the song. That's why.

Its a popular song because... revenge can be sweet, and rock absolutely too:



http://youtube.com/watch?v=T56vLzS5i5w

Before He Cheats

Right now he's probably slow dancing with a bleach blonde tramp,
and she's probably getting frisky...
right now, he's probably buying her some fruity little drink cause she can't shoot whiskey...

Right now, he's probably up behind her with a pool-stick, showing her how to shoot a combo...

And he don't know...

That I dug my key into the side of his pretty little souped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seats...
I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...

Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.

Right now, she's probably up singing some
white-trash version of Shania karaoke..
Right now, she's probably saying "I'm drunk"
and he's a thinking that he's gonna get lucky,
Right now, he's probably dabbing on 3 dollars worth of that bathroom polo
And he don't know...

That I dug my key into the side of his pretty little souped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seats,
I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...

Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.

I might've saved a little trouble for the next girl,
Cause the next time that he cheats...

Oh, you know it won't be on me!

Ohh... not on me...
Cause I dug my key into the side of his pretty little souped up 4 wheel drive,
carved my name into his leather seats...
I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights,
slashed a hole in all 4 tires...

Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats.

Ohh.. Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats...

Ohh... before he cheats...