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Author Topic: The Toltecs  (Read 16070 times)

Offline Michael

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The Toltecs
« on: July 25, 2011, 05:13:13 AM »
Most of what I write here is not my own opinion, unless I specify that. This is about a race of people who existed a long time ago. Details have surfaced through scientific research and astral research. We begin to see what this is about, as we place the pieces into pattern. Both kinds of research yield ‘selective’ advice. You have to select a specific approach.

Scientific research lacks the mythical reality, while astral research, for all the reasons those who know me, know what I mean when I say it has to be handled lightly. Ultimately we produce a picture which rings deep inside our collective memories. What I am going to say mixes up all kinds of sources, to get to a specific point. There is something I am trying to articulate, but it can’t be explained bare. This is because I am talking of the Toltecs, and the Red Root Race. Let me explain:

Everyone who frequents these loose networks of forums, is a Toltec. I became fascinated by who the Toltecs were in my youth. Those who became ‘activated’ by the Castaneda books had this experience because of an inner resonance. They are all Toltecs. During my intensive astral research days, I investigated this seriously, and received some surprising answers.

We are speaking of the Red Root Race. They are called ‘red’ because of the colour of their souls - they have flamboyance. They are larger than life, they are leaders in all kinds of activities. They have rich presence, thus they are called Red. By contrast, the White Root Race is flaccid and timid. The Red Root Race was the finest design of all those who progenate a Race or Sub-Race - in fact too good, which is why they didn’t try that again.

I have had numerous dreams on the Toltec. In one dream I was seated before a big screen. They had sat me down to teach me something, as I had been making inquiries. They pointed to the screen, which was divided up into a pattern of shapes, like a map. Each shape was a Race. There was one space left, for the Red Race. However, they turned to me and said, “Unfortunately it doesn’t work. Although there is a space for the Red Race, the Red Race can’t be put into that space. Because its paradigm of existence is fundamentally different to all the other Races. It can’t be categorised. It won’t fit.”

The Red Race had an extra input of alien energy, which created a kind of fire and creativity. This made them mystical. The White Race is fascinated with fame and material wealth - position and possession. The Red Race was highly active by nature to the Second Attention. ‘Mystical’ for them was not the same meaning as it is for the White Race. The Whites see it as sentimental or false - they write poems and make films about it. For the Red Race it was quite a matter-of-fact reality. Their science.

There was a special Sub-Race of the Red Root Race, which was called the Toltecs. They were eventually to grow in such power that today we speak about Toltec and Red Root Race synonymously. The Toltecs had an even bigger dose of alien energy, and became the reddest of the red so-to-speak. They were intensely active in the Second Attention. Their whole civilisation centred around their Oracle.

Every Race has an Oracle, but for some it is stronger and more readily acknowledged. The White Race have a week Oracle, and due to lack of development of the Second Attention, their instinctive perception of their Oracle is dampened. The Toltecs were intensively connected to the central font of wisdom for their Race. But something went badly wrong. Eventually they destroyed themselves, or faded away in other lands.

It is because the Toltecs were naturally mystical, that they could not be placed alongside the other Races - that is what I was told in this dream I relate. I had other dreams in which my personal role was clarified, which is why I bother to break certain of my own rules. I have a deep abhorrence of those who seek to again repeat the mistakes of the Red Race. Normally I take a live-and-let-live approach to life, despite my love of ranting over the catastrophic stupidity of the White Race. But when I see members of the Toltecs ignorantly playing with the forces which destroyed that beautiful Race, I take action.

The Toltecs became infected. I am going to differentiate between the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ Toltecs. But you should know those words did not exist in the Toltec language. Much like the word ‘opportunity’ doesn’t exist in many European languages, so the concepts of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ did not exist among Toltecs. For them it was pragmatic - something either worked or it didn’t. They didn’t care for morality - they were fascinated by the power in the world, and explored it with an obsession not imaginable by people today.

It was the glory of all Race experiments. A fantastic achievement. So why after a very long time, did it all go belly up?

A corruption crept into the Toltec Race. Today this comes down to us in mythical form, but I won’t deal with that aspect just here. The Toltecs fell from their own success. They became so fascinated by the most bizarre discoveries that they lost their way, and became victims of a force which ultimately destroyed them. That is the primary topic of this writing. A battle was waged in the heart of the Toltecs, where the Oracle was challenged, as all centralised systems experience.

Some Toltec sorcerers didn’t want to accept someone else’s prescription. They not only sought the freedom to do whatever they liked, but they also sought power over others. It is said their excesses, especially in their energetic experiments with animal spirits, their obsession with sexual organs and extreme experiences, eventually affronted the Earth itself. So she finally obliterated the land upon which the Toltecs had lived for thousands of years. But this didn’t happen quickly - it disintegrated internally and externally over a long time. Yet at the height of the Toltecs, it was a thing of magnificence. That should not be forgotten in the light of subsequent events.

The good Toltecs migrated to create other centres. Some went to South India, and created the Naga line of priest-magicians. Others went to Egypt, and the history of that is well known now - at least the later, outer manifestations. A lesser group went to Babylon. The darkness followed them there, as it did everywhere else, so they moved to Turkistan, and set up one of the four spiritual centres on Earth for a long time. I suspect this group is still in the thousands of uncharted caves in Turkistan. This is the line that Gurdjieff contacted.

Another group travelled south into what is now called Chile, where the darkness followed. So they went to Christmas Island, and settled there. Finally they faded away.

The bad Toltecs pushed their ruthless powers into all kinds of twists. They didn’t realise they had chosen a force which reflects reality back slightly distorted, instead of direct clarity. Thus they destroyed themselves, or took refuge in arcane corners of the First and Second Attention, where they are trapped in a dead-end. Unfortunately that was the design of the influences which corrupted the Toltecs.

This battle still continues today. After having absorbed Castaneda’s material, I felt both an attraction and repulsion. Some part of me knew immediately both the knowledge and the terror of the Toltec Race. The battle between the smoky mirror and the humming bird.

My revulsion to the horror of the demise of the Toltecs, left me with a revulsion to travelling to Central and South America, no matter how much I was equally attracted. I read all I could find on the Mayans, but even in their fabulous, mysterious characters, I felt a deep aversion from my double - terrible things happened back then - thus I sought a spiritual ‘context’ elsewhere. My own feeling is that the horror of Central and South America’s current and recent violence is connected to the damage the Toltecs did to the etheric energy of that land, in the final phases of their civilisation. Really, you don’t want to know.

How don Juan’s lineage survived intact the Toltec Oracle’s teachings is beyond me. That surfacing, speaking historically from a spiritual perspective, is perhaps the greatest miracle of our species’ evolution. I predict it’s teachings will eventually find their way into the White Race’s spiritual longings, but it will need to be transformed. In its raw state, it is only digestible by Toltecs - White’s are terrified by it’s relentless poison to their world-view.

I found in the Naga line’s heritage everything I required contextually. One of the great impoverishments of Castaneda’s transmission, is the lack of context. We need context - we need a cultural flesh around the bones of raw insight. The lack of context caused many to search out the remnants of Toltec tradition in Central America. Suite yourself, but personally I was disappointed with any ‘Toltec’ follow-up after don Juan’s words. In the spirituality of India, the legacy of the Naga line, I found ample room to place don Juan’s intent, with cultural wealth to fill my life many times over. That is why I have a love of India, but make no mistake - I am a Toltec in India. Yet I have been unsuccessful in tracing the Naga line’s current remnants - they seemed to slide beneath the surface long ago, and leave their knowledge in the etheric layer of the land itself. One day I would like to spend more time in South India to explore this further.

I want to speak more of this critical battle within the Toltecs, and how it has affected the internet forums today. I want to do this because it is my role in the Red Race, and because I feel viscerally the longing of the Red Race, in a world that denies them a voice, or guidance for their spirit.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:34:52 AM by Michael »

Offline Nichi

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 12:52:01 PM »
I want to speak more of this critical battle within the Toltecs, and how it has affected the internet forums today. I want to do this because it is my role in the Red Race, and because I feel viscerally the longing of the Red Race, in a world that denies them a voice, or guidance for their spirit.

Looking forward...

Nikos1

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 09:32:01 AM »

This is interesting..

I feel like a victim somehow in accordance.

I 'm living a terrible battle which is taking my power away and I see no other way.. as honest and moral approach...

-

Hello from Greece on a tough day. -~

I 'm surrendering something, but it seems to take my power away.

I 'll approach honestly, for one life itself knows better, wether I am alive or dead the next moment.

Offline Michael

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The Toltecs II
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 08:00:11 AM »
Don Juan warned about sorcery. He made it clear he was not on that path, and further, that sorcery was a dead end road.

Not that anyone practices sorcery today, except in the old traditions. What we mostly see today are  earnest seekers of meaning, or meaningfulness in life. That is a very different thing to sorcery. However, as soon as we don cloaks of glamour - impressing others with your feathers, then a door is opened back into the past.

If you play at posturing with cardboard cut-outs of the doomed Toltecs, you will draw them. But it’s not like you think. You can’t look them in the eye - direct inquiry is futile. They will reflect back to you a subtle twist of mood. The old sorcerers were morbid, pompous, secretive, conniving, manipulative, and they set a level of self-esteem that makes the pyramids blush.

The modern recipients of the mood of the old sorcerers are into extreme preciousness about their ‘bone-fides’. But there’s no way to look directly into the mood of the sorcerers and disarm it. It reflects something in us, that is why. It has a way of ‘consuming’ our consciousness, with dramatisations of grandeur. We lend ourselves airs in other words. Give ourselves fancy titles and posture in front of others.

Instead, we try to catch glimpses of it. This way we look for the spirit instead of it’s facade. You have to feel this spirit to know what I am talking about. And in order to feel it correctly, you need to have balanced your spiritual world with more than Castaneda’s legacy. I recommend everyone study another spiritual path besides Castaned’s Toltec, to provide balance and stability.

How can you tell if some place has been influenced by those old sorcerers? They are morbid.

You don’t have time to stop and consider, you need to question what are you doing? Why have you been pulled into such a depressing attention venue? Don’t you know what’s out there on offer?

The main issue here is whether you are serious about revealing the mysterious depths of being. The path to this inner revelation requires you be not a dabbler, but ready for the most unpredictable journey. It is no good hanging around spirit-cafes yarning. What is required is to stop, consider the real inner nature of what you have surrounded yourself with, and make a decision to take the hard road.

The material legacied via Castaneda is very questionably laced with this glamorous trap. There are three issues to grasp in order to discern the path and friends you should adopt: sorcery, spirits and alien energy.

Sorcery.

The religious spirituality on offer from the many traditions are basically spiritual mysticism. They are very good at describing the subjective experiences, but poor on structure and steps. Sorcery bypasses all the fumbling of spiritual mysticism. It sets out a clear path of tasks and steps, and wastes little time on wandering around in states of superlatives.

Unfortunately sorcery has a trap. It teaches how to pass the Lion’s Portal before the Portal of Death. You can’t blame sorcery for this - it is all there, you only have to follow the injunctions sincerely. But alas, it is all to easy to skip a few crucial steps, and that is what you see in many online forums around the Toltec tradition today. And that is what happened to the old Toltecs. They redefined the word sorcerer, as did many in other lands, to mean someone to be feared. To be feared is right, because these sorcerers developed powers to gain personal benefit.

The very word ‘sorcery’ now acts as a conduit back to the dark past. By playing with this word in a glamorous way, certain people have set up traps for unwitting seekers in some forums. There is a path that leads to profound knowledge, beyond our flattering self-image, but there are many paths which diverge, and usher the follower into a swamp.

There is only one course of action - avoid anyone who claims or exclaims of sorcery. Not only is it bullshit, it is dangerous to the soul. You will take in elements which can be almost impossible to expel. This is a soul sickness, and it is very contagious. It is not the true path.

The trap is the same as was for the old Toltecs - egoism. The normal religious mystical path deals with the problem of ego right from the start - explaining in no uncertain terms that the quest is hindered by clinging to ego. I use the word ‘ego’ here specifically in the concept of our ‘sense of self’, our identity that we have taken up residence in by the time we discover the spiritual world. The Portal of Death is to destroy this ‘ego’. The Toltecs had ‘red’ egos, and the last thing they wanted was to destroy their fabulous selves. They devised ways to bypass the Death Portal and ride the Lion. Unfortunately the Lion rode them.

Sorcery became a way to have the mystical without giving up the ego. That is why they became dark, morbid and obsessive, as well as ruthlessly carnivorous. That was not the path don Juan taught, and is not the path I walk. Make up your mind quickly, as there is little time once you open the door to sorcery - your soul will be infected by the claws of the old Toltecs, and there is no way you will escape.

Spirits.

Castaneda called them Inorganic Beings, and he touted about meeting them in dreams. This was the consequence for the old Toltecs of having dodged the hard road through the Portal of Death. The spirits which approach you in dreaming are there for a reason. They offer you gifts, for a price. All the old Toltec sorcerers became captives of these spirits. They escaped the First Attention to become imprisoned in the Second. The same will happen to you if you allow these spirits to befriend and visit you in dreaming.

There are many other kinds of spirits who are not interested in taking humans captive, and they are far more worthwhile to know. You can’t blame these ‘loitering’ spirits either - they are simply being who they are. Unfortunately for us, they again represent a divergence of the true path. And again there is little time to choose. Once these spirits align with you in dreaming, they have changed your energy body indelibly.

There is a rule of thumb - anyone who easily makes themselves available in dream or physical life, is most likely out to get something from you. The spirits you need to seek out are those who don’t make themselves easily available. You have to exert considerable effort, and control of your own direction, to reach these spirits.

There is only one way to handle spirits with impunity - pass through the Portal of Death first. Then they can’t trap you because you offer nothing to be trapped by. Spirits also offer inflammation of the ego. They offer excitement, entertainment, pleasure, sense of being special. These are all things you have to forgo if you desire the ultimate.

Once spirits have given you a taste of their Second Attention, it is like heroin in the veins: forever offering what never satisfies. Once these spirits get a hold of your dreaming, there is only one way to rid yourself of their influence: give up dreaming. There are many paths, and dreaming is only one. But if your dreaming has been captured by these spirits, that road is forever closed. It is that serious.

The other spirits that are available for dreaming are of immense benefit - it is these from whom we gain the right alien energy for our task.

Alien energy

There is a misconception around the meaning of alien energy. When we speak of alien, we mean foreign, of extreme difference - something outside our total framework. Nothing we have done in our entire lives can prepare us for what we don’t know, except be it an inner resolve and alertness. Alien comes out of the blue - we have no way to place this experience in our world-view and self-view.

That is the principle, and why acquiring this is so paramount. We are trapped in a mould constructed around us since conception. Everything we know belongs inside that mould. It is our entire ‘view’. Thus nothing deployed inside that mould can be used to break the mould. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy. It’s self is it’s trap, and its trap is itself. This is the task we face - we can’t untie the bag from the inside.

Alien energy comes in with a sent of something totally unfamiliar, and thus becomes a seed in our being. A seed of, ultimately, destruction. The destruction of our mould, which is ourself - all we know. Alien functions as a jemmy, levering open the back window in the darkest night. From the unknown comes an energetic seed, which for our purposes, acts to crack open the mould. So long as we are ready, and we haven’t damaged the inner in the process, we transform into something quite different. This is the beauty of alien energy.

We do really have to go looking for this substance, but I have to warn and implore: choose the right alien energy. It is not true that any alien energy will suffice. We are constructing something of tremendous beauty and power, so we aren’t going to throw mud in the engine unless we are imbeciles. Choose with power. This is the subtext of don Juan’s story of the man in the market meeting a ‘man of knowledge’. He  eventually destroyed the food, and don Juan intimated he could have discovered that food also had power. Why? Because if you ‘know’ and you pick food, you pick with power - every apple is different. ‘Power’ is not just force, it is also the vibration emanating from an alignment between our actions and our deepest spirit. That means love.

People confuse love for another, with the love of a 'person with wisdom'. Love, for the wise, is something we build carefully. By choice on tiny choice we form a new mould, both in astral and in physical. Choose the right food, and the right alien energy. Never, ever, chose on the basis of posturing. You have to know your heart, and then you know many touts are selling horse manure. You learn about your inner being in love, and you learn your inner being is not inside you.

The trick is to taste, and then quickly make the right decision.

The alien energy we need is not that which comes from those spirits which play with our sentience in dreaming - they are bitter apparitions. The whole trick of acquiring alien energy is to know about spirits and which ones hold the most beautiful energy, the most transforming energy for our journey. We are self creating, and it is up to us to choose what goes into our permanence. But we fool ourselves, and choose badly. Over and over in life we choose badly, because we don’t accept responsibility for this task of building our own reality. We put up dodgy walls, and use inferior cement, then to add insult to self-injury, we hire the local Mafia to give us our kicks. Truly, we are stupid people. Once we realise this, we can do something about it, but so long as we believe ourselves to be fine, while inside we know we are fumbling, then we haven’t earned the right to be a sorcerer of the clear mirror - meaning ‘looking in the eye’.

Do what shamans have done since the beginning: go into the wilderness. Go to the spirits of creeks, cliffs, groves, mountain tops, or caves. Go and meet the spirits of that layer which we have forgotten in our urban world. Then meet the spirits of music, words, temples, ideas, humanity, images and so on. Go ‘out’ in your body or perception and find spirits, then ‘capture’ them. Don’t pretend these phantoms in your dreams are what we mean by alien energy. ‘Alien’ has to be set up - it is like mountain climbing: you prepare, then proceed in an adventure to merge with the spirit of the place you have chosen.

The best alien energy to really catch us under our pants, is to visit another very different culture. It is surprising how effective at getting under our skin is another culture. That is also alien energy. But you can do more - do the Gurdjieff trick of quickly penetrating to the core of any culture he came across. He didn’t just pass through like a tourist in day-glow clothes and gaga joggers. He dived for the essence, and soaked it up faster than you could drink your morning tea. He had eagle’s talons. That is how we should be. Diving to the essence is meeting the spirit directly, and seeing the world through its eye. There is so much!

Don’t spend your life in a smelly armpit - get out into the sun and use the body to access alien energy. Become a lover of novelty. Just remember, it’s task is to break the moulds from which we are seeking freedom. In the end, we have to carry that evaporated energy away from the path of adventure, to the critical task of transformation. We can’t keep chasing excitement and drama - we have to give up on entertainment. To follow in the footsteps of those who put aside their fascinations, and took the road to infinity.

“Arise, awake, and learn by approaching the exalted ones, for that path is sharp as a razor’s edge, impassable, and hard to go by, say the wise.” [Katha Upanishad]
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 09:02:00 AM by Michael »

Offline Michael

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The Toltecs III
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 06:06:58 PM »
There is something unique about the Toltecs. I have studied many religious and mystical traditions, and found good quality when looking for it. But I have never heard or seen anything like the clarity of the words of don Juan. I don’t care who wrote or said it, it’s profound. It cuts through in simple statements. And it reveals a philosophy - an abstract reptilian spirit: you die in a second - which directly affects everything about us.

There are other ‘method’ traditions, where it’s not grace alone, like Buddhism, but they still joist for the one target, as do the non-method schools. This target is the primary difference between Mysticism and Toltec.

The no-method, devotional schools still hold to a central pivot - complete identification with the beloved. That is an actual experience, not so much a philosophical tenet - there is little abstract spirit. It is direct ecstatic experience.

The method schools all shoot for the same thing, but they employ techniques - steps and ladders, categorisations, discernment and advice. It’s all to achieve the same objective: what the Hindus call moksha, the Buddhists enlightenment, and the ecstatic raptures of the Christian saints.

In general there is poverty in the tool department - either non-existent or full of embellished ornation. The whole idea ultimately, is to give up all striving, all will, all ambition, all fighting against the world, all control. It is in releasing from the self, that we experience the ‘other’ - other than what we know, outside of us. This is seen as the acme from which there is nothing left to pursue. Washing bowls and carrying sticks. From your epiphany, you simply know the world is floating, so the only thing to do is float with it.

This is not the Toltec path. Not only is it devoid of bullshit embellishments and foggy mirrors, but it sees all that mystical experience stuff very passé. That is just for beginners - the ecstatic experience for Toltecs is not highly valued.

The Toltec is on an endless adventure. There is no final point, no last ledge. They don’t seek to retire either physically or spiritually. They are explorers of the infinite - willing to take great risks, yet following a precise plan. That is the critical difference - Toltecs have a strategy, which regards no aspect as holy. It is pure mechanics, and it is efficacious, nothing else matters. I mean no ‘attitude’ is ascribed. We act in a certain way because that’s the best way to act - simply expected by any sane person. It’s not a fun park, we are playing with death.

The Toltec is unique in that it plays with death in a structured and fruitful way. Other schools simply give you the experience, or ignore it completely. The experience has to be had, in any path, but the spiritual death is typically treated as a transition, in it’s best approach. As in shamanism. However, the Toltec places the death experience within a far greater map. It is the gateway to the universe. Not until we have crossed over at least once, do we know the emptiness of existence, yet the Toltec use this, not as a realisation in final, but as a slingshot.

The scope of the Toltec spirit is sublime, and audacious beyond imagination. It is for spiritual researchers, employing a pattern which is gradually filled in until the result is unavoidable, and the future well prepared for: strength and freedom, vigilance and release.

The Toltec doesn’t attend church, or wander in states of ecstasy. The life of a Toltec is remade from the bottom up - nothing is left to chance. It is a ruthless and unpleasant spirit, who, once she get her hands on you, you are domed to follow. There is no return - she totally disintegrates your life: a murderer of the worst kind. Called Kali in India. A fate of complete commitment to the tracks of her taunting aroma.

Piece by piece, the Toltec builds, then tears down, then builds again. With thoroughness the Toltec achieves competency in a rang of fields, from fighting, to loving, to silence; from owning and being fiercely protective and responsible, to being unfazed by loss, and ready for anything. With being a willing servant, to leading the world. From belonging, to alone.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:28:05 AM by Michael »

Offline travellingmind

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 11:08:51 AM »
Red people or Toltecs either fit in perfectly or not at all? What a destiny/fate has been carved out for them!

What next? Pink people?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 02:45:37 PM by travellingmind »

Offline Michael

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 03:06:06 PM »
According those who investigated the race business, there only ever were seven races, and unlikely to be more for a very long time, if ever. As two got lost, God knows whatever happened to them, the only relief expected is for another sub-race, but I have to say, they're all pink inside.

Offline travellingmind

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 02:08:30 AM »
All pink inside? It seems that as tough it is for Toltecs in this world, is it for others with Toltecs. I still wonder: when they fit in, they are aliens to themselves; when they are familiar with themselves, they are aliens in the world.

Whoever designed them, used an arrow as a model.

breeze

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 09:18:02 PM »
Ah, re-reading this thread.  Thank you M. 

Kal

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most simply for me
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2012, 02:52:12 AM »

Toltecs - men and women of knowledge.

But this/it -knwoledge the term,

goes deep.


Offline Michael

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 06:12:57 AM »
I haven't finished with this topic, but somehow, the world is claiming all my attempts to get back to it. I still want to expand on something absolutely critical that DJ said: about how the third generation of Toltecs opened themselves to the world. This has been left forgotten, but it is of ultimate significance.

Offline nemo

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 10:06:14 PM »
I think I know of what you speak here Michael, he hinted about it a few times and or spoke about it in ways that might not be recognized. If you do not have the time I could give it a shot if you like, and or if it is not correct delete it or modify it as you please. I would essentially expand on the rolling force and tumbling force, and how this is something we can hook into to enhance our awareness or, let it hook us (re first attention intent) and live a normal life.
All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline Michael

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 07:06:12 AM »
This is an open forum Nemo, to a point anyway. You are welcome to offer your insights.

Offline nemo

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 06:37:03 PM »
fyi have not been able to put it into words, and have it express what I wanted in the way that I wanted, and have subsequently lost my train of thought will visit it again sometime.
All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline Michael

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Re: The Toltecs
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2013, 02:14:14 AM »
Nemo? Is that you? Though you had headed out to sea.  :)