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Author Topic: The Foreign Installation  (Read 29749 times)

Offline nemo

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2013, 06:08:11 PM »
Michael can you shed some light on the terms you use. Like beam, we, us, Foreign installation, shadow, death, Path.

The flyers as presented by Castaneda are not restricted to the world of the tonal and are inorganic, meaning they wield influence after death also. To transcend the influence of the flyers then is more the ability for reach consciousness levels outside of their influence.

Also can you give us a few examples of people that have walked the path you speak of with success.

Synchronistically came across this, adding it for interest, the super soldier stuff is intriguing.

Bases 25 Part Two SSS Rachel (Black Goo)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohx7bSeD5bQ
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 06:18:43 PM by nemo »
All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline nemo

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2013, 09:01:06 PM »
In my extended tonal family there is a high school art teacher, whom I have conversations with you guessed it, "art". Recently during one family gathering, I thought I may try to expand the conversation with her into the energetics of art, the state of mind, the artist is in, transfered to the art. Being an artist myself, and a seer, I know I instill in my art an energetic thrust, subtle energies if you like. Like a Stradivarius the maker instills something into it that a copy just cannot duplicate.

One example in the Castaneda books refers to a sorcerer/warrior putting all his ____ into a rock he was holding just before being captured by his enemies. After being found by one of the apprentices the energetics caused some turmoil for him.

Anyway I got the glazed clouded look, and a shrug of disinterest, from her. I know that subject/aspect is of keen interest to me, and if needed could give clear examples of factual data to back up what I was saying. What I am getting at is that she is not wrong and I am not wrong, both points are valid. When I say points I mean assemblage point positions. What has limited her, and therefore what she teaches and instills in others is of the same visual energetic range and view, that is typical of the first attention being and doing.

When we talk about something like the flyers, individual beings may have found different ways to overcome the same obstacle. I have done my best to explain "my" view, my view backed up by my experience. Understanding what I say after I have done my best is really up to the other persons life path and inclinations much like my artist family/friend. (that is directed to you Michael) The flyers though are in the realm of talk outside of the first attention, so anyone grasping accepting it are on their way to another cognitive view.

Seeing energy directly is an avenue to dealing with any energy that imposes itself on another, not just flyers or the Foreign Installation.



  
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 09:10:58 PM by nemo »
All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline Skyflower

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2013, 10:24:06 PM »
In my extended tonal family there is a high school art teacher, whom I have conversations with you guessed it, "art". Recently during one family gathering, I thought I may try to expand the conversation with her into the energetics of art, the state of mind, the artist is in, transfered to the art. Being an artist myself, and a seer, I know I instill in my art an energetic thrust, subtle energies if you like. Like a Stradivarius the maker instills something into it that a copy just cannot duplicate.




  


Aah, yes! I do this, with my poetry and artwork, but also with my cooking!

Offline Michael

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2013, 11:01:09 PM »
Nice tree nemo. As for instilling a particular kind of energy into art buy the artist - I have taken that for granted for a long time, and indeed most artists I have known would agree, albeit in their own words and concepts - not mine. The difference is important though, because I feel artists have vacated their responsibility ... but that's another subject.

We should realise that the concepts of Foreign Instillation or flyer, along with so many concepts DJ introduced, are simply ways of speaking about things which do not fit within that framework of language or 'idea'. We have to create a handle to assist us in dealing, but there are many handles and we should never believe the handle is the thing. DJ used multiple ways of talking about the same thing - everything lead to the same point, but the pathways were not only arbitrary, they also had significance in the fuller understanding.

One of the problems with speaking of the FI is that our language itself is owned by the FI. So I use words and terms to come to comprehension from different angles, not all analytical. Thus the word 'owned' is a metaphor, not an accurate black-letter term that asks to be defended on the basis of grammatical rigour. It is not possible to speak of the FI objectively, because we are using a form of understanding exchange that has long ago become infused by the intent of the FI. However, I will attempt to say some things, so long as you realise these are only indicators for the same kind of receptivity nemo speaks of about in awareness of energy in art.

The FI is not a gadget implanted in some part of the brain. It could be better thought of as a hue. It is an underlying direction of intent in the whole way humanity perceives the world, and it has been different in different cultures. It suffuses our sense of who we are thoroughly, such that to attack it is to attack our very being, or so we deeply believe.

It set up a condition in our mind which activates the emotional centre of the mind - not the emotional centre of our body itself. There is a sub centre of each of the major components of our being, in each of the other major components. Thus there an emotional sub-centre in the mind, which becomes triggered by thoughts and 'bundles' of thoughts, which we could call complexes or patterns.

The FI filters through our entire mental processes to arrange a condition whereby we become emotionally charged. This charged emotion is emanated out of us - that is the important thing to realise. Emotions are like energetic light that floods out of us. It is not too big a step to realise that this discharge can be food for others, which is why we love and are energised by good entertainment. But the FI is designed to emphasise dark emotions - heavy, brooding, fearful etc. Not necessarily directly - that would be too simple. It set us up with the attraction to uplifting emotions, but with the underlying trajectory of them turning sour. It is very clever. The end result is a suffusion of depressive energy throughout our own being and into the world around us. The flyers are a way of describing the spirits who like to feed of this anguish - they are anguish spirits, and their effect is to drag us down and make us heavy.

Because the FI has embedded itself in our mind so effectively, it can not be eradicated. To do that would be to have to rebuild the mind from scratch, and would also separate us from our fellow humans in an autistic way that would be deleterious for our wellbeing. It is too late to eradicate. But it can be repositioned.

To reposition the FI, we have to break it's command. This command is like a beam of current that we are totally transfixed into - it is our identity. It is not the only beam option, but while we are transfixed within it, it is the only option - that is the nature of 'beams': they are each total universes in themselves.

To break the command of the FI we have to break the beam of our identity. DJ also spoke about this from a different angle when we talked of breaking our reflective shell. He also spoke of it when talking about detachment, when he explained no matter how hard to try to develop detachment, it can only come as a consequence of breaking the shell. Breaking the shell is just another way of describing breaking the beam. Both mean death.

It means death because there are two deaths - the perception of death as we approach it, and the actual death of the body. Adepts separate out these two, and have the audacity to attempt the first death while putting off the second. Which can't always work, because it's only by approaching the second death that we are able to deal with the first, otherwise it's just another mental game. This is a very sophisticated manoeuvre, but because it is actually written into another beam, which can cross our dominant beam, many people fall into this separation by sheer accident, which can be a good or bad thing for them depending on how they are able to put themselves back together, like Humpty Dumpty couldn't. Adepts of the Path - the path to realisation - know what they are doing, so are better placed to know how to rebuild their identity: they come this way by intent, not accident.

Once the beam of our identity has been snapped, the hue of the FI is also shattered. We don't need to root it out, we just need to grasp this opportunity to place it in our tool bag along with all our other tools, to be used when we decree, instead of its decree.

But the shattering of the FI hue, and replacement with a different direction that we 'face', a different beam, means that the flyers are not able to drink our milk like they used to, because they now find it has a flavour that is distasteful for them - it lacks that morbid anguish flavour, even when it is sad and fearful. The emotions become fresh, whereas the flyers prefer stale solar-plexus energy.

I could say a lot more about the taste the flyers prefer, because it has become an experience of considerable fascination for me. But that's for another time. One thing I will say, is that the energy generated by the FI is vicious. You can talk about it to almost everyone, in the abstract, like we are doing here, but as soon as you name it when it is activated, be ready for a viscous assault back at you. This assault is viscous by dint of the very fact it has the full backing of the person's soul. To attack the FI in another is to attack their soul, which is why the remedy needs to be so severe. (Rudolf Steiner has some good lectures on the death of the soul as a necessary gateway on the Path. These ideas I speak of are common in every serious tradition.)

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2013, 12:46:44 AM »
 
 :) that was a moth.

So you know.

... :P...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:24:22 AM by Nikosv »

Offline nemo

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2013, 12:17:12 PM »
Nice post Michael, I understand it completely.

Looks like we have come down on the same issue, with slightly differing views, terms and experience. The Toltecs called this topic the topic of topics. When DJ stated that they (the flyers)give us their minds, it is that one thing that is perplexing to the being grappling with the enormity of what really is possession.

How to recognize the self and then distance what is essentially two minds. Will add more later just a quick thanks.

All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline Endless~Knot

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2013, 02:47:29 PM »
It's probably safe to say the flyer mind becomes our mind, and we have to work at removing it. I believe leading a spiritual life can do this.
“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2013, 06:28:06 PM »
It's probably safe to say the flyer mind becomes our mind, and we have to work at removing it. I believe leading a spiritual life can do this.

I like the idea of changing assemblage point positions in respect to this.

The idea of love also -even if it doesn't fit in the current energies let's say expressed. It remains a key, doesn't it.

heart ...energy. Maybe the best source of Patience.

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2013, 06:55:16 PM »
don't know if I spell correctly ...

...but ...

I see the new leo cycle striken fiercely.

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2013, 08:30:35 PM »

When you try your best but you don't succeed
When you get what you want but not what you need
When you feel so tired but you can't sleep
Stuck in reverse

And the tears come streaming down your face
When you lose something you can't replace
When you love someone but it goes to waste
Could it be worse?

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

And high up above or down below
When you're too in love to let it go
But if you never try you'll never know
Just what you're worth

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

Tears stream down your face
When you lose something you cannot replace
Tears stream down your face
And I

Tears stream down your face
I promise you I will learn from my mistakes
Tears stream down your face
And I

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And I will try to fix you

Coldplay - Fix you

Offline Endless~Knot

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2013, 10:03:34 PM »
I like the idea of changing assemblage point positions in respect to this.

The idea of love also -even if it doesn't fit in the current energies let's say expressed. It remains a key, doesn't it.

heart ...energy. Maybe the best source of Patience.

I posted a quote on the assemblage point today. I was pondering on this, the ability to see into other worlds.

Being impeccable is quite distasteful to the fliers, also definitely following a path with a heart.
“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee

Offline nemo

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #71 on: August 07, 2013, 11:27:15 PM »
So lets see if we can bring the issue of the flyers to an irreducible truth. It has been my experience that when descriptions get intricate in an attempt to bring clarity, often the terms used fall short for the receiver in an overwhelm, of it does not compute.

For instance even if someone has tied a shoelace the description of tying the knot is not so easy to comprehend in the written word, then someone reading that same description never having tied a bow, can even get more lost. We can see what the author of the words is saying when we can conjure up a visual of what we have done and follow along in the description. Not so for those outside the experience.

Much like my family member that did not understand me when I brought up the energetics of art Michael and Skyflower had no difficulty in grasping what I said because that was part of their view.

What is that view? Understanding/seeing energy, directly. So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.

 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 12:40:05 AM by nemo »
All that is not based on truth shall crumble and fall, much that crumbles and falls was once truth --- nemo

Offline Michael

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2013, 01:37:50 AM »
So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.

Absolutely. When I am with someone who is 'in the grip' of a flyer, the overwhelming experience for me is the gap in awareness of what is actually happening. I'm convinced it would be significantly easier if the other person could actually see/sense the reality - hidden for them and patently obvious for me. This 'gap' has been another matter of examination for me, as, if I am able to release myself from the pain of identification, or the pain of wanting to help but being totally unable due to the no-basis of shared awareness, then something transformative happens for me. This gap has a powerful energetic fillip to awareness, which I was first alerted to by Gurdjieff, but once I succeeded in my 'allowing' of the gap, I discovered something extraordinary happens to me, which I don't think I can explain.

However, being in the grip of the FI is far more difficult to see. It is often only after I have seen the consequences of the flyers in attendance, that I am able to trace back as to how the FI created the situation in the first place. This is no easy task. In this case, although ignorance of the host is still the critical thing, it is quite a different experience for me to witness, than with the flyers - one is subtle while the other is obvious.

Then comes the problem of self-observation, when I know I am in the grip of the flyers, but not always able to release. That for me has been a growing capacity over the years. I can still recall one particular occasion, in which something snapped inside me, and I alone of everyone in the event, dropped completely out of the emotion, and was able to easily resolve the tension that was building. This is not always possible, or easy.

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2013, 02:42:47 AM »


Quote
Being impeccable is quite distasteful to the fliers, also definitely following a path with a heart.


yes, it is said that even death baffles and may pause to impeccability. ;D (An impeccable life)

Kal

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Re: The Foreign Installation
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2013, 03:14:55 AM »
So would the first irreducible truth about flyers be that they survive, because of the ignorance of the host? For a start.


Yes,
certainly a truth.