Soma
Tools of the Path => Action [Public] => Topic started by: Nick on April 23, 2009, 11:23:51 PM
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I don't know if anyone else has already posted, this, tried doing a quick search but I have to leave for work and the darn search engine was moving too slow.
So hear goes a new Al Gore talk:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/al_gore_s_new_thinking_on_the_climate_crisis.html
See you folks later, will check back.
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Nice talk! Was it given before or after the point of irreversible changes?
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the point of irreversible changes?
What is this?
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What is this?
The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere beyond which the catastrophic climate change is inevitable.
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The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere beyond which the catastrophic climate change is inevitable.
Become insignificant, find your ......... whatever it is. Non engineer figures?
Of course it is about radical change, but also re-birth.
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Become insignificant, find your ......... whatever it is. Non engineer figures?
Of course it is about radical change, but also re-birth.
I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.
Against that background Al looked really funny with all his passionate 'it's the greatest challenge we could wish for' rhetoric. :D It looked like sinking Titanic where people are so excited and keep shouting each other how very challenging it is and how very proud they could be for being on Titanic that night...instead of getting out or making a raft or doing whatever sound thing there remains to do.
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I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.
Perhaps the only good with the global financial crisis is that it reduce pollution worldwide with, let us guess - 5 %.
If something significant should happen to change the ongoing climate crisis we would probably have to reduce CO2 pollution with 50% - from Now! Add to this a stop of outfishing, deforestation and other robbery ... but in many areas this is too late. And if it is too late in many areas - we are in a bad situation all of us.
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I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.
Against that background Al looked really funny with all his passionate 'it's the greatest challenge we could wish for' rhetoric. :D It looked like sinking Titanic where people are so excited and keep shouting each other how very challenging it is and how very proud they could be for being on Titanic that night...instead of getting out or making a raft or doing whatever sound thing there remains to do.
To my knowledge and understanding the point of irreversible changes has not yet been met. Indeed scientists continue to seek solutions, and most seem to feel even if we have reached such a tipping point it would only make more sense to make concerted effort to improve the environment.
I see something else going on as well, a return to nature. If it happens as I imagine it might, the return to nature will take place in new ways, as humans rebuild nature in new ways.
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To my knowledge and understanding the point of irreversible changes has not yet been met.
That's the trickiest part. There's a huge intertia. We start cutting emissions now - they'll have a meaningful effect in 20 years. That's why some researchers say already that regardless of what we do now we'll easily go beyond 500 ppm and that means stuff we cannot imagine.
In a way, it makes little difference whether we will or will not go beyond 500 ppm. The destruction we wreck is so very multifaceted that bright future is yet another illusion being toyed with.
We live in Titanic that is shaking. Was it an iceberg? Some worry about it staying afloat and issue calls to keep it afloat, some are lethargic, some are optimistic - Titanic is supposed to be unsinkable after all.
Others, who trust their inner recognition, do meaningful stuff.
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The problem is multifaceted as is everything, and it is a big problem with huge inertia. If there is a solution to it will probably not come from one direction or from one unified force, but from several complimentary forces. The work people like us do is one kind of work that could perhaps have a positive impact on the rest of the world in various ways. Others will fight the problem like Al Gore and various scientists. Some want to reengineer things at a nano level. There are many multifaceted solutions.
The global environmental crisis can be used to ask ourselves to consider the lives of plants and animals as being interconnected with our own forcing us to see their lives as valuable as well. Leading to the positive valuation of life itself. When life itself becomes truly precious; and this preciousness is understood, our understanding of what we are, spiritual beings, becomes clear and then if enough people see this perhaps humanity is set on a new path.
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The problem is multifaceted as is everything, and it is a big problem with huge inertia. If there is a solution to it will probably not come from one direction or from one unified force, but from several complimentary forces. The work people like us do is one kind of work that could perhaps have a positive impact on the rest of the world in various ways. Others will fight the problem like Al Gore and various scientists. Some want to reengineer things at a nano level. There are many multifaceted solutions.
The global environmental crisis can be used to ask ourselves to consider the lives of plants and animals as being interconnected with our own forcing us to see their lives as valuable as well. Leading to the positive valuation of life itself. When life itself becomes truly precious; and this preciousness is understood, our understanding of what we are, spiritual beings, becomes clear and then if enough people see this perhaps humanity is set on a new path.
:-*
Nicely said. Good to see you, Nick!
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Thanks Nai. Just watched that - I see it was March 2008 I think.
He is still pushing the view that the world can fix this problem.
I don't deny that it is possible, but I don't see it happening on the scale and in the levels necessary.
I feel Al is one of the leaders in awareness raising, and I wish them all power, as God knows, it is required.
We are dealing with the future, and we can't predict the future with any certainty - meaning we do not know what may happen to change everything. A year ago in Australia, the focus was on fiscal restraint - inflation was rising, the economy over-heating, and the belts had to be tightened. Money was not available for the new left-wing government to spend on social programs. In a matter of six months the tables switched completely, and money went out the door in floods to heat up the economy. Although still not on social programs, as they would take too long to distribute the stimulus funds.
The whole game plan can change very swiftly in this universe.
However what Al did not cover in that particular talk, was the issue Juhani was referring to - the number of Earth processes which have a long delay line, and thus what has happened already cannot be altered to avert the consequences. The consequences are now set in motion and come they will, unless something drastic cuts across the whole planet's trajectory.
We are playing a mighty high risk game here.
But Al mentioned something critical - changing the political paradigm. Politicians respond to public opinion, and public opinion is affected by more than obvious influences. There are deeper currents in the being of our species, and in the being of this planet. It is those currents that we here are in a perfect position to awaken to.
The problem with selective cultures of spiritually aware people, is that historically they have often been slaughtered by barbarians who came over the hill while the enlightened ones were meditating. Follow Mohamed by all means, but tether your donkey first, as the old Sufi saying goes.
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The consequences are now set in motion and come they will, unless something drastic cuts across the whole planet's trajectory.
The Geomagnetic Apocalypse — And How to Stop It (http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/2012storms.html)
Sun Often "Tears Out A Wall" In Earth's Solar Storm Shield (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themis/news/themis_leaky_shield.html)
So in 2012, when the solar cycle reaches it's peak again, we'll have a hole in our magnetic shield letting through 10-20 more particles. According to the first study "it's an astonishingly bad set of coincidences".
Time to make plans.
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Time to make plans.
For what - A nice Sun burn?
(Sorry but even I are about to get a bit pessimistic.)
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What do you all think about the infamous "kill shot"?
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What do you all think about the infamous "kill shot"?
I only bring it up because such a scenario has nothing to do with the activities of humans.
Hard to find anything online about it without a lot of hype and self-aggrandizement by the man who put it out there -- a remote viewer named Ed Dames. You can buy his dvd, heheh.
But I've heard him in several interviews, so I'll just tell you:
the "kill shot" is a solar flare which literally and physically crosses earth's orbit. He made the prediction during a turbulent time for solar flares here, in 2003, wherein solar flare activity was downright unprecedented. According to the scenario he allegedly remote-viewed, the tongue of the flare actually hits here, killing 2 billion people.
Comparable events would be asteroid-hits, unless we do learn how to blast them out of the sky. It wouldn't be that we caused the asteroid to hit, though.
Long story short, in my opinion, it's all beyond our control. Could be that some massive visualization would be useful, if you trust the wisdom and foresight of those groups who could be that powerful. Could be...
But what about earth's and the sun's own processes, and a natural trend in biology for cutting back on overpopulation? What if the CO2 emissions in the first place were our subconscious responses to that trend?
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But what about earth's and the sun's own processes, and a natural trend in biology for cutting back on overpopulation?
8)
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I only bring it up because such a scenario has nothing to do with the activities of humans.
Hard to find anything online about it without a lot of hype and self-aggrandizement by the man who put it out there -- a remote viewer named Ed Dames. You can buy his dvd, heheh.
But I've heard him in several interviews, so I'll just tell you:
the "kill shot" is a solar flare which literally and physically crosses earth's orbit. He made the prediction during a turbulent time for solar flares here, in 2003, wherein solar flare activity was downright unprecedented. According to the scenario he allegedly remote-viewed, the tongue of the flare actually hits here, killing 2 billion people.
Comparable events would be asteroid-hits, unless we do learn how to blast them out of the sky. It wouldn't be that we caused the asteroid to hit, though.
Long story short, in my opinion, it's all beyond our control. Could be that some massive visualization would be useful, if you trust the wisdom and foresight of those groups who could be that powerful. Could be...
But what about earth's and the sun's own processes, and a natural trend in biology for cutting back on overpopulation? What if the CO2 emissions in the first place were our subconscious responses to that trend?
If and when and how, it doesn't matter. What's important is if we are prepared. Individually.
The night after the large earthquake, everyone I talked with said that they slept with their clothes readied next to the bed. In case the earthquake hits again and they have to leave the house in a hurry. I'm pretty sure at the end of the week they turned back their normal lives.
Instead we should always be ready to leave. We should always have a plan.
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Thats what that movie Knowing was about, a huge solar flare that wipes oout everyone on earth, except for light beings who cart others away on spaceships who 'heard the call' like the little kids. It was pretty scary cause its true, huge solar flare hit earth - ouch - we burn up.
I only bring it up because such a scenario has nothing to do with the activities of humans.
Hard to find anything online about it without a lot of hype and self-aggrandizement by the man who put it out there -- a remote viewer named Ed Dames. You can buy his dvd, heheh.
But I've heard him in several interviews, so I'll just tell you:
the "kill shot" is a solar flare which literally and physically crosses earth's orbit. He made the prediction during a turbulent time for solar flares here, in 2003, wherein solar flare activity was downright unprecedented. According to the scenario he allegedly remote-viewed, the tongue of the flare actually hits here, killing 2 billion people.
Comparable events would be asteroid-hits, unless we do learn how to blast them out of the sky. It wouldn't be that we caused the asteroid to hit, though.
Long story short, in my opinion, it's all beyond our control. Could be that some massive visualization would be useful, if you trust the wisdom and foresight of those groups who could be that powerful. Could be...
But what about earth's and the sun's own processes, and a natural trend in biology for cutting back on overpopulation? What if the CO2 emissions in the first place were our subconscious responses to that trend?
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Follow Mohamed by all means, but tether your donkey first, as the old Sufi saying goes.
A lot to what you said there, M.
You mention drastic cuts across the whole world's trajectory, and I don't think it is enough yet, but a lot of useful changes seem to be occurring all ready. Even in my little back water town I'm seeing more and more environmentally conscious people coming into the grocery store I work, the BYOB movement is kicking it off around the U.S. The store I work at has never had more than a couple of organic, nature and health food items but now I see that selection growing. So public opinion is being swayed. China is even aiming to cut back their use of plastic. Hopeful if the U.S. and China do it others will fallow suit. But, the U.S. needs to redefine what it means to be a superpower in the world to being an environmental superpower, and I think that could take a long time to sink in for everyone. Obama got the G20 on his side, it still stands to see whether or not everyone will continue to work as a team, but I think this is a sign that Al's wish for a politic shift is occurring.
Of course even the whole world working together could easily just screw themselves over without even meaning to, all our good intentions could backfire on us. Definitely a high risk game, but to do or not to do anything?
Our attempts may not even work since we cannot with certainty predict the future. Still somethings can be reasonably guesstimated, we aren't totally blind to the future, or we wouldn't even know that there is problem or be able to predict that it is likely to get worse. Also we know that even though the game plan can change pretty quickly we have good reason to believe it isn't likely at this point to change for the better without some significant help. If we are not totally blind to the future it seems to me we could even find a way to improve our lens through which we attempt to see the future.
There are people doing some awesome things, like William Mcdonough with Cradle to Cradle design, Cameron Sinclair with open source architecture, Saul Griffith is designing kites that collect solar and wind energy more efficiently than current methods. Kamal Meattle found out how to clean the air inside your house or work space by placing three plants in certain spots. The areca palm (living room), Mother in laws tongue (bedroom; turns CO2 into Oxygen at night), Money plant (specialist plant;removes formaldehyde and other volatile chemicals). Supposedly these three plants, if you have the right amount of them they will produce all the clean fresh air you need to survive even if you are in an air tight container with them. I just read in the paper today that various Industrial leaders are now working hand in hand with environmentalists. Then you've got the team meeting at the 2009 State of the World Forum. And this is just a very small sampling of what all good is going on out there as we speak.
So yes, fallow Mohamed but tie the donkey first. To sit back and do nothing esp. because of some sort of "warriors nihilism" seems like a waist even if we are properly tending to our own salvation. There seems to be this mind set of the world is pretty much doomed so lets tend to ourselves. Which isn't really bad, it should be the priority to tend to yourself, in the end I face my fate alone, but it seems even our work on ourselves could fail if we don't take the rest of the world's plight into consideration and into our actions.
The environmental crisis has people thinking about the earth, thinking about nature, thinking about their environment, thinking about their inevitable death, and thinking about their own survival as if it is linked to that of everyone else...which it is. I see some potential here for a positive change in the consciousness of the world's people, don't you?
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I see some potential here for a positive change in the consciousness of the world's people, don't you
:)
I do, too.
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Play a role in change?
Yes. Why not?
There is much to learn, and much to gain by playing a part in this extraordinary drama.
That is for the individual - for us, and there is more to say on that front ... but for later.
On the macro scale, I suggest we who live in tiny places and eke out our humble living, have no idea the game plan of those who work with wealth and power - they are in another world altogether, and they have no interest in relinquishing their structural position.
These days their position is neatly ensconced within the framework of Democracy itself. They have it worked out. Right down to the very quick thrown opinions we toss about believing we are free thinkers.
I cannot see the direction of destruction changing, with Democracy.
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Democracy is not the problem. GREED is, and greed isnt connected only to democracy. Its a world problem.
The dalai lama is for democracy. He knows its strengths, like freedom. Shit like communism where you have people who will imprison you cause you speak out about your government - you wanna live like that?
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Communism itself is not the problem - there are numerous democratically elected Communist governments - ie it can exist in a multi-party system.
Totalitarian systems are a problem - there is no doubt about that. But that in no way ameliorates the concern across the world currently that Democracy has failed the Global Warming problem.
The problem is that in an emergency, committees are ineffectual. Especially those which need public support to act, when the public is vulnerable to misinformation and ignorance.
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::)
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Democracy is not the problem. GREED is, and greed isnt connected only to democracy. Its a world problem.
In Mayan terminology it is said that humanity now has to pass the "House of the Hungry Jaguars" before any transformation toward improvement can occur.
We talk about corruption, we talk about the mob and we talk about the financial sector and nations.
Dead end street in my opinion. There will not be less greed. So the hungry Jaguars will eat us.