Author Topic: How Dare We Be Optimistic  (Read 380 times)

Offline Nick

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How Dare We Be Optimistic
« on: April 23, 2009, 11:23:51 PM »
I don't know if anyone else has already posted, this, tried doing a quick search but I have to leave for work and the darn search engine was moving too slow.

So hear goes a new Al Gore talk:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/al_gore_s_new_thinking_on_the_climate_crisis.html


See you folks later, will check back.
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

erik

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 11:52:43 PM »
Nice talk! Was it given before or after the point of irreversible changes?

tangerine dream

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 12:18:56 AM »
the point of irreversible changes?

What is this?


erik

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 02:10:58 AM »
What is this?

The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere beyond which the catastrophic climate change is inevitable.

Jahn

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 05:00:14 AM »
The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere beyond which the catastrophic climate change is inevitable.

Become insignificant, find your ......... whatever it is. Non engineer figures?
Of course it is about radical change, but also re-birth.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 05:40:41 AM by Jamir »

erik

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 06:33:17 AM »
Become insignificant, find your ......... whatever it is. Non engineer figures?
Of course it is about radical change, but also re-birth.

I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.

Against that background Al looked really funny with all his passionate  'it's the greatest challenge we could wish for' rhetoric.  :D It looked like sinking Titanic where people are so excited and keep shouting each other how very challenging it is and how very proud they could be for being on Titanic that night...instead of getting out or making a raft or doing whatever sound thing there remains to do.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 06:35:16 AM by 829th »

Jahn

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 04:29:28 AM »
I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.

Perhaps the only good with the global financial crisis is that it reduce pollution worldwide with, let us guess - 5 %.

If something significant should happen to change the ongoing climate crisis we would probably have to reduce CO2 pollution with 50% - from Now! Add to this a stop of outfishing, deforestation and other robbery ... but in many areas this is too late. And if it is too late in many areas - we are in a bad situation all of us.

Offline Nick

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 04:54:53 PM »
I played with a thought that all has been pre-determined - CO2 concentration is way too high and is getting higher for us to change anything.

Against that background Al looked really funny with all his passionate  'it's the greatest challenge we could wish for' rhetoric.  :D It looked like sinking Titanic where people are so excited and keep shouting each other how very challenging it is and how very proud they could be for being on Titanic that night...instead of getting out or making a raft or doing whatever sound thing there remains to do.

To my knowledge and understanding the point of irreversible changes has not yet been met. Indeed scientists continue to seek solutions, and most seem to feel even if we have reached such a tipping point it would only make more sense to make concerted effort to improve the environment.

I see something else going on as well, a return to nature. If it happens as I imagine it might, the return to nature will take place in new ways, as humans rebuild nature in new ways.
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

erik

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 05:31:57 PM »
To my knowledge and understanding the point of irreversible changes has not yet been met.

That's the trickiest part. There's a huge intertia. We start cutting emissions now - they'll have a meaningful effect in 20 years. That's why some researchers say already that regardless of what we do now we'll easily go beyond 500 ppm and that means stuff we cannot imagine.

In a way, it makes little difference whether we will or will not go beyond 500 ppm. The destruction we wreck is so very multifaceted that bright future is yet another illusion being toyed with.

We live in Titanic that is shaking. Was it an iceberg? Some worry about it staying afloat and issue calls to keep it afloat, some are lethargic, some are optimistic - Titanic is supposed to be unsinkable after all.

Others, who trust their inner recognition, do meaningful stuff.

Offline Nick

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 11:21:16 PM »
The problem is multifaceted as is everything, and it is a big problem with huge inertia. If there is a solution to it will probably not come from one direction or from one unified force, but from several complimentary forces. The work people like us do is one kind of work that could perhaps have a positive impact on the rest of the world in various ways. Others will fight the problem like Al Gore and various scientists. Some want to reengineer things at a nano level. There are many multifaceted solutions.

The global environmental crisis can be used to ask ourselves to consider the lives of plants and animals as being interconnected with our own forcing us to see their lives as valuable as well. Leading to the positive valuation of life itself. When life itself becomes truly precious; and this preciousness is understood, our understanding of what we are, spiritual beings, becomes clear and then if enough people see this perhaps humanity is set on a new path. 
"As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya..."
 -Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism

tangerine dream

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2009, 12:33:09 AM »
The problem is multifaceted as is everything, and it is a big problem with huge inertia. If there is a solution to it will probably not come from one direction or from one unified force, but from several complimentary forces. The work people like us do is one kind of work that could perhaps have a positive impact on the rest of the world in various ways. Others will fight the problem like Al Gore and various scientists. Some want to reengineer things at a nano level. There are many multifaceted solutions.

The global environmental crisis can be used to ask ourselves to consider the lives of plants and animals as being interconnected with our own forcing us to see their lives as valuable as well. Leading to the positive valuation of life itself. When life itself becomes truly precious; and this preciousness is understood, our understanding of what we are, spiritual beings, becomes clear and then if enough people see this perhaps humanity is set on a new path. 

 :-*

Nicely said.  Good to see you, Nick!

Offline Michael

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2009, 02:42:10 AM »
Thanks Nai. Just watched that - I see it was March 2008 I think.
He is still pushing the view that the world can fix this problem.
I don't deny that it is possible, but I don't see it happening on the scale and in the levels necessary.
I feel Al is one of the leaders in awareness raising, and I wish them all power, as God knows, it is required.

We are dealing with the future, and we can't predict the future with any certainty - meaning we do not know what may happen to change everything. A year ago in Australia, the focus was on fiscal restraint - inflation was rising, the economy over-heating, and the belts had to be tightened. Money was not available for the new left-wing government to spend on social programs. In a matter of six months the tables switched completely, and money went out the door in floods to heat up the economy. Although still not on social programs, as they would take too long to distribute the stimulus funds.

The whole game plan can change very swiftly in this universe.

However what Al did not cover in that particular talk, was the issue Juhani was referring to - the number of Earth processes which have a long delay line, and thus what has happened already cannot be altered to avert the consequences. The consequences are now set in motion and come they will, unless something drastic cuts across the whole planet's trajectory.

We are playing a mighty high risk game here.

But Al mentioned something critical - changing the political paradigm. Politicians respond to public opinion, and public opinion is affected by more than obvious influences. There are deeper currents in the being of our species, and in the being of this planet. It is those currents that we here are in a perfect position to awaken to.

The problem with selective cultures of spiritually aware people, is that historically they have often been slaughtered by barbarians who came over the hill while the enlightened ones were meditating. Follow Mohamed by all means, but tether your donkey first, as the old Sufi saying goes.

Offline Muffin

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 11:06:28 PM »
The consequences are now set in motion and come they will, unless something drastic cuts across the whole planet's trajectory.

The Geomagnetic Apocalypse — And How to Stop It
Sun Often "Tears Out A Wall" In Earth's Solar Storm Shield
Sun Often "Tears Out A Wall" In Earth's Solar Storm Shield

So in 2012, when the solar cycle reaches it's peak again, we'll have a hole in our magnetic shield letting through 10-20 more particles. According to the first study "it's an astonishingly bad set of coincidences".

Time to make plans.
"The result of the manifestation is in exact proportion to the force of striving received from the shock." -Gurdjieff, Belzebub's Tales to his grandson

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Jahn

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 01:43:29 AM »
Quote from: ∞ on April 26, 2009, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: ∞ on April 26, 2009, 11:06:28 PM

Time to make plans.


For what - A nice Sun burn?

(Sorry but even I are about to get a bit pessimistic.)

Offline Nichi

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Re: How Dare We Be Optimistic
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 01:52:42 AM »
What do you all think about the infamous "kill shot"?
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

 

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