Author Topic: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World  (Read 103 times)

Ke-ke wan

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Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« on: December 04, 2010, 02:43:02 AM »
"Man is manifestly not the measure of all things. This universe is shot through with mystery. The very fact of its being, and of our own, is a mystery absolute, and the only miracle worthy of the name."
— Sam Harris

Sam Harris is the author of the New York Times bestsellers, The Moral Landscape, The End of Faith, and Letter to a Christian Nation. The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction.

Mr. Harris is a Co-Founder and CEO of Project Reason, a nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. He received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.

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Ke-ke wan

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Re: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 02:49:04 AM »
"In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 03:05:05 AM »
"If you think that it would be impossible to improve upon the Ten Commandments as a statement of morality, you really owe it to yourself to read some other scriptures. Once again, we need look no further than the Jains: Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, surpassed the morality of the Bible with a single sentence: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being." Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained this as its central precept. "

— Sam Harris (Letter to a Christian Nation)

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 08:07:33 AM »
Growing up an atheist, I got a lot of flack from religious people. Many very angry with me for my choice
And some even accusing me of devil worship.
I wish I would have had access to some of this information at that time.
It would have made rguing my case so much easier. At that time I usually just chose not to engage
In the battle as religious folks can sometimes resort to cruelty when defending their religion
Or their god.  These days I don't call myself an atheist as I am not fond of the term or its connotations.
I prefer to say I am a freethinker and feel that speaks for itself!

Offline Michael

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Re: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 10:16:24 AM »
Whenever I confront this kind of argument I am left dissatisfied. The reason is that from my perspective, I recognise I am outside the debate between faith and reason. This debate is between those who espouse their religious beliefs in way which I find hilariously stupid, and those are trying to knock some rational sense into these 'believers' in a way which would stop them from being dangerous bigots.

I have seen this debate here in Australia. The problem is that it is an argument between those who believe in banal fairytales and those seek to deny the existence of mystery. They are both wedded at the hip - the rationalists have pushed themselves to an extreme precisely because of the aggression and absurdity of those they define themselves as not being.

Instead of getting on with the task of defining a new religion that will take humanity into a meaningful future, they feel it necessary to debunk and outrage the believers.

In my view, the rationalists are the same as the believers, because their ideas sit on the surface of their being, like wind blown flotsam. Underneath they all live exactly the same - all follow the same daily ritual of being pushed and pulled by the attitudes and behaviours that permeate the 'world'. If you look closely, you will find they all have similar attitudes to family, health, friends, finance, betrayal, violence to self or those close to us, truthfulness, love and pride. I leave the madhats out of this as they are deranged.

The rationalists believe that religion creates wars. It is the 'other' that creates wars, and humans create the 'other' at the drop of a hat - no matter what nationality, religion or belief.

I wish the rationalists would stop giving lip-service to 'spiritual' experiences of awe and wonder, and apply their rationality to the two biggest questions humanity is facing.

1. We don't know everything, and we never will. So everyone should stop believing their 'view' is so 'right', and begin the process of acknowledging and pondering the consequences of the unknowable.

2. Humanity is falling into a pit of meaninglessness. A new paradigm of personal meaning has to be explored, and is being explored, but by too few. We have plenty of social meaningfulness - thanks to the huge influence of humanism and socialism upon our attitudes to those around us, who are not sharing in the material and physical wealth of our times. But when it comes to an inner meaning, we are left without guidance from rationalists and religious alike. As a friend of Julie's recently asked on Facebook - "What's the point?" Everyone was stumped for an intelligent and thought-out answer, because we all avoid that question.

I suppose the work of these rationalists is a battle which has to be fought, against the dangerous absurdity of rabid religio-beliefs. So best they lock horns. But the real issues for all of us a living beings about to die, is being left un-addressed.

Offline Nichi

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Re: Faith vs. Reason in the Modern World
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 02:40:26 PM »
In my view, the rationalists are the same as the believers, because their ideas sit on the surface of their being, like wind blown flotsam. Underneath they all live exactly the same - all follow the same daily ritual of being pushed and pulled by the attitudes and behaviours that permeate the 'world'.

A good illustration of this dynamic is my roommate, who literally goes into "tantrum"-mode over "Christians". (He claims himself an atheist.) In particular, his coworkers are all born-agains, and he comes home slamming things and hurling hateful invective all over the house. I finally asked him tonight, "How is your zeal different than theirs?"
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

 

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