Author Topic: The Double  (Read 803 times)

Offline Michael

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The Double
« on: April 12, 2011, 09:55:12 PM »
There are different ways to see and speak of the Double. It belongs to a world that does not limit itself to our accustomed physical parameters. Some claim that Don Juan was Carlos’s Double. They would not be wrong, even accepting Don Juan was a real distinct person. This is not the focus of my current theme, but it is a very interesting feature of the interrelationship of identity in the astral.

In this thread I want to speak about the significance of the Double for everything we do on the Path. The Double lies at the core of all mystical traditions, art, sport, martial arts - it is the feature of our being which explains the entire edifice of spiritual and cultural development.

In essence, the Double is an inner identity. The sentient body, the astral body, the vehicle of imagination, the soul. Throughout the ages, humanity has tried to find words to describe something intangible about us, and yet of ultimate meaning and importance for us.

There are layers to the Double. Often a person with a Double of rich colour and range, nonetheless collapses due to lack of depth and strength. It is relatively easy to free and expand a person’s Double, but it is extremely difficult to build maturity and resilience into it. This is why we need two threads to our development - one to foster endurance and keel, the other to give wings.

The science of unfurling the Double involves three aspects: breadth, depth and scope. You will be able to distil everything in Soma, and in my book, into these three aspects. It is unwise to leave any out. I am aware that some traditions do leave out one or two of these aspects, but I personally believe that is a mistake for which practitioners eventually pay dearly, or need to develop separately as nature demands. I strongly feel all three should be brought within the purvey of a school’s attention, like weaving a plat.

I will follow the theoretical preferred sequence in explaining these three aspects, as their order is important. However in practice we have to respond to the course our lives take. In actuality, the typical order is in complete reverse of the theoretical preferred sequence. We tend to be thrust unprepared into the expanded scope of the Double’s possibility first, which in itself drops us into a pit from which only depth can rescue us, and then out of curiosity and resultant loose moorings we discover breadth. Much better to follow the correct path if possible.

Breadth

The first thing to understand about the Double is that in an adult, it is usually completely encased, timid and subjugated to the persona’s identity. And this identity is in itself the trained servant of the physical-social-cultural environment. We are not even aware that our identity is a physical-social-cultural clone, nor aware that our Double is tamed and drained. But it is far worse than this, because society is constructed to constantly milk our Double for the purposes of external dominant forces. What these forces are is a fascinating subject, but outside this immediate discussion. Suffice to realise that almost all members of society continually and willingly feed these forces with their Double’s vitality, until by middle age it is only an insipid shadow. However, society does offer a deal - once it has sucked out the Double’s vitality, it has also manipulated the Double into a form which society then protects until death, for the most part. There are always those who accidentally find themselves outside the tent without any survival resources. That is a very sad situation, and one can judge a society on how it deals with these ‘accidents’.

Thus the first step in releasing the Double is to focus on its form. The Double’s form is carefully and relentlessly massaged since the very first breath we take, into a shape that aligns with societies demands. By the time we reach adulthood, its form is so deeply etched and shaped, that only extreme measures can break down it’s calcifications. Unfortunately such measures can also kill the whole being, or at least permanently damage it, and rend useless. This is why we first need to prepare the Double with breadth.

The technique is to expand our range of interests and physical locations. This is so obvious and enjoyable that it is surprising how much resistance there is to it. Not everyone is naturally adventurous. Most people, including those on a spiritual path, fully believe themselves to be who they believe themselves to be. They live in a style their parents lived, prefer the food they have preferred since youth, prefer the music they liked in their youth, prefer the clothes they have always worn, prefer the movies they have always liked watching, read (or not as the case may be) the kind of books, newspapers and magazines they have always had around them, adopt the politics of either their parents or their student days, hold attitudes they have almost always held. They believe themselves to be this identity they have always known, and it never occurs to them that this identity is largely forced upon them at a time when they had no choice. The only choice they had was to make a personal selection from a very small allowed range - the range, the whole construct itself was never open to question.

Our task here is to give breadth to our Double. Force it to fit into new shapes, and don’t accept the complaint that it’s not ‘what we like’. What we like is what we are familiar with, so the secret to bestowing breadth, is to force ourselves into something different for long enough to pass a critical threshold. Knowing how to reach and pass this threshold - even to know of its existence - is a major shift in our Double’s form itself. Patient endurance until we acquire a taste.

Liking and disliking has nothing to do with this whatsoever - in developing breadth, liking and disliking are obstacles that have to be tossed aside. This is all about shape-shifting the Double in preparation for the extreme shifts that are to come under ‘scope’. Breadth is laying a sufficiently large foundation to support the unimaginable adventures of the Double. Think for a minute of the man setting out the string-line for the base of the Great Pyramid - imagine looking at the vast area he is stretching his little string-line around, and saying to him, “You’ve got to be joking!”

Depth

This one’s not easy. No matter how you face it, depth can only be acquired by the old school’s methods. Without depth, we are pissing in the wind. Time and time again I see so many stories of people who were introduced into the mysteries, with tales of fabulous experiences, only to end up shipwrecked in despair or meaninglessness. Believe me, no matter how fantastic one’s exposure to scope, it means zilch if depth has not been acquired. The journey is long beyond your possible conception. Only the knowledge of the depth of your will can stand as any security against the vastness of the universe.

We don’t want to know about it. To offer the newbie some glimpse of the kind of people who journey successfully into the tempest of eternity, images have been left behind of extreme deities who preside over the darker realms, is to scare them off with very good reason. The message is clear - if you think this is a pleasant or glamorous venture, think again. Only preparedness to cast our net along the very bottom of the ocean, will stand by us on the road that leads into the wilderness.

The technique here is subjecting or accepting the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune with forbearance and grace. It is simple - when something in your life goes wrong, what do you do? It is healthy to kick the tires and swear, but after that? That is the issue. But more than that, depth can only be acquired by the patient forbearance of many long years of unfair fate. We only seal our keel through the quiet passage of a life spent in discomfort and restraint, without it bowing our will and aspiration. As I said, not easy. To those who are working their way through this course of training, we should always offer only respect and praise.

Once this quality has been acquired in the Double, when faced with the ease of how fellow travellers are offered precious treasures, we can only turn our eyes to the distant mountains, knowing the road is long...

Scope

This is the fun and dangerous stuff. There are two sub-aspects to scope. Firstly there is the ejaculatory factor, and secondly there is the sober journey into postures of the Double that are always un-pre-comprehensible.

The ejaculatory factor: our Double is so glued to our enculturated identity that only a violent blow can release it. Anything can serve to deliver that blow, but it has to serve a constructive outcome, rather than a destructive one. Think of a jet pilot as his plane descends uncontrollably, hitting the Ejaculate Button. Voom! Out he is shot from his cockpit into the open sky in a violent swoosh! That is what we need.

The sober journey into the un-pre-comprehensible: we have no idea of the possibilities of the Double. At every turn of my own Double’s path, I have been left gobsmacked. I can thrust my imagination into the possible future, but the result is always stranger and more profound than I could have conceived.

What is important is that our Double is inseminated, and then that it has the inner potency to grow upon its own path. Insemination is a beautiful thing. This comes down in a lineage, which is worth acknowledging and offering the greatest love towards. A seed of spiritual intent penetrates into us and gives birth to a potentiality we carry within us. That seed becomes our Double. I know we each have our own Double, but to say the seed becomes our Double is not inaccurate. This is a wonder to watch and revere. It can only be fully appreciated once we catch a fleeting glimpse of The Double - who is that being?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2022, 01:12:01 AM by Michael »
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Offline Michael

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Re: The Double
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2022, 09:01:14 PM »
One of the odd things about the Double is how its activation doesn’t always sit with the world. I find this most curious. Seems like an essential aspect of our being is always going to cause us trouble.

The difficulty here is trying to distinguish between someone who has personality problems as opposed to someone who’s Double is active and restless. Lets begin with the common situation.

Commonly the Double of all beings, human, animal, tends to fit neatly within the constraints of social order. These are tired or tamed Doubles. Because the Double can be unpredictable and capricious, social pressures, which conform to comfort and safety, require us to ‘keep our load covered’ as they say on the way to the rubbish tip. People generally don’t like the insecurity which the Double represents - the world it represents. So through life we all learn to keep it tucked in, under wraps.

But even with those who have a tamed Double, things can go wrong. Along the way we pick up stuff which causes us to manifest unpleasant responses and moods. This is all in the healing of the personality area. Such a person causes trouble, but not because of an active Double, rather because of immaturity and imbalance. We can observe this because we see them behaving according to ego impulses. It is not that difficult to read a person, and see when their fractious behaviour is either from learned scripts of earlier life, or from fragility of self-importance and lack of self-esteem.

When a person’s Double becomes active in certain areas, it is seen as a spontaneous element in their behaviour. They blurt out things or act in unpredictable ways which upsets the common order and protocol. Often such behaviour is ascribed as being personality problems by those who are offended by them, but we can very quickly see that this is only a defensive interpretation.

The key element to look for is spontaneity, or a lack of ability to conform to accepted parameters. They swing too far out on the turns, they jump to ideas that are considered inappropriate, or they make jokes that others don’t appreciate. It’s as though a burst of energy constantly sabotages their social standing and thus they find it hard to make many friends.

Except of course when the Double is active in the sexual area. Then for some reason society not only allows them licence, but also is secretly attracted to such people. No matter how society upholds its moral code, we can’t help being attracted to those whose Double is constantly poking its nose out of the genitals (so long as they are young). I think the species set it up that way, and we just have to acknowledge it.

But in general, once our Double becomes active, we have to exert considerable control to not constantly upset others. The idea that great gurus have a warm and accepting presence, is mostly crap. Their presence will usually scare us subconsciously that we will find any excuse to get away. Unless we ourselves have an activated Double - then a relationship forms between Doubles.

What this means, is that once we have progressed along the Path, we find ourselves rubbing others up the wrong way. Primarily due to our wider range of possibilities - in word, thought, and deed. I had a lot of trouble with this in my younger days, and I admit considerable confusion as to why people didn’t like me. It took me a long time to finally see that people in general are very scared and conservative. So are animals. I had to train my dog into releasing his Double sufficiently to accept my weird ways - but then he always did have an uncontrollable streak.

I didn’t understand that most people live within extremely (to my eyes) narrow bounds. My capacity to run barefoot across these boundary lines upset them no end. Over time I have come to learn to ‘tone it down’ in company. Unfortunately I still do blow it. Can’t seem to help myself sometimes - not always good for business.

How to identify someone who’s Double is active?
You have to sense it - to see the energetic bursts. There is no way to tell by assessing the temperament, the skills, the personality, the maturity and so on. Only by sensing a kind of looseness and unpredictability. These are not conservative types. All these traits which are not indicators, are nonetheless important in knowing if the person is worthwhile. An active Double is not necessarily a good thing in all people. On the whole we seek a balanced personality, or at least some form of depth, and then we can enjoy their Double. But without some freedom in a person’s Double, alas they are pretty much useless for our purposes - I mean even just as a temporary friendship.

You will actually find you do this Double activation assessment instantaneously with everyone you meet. What you are seeking is compatibility of scope in another’s Double, and then you might say, ‘That’s an interesting person, but can I trust her?’
« Last Edit: December 31, 2022, 01:19:46 AM by Michael »
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Offline Michael

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Re: The Double
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2022, 09:01:43 PM »
I wish to continue this thread, but just in case I die on the roads tomorrow, which I have no intention of doing let me assure you, I will feel bad if I don't at least state the critical, quintessential point of the Double.

I always feel odd speaking of the Double as it is such a personal matter - I feel it watching and writing through me as I type.

To cut to the bone: enlightenment et al is all very well, but there is only one thing we are focused on. If you haven't worked it out by now, let me say it in no uncertain terms.

Our primary task is to transfer our perceptual locus from the physical body to the Double. This means we have to become the Identity of the Double.

How you do this is open to the most varied and wild methods. Reading Buddhist and Hindu Tantric stories as much as DJ's family episodes and constructs, will leave you in no doubt there are highly fancy ways to accomplish this task. And what a delight that is if you have access to experienced avenues like these. But in the end, there is always the Royal Path.

Should you be unfortunate in not contacting the Clever Men and Women, always know there is the ultimate technique.

Inner silence. That is always the foundation. Once you silence the mind-body-heart, silence the physical manifestation of our identity, the Double will take over. It sits behind, and waits till we have tired of our Game of Life.

Meanwhile, there really are great ways to accelerate the process, and that is what we should be focused on. But never retire the foundation - always practice samadhi at every opportunity.

It is not that difficult - silent mind. Learn by practice to extend the time you can sustain the mind without thought. That is the Royal Path, and in the end, your application at this is all that counts. Wear out your pant bottoms - that was Guru Rinpoche's advice. "No matter how good a thing is, sometimes it is better without."

Without anything.
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Re: The Double
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2023, 10:32:24 AM »
I wish to continue this thread, but just in case I die on the roads tomorrow, which I have no intention of doing let me assure you, I will feel bad if I don't at least state the critical, quintessential point of the Double.

I always feel odd speaking of the Double as it is such a personal matter - I feel it watching and writing through me as I type.

To cut to the bone: enlightenment et al is all very well, but there is only one thing we are focused on. If you haven't worked it out by now, let me say it in no uncertain terms.

Our primary task is to transfer our perceptual locus from the physical body to the Double. This means we have to become the Identity of the Double.

How you do this is open to the most varied and wild methods. Reading Buddhist and Hindu Tantric stories as much as DJ's family episodes and constructs, will leave you in no doubt there are highly fancy ways to accomplish this task. And what a delight that is if you have access to experienced avenues like these. But in the end, there is always the Royal Path.

Should you be unfortunate in not contacting the Clever Men and Women, always know there is the ultimate technique.

Inner silence. That is always the foundation. Once you silence the mind-body-heart, silence the physical manifestation of our identity, the Double will take over. It sits behind, and waits till we have tired of our Game of Life.

Meanwhile, there really are great ways to accelerate the process, and that is what we should be focused on. But never retire the foundation - always practice samadhi at every opportunity.

It is not that difficult - silent mind. Learn by practice to extend the time you can sustain the mind without thought. That is the Royal Path, and in the end, your application at this is all that counts. Wear out your pant bottoms - that was Guru Rinpoche's advice. "No matter how good a thing is, sometimes it is better without."

Without anything.

Ok so how do I resolve this quote?

Della said per the double we have to create it. There has to be a point somewhere in the timeline to initiate it’s creation.

I agree like this could be done in future ——> it can go in past <———— But it has to be created.

I get the silent deal. But thoughts make things and as below thought is necessary to create it.

Yes I know we arrive at an impasse did the double create us?

Below though I am not sure how I can resolve what you say and he says.

So help me out.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: The Double
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2023, 02:24:20 PM »
Also I know how to silence internal dialog. That’s how I can hear. Obviously clairaudience would be ineffective if you can’t be silent to hear.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Dorama no Hiroin

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Re: The Double
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2023, 05:04:55 PM »
I was reading your post as this was playing. While listening to the song I fazed out of my consciousness and came back with my hands doing the flying lotus mundra. And no I did not know what that was prior I had to look it up.

Hope this helps.


https://youtu.be/uOi_qHmKSK8
Into the truth
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Re: The Double
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2023, 05:57:08 PM »
Thank you yes I know this one well. I am aware the Power of Silence one of my favs of the books. But i like words and dialog I am a mercury in aquarius in third house so shit! (trine uranus its really necessary for me). But yes i like quiet times and things but thought we arise from it all. I know how to stop it which i used to have horrible racing thoughts. Im way better now on that. Thats required to channel higher self which most know its me --> Higher self or double----> Spirit and the "me" shuts down so i can hear that from the chain. So I can but any identity etc that takes thought and you can change yourself by how you think of yourself - i know the power of that. I express it constantly to folks. Change your mind change your heart changes your view of who you are.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan
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Re: The Double
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2023, 04:29:22 PM »
« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 08:12:01 AM by Michael »

I wish i knew what the edit was.   8)

There are different ways to see and speak of the Double. It belongs to a world that does not limit itself to our accustomed physical parameters. Some claim that Don Juan was Carlos’s Double. They would not be wrong, even accepting Don Juan was a real distinct person. This is not the focus of my current theme, but it is a very interesting feature of the interrelationship of identity in the astral.

In this thread I want to speak about the significance of the Double for everything we do on the Path. The Double lies at the core of all mystical traditions, art, sport, martial arts - it is the feature of our being which explains the entire edifice of spiritual and cultural development.

In essence, the Double is an inner identity. The sentient body, the astral body, the vehicle of imagination, the soul. Throughout the ages, humanity has tried to find words to describe something intangible about us, and yet of ultimate meaning and importance for us.

There are layers to the Double. Often a person with a Double of rich colour and range, nonetheless collapses due to lack of depth and strength. It is relatively easy to free and expand a person’s Double, but it is extremely difficult to build maturity and resilience into it. This is why we need two threads to our development - one to foster endurance and keel, the other to give wings.

The science of unfurling the Double involves three aspects: breadth, depth and scope. You will be able to distil everything in Soma, and in my book, into these three aspects. It is unwise to leave any out. I am aware that some traditions do leave out one or two of these aspects, but I personally believe that is a mistake for which practitioners eventually pay dearly, or need to develop separately as nature demands. I strongly feel all three should be brought within the purvey of a school’s attention, like weaving a plat.

I will follow the theoretical preferred sequence in explaining these three aspects, as their order is important. However in practice we have to respond to the course our lives take. In actuality, the typical order is in complete reverse of the theoretical preferred sequence. We tend to be thrust unprepared into the expanded scope of the Double’s possibility first, which in itself drops us into a pit from which only depth can rescue us, and then out of curiosity and resultant loose moorings we discover breadth. Much better to follow the correct path if possible.

Breadth

The first thing to understand about the Double is that in an adult, it is usually completely encased, timid and subjugated to the persona’s identity. And this identity is in itself the trained servant of the physical-social-cultural environment. We are not even aware that our identity is a physical-social-cultural clone, nor aware that our Double is tamed and drained. But it is far worse than this, because society is constructed to constantly milk our Double for the purposes of external dominant forces. What these forces are is a fascinating subject, but outside this immediate discussion. Suffice to realise that almost all members of society continually and willingly feed these forces with their Double’s vitality, until by middle age it is only an insipid shadow. However, society does offer a deal - once it has sucked out the Double’s vitality, it has also manipulated the Double into a form which society then protects until death, for the most part. There are always those who accidentally find themselves outside the tent without any survival resources. That is a very sad situation, and one can judge a society on how it deals with these ‘accidents’.

Thus the first step in releasing the Double is to focus on its form. The Double’s form is carefully and relentlessly massaged since the very first breath we take, into a shape that aligns with societies demands. By the time we reach adulthood, its form is so deeply etched and shaped, that only extreme measures can break down it’s calcifications. Unfortunately such measures can also kill the whole being, or at least permanently damage it, and rend useless. This is why we first need to prepare the Double with breadth.

The technique is to expand our range of interests and physical locations. This is so obvious and enjoyable that it is surprising how much resistance there is to it. Not everyone is naturally adventurous. Most people, including those on a spiritual path, fully believe themselves to be who they believe themselves to be. They live in a style their parents lived, prefer the food they have preferred since youth, prefer the music they liked in their youth, prefer the clothes they have always worn, prefer the movies they have always liked watching, read (or not as the case may be) the kind of books, newspapers and magazines they have always had around them, adopt the politics of either their parents or their student days, hold attitudes they have almost always held. They believe themselves to be this identity they have always known, and it never occurs to them that this identity is largely forced upon them at a time when they had no choice. The only choice they had was to make a personal selection from a very small allowed range - the range, the whole construct itself was never open to question.

Our task here is to give breadth to our Double. Force it to fit into new shapes, and don’t accept the complaint that it’s not ‘what we like’. What we like is what we are familiar with, so the secret to bestowing breadth, is to force ourselves into something different for long enough to pass a critical threshold. Knowing how to reach and pass this threshold - even to know of its existence - is a major shift in our Double’s form itself. Patient endurance until we acquire a taste.

Liking and disliking has nothing to do with this whatsoever - in developing breadth, liking and disliking are obstacles that have to be tossed aside. This is all about shape-shifting the Double in preparation for the extreme shifts that are to come under ‘scope’. Breadth is laying a sufficiently large foundation to support the unimaginable adventures of the Double. Think for a minute of the man setting out the string-line for the base of the Great Pyramid - imagine looking at the vast area he is stretching his little string-line around, and saying to him, “You’ve got to be joking!”

Depth

This one’s not easy. No matter how you face it, depth can only be acquired by the old school’s methods. Without depth, we are pissing in the wind. Time and time again I see so many stories of people who were introduced into the mysteries, with tales of fabulous experiences, only to end up shipwrecked in despair or meaninglessness. Believe me, no matter how fantastic one’s exposure to scope, it means zilch if depth has not been acquired. The journey is long beyond your possible conception. Only the knowledge of the depth of your will can stand as any security against the vastness of the universe.

We don’t want to know about it. To offer the newbie some glimpse of the kind of people who journey successfully into the tempest of eternity, images have been left behind of extreme deities who preside over the darker realms, is to scare them off with very good reason. The message is clear - if you think this is a pleasant or glamorous venture, think again. Only preparedness to cast our net along the very bottom of the ocean, will stand by us on the road that leads into the wilderness.

The technique here is subjecting or accepting the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune with forbearance and grace. It is simple - when something in your life goes wrong, what do you do? It is healthy to kick the tires and swear, but after that? That is the issue. But more than that, depth can only be acquired by the patient forbearance of many long years of unfair fate. We only seal our keel through the quiet passage of a life spent in discomfort and restraint, without it bowing our will and aspiration. As I said, not easy. To those who are working their way through this course of training, we should always offer only respect and praise.

Once this quality has been acquired in the Double, when faced with the ease of how fellow travellers are offered precious treasures, we can only turn our eyes to the distant mountains, knowing the road is long...

Scope

This is the fun and dangerous stuff. There are two sub-aspects to scope. Firstly there is the ejaculatory factor, and secondly there is the sober journey into postures of the Double that are always un-pre-comprehensible.

The ejaculatory factor: our Double is so glued to our enculturated identity that only a violent blow can release it. Anything can serve to deliver that blow, but it has to serve a constructive outcome, rather than a destructive one. Think of a jet pilot as his plane descends uncontrollably, hitting the Ejaculate Button. Voom! Out he is shot from his cockpit into the open sky in a violent swoosh! That is what we need.

The sober journey into the un-pre-comprehensible: we have no idea of the possibilities of the Double. At every turn of my own Double’s path, I have been left gobsmacked. I can thrust my imagination into the possible future, but the result is always stranger and more profound than I could have conceived.

What is important is that our Double is inseminated, and then that it has the inner potency to grow upon its own path. Insemination is a beautiful thing. This comes down in a lineage, which is worth acknowledging and offering the greatest love towards. A seed of spiritual intent penetrates into us and gives birth to a potentiality we carry within us. That seed becomes our Double. I know we each have our own Double, but to say the seed becomes our Double is not inaccurate. This is a wonder to watch and revere. It can only be fully appreciated once we catch a fleeting glimpse of The Double - who is that being?
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: The Double
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2023, 04:34:46 PM »
Quote
You will actually find you do this Double activation assessment instantaneously with everyone you meet. What you are seeking is compatibility of scope in another’s Double, and then you might say, ‘That’s an interesting person, but can I trust her?

I am interesting and ...no....  ;D

Just kidding. Looking at this I would much rather deal with say the seekers who have a wild double who is magical and freedom seeking and "weird" then dull and boring and I continually have to pick up and kick in the ass to move. A rigid double who has been sucked of vitality by the ego-source is the worst.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan
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Offline nikos

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Re: The Double
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2024, 04:43:45 AM »
Can it be said that our double is our energy body ?

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Re: The Double
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2024, 06:06:56 AM »
Can it be said that our double is our energy body ?

I am not sure Michael's take on this, but I think the double is bigger than that. It is connected to the energy body. But its bigger. Michael might equate it to the causal? I try to not get too hung up on those things. I know the double is me, an extension of myself. And somewhere I realize, all along I was just its avatar. But the energy body aspect feels more me, and it fuels my energy body, if that makes sense.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: The Double
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2024, 06:54:57 AM »
If the double is the energy body, I wonder if the energy body can get curious.... lol

I think it can, besides the joke....  :-\

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Re: The Double
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2024, 12:09:07 PM »
Found this:

Anything that can be written about this subject is bound to be wrong.  I am using the brain and the language of my culture, both of which come under the suzerainty of the physical world, and the bent of my culture to functionalism.  But more, I want to reduce the magic of it to categorisation - hallmark of the prosaic mind and anathema to the astral world, the world of emotion and feeling. So take this as a means to place a handle on the double - not an unworthy exercise.

As a being drops down a level, it splits into two - this is a very old insight.  Lets begin with the three worlds - the physical, astral and causal; or on Toltec, the 1st, 2nd, and 3 attention; or as others have described, the 3 dimensional, the 2, and the 1 dimensional; or the body, the soul and the spirit.  These are in essence illusions, but due to the nature of existence they are distinct worlds, separated by what some have called a ripple of energy.  This classification is critically important, as too often spiritually inclined people see only the astral world as worthy of  a goal.  This is a huge debate that has raged in India for 3 thousand years, and in Christianity the 3rd world has been outlawed since the first council.  Remember, the astral world is vast beyond comprehension, thus it is simplistic to classify it in 1st attention tools.  But nonetheless, it is a world of pictures, in distinction to the 3rd world which is imageless.

At the topmost point that we can grasp, we have the Dreamer, the being that dreams, or beams us.  This, from our perspective, ageless and immortal being, lives in the causal world, the 3rd world.  Some call this the Higher Self, but the problem with that word is that it has become over used, and now means all kinds of things, so has become close to useless.  I introduce it only to say it could mean anything.

When the Dreamer beams itself down into temporal manifestation, two beings are created, an astral body and a physical body.  The physical body is really the only one we can call a ‘body’.  But we all dream, and when in dream we inhabit a body, yet that is illusory.  Try to see the astral as a physical body turned inside out, like a glove.  What is ‘I’ in physical, becomes the ‘world’ in astral, and visa versa.  In dream, we inhabit our physical body’s inner world, as our outer world.

Now comes the tricky part. I don’t like the word ‘double’, as it is far too clinical/mathematical for a being that would disdain such a simplistic term.  The word soul, which I sometimes use, is another disintegrated word that has a different meaning for everyone. The old Taoists called it the spirit body, which I prefer myself.  Sometimes I call it the energy body, but that depends on the context. The double is not the same as the astral body that everyone has, though it is the same in some ways.  It inhabits the astral worlds, but curiously it seems to have a closer connection to the Dreamer than our physical, and it also seems to have deep roots far beyond our small life span, in short it has an ancientness redolent of the Dreamer itself.  Personally I don’t believe it is immortal, but I am not in a position to claim that with any certainty - I will of course find out eventually.  Still it is my Dreamer that I hold in prime focus, as it is the true channel of that other mysterious energy we call spirit, or Spirit.

Who made who, little me or the double? - I don’t know.  But I have watched as my own double grew in power and awareness, and for me I observed that happen as I delved deeper into my own self.  This is important, because contrary to the belief of many, it is not my own lucid dreaming that I observed as the creative impetus, though it was a very important step.

I became disillusioned with aimless lucid dreaming, which although was high adventure, never really went anywhere past the significant first point of astral awakening.  I wanted to go deeper.  I did not know how to do that in dreams except to meditate in dreaming, which produced explosive results, but still I saw that I was not changing, it was just me in a different movie.  The same happened to me after years of physically travelling through strange lands, one day I realised I could be anywhere, but it was still me - I wanted deep transformation, not just switching TV channels.  Comes a point when switching environments no longer produces the cataclysmic inner resonations that occur at first when our inner being is fused to the outer world - ie, when at last our inner being turns freely inside the outer shell, but still needs to grow further. How?

It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations.  I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe.  It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).

But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was.  So in that sense, my work-on-self has been a way to not create the double, but remove the illusions from my own eye so that I could see him more clearly.  Still, it is not as simple as that, and I do believe the double is intimately connected with my own journey into depth of being - such a difficult thing to understand let alone progress into.  There is something deep in me that is both the little physical me and the double - just coming of age into its full inheritance in two worlds, two bodies, neither more significant than the other.

The double’s appearance is different from spirit guides.  There is a unique vibration around one when the double is present, or familiar.  A quality of magical possibilities and inspiration.  Guides give sensible advise and prosaic comments, where as the double causes poetic and powerful acts.  The double has little time for small talk, even that of new-age spiritual fascinations.  It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us. 

When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral.  But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate.  That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way.  Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.

These terms are old, and reflect the images of seeing the Dreamer’s etheric energetic pathways down through the double to the lowest material level being - a few contacts looks like puppet strings, a very advanced person looks like a basket, and masters are a sealed ball of light.

m
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Firestarter

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Re: The Double
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2024, 12:13:15 PM »
If the double is the energy body, I wonder if the energy body can get curious.... lol

I think it can, besides the joke....  :-\

So Michael at least sometimes calls it energy body. I normally feel energy body myself, more closely linked to me (tho yes double is me). But "spirit body" is a good way to describe the double. That I do feel is more "over me" but is me. So if I were to choose, double = spirit body I would label more than the specific energy body. Causal, higher self (tho he doesn't like that term, probably cause of new age). But I use higher self a lot myself cause in say my group if I said "double" they may not relate to it as much as higher self.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: The Double
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2024, 05:45:10 PM »
I’m reading this book by Dolores Cannon right now. She calls it an Oversoul.  It got me thinking:

“It was explained in the Convoluted Universe series that we are part of a larger soul, an Oversoul, or as they say a “whole soul.” This is our true self, but it is too large to enter a body. It has said that if all the energy of a person were to try to enter into a physical body the body would be destroyed. It would be too much. So the soul is like a diamond with many facets. In order to learn as much as it can in the least amount of time, the whole soul will send out splinters, shards or aspects of itself to experience as much as is totally possible. This goes back to the concept of simultaneous time because we are truly living all our past, present and future lives at the same time. This is done so the soul will gain as much knowledge as possible through the experiences the different aspects are living through. When the New Earth is finally accomplished all of our individual aspects are called back and reunited with the whole soul.”
« Last Edit: May 11, 2024, 03:11:31 AM by Firestarter »
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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