Author Topic: da double  (Read 679 times)

Offline Michael

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da double
« on: July 22, 2006, 08:54:02 PM »
Anything that can be written about this subject is bound to be wrong.  I am using the brain and the language of my culture, both of which come under the suzerainty of the physical world, and the bent of my culture to functionalism.  But more, I want to reduce the magic of it to categorisation - hallmark of the prosaic mind and anathema to the astral world, the world of emotion and feeling. So take this as a means to place a handle on the double - not an unworthy exercise.

As a being drops down a level, it splits into two - this is a very old insight.  Lets begin with the three worlds - the physical, astral and causal; or on Toltec, the 1st, 2nd, and 3 attention; or as others have described, the 3 dimensional, the 2, and the 1 dimensional; or the body, the soul and the spirit.  These are in essence illusions, but due to the nature of existence they are distinct worlds, separated by what some have called a ripple of energy.  This classification is critically important, as too often spiritually inclined people see only the astral world as worthy of  a goal.  This is a huge debate that has raged in India for 3 thousand years, and in Christianity the 3rd world has been outlawed since the first council.  Remember, the astral world is vast beyond comprehension, thus it is simplistic to classify it in 1st attention tools.  But nonetheless, it is a world of pictures, in distinction to the 3rd world which is imageless.

At the topmost point that we can grasp, we have the Dreamer, the being that dreams, or beams us.  This, from our perspective, ageless and immortal being, lives in the causal world, the 3rd world.  Some call this the Higher Self, but the problem with that word is that it has become over used, and now means all kinds of things, so has become close to useless.  I introduce it only to say it could mean anything.

When the Dreamer beams itself down into temporal manifestation, two beings are created, an astral body and a physical body.  The physical body is really the only one we can call a ‘body’.  But we all dream, and when in dream we inhabit a body, yet that is illusory.  Try to see the astral as a physical body turned inside out, like a glove.  What is ‘I’ in physical, becomes the ‘world’ in astral, and visa versa.  In dream, we inhabit our physical body’s inner world, as our outer world.

Now comes the tricky part. I don’t like the word ‘double’, as it is far too clinical/mathematical for a being that would disdain such a simplistic term.  The word soul, which I sometimes use, is another disintegrated word that has a different meaning for everyone. The old Taoists called it the spirit body, which I prefer myself.  Sometimes I call it the energy body, but that depends on the context. The double is not the same as the astral body that everyone has, though it is the same in some ways.  It inhabits the astral worlds, but curiously it seems to have a closer connection to the Dreamer than our physical, and it also seems to have deep roots far beyond our small life span, in short it has an ancientness redolent of the Dreamer itself.  Personally I don’t believe it is immortal, but I am not in a position to claim that with any certainty - I will of course find out eventually.  Still it is my Dreamer that I hold in prime focus, as it is the true channel of that other mysterious energy we call spirit, or Spirit.

Who made who, little me or the double? - I don’t know.  But I have watched as my own double grew in power and awareness, and for me I observed that happen as I delved deeper into my own self.  This is important, because contrary to the belief of many, it is not my own lucid dreaming that I observed as the creative impetus, though it was a very important step.

I became disillusioned with aimless lucid dreaming, which although was high adventure, never really went anywhere past the significant first point of astral awakening.  I wanted to go deeper.  I did not know how to do that in dreams except to meditate in dreaming, which produced explosive results, but still I saw that I was not changing, it was just me in a different movie.  The same happened to me after years of physically travelling through strange lands, one day I realised I could be anywhere, but it was still me - I wanted deep transformation, not just switching TV channels.  Comes a point when switching environments no longer produces the cataclysmic inner resonations that occur at first when our inner being is fused to the outer world - ie, when at last our inner being turns freely inside the outer shell, but still needs to grow further. How?

It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations.  I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe.  It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).

But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was.  So in that sense, my work-on-self has been a way to not create the double, but remove the illusions from my own eye so that I could see him more clearly.  Still, it is not as simple as that, and I do believe the double is intimately connected with my own journey into depth of being - such a difficult thing to understand let alone progress into.  There is something deep in me that is both the little physical me and the double - just coming of age into its full inheritance in two worlds, two bodies, neither more significant than the other.

The double’s appearance is different from spirit guides.  There is a unique vibration around one when the double is present, or familiar.  A quality of magical possibilities and inspiration.  Guides give sensible advise and prosaic comments, where as the double causes poetic and powerful acts.  The double has little time for small talk, even that of new-age spiritual fascinations.  It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us. 

When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral.  But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate.  That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way.  Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.

These terms are old, and reflect the images of seeing the Dreamer’s etheric energetic pathways down through the double to the lowest material level being - a few contacts looks like puppet strings, a very advanced person looks like a basket, and masters are a sealed ball of light.

m

Jahn

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Re: da double
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2006, 09:30:55 PM »

When a group comes together in the way of this work, you can bet the doubles of each person have long ago come together, and are acting together in the symbolic level of the astral.  But if the doubles are not matured in their connection, and their own evolution, then the group on this side can disintegrate.  That is a pity, as so much can be achieved, but really, the ‘group Dreamer’ has its own time, and will draw in its parts in its own way.  Nonetheless I am one to be saddened at the opportunities lost to each member in this life, to such an extent that I try to find any way to turn the group, like the individual, from a puppet being into a basket being into a full being of light.

Thank you M for bringing in this topic with all your experience. The double will remain a mystery to me, and my experiences with it doesn't resolve the riddle at all. From the wise Toltec I have learned though that in the really really dark ages where stuff that we disuss so openly was strictly forbidden and social gathering in esoteric matters was difficult to arrange, together with the fact that transportation and communications were slow - then the Toltecs used the double to meet. So this is in line with what you also are telling.

It was only when I discovered how to do this deep transformation, and implemented it in my life, that my double really began to draw closer to me, and began to reflect this depth in its own charismatic and fabulous manifestations.  I use the term ‘draw closer’ with purpose, because that is how it appears, in myself and others I observe.  It is almost impossible to transfer knowledge to another whose double is absent, irresponsible, childish, capricious, erratic or plain unhelpful (and mine has been all of those and more - like violent and abusive - along the journey, so I recognise it immediately in others).

But the strange thing is that now I get the picture that my double was always the wise and powerful being he is, and I was only projecting my own shadow side onto him, and seeing him as that, which he never was.

I suppose it is about there somewhere I am. After transformation comes these insights of projecting shadows. What I try to do is building up a time lag and some stability in my experiences, with the aim for a new permanent foundation. In that process I  continue to reject these shadow projections. And since I no longer hold them myself I prefer to "work" with others, preferable similar, projections. This "work" is not necessary but gives a pace and a direction that is easy to follow.

jm

Gunslinger

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Re: da double
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 07:32:48 AM »
Greetings:

Somebody asked me the question as to what I though about manifesting the double into physical being, and why people's experiences were different.  I responded thusly:

This is real important, and the key to understanding--

What we manifest, we do so according to our belief systems.

Everything is energy, specifically our essence.  Our ego is the part (for the sake of speaking) that copes with the physical world and also manifests it into being in partership with our Unconscious (ie., energy body).  When things come into being from energy to matter, according to our belief systems, it comes out, it must come out, according to our belief systems or our ego may not understand it or even perceive it.  Somebody's belief systems do it one way, Michael's another, yours and mine and Raven in still different ways.

If you believe that you can and will manifest your double (what I call your essence) into physical being, then it's highly likely that you will.  For the sake of speaking, the Double is the Sorceror's essence, that which manifested with her will and intent, into physical being.  That's what she believed would happen, and it takes a damn powerful witch with strong intent, so that's what happened.

A channeled being is an independent energy essence not focussed in this physical reality in the present now.  If it was the Sorceror's intent to manifest that being, and he consented, then that's what would have happened.  However, he would not be the Sorceror's double (unless somehow he's her essence, which he is not in this example).

Again, and I've fought with some people over this because they've made their belief system an absolute--Everything in physical reality is manifested according to our individual and mass belief systems.  The mass belief systems are our "root assumptions";  these make this world shareable amongst all of us in a similar form.  If it weren't for our belief systems, the physical world wouldn't be here, at least not in this form or be shareable amongst us all.  But our belief systems are not absolutes.  Absolutes are only those "things" for lack of a better word, that are true in all systems-physical and non-physical, such as "everything is energy".

Michael is right.  If you want to do it Della's way (from the Shaman's Rattle) or try something similar, then the person to ask is Della.  I don't work things that way, or Michael's way, or yours.  Somebody's vulture man may indeed be their double, or may not.  I don't know.  Anyway, you manifest that according to your belief systems, and it's up to you to figure that out, my opinions notwithstanding.

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 12:22:56 PM »
In rereading carefully I have found perhaps understanding to my own question.

Beyond that (Im digging for words here due to there simply are not really  the right ones to use thus patterns of use which I hope dont conflict) Is an even higher frequency without voice but with plenty to share if that makes sense.

Quote
Michael:

It sees in a moment, and loves to let its field of action free in the physical through us. 


Same thing?
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

nichi

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Re: da double
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 12:30:55 PM »
Jennifer, I most assuredly don't know the answers here!
There seem to be many differing views.

All I know is this: for the past few years, I have been trying to invoke and tweak the relationship with mine, and have only rarely gotten a consistent picture.
I believe in the existence of it, but the same face does not come consistently in visualizations. For that matter, the genders have differed!
There's a certain wily vibration mine appears on, and that's my point of recognition.

Is it something different than a spirit guide? Yes, I think so .. in my "beliefs" about it, it is the immortal self -- the one I wish to walk into at the time of death, and live on.
Which makes the apprehension and development of the relationship with it all the more crucial to me....

This is the best I can articulate on it now, for I insist on first-hand experience with myself -- thus far, since what I've had has often been fuzzy, I stay mum on the topic.
I've seen mine as an attractive, humorous, loving woman,
a strong and masculine male teacher with a penchant for trouble,
a mischievous mexican fellow with a huge handlebar mustache,
and an aging male amerindian ....
I know the names of two of them.

Different names, different individuals!

Clears things right up, eh?

 :-* :-* :-*

I'm with you: the learning and journey is a pleasure!

A sense of urgency seems appropos, though, in this day and age, to me... but that's just me!

love,
v

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 12:46:47 PM »
Quote
Vicki:

 it is the immortal self -- the one I wish to walk into at the time of death, and live on.
Which makes the apprehension and development of the relationship with it all the more crucial to me....


I agree completely with this statement.
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

nichi

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Re: da double
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 12:47:58 PM »
That "insane longing" ... I think that's one of the keys!
:)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 01:01:57 PM by nichi »

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 12:54:18 PM »
*smiles*

I think Ill go sleep on it ...

 ::) My insanity drives me like a force untouchable sometimes, perhaps it is a key  ;)

Thank you!
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

nichi

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Re: da double
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 01:03:13 PM »
Jen, thanks for sharing your views and wandering through the darkness with me as well!

Sweet dreams!

 :-*

Offline Michael

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Re: da double
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 01:10:26 PM »
This is very tricky, what you ask Raven. And I haven't gone very far into understanding Della's particular angle on how one creates the double etc - as Todd says this has a lot to do with beliefs, though I would not use that term as it tends to imply mental concepts, where as I see it more that differences arise due inherent differences in our life, experiences and AP positions. But these should never become 'beliefs' in the sense that we fight to have others see the world as we do.

That is the danger in beliefs - they become obstacles to understanding another's unique view on reality. Yet there is the area of 'having to believe', where adopting a belief structure is important for action. Just it should never be a cause for blocking another person's reality.

The double is not so easily categorised. It is a mysterious entity, and as such will manifest with each person in a way that is unique to them. However, once one has had one's double appear, it becomes easier to see that in another - but not always without doubt: best to avoid adamant.

i'll add more later...

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 01:15:26 PM »
Jen, thanks for sharing your views and wandering through the darkness with me as well!

Sweet dreams!

 :-*

Thank you for lighting candles along the way!  :-*

Sweet dreams!
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 01:18:12 PM »
This is very tricky, what you ask Raven. And I haven't gone very far into understanding Della's particular angle on how one creates the double etc - as Todd says this has a lot to do with beliefs, though I would not use that term as it tends to imply mental concepts, where as I see it more that differences arise due inherent differences in our life, experiences and AP positions. But these should never become 'beliefs' in the sense that we fight to have others see the world as we do.

That is the danger in beliefs - they become obstacles to understanding another's unique view on reality. Yet there is the area of 'having to believe', where adopting a belief structure is important for action. Just it should never be a cause for blocking another person's reality.

The double is not so easily categorised. It is a mysterious entity, and as such will manifest with each person in a way that is unique to them. However, once one has had one's double appear, it becomes easier to see that in another - but not always without doubt: best to avoid adamant.

i'll add more later...

  Thank you  :-*
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

nichi

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Re: da double
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2006, 03:32:44 AM »
I sought her from myself,
     she was there all along;
          how strange that I
               had concealed her from me.

I kept going back and forth
     with her, within myself --
          my senses drunk,
               her beauties, my wine --

Setting out
     from certain knowledge
          to its source and truth,
               reality my quest,

Calling to myself from me
     to guide me by my voice
          to that part of me
               lost in my search.

Me begging me
     to raise the screen
          by lifting up the veil,
               for I was my only means to me.

I was gazing
     into the mirror of my beauty
          to see the perfection of my being
               in my contemplation of my face,

And mouthing my name, I listened
     and leaned toward me,
          looking to one who could make me hear
               mention of me in my voice,

Placing my hands
     upon my heart,
          hoping to hold me
               there in my embrace,

Rising toward my breaths
     pleading they would pass by me
          that I might find
               me there.

Until a flash appeared
     from me to my eye;
          the break of my dawn shone clear,
               my dark sky disappeared.

There, where reason recoils,
     I arrived,
          and my bond and union
               reached to me from myself.

Then I glowed in joy,
     as I attained to me
          with a certainty that spared me
               from my journey's hard ride.

I led myself to me
     after I called me back;
          my soul my means,
               my guide to me.

When I pulled away
     the curtains of sensuous disguise
          brought down
               by the mysteries of wisdom,

I raised the screen from my soul
     by lifting up the veil,
          and so it answered
               my question.

I had rubbed the rust of my attributes
     from the mirror of my being,
          and it was encircled
               with my beaming rays,

And I summoned me to witness me
     since no other existed
          in my witness
               to rival me.

My mentioning my name
     made me hear it in my recollection
          as my soul, negating sense,
               said my name and listened.

I hugged myself --
     but not by wrapping arms around my ribs --
          that I might embrace
               my identity.

I inhaled my spirit,
     while the air of my breath
          perfumed scattered ambergris
               with fragrance,

All of me free
     from the dual quality of sensation,
          my freedom within,
               I, one with my essence.

 

 
Umar Ibn al-Farid
Sufi Verses, Saintly Life
Translated by Th. Emil Homerin
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Offline Jennifer-

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Re: da double
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2006, 03:44:27 AM »
 
Quote
had rubbed the rust of my attributes
     from the mirror of my being,
          and it was encircled
               with my beaming rays,
-=-=-

 inhaled my spirit,
     while the air of my breath
          perfumed scattered ambergris
               with fragrance,

All of me free
     from the dual quality of sensation,
          my freedom within,
               I, one with my essence.

Beautiful Vicki, thank you for sharing it here, perfect placement!

 :-* Raven
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline Michael

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Re: da double
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2006, 07:38:41 AM »
yes, a good one - i like how nichi can always find an appropriate poem

 

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