Topic: Theun Mares

[Nichi]

Not that I followed or kept up on him, but I was surprised to learn tonight that he passed 2 and 1/2 months ago.

http://www.toltec-legacy.com/

[Michael]

I was never into him, although I admit he formed one spoke of the new Toltec world. His death adds another spoke into the wheels of Toltec awareness in the world.

[Jahn]

The Return of The Warriors
by Theun Mares, Lionheart publishing, 1995.



"In a time even before time, when the Orange-red Sun was still young and the planet earth was not yet born to flesh; when the Heavens were still born torn under asunder by the war of Spirit, and when man was at yet enveloped within the fiery mist of Solar beingness ....."

Introduction

"Up until 1968 when carlos castaneda published his first book entitled The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, it was assumed that the Toltec tradition was long gone and forgotten. /.../

Now many years later [1995] Castaneda are still perplexed with two haunting questions - questions  which neither his fans nor his critics have evre been able two answer with any great deal of satisfaction or conviction: firstly, did the now legendary Don Juan really exist; and secondly, if Don Juan did exist, were Mr Castaneda's incredible experience real or fictional?

Although the nature of this book will make it appear at times as if it is an attempt to defend the personal claims of Carlos Castaneda, this is not the intention, for should Mr Castaneda [why doesn't he write Dr Castaneda? ] wish to be defended then he is assuredly very capable of doing so himself.

This book has instead another purpose which is fourfold: firstly, to verify the continued existence of Toltecs throughout the ages;
secondly to substantiate the authenticity of the teachings to which Mr Castaneda bears witness;
thirdly, to reveal to the world at large the true essence of these ancient teachings;
and fourthly, to pave the way for Toltec warriors as they return to the public eye after their long voluntary 'exile' to take their rightful place once again amongst the true spiritual leaders of mankind."

[Firestarter]

Yeah good riddance lol

[Firestarter]

Yeah I remember when I would visit Gonzo's yet another way. I posted some quotes by Theun. So Forest, in her stupid glory, told Theuns cronies. They emailed G that they would sue if he did not remove the posts. I don't know why they thought Theuns words were such gold. Seems the dork was into his book sales more than sharing some wisdom. Serious, I only provided a snippet of his shit.

He was a loser. And a misogynist. I do not like what he had to say about women.

So Theun, I spit on your grave. Good riddance to you. Warrior you. Whatever.

[Michael]

I think that's going a bit far for a Satori.

[Nick]

It is easy to mistake certain aspects of a system as mysoginistic if you don't understand the whole.

Of course nothing is perfect.... I am curious which part of his system you see as mysoginistic? Often when someone says, women are best at this, and men at this, it is perceived as , couldn't it simply be true, some are good at one thing and others at another. Some people reAlly are better than others, in certain ways.

[Michael]

I'm not informed about Mares, but on the issue you mention Nick:

This thing about differences affects cultural studies as well as gender. It has been a huge issue for historians of India, where it became termed as romanticism. The argument is based on the observation that speaking of difference had a pejorative subtext. Thus to reassert equality, people reacted against differences and demanded similarity.

For example, to say a man is more rational than a woman was never a way of putting down a man. But to say a woman was more emotional than a man, was a subtle way of putting down a woman. In essence, the party in power never minds difference identification because the entire platform of discourse is based on the powerful's preference. But the non-powerful party is often ascribed qualities that are considered second-rate from the point of view of the powerful.

Unfortunately, this threw the baby out with the bathwater, because the identification of differences is what the joy of life is all about. The world is full of differences, and discovering these is empowering to us personally as well as part of a group. To say everyone is the same is a recipe for boredom - it is the differences that light up the world.

[Firestarter]

I think that's going a bit far for a Satori.

Ok. Ill just piss on his grave. 

[Nick]

Unfortunately, this threw the baby out with the bathwater, because the identification of differences is what the joy of life is all about. The world is full of differences, and discovering these is empowering to us personally as well as part of a group. To say everyone is the same is a recipe for boredom - it is the differences that light up the world.

I've read a bit of Mares and have seen the identification of differences, not sexism, but I am not fully informed when it comes to him.

I am unaware of how it is in India, but a friend of mine who was working toward his Ph.d in disability studies (before switching to something...I think in literature, believe there was competition with his wife who is studying the same causing strife.), was discussing Issues of equality; gender and cultural...and we were talking about how it is common just about everywhere you go in the United States to confuse equality with similarity, and difference with inequality. We agreed that to deny the differences is to foster an unfair or inequal situation. For instance if a child is excelling in school, to deny extra challenges so everyone can be treated similarly is potentially harmful to that child, and the same goes for the child who is not doing well. Or at a place of employment to require everyone work a similar schedule in the name of fairness, is unfair to those who can not work that schedule do to whatever other issues.

Sure if I work at it I can find ways that people are equal, but to do so by ignoring how they are different is to deny them their uniqueness, and as you said take quite a bit of joy out of life.

Further, Satori, to say good riddance to a recently deceased person on the grounds he was sexist, without justifying that judgement not only seems harsh, but could I perhaps draw a parallel between this thinking and the various forms of discrimatory thinking?

You have catagorizated someone as something less in value, said he was better off dead, therefor stating his life was not worth much if anything. Objectification is a key factor in discrimination, to objectify is in a sense to view something as not quite alive i.e. an object, therefor stating its life isn't worth much. Then you do not clarify this statement, you say it off hand, and haphazardly, like it doesn't matter.

You didn't really think about it did you? Judge not for with what judgement...you shall be judged.

[Jahn]

Well, Hitler made a lot of good for the Germans, before he ruined the country. But AH did not so many good things for the Jews, the communists and gay people. I would say that what he and his fellows did during the 1940's is perhaps the outmost crime in Europé during the last Century. (I know even worse things happens on this planet).

Despite this "evil" acts in Germany, Don Miguel have had some ideas that Hitler did not create any bad Karma. I do not know if that is true, though I have tried to fathom if that really could be the case.

[Nichi]

Despite this "evil" acts in Germany, Don Miguel have had some ideas that Hitler did not create any bad Karma. I do not know if that is true, though I have tried to fathom if that really could be the case.

Back in my spiritualist days, this topic was periodically visited, and it was asserted that if AH "learned the lesson", his karma would be ameliorated.  But it certainly is unfathomable!

[erik]

Samsara is the world/reality that exists within our minds. Full realisation of samsara is liberation. How many ways exist to realise what samsara is? How far one has to push the limits of samsara to realise that it is?