Topic: Destiny, Fate, and Accidents

[daphne]

What is your experience?  Your reality?  *smiles*

heh  you got me there!   

*smiles* Yes I did!!  It's a game.  It's a giant belief system in which I play.  It is remunerative.  It's a "practice" in acceptance and a demonstration of most of the ways the belief system of duplicity is applied.

People's renumerative activity has always fascinated me. I find my own reflects in many ways that which provides the clues to my own seeking.

I'm acknowledging and appreciating your interest.  :-)  Reality matters.  Experience matters.  Beliefs do not, unless we want them to.

Thank you. I like to explore my beliefs. In hindsight I have found many of them rather limiting. On the other hand, I rather enjoy lack of belief although I do hold to some. I find that some reinforce my reality. Sometimes it's what I want. At others times I find it a hindrance.

[Gunslinger]

 

Anybody that looks finds that what they do provides clues to their seeking.  Believe it or else, mine does that for me.  DUH! *smiles*

I can't emphasize this enough...Noticing is 99% of everything in this.

In your paragraph on beliefs, that's it in a nutshell.  You've got the noticing, addressing, and the acceptance down.  After that, they all just become preferences and opinions, and like opinions, everyone's got those!!

I'm acknowledging this a lot!!  KEWEL! 

[nichi]

I'm starting to see this constant evaluation of beliefs, concomitant with a "positive thinking" stance, as a grand ruse, to convince ourselves (deludedly) that we are in control --- that everything-is-okay, everything-is-okay, "if we want it to be".  It's very sneaky, and I'm sure it's not what Jane Roberts intended.

I'm not just saying this in regards to you, Todd. In other settings, I've been witnessing a kind of amorality rising, so long as there is lipservice to the idea that we-create-our-own-reality.   Put together with some toltec concepts, it's the perfect feeding ground for manipulative sorts, and it breeds a black-and-white orientation, that if challenged, reveals itself to be quite brittle indeed.

It reminds me of an eating disorder I once had: anorexia (way over that now, heheh). How? In order to sustain and maintain the system, there has to be a near-obsession with it.  The ones who seem to "really believe" that their "beliefs" create everything present with the same high-strung edginess, which is also consistent with methamphetamine, speaking of anorexia. It feels like the ultimate obsession with the mirror, rather than with this very abundant world, universe, and spirit. Not to mention each other.   Engagement seems only to be in the cause of asserting this view, which cannot be let go of, at any cost.

The more I see discussion of it here, the more I'm convinced of how delusionary it is. Interesting that, eh? You would think prolonged exposure to it would make one more comfortable with it. Instead, it is reminding me of "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain," the more I see it, and my response to it becomes increasingly jaded.

Just my .02. Definitely of the gut.

[nichi]

and it breeds a black-and-white orientation, that if challenged, reveals itself to be quite brittle indeed.

While I was composing this, you were in the process of leaving these posts:
Action] Re: Destiny, Fate, and Accidents by nichi Today at 04:08:45 PM
[Action] These are both beliefs: WE"RE STUFFED!!! & GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE by Gunslinger Today at 04:02:47 PM
[Action] GLOBAL WARMING IS A BALDFACED LIE by Gunslinger

.... as if to demonstrate how brittle your position is!
When you must come on so strongly, you force your view ... that is not fluidity at all, Todd!

[Gunslinger]

While I was composing this, you were in the process of leaving these posts:
Action] Re: Destiny, Fate, and Accidents by nichi Today at 04:08:45 PM
[Action] These are both beliefs: WE"RE STUFFED!!! & GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE by Gunslinger Today at 04:02:47 PM
[Action] GLOBAL WARMING IS A BALDFACED LIE by Gunslinger

.... as if to demonstrate how brittle your position is!
When you must come on so strongly, you force your view ... that is not fluidity at all, Todd!

I have not posted in this thread since 11:26.  The 4:08 post is yours.

Is it not accurate to say that these are both beliefs? 
WE"RE STUFFED!!!
&
GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE

Is it not equally valid to make an emphasis on a subject line, so a graphic comparison can be made between it and another, equally inflammatory subject line?

If it is held not to be equally valid by one, and equally valid by another, who would be a bit brittle there?

Is it brittel to react so strongly, or is it more fluid to precisely calculate the exact effect one wishes to have in demonstrating a belief system and the brittleness and automatic responses it provokes?

Finally, some realities are being intentionally created here by indviduals, and some realities are being intentionally defaulted by others to be created for them.

These are just words on a screen.  How people react to them is up to them, and that is precisely my point.  Not only do we create our own reality, only we are responsible for it.

[erik]

Nope, for there is much more validity in claim 'We're stuffed!'.

It is based on someone's seeing.

Seeing does not verify the claim that global warming is not happening.

[nichi]

These are just words on a screen.  How people react to them is up to them, and that is precisely my point. 

And this is what I mean by "amorality". We are responsible for our words, and the intent behind them.

[Jennifer-]

We create our own reality... to me, is restricted to a tonal tool for finding out 'we/I' don't.

A starting point in breaking down our own 'reality' which leaves us with a sense of control of things, best not to get too comfy in that control.. if one seeks to move further beyond. It all depends on the person or situation, if one is seeking to remain within the tonal, this can be an open door for them. If one seeks to move beyond that.. it locks the door.

[Gunslinger]

Nope, for there is much more validity in claim 'We're stuffed!'.

It is based on someone's seeing.

Seeing does not verify the claim that global warming is not happening.

Really?  Who says?  I have my own scientists you have yours.  You may see, I may see, and our experiences are one offs, never to be repeated.  Reactions to my provokations are illustrating exactly what I wanted to, the power of beliefs.

You asked me if I actually create physical reality?  I just did, and you just let me create yours.

[Gunslinger]

And this is what I mean by "amorality". We are responsible for our words, and the intent behind them.

Morality is not absolute, or would you be agreeing with the Christian Fundies that they are?  I am responsible for my words.  I am not responsible for how you take them.  You let me provoke your automatic responses, with words that were not directed personally, insulting, degrading, or lewd.  Thus, you LET ME create your reality.  And that is the ONLY way I can create your reality--with your consent.

[erik]

Really?  Who says?  I have my own scientists you have yours.  You may see, I may see, and our experiences are one offs, never to be repeated.  Reactions to my provokations are illustrating exactly what I wanted to, the power of beliefs.

You asked me if I actually create physical reality?  I just did, and you just let me create yours.

Are you seer?

[nichi]

Is it not accurate to say that these are both beliefs? 
WE"RE STUFFED!!!
&
GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE

No, the intent of the two are completely different. Michael came in, excited/disturbed about what he discovered through his explorations and seeing.
Yours is a response to Michael the person, on a whole different level.

Why would M "lie"? Why would I "lie"? There's another piece of the intent of your titles there --- as if someone is trying to pull something over on someone. Hence, there is a thread of provocativeness, if not hostility, inherent in your titles.

As  for your position that it's a lie, Todd, all I can say is that you have bought the darker agenda. We went round and round about this before the Iraqi war -- I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. But the same stuff behind the us position on the Iraqi War is what is behind this idea in the culture right now, that "global warming is a lie". Some agree with you, like Rush Limbaugh, and various other right-wing spin doctors.

But understand, I don't come by my conclusion based on politics --- I base it on the hair on my arms and the color of the sky and something else I perceive, which is a long story for another time.

[Gunslinger]

We create our own reality... to me, is restricted to a tonal tool for finding out 'we/I' don't.

A starting point in breaking down our own 'reality' which leaves us with a sense of control of things, best not to get too comfy in that control.. if one seeks to move further beyond. It all depends on the person or situation, if one is seeking to remain within the tonal, this can be an open door for them. If one seeks to move beyond that.. it locks the door.

Having been on the edge of losing control, I know this.  I also know that that is also an illusion.  This whole experiment that we call our lives is for each person to experience and create what they want.  It is okay whether or not they also learn that they do control the experiment, or not.

I am very tightly bound to the tonal.  I know this.  I accept that, even though I've scared the shit out of myself learning it.  I would posit that holding tight to the tonal is only control of the tonal, and I intend to find out whether the same objective awareness, control and will can be exerted with equal intent in the Nagual.

If not, then Eric is correct.  Or, it could be that anything other than our objective awareness (the tonal) is an entheogenic hallucination.

From my dreams, I gather that neither of the last two are True.

[Gunslinger]

Are you seer?

A pointless question rife with baited trap.  It's irrelevant, and matters not.

[Gunslinger]

I don't care whether Michael, or you are Santa Clause said it.  That it was said and the reaction to it's opposite said with equal energy, caused a reaction that illustrated my point, the power of beliefs and how we create our own reality, and that we are responsible for it.

You know, I don't know what Michael said as a result of his disturbance.  If he's half the seer I think he is, it wasn't what any of us think it was that disturbed him.

You know what?  I have brought no agenda from the Darker Side.  There ain't no such thing, except in the belief systems of the people that hold to it's existance.

And, I've learned a thing or two since the Iraq war.  THERE AIN'T NO RIGHT OR WRONG ON EITHER SIDE.  It's just people learning that there's no Absolutes, and the power of beliefs and their consequences, especially the power of the belief in absolutes.  People are losing their heads, women get the crap beat out of them for showing a wrist, boys are going to war to fight for opinions on both sides, to which they hold absolute belief.

When people start taking responsibilty for their own beliefs, for their own realities, wars and climate change will be unnecessary to be illustrating to us how foolish we are.

The only agenda involved is all of ours, to be understanding this.

Until then, I shall be speaking.  Rush Limbaugh and Ahmadinejad notwithstanding.