Topic: Stoicism...Buddhism...?

[Doubting Thomas]

Stoicism emerged some 200 years after Buddhism in a very different (ancient Roman) world, but the similarities between the two worldviews are remarkable.

Suffering
One of the most immediate similarities between Stoicism and Buddhism is that they were both founded through the existence of suffering. Zeno suffered a shipwreck and lost everything, which led to the founding of Stoicism. Buddha had never seen suffering until he visited the world. The grim realization that suffering exists was what compelled him to seek the truth and create Buddhism. Both of them had more material possessions than most. And yet it was the lack of material possessions that eventually led to the birth of Stoicism and Buddhism. The relationship between the two philosophies and suffering doesn’t end at their origins, but more on this later.

Stoicism

“The happiness of your life depend upon the quality of your thoughts.” – Marcus Aurelius

The goal of Stoicism is to live according to nature. To the Stoics, living according to nature is to live virtuously, wisely, and logically. Because it is human nature to reason, to be virtuous, and to be wise, for those are things only humans are capable of.

Stoicism has 4 Cardinal Virtues to live by: Wisdom, Justice, Courage, and Temperance.
- Wisdom is to act rationally and see the world with objectivity.
- Justice is to treat others with fairness and kindness.
- Courage is to be brave in the face of adversity, to realize that fear does more harm than the thing we fear.
- Temperance is self-mastery, the ability to resist temptations and to choose virtue over vice.

One of the most important aspects of living according to nature is the ability to focus on the things in life you can control, and not allowing the external world to dictate your emotions or happiness. This is called the Stoic dichotomy of control. All external things are indifferent to Stoics, that’s not to say that the Stoics don’t care about anything, but instead, they accept everything that happens with equanimity. Stoics believe that external things alone cannot cause emotions or suffering, but rather our judgments of those external things. So, in a nutshell, Stoicism is the art of controlling your own emotions, using rational judgment, and seeing the world objectively, resulting in living a more virtuous and happy life.

Buddhism

“The mind is everything. What you think you become.” – Buddha

The goal of Buddhism is to reach enlightenment, or Nirvana, by eliminating one’s attachment to desires and living in the moment.

Buddhists believe in the 4 Noble Truths developed by the Buddha
- Dukkha – Life is Suffering.
- Samudaya – Suffering is caused by attachment and desire.
- Nirodha – It is possible to escape the cycle of Suffering.
- Magga – The Noble Eightfold Path is the way to end suffering.

The Noble Eightfold Path is not a linear path. The eight steps “are to be developed more or less simultaneously, as far as possible according to the capacity of each individual. They are all linked together and each helps the cultivation of the others.”

The Noble Eightfold Path looks something like this:
1. Right view – to understand the 4 Noble Truths.
2. Right resolve – have the right intentions and motivation to pursue enlightenment.
3. Right speech – speak only the truth, without lies or harm.
4. Right action – do not harm a living thing; do not steal; do not do wrong.
5. Right livelihood – earn your living ethically.
6. Right effort – always strive to be better.
7. Right mindfulness – live in the moment.
8. Right concentration – the ability to focus on one thing with all your attention.

By following the Noble Eightfold Path, you can reach Nirvana, the state of which suffering, desire, and the sense of self cease to exist.

https://thestoicsage.com/stoicism-and-buddhism/

[Doubting Thomas]

Similarities:

Moderation is Key

“Temperance is a tree which as for its root very little contentment, and for its fruit calm and peace.” – Buddha

Stoicism and Buddhism both try to eliminate excess. Both philosophies understand that pleasure or material possessions are not a necessity in life, nor are they required for happiness. The Stoics are indifferent to material possessions or pleasure, they are preferred, but the lack of it does not affect a Stoic’s ability to live virtuously and happily. One of the 4 Stoic virtues, Temperance, can also be translated to moderation.
Buddhists avoid both excess and deficiency. To a Buddhist, having enough is enough, no more, no less. Too much can distract one from the Noble Eightfold Path, while too little could hinder one’s ability to follow it.
One important difference to note here is that Stoicism is more “lenient” than Buddhism when it comes to moderation. Stoics have a practice of voluntary discomfort, which is essentially an exercise in extreme lack of pleasure or comfort, in order to gain resilience and perspective. It is also possible for a Stoic to live a “glamorous lifestyle” so long as it is also a virtuous one.
But all in all, Stoicism and Buddhism understands the dangers of having too much or too little of anything.

Suffering Comes From the Mind

“A man is as unhappy as he has convinced himself he is.” – Seneca

Stoics and Buddhists can both agree that pain is real, but suffering comes from the mind. Buddhists believe that suffering comes from our attachment to desires, while Stoics believe that suffering comes from our judgment to external events.
A Buddhist eliminates suffering by detaching himself from his desires.
A Stoic eliminates suffering by being indifferent to all external events.
Despite the two philosophies’ attempt to minimize suffering, both Stoicism and Buddism don’t see suffering as a bad thing.
Buddha understood that all life is suffering and to live is to suffer.
Stoics taught that suffering makes us who we are, and it is a great thing to bear one’s suffering worthily. If you are in pain, a Stoic would tell you that your pain is real, but your suffering is only caused by your judgment of the pain. See it as it a good thing, for it is an opportunity for virtue, and it makes you stronger. If you cannot bear it, it would have taken your life, so make peace with it, and it will not bother you.

“The wise man accepts his pain, endures it, but does not add to it.” – Marcus Aurelius

A Buddhist would tell you that your pain is real, but you are only suffering because you desire not to be in pain. Do away with that desire and the suffering disappears. Pain only lasts a moment, more precisely this particular moment you are living. So live with the pain for only this moment, and you will be able to bear it for eternally.

“Pain is certain, suffering is optional.” – Buddha

In a sense, Stoicism and Buddhism both deal with suffering by understanding its role in life and making peace with it.

Living in the Moment

It is no secret that mindful living is an essential part of Buddism. If you are truly living in the moment, it is impossible to have desires. Because to have a desire is to imagine having something you don’t, which is the opposite of mindful living. However, don’t be surprised when a Stoic places just as much importance on being in the present moment. As mentioned, it is a foundational part of Stoicism to focus on what you can control in life, and not let what’s outside of your control bother you.
Well… the past is certainly outside of anyone’s control. What has happened has already happened, there is no point dwelling on it. The same goes for the future, what has yet to happen is also not within your control. The only thing you can control is how you live in the present. Here’s a quote from the Stoic, Seneca the Younger, which beautifully encapsulates both Stoicism and Buddism’s idea of living in the moment:

“True happiness is to enjoy the present, without anxious dependence upon the future, not to amuse ourselves with either hopes or fears but to rest satisfied with what we have, which is sufficient, for he that is so wants nothing.” — Seneca

Walking the Walk

“However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?” – Buddha

The reason both Stoicism and Buddhism are still attracting followers and practitioners more than 2,000 years after their inception, is because they are both practical philosophies that help people live better lives. Even though the two philosophies are both orientated around living a good life by first changing the way one thinks, it is still a goal that requires constant action.
Buddhism has the Noble Eightfold Path, which more or less presents a clear path and way of life for one to follow.
While Stoicism has the 4 Stoic Virtues, which are principles one can follow by focusing on the things in life that can be controlled.

“Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” – Marcus Aurelius

https://thestoicsage.com/stoicism-and-buddhism/

[Michael]

Curiously, I've just been reading about, what some call 'nature-based religions'. That is, not deity based. Stemming from natural laws rather and divine will. The difficulty for me in these is that they worshipped humanity. Many accepted the existence of gods or spirits, but marginalised these as inessential to the primacy and potential inherent in the core of humans individually or collectively. In fact, one could term such religions as worshippers of the superhuman.

The trajectory follows from animism where humans were on par with all other entities, seen or unseen. Then came polytheism which elevated the animist view to a more structured and abstract divine landscape, but kept the possibilities open and retained a more subdued human status. With monotheism, we entered a special, dedicated and sacred relationship between one supreme deity and the pivotal place of humans as exclusive. The whole point was that each human, and human community, had a unique and special connection to God. And further, they were jealous of any competitors, who must be destroyed.

In practice, none of this worked out quite that way, and academics coined a word to describe the mix of all of these - syncretism.

Then came the natural-law based creeds, but they borrowed much from the human-centric monotheist religious evolutionary phase, only leaving out God and replacing it with the Worship of Man. Rejecting gods as irrelevant, they focused on the inner human essence as the purpose and meaning of life. These are, to name a few, Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, Stoicism, Cynicism, Epicureanism, liberalism, Communism, capitalism, nationalism, Nazism and Humanism.

[Firestarter]

Dont inlude Buddhism in that list.

Its other Buddhists who said God is Irrelevant. Buddha didnt answer when asked about God.

He used the Power of Silence.

So he wasnt denying a Creator. I know many have said this whole "irrelevant" thing and he was not a nihilist or humanist. You start defining or answering like if he said "Yes" that is going to form something in mind. He also made sure no one perceived him as a God himself. He shyed away from it and didnt want that. Now if you go into a temple or zendo he is pure light and holy yes. He is respected. But no one prays to the Buddha of course.

But him being silent doesnt mean he didnt believe. Personally, I suspect he did. But that "question" a person has to figure out for themselves and has to be experienced. If he put that into words Buddhism would have become a religion (I know its considered but real Buddhists dont consider it one), vs a Philosophy (that is what it really is).

Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path is a strategy which is not easy but totally doable to achieve Nirvana. Obviously its an annhilation but he became one with THAT but he didnt dare define that or say God is or is not cause to do that people would as he knew - get stupid with it.

So leave him off the list. Buddhism doesnt belong on it.