Topic: The Active Side of Infinity

[Firestarter]

I switched over to this tonight. I felt the need to immerse myself in the dialogs about the foreign installation. But in the beginning of the book, Don Juan tells Carlos to make an album of memories. But Don Juan specifically tells Carlos to create an album as an act of war.

It is funny cause since last year, I have printed dozens of photos. But I also printed different art and images. So I have this family album. But I do also have this grimore thing Tiana gave me some time ago. In an apartment abandoned she found it. Maybe this is what I’ve been waiting to do with it. Create an album as an act of war.

I’m always open to a good war *rubs hands together*

[Firestarter]

So reading how Carlos was reminicing how he went to find don Juan again after meeting him in Arizona. But don Juan saying, that infinity brought him to him. It definitely was an appointment of power. But don Juan, when speaking of the Naguals Elias and Julian, says that a nagual is empty. And that emptiness is like, infinity personified.

I think this might be the attractor I had with the warriors over the years, the thing I sensed in them that I liked. I don't think only naguals are empty. I don't think they are the only ones with this type of configuration. There are empty folks with power walking around. But it is naguals who have the power to get a group to the infinite. At least, I think it's the difference. Or at least, they can make it hella easier. Now, I do think a person alone could do it, not being a nagual. But this may take lifetimes upon lifetimes. They still need someone to break the mirror of self-reflection. We can see how folks are hooked on it, all the time. And if anything, they are going deeper and deeper into it. For example, I can easily point to all the young Instagram girls who are hooked on that mirror, and suffering for it. Like, as many filter their photos, there are many poor young girls who have gone to plastic surgeons, to look like their filter photos. They are proverbially hooked on their reflection. But course, I know the mirror goes deeper. It's a hook on the identity as well. And yes, they are still a sad example in what is happening.

Rambling a bit. But that emptiness is necessary. But I don't think it is exclusive to the naguals. I do think the warrior can achieve it, of course, if they make the appointment with infinity, and can handle the blows of the indescribable force.

[Firestarter]

I'm up at the chapter The Breaking Point. It discusses inner silence. And when don Juan tells Carlos he has to say goodbye to all his friends.

Now these friends, I suspect were not soul tribe. But daily world friends. He tells Carlos to find a slummy hotel to hang out in. One with either a window, he can watch humans walking around in human misery. Or facing a wall. On one end, if he saw the people, he would wish he had a wall to face. If he faced a wall, he would wish he could watch the people walk.

"A sorcerer uses a place like that to die,' he said, looking at me with an unblinking stare. 'You have never been alone in your life. That is the time to do it. You will stay in that room until you die.''

Now this struck me, and reminded me, last year when I did, oh 5 or 6 days in the hotel. The day before, the idiot had come banging on my door, jolting me. I didn't open it. I ran upstairs. Stupidly left my phone downstairs. Got ahold of some folks cause my pc was upstairs. Then the kid came home. It had left. But I felt unsafe.

That night, I ubered an order of a very big knife, and a bat. And probably some booze. I was like, if he comes back, and gets through the door, I will kali that ass.

Now next day, I had no sleep. I was restless the whole time. I called the apt, asked them for another apt. They said they had no other places I could move into. I didn't want him knowing where I lived. I had dealt with countless voice mails, emails, told him go kick rocks. But now? So after I got off the phone, on total lack of sleep I was like "why just sit here? What is stopping me from leaving?" I packed some shit and left.

I drove around awhile deciding which hotel to stay in. I went to one, the young girl was brand new, and could not figure out the pc system. I walked out.

I drove some more then chose a Sleep Inn. I got in the room and it had slogans all over about dreaming, and sleeping. I was like yes, here it is, face the dream.

I  drank a lot, ordered junk, and entertained myself. I grabbed a pack and smoked again.

But you know, when I left. I left ready for war. I see exactly why don Juan said to do this. What he was telling Carlos to do, is what I basically did. I left some old self behind. And 8 cans of truly, never to saturate myself in booze again.

Nah ah. I had to be awake and aware. There was way too much going on here. I had been inundated by downloads, and I had to move.

So I get it. I totally get it. I am pretty sure, I died in that place.

Good.

[Firestarter]

Getting to the tail end of the book, finally! I came across this part where don Juan discusses the differences with sorcerers and people per death. The developing differences. I think the lack of developing awareness, an inner life, only following the shenanigans of the daily world way, and taking everyone elses word for spirituality and what lies beyond, is a big reason for the downfall of folks.

Now I don't think (argue with don Juan a bit) one absolutely HAS to be a sorcerer to make it. But they do have to be working on themselves. I mean if you don't meditate at all, how could one possibly attain the cohesion they need when crossing over? If totally attached to the physical body, and there is no sense of self, I don't see how it could be done.

[Michael]

This is no easy task. Anyone functioning on the path of knowledge is limited by their connections. If you have connections to aeons of knowledge you have both an advantage and disadvantage. The difficulty with all paths of knowledge is that they enhance our speed, but they also entrap. DJ spoke a lot about the entrapments of the sorcery lineages of Mesoamerica.

It has always been my view that a life without a grasp on the meaning of death, and the journey beyond death, is simply devoid of intelligence.

I have never been able to have a proper discussion about death with anyone I've associated with in the physical world. I've pondered the reasons, and come up with a few. Firstly, people don't know about death. Real death lies hidden far behind a psychological barrier. Recently a friend of ours has contracted a number of life threatening illnesses, and to our surprise he has been completely rocked, and only after a year of disturbed behaviour, is beginning to exhibit a new personality - much more open and less arrogantly egotistical. The reason for our shock was, how could he have reached this age, in company with quite an advanced group of friends, and not known intimately about death? Well, we do understand, but we were surprised nonetheless.

There is an emotional barrier to looking at death, and before one can have a proper discussion about it, that barrier must be broken through. Very few people have died before they die.

Secondly, to have a proper discussion about death, one has to have studied it. Examined the many views from multiple traditions and cultures. Mostly, what one finds there is rubbish and fantasy, but the process of study is important in itself, because all these fantasies need to be placed in some landscape, in order to navigate.

Thirdly, the examination and discussion about death and how to approach the process of dying, requires one has developed the energy to sustain such a conversation, and focus. Most people tire quickly.

For me, the fact of death is the single most significant event in life - everything else falls into emptiness. The first step, after passing through all the other barriers mentioned above, is to comprehend what DJ said in Ellen's page about boundaries. The boundaries that hold us together by dint of our life force, dissipate on death, so we must transfer the sustaining of those boundaries into our energetic essence, that upon the retraction of life force, we can maintain them from within.

Once this point is grasped, then comes the strategy of how to achieve that transference. This is the nub of my new book, 'Identity'. Then, everything in life acts to support that transference. And we can leave the question of death temporarily aside until we have successfully transferred sufficient to try again to catch a glimpse of the dark mystery of death.

Once we have those measures embedded in our life, we can also begin to expand consciousness to absorb as much scope and variety of experience to store away into our spirit body - this is called building the aura.

[Bornamber]

I made a post recently titled “podcast” about being drawn to this woman and how my dreaming changed in an interesting way once I began moving in her direction.

Anyhow..,she studies dreaming deeply. And she wrote a book recently (fiction) called Any Human Power and it begins with death ….and how the most important part of dreaming is learning how to die.

Her name is Manda Scott.

I’ve heard her say we have lived in a “trauma” culture for ages and ages because we’ve lost initiation rights. These initiations would make us meet death … and we had to learn how to ask for help. Without that initiation we remained in adolescence.

She also mentions in dreaming one should learn to state who they are. If they can do that in dreaming they can do that in the death landscape (if one can recognize the death landscape).

However …she also mentions how most cultures do mention one should “go towards the sun” in death. Also mentions one should cut off all those attachments made to people during life …..

I am curious your opinion on these last two points

[Firestarter]

It is interesting what don Juan said too, that the sorcerers survive as inorganics as long as Earth is alive - it is their Matrix. I suspected as much, we always will have roots to Earth.

[Michael]

"we have lived in a “trauma” culture for ages and ages because we’ve lost initiation rights. These initiations would make us meet death … and we had to learn how to ask for help. Without that initiation we remained in adolescence."

We may live in a trauma culture, but that word has been excessively overused in current times. Far too much banging-on these days about trauma - everyone is claiming to be traumatised for one reason or another.

I do think she is onto something about the loss of initiation passages, but that has happened ever since the agrarian transition. Initiations happen, regardless of whether they are ritualised or not. It is a natural process - a transition accompanied by a significant event. The particular initiation of transition to adulthood is of primary importance for men, and its absence in modern global culture is surely a cause of adolescent behaviour and attitude. Women are initiated when they get their periods. Spiritual initiations are a different thing, and significant events in this regard do not mean an initiation - there has to be intent and knowledge. But any person seriously on a spiritual path will, by sheer dint of that path itself, at some point undergo initiations.

"in dreaming one should learn to state who they are" nicely said, although it is extremely difficult to say one's own name in dreaming, but certainly possible. As for the connection of the dream and death landscapes, indeed this is critical, but it is a big issue.

'Going towards the light' is the usual term used. Ellen asked me about this recently and I declined to get into the weeds on it. To start, always be cautious of any near-death experience stories, because for some time after physical death we retain our physical world view, and thus interpret what we see from that perspective. It is always conditioned by within-life constructs.

A good example of this I heard recently from John Wren Lewis in an interview, where he referenced this point in describing how many near-death stories spoke of going through a tunnel towards the light. He explained that this was not going towards heaven of god, but back to life from out of the 'darkness' of infinity. His whole thing is that the darkness of infinity is not a vacuum but infused with conscious energy - it is the darkness that hold the key to existential meaning. In this case, 'going for the light' may well mean reverting to another incarnation speedily because for most people, being away from the familiar is terrifying.

I tend to follow Steiner's views that there is a long and important process to go through, as the 'default' post death path, and the more one has inquired into the mysteries of existence, the longer that pathway. Until one reverts to the core of our being, and when ready, issues forth once again on a new incarnation by initially attracting to our spirit all the necessary awarenesses which eventually prepare us for the task in the next life.

Sorcerers divert from the default path, and roam the infinite universe. Yet, even they have a question of for how long do they put off the default process of complete renewal.

[Firestarter]

"we have lived in a “trauma” culture for ages and ages because we’ve lost initiation rights. These initiations would make us meet death … and we had to learn how to ask for help. Without that initiation we remained in adolescence."

We may live in a trauma culture, but that word has been excessively overused in current times. Far too much banging-on these days about trauma - everyone is claiming to be traumatised for one reason or another.

I do think she is onto something about the loss of initiation passages, but that has happened ever since the agrarian transition. Initiations happen, regardless of whether they are ritualised or not. It is a natural process - a transition accompanied by a significant event. The particular initiation of transition to adulthood is of primary importance for men, and its absence in modern global culture is surely a cause of adolescent behaviour and attitude. Women are initiated when they get their periods. Spiritual initiations are a different thing, and significant events in this regard do not mean an initiation - there has to be intent and knowledge. But any person seriously on a spiritual path will, by sheer dint of that path itself, at some point undergo initiations.

"in dreaming one should learn to state who they are" nicely said, although it is extremely difficult to say one's own name in dreaming, but certainly possible. As for the connection of the dream and death landscapes, indeed this is critical, but it is a big issue.

'Going towards the light' is the usual term used. Ellen asked me about this recently and I declined to get into the weeds on it. To start, always be cautious of any near-death experience stories, because for some time after physical death we retain our physical world view, and thus interpret what we see from that perspective. It is always conditioned by within-life constructs.

A good example of this I heard recently from John Wren Lewis in an interview, where he referenced this point in describing how many near-death stories spoke of going through a tunnel towards the light. He explained that this was not going towards heaven of god, but back to life from out of the 'darkness' of infinity. His whole thing is that the darkness of infinity is not a vacuum but infused with conscious energy - it is the darkness that hold the key to existential meaning. In this case, 'going for the light' may well mean reverting to another incarnation speedily because for most people, being away from the familiar is terrifying.

I tend to follow Steiner's views that there is a long and important process to go through, as the 'default' post death path, and the more one has inquired into the mysteries of existence, the longer that pathway. Until one reverts to the core of our being, and when ready, issues forth once again on a new incarnation by initially attracting to our spirit all the necessary awarenesses which eventually prepare us for the task in the next life.

Sorcerers divert from the default path, and roam the infinite universe. Yet, even they have a question of for how long do they put off the default process of complete renewal.

Took you long enough to answer my question!

I actually also heard from someone who said, avoid that initial light, cause it leads to the recycle bin, and hold out and wait in the void for the actual way out - a different light that can show. So I have been thinking on this some time. I have seen, shit, maybe a few hundred folks, or reading on it, NDES over time. They all get sent back. So obviously we only have their accounts. But a thing which shows in most, is hit the void, darkness, then a pinpoint of light which gets bigger, walk around, meet folks, maybe loved ones, then go back. So I do think at least one of these lights is a big recycler. But I don't think it's the only way out of this dark void deal.

[Michael]

Keep in mind that the Tibetan Buddhist teaching for tulkus is to head for the light asap. Maybe this is why they return so soon.

[Firestarter]

So I finally finished it last night. I read over the Mud Shadows chapter talking about the predator and flyers. How they gave us our mind, the beliefs. But it makes perfect sense, discipline is the way out. He said this will make the flyers flee and get back the glowing coat of awareness, that the flyers feast on that drains us. It is very interesting, why I am reading these again, to look at the world in 2024, and be much older when I found CC, and re-read. Then get to the sad part, where don Juan, leaves with the warrior party, and then Carlos jumps into the abyss.

Then at the end I'm like, new timeline? Did Carlos die after the jump, wake up in a separate reality? It sure seems so, how else could he pull this off?

I resumed back to another shaman book I am reading, which interesting as it was mentioned on here, deals with trauma and healing.

I'lll try to get more on that soon. There is a big buzz on the state of trauma today. I wouldn't mind touching on that.

[Bornamber]

The fiction novel I mentioned I had started where the author immediately starts with a journey into the death realm and the need to “go into the light”…..well…the main character does NOT go into the light immediately so I suppose I will be learning more about that soon. She also describes how the main character goes into the void to learn about different timelines and work on changing them (which is why she didn’t go into the light)

[Firestarter]

The fiction novel I mentioned I had started where the author immediately starts with a journey into the death realm and the need to “go into the light”…..well…the main character does NOT go into the light immediately so I suppose I will be learning more about that soon. She also describes how the main character goes into the void to learn about different timelines and work on changing them (which is why she didn’t go into the light)

That is interesting! I have contemplated on this hanging in the void for a bit. And I have seen countless accounts folks do hit a void so have to see what that is about. I do think I need to start meditating on the void more to get familiar with it.

[Bornamber]

You know. I never really thought about death … or what happens after … unless it was through the lens of “well this is the only life I get and I’m going to die so best make the best of it”. THAT awareness was strong.

But this conversation has ignited a new fear in me. You see … my current circumstances… although I’m making the best of it … are not exactly something I would ever want to repeat in another life. Or WORSE….face conditions more difficult than I am. And now that I’m aware that is entirely possible …and horrifying…..I feel much more compelled to make sure I don’t “mess up” after death.

I was kind of in love with life before … felt totally fine if I ended up recycling back in … just for the adventure of it.

I don’t feel that way anymore.

I have no idea what to do with this…but my motivation has shifted quite a bit from *this life* to …. The potential for a *next life* ::shudders::

[Dramática]

You know. I never really thought about death … or what happens after … unless it was through the lens of “well this is the only life I get and I’m going to die so best make the best of it”. THAT awareness was strong.

But this conversation has ignited a new fear in me. You see … my current circumstances… although I’m making the best of it … are not exactly something I would ever want to repeat in another life. Or WORSE….face conditions more difficult than I am. And now that I’m aware that is entirely possible …and horrifying…..I feel much more compelled to make sure I don’t “mess up” after death.

I was kind of in love with life before … felt totally fine if I ended up recycling back in … just for the adventure of it.

I don’t feel that way anymore.

I have no idea what to do with this…but my motivation has shifted quite a bit from *this life* to …. The potential for a *next life* ::shudders::

I've said it before. And I'll say it again. I ain't coming back here.

If I have any say whatsoever there's zero chance I'm willing to return.

The idea we're forced back makes me feel I would likely put up a fight the entire time. I won't come back easy.