Author Topic: The enchantment of life  (Read 108 times)

Offline Michael

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The enchantment of life
« on: July 15, 2006, 11:23:40 AM »
Ask yourself these questions, try it out on your companions.
Don’t quibble over wording or misunderstandings –
use it as a tool to help move something inside.
But take not how many people dodge the inner work by splitting hairs over words and issues that protect them from the real task of always seeking anything that can help our reaching for the core of our life.


1.   Will to live – do you believe you have this?



2.   If you knew you were to die today – would that bother you?



3.   Have you ever been in a very difficult situation in which you had to struggle hard to succeed?



4.   How do you see yourself in a classic survival situation – lost in a boat at sea, in the wilderness, Nazi concentration camp, Guantanamo Bay etc?
What type of person would you be?



5.   You are captured by a ruthless dictator, who decides to kill you, but for her own pleasure she has devised a wicked mental torture. 
You are given a choice:

In the next room is a person in serious trauma.  You can help this person today, who won’t die if you don’t but will have a much happier life if you do, and will always be grateful to you.  But you will be killed tonight. 

OR 

If you ignore the person in trauma and shift that large pile of dirt outside (for no reason at all) then you will be set free alive.

What is your choice: help the traumatised person and die, or ignore the person, shift the dirt and live?



6.   Choice Version 2 – you will die at end of week, but you could live if you find the one thing that will save you.  How much effort could you see yourself putting into finding that one thing?  Would you leave no stone unturned, both day and night, or would you put in a token effort then sit back and compose yourself for death?



7.   How much have you investigated the question of survival of consciousness after death?



8.   Have you simply adopted a belief or attitude to it without any serious study and effort?



9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?



10.   Do you notice any difference in your attitude to survival pre-death, to survival post-death?



11.   Scenario:
Click!
You experience a moment of extreme epiphany unparalleled in your life.
You are informed by an indisputable source, that nothing exists after death for all creatures - it is in fact the END.  Bonk!
But also you are told a secret – that there is one way for every creature to survive death intact, and sustain consciousness indefinitely.

You are told this technique, of permanent consciousness.  You are asked to pick a box:

Would you be more interested in sharing this secret with other people,
or in helping them live more fruitfully until they die forever?



-----
What is the next most significant thing coming to us in the future?  Surely it’s our death?  At least it would have to be up there with really big ones.  And yet how little thought and time do we give to a serious investigation of this event from every possible side?  Why are we so enchanted with life that we ignore this huge gaping hole at the end of our highway?

Surely the advantage of permanence is blatant, why would we not see that as critical.  Why is it ignored in a culture like the modern global one, and yet essential to many other cultures?  How much are we mesmerised by our cultural attitudes?

m

niamhspark

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2006, 03:27:58 PM »
Ask yourself these questions, try it out on your companions.
Don’t quibble over wording or misunderstandings –
use it as a tool to help move something inside.
But take not how many people dodge the inner work by splitting hairs over words and issues that protect them from the real task of always seeking anything that can help our reaching for the core of our life

1.   Will to live – do you believe you have this?

Yes.

Quote

2.   If you knew you were to die today – would that bother you?


Yes, because I'm not done living.

Quote

3.   Have you ever been in a very difficult situation in which you had to struggle hard to succeed?

Definitely. And am challenged as of now even!

Quote


4.   How do you see yourself in a classic survival situation – lost in a boat at sea, in the wilderness, Nazi concentration camp, Guantanamo Bay etc?
What type of person would you be?

I cant say I'd do well in the Holocaust. I wonder how anyone could survive that, even just emotionally for that matter. But like many human beings surprise us, I'd probably surprise myself in the will to survive. I think human beings have a strong will to survive in certain situations which seem impossible. It's any means necessary at such points.

Quote

5.   You are captured by a ruthless dictator, who decides to kill you, but for her own pleasure she has devised a wicked mental torture. 
You are given a choice:

In the next room is a person in serious trauma.  You can help this person today, who won’t die if you don’t but will have a much happier life if you do, and will always be grateful to you.  But you will be killed tonight. 

OR 

If you ignore the person in trauma and shift that large pile of dirt outside (for no reason at all) then you will be set free alive.

What is your choice: help the traumatised person and die, or ignore the person, shift the dirt and live?

Since you didn't specify the trauma, I'm going to have to say I'd shift the dirt outside. That may sound mean, but while it may sound kind to help the traumatized person, I'm being honest that my survival is important to me, also because they have a chance of surviving the trauma and we may both survive if I shift th dirt. I wouldn't ask someone to give up their life if I were traumatized or in a bad situation myself.

Quote

6.   Choice Version 2 – you will die at end of week, but you could live if you find the one thing that will save you.  How much effort could you see yourself putting into finding that one thing?  Would you leave no stone unturned, both day and night, or would you put in a token effort then sit back and compose yourself for death?

I'd search for what would save me. If I'm going to be struck down in the middle of searching so be it.

Quote


7.   How much have you investigated the question of survival of consciousness after death?

Not a tremendous amount. Only because there are many who write about survival after death and have various ideas on it. I feel like inside I 'know' we can survive in the afterlife. I feel that one door closes and another one opens. That life is a continuous strand that we go through, that it doesn't simply end there. But as I'm alive right now and not in the afterlife, have no 'proof' necessarily, I can only yield to my intuition on this for now.

Quote
8.   Have you simply adopted a belief or attitude to it without any serious study and effort?

No. If anything I've spent more years shedding beliefs than gaining them.

Quote


9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?

I don't think it needs to be discovered, but developed.

Quote
10.   Do you notice any difference in your attitude to survival pre-death, to survival post-death?

yes, but only cause to me there is a difference between the two existences, even if I'm the same person.

Quote
11.   Scenario:
Click!
You experience a moment of extreme epiphany unparalleled in your life.
You are informed by an indisputable source, that nothing exists after death for all creatures - it is in fact the END.  Bonk!
But also you are told a secret – that there is one way for every creature to survive death intact, and sustain consciousness indefinitely.

You are told this technique, of permanent consciousness.  You are asked to pick a box:

Would you be more interested in sharing this secret with other people,
or in helping them live more fruitfully until they die forever?

I'd share the means to survive death intact.

Quote
-----
What is the next most significant thing coming to us in the future?  Surely it’s our death?  At least it would have to be up there with really big ones.  And yet how little thought and time do we give to a serious investigation of this event from every possible side?  Why are we so enchanted with life that we ignore this huge gaping hole at the end of our highway?

Because you can't solely focus on death and the afterlife. I believe this 'life' and how you develop it sets the pace for after death. I think it is foolhearted to forget about living or living well. While I do believe we do need to place importance on death and the afterlife, never at the expense of living life itself. This is where I tend to draw the line, because this seems to be a huge mistake, even with other religions, when they do forget the importance of how they live their life, too.

It's a give and take, and there shouldn't be any reason for people to be able to learn to live well, and at the same time, prepare themselves for what's up the road upon death and the hereafter. They both are parts of each other, so both parts must be developed.

Quote
Surely the advantage of permanence is blatant, why would we not see that as critical.  Why is it ignored in a culture like the modern global one, and yet essential to many other cultures?  How much are we mesmerised by our cultural attitudes?


I wouldn't say it's ignored, but it's out of balance. Either people are more concerned in where they go when they die (like a heaven or hell), or only concerned about the material and lack the spiritual drive. Those two things are both mistakes on the path.

[/quote]

Offline Michael

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2006, 03:13:51 AM »
very thorough niamh, Q 5 is the one that seems to create the greatest concern and sharpest distinctions.

One thing I see you haven't taken into account, is that although here and now is the sharp end, and thus the 'current' focus, what one expects on the other side determines what one does and how one does it on this side - to a very great degree. It is not possible to grasp life in the right way without first getting a reference point from the other side - that would be like saying which bus you catch has no relationship to where you want to travel to.

One other problem is that we tend to 'consider' the question of 'after death' exclusively in terms of the religion, and religious people, we know - meaning that as soon as we ask about post death we slip right into concepts current in our culture. Then we already have a few strong views about those people who believe those concepts, and that affects how we feel about the whole issue. That is a serious mistake - our concepts of post death should be absolutly free of our societies attitudes - it is far too serious.

I may get the time to continue this with some examples... that would explain better my words.

m

erik

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2006, 07:37:20 AM »
Interesting, M. I remember these questions from the time you asked them before, and strangely - I'd answer them very differently now. It would be quite an 'inhuman' way of thought, I'm afraid, yet feeling in harmony with my deeper recognition.  ::)

SoulFire

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2006, 10:49:19 AM »


9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?





What if?
This question makes me laugh.  How can it NOT exist?
 :-\

Taimi

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2006, 06:32:58 PM »


Quote
1.   Will to live – do you believe you have this?

Yes

Quote
2.   If you knew you were to die today – would that bother you?

I'm not sure, it would be interesting in some sense, though i'm not sure if i would be ready to sustain my conciousness.

Quote
3.   Have you ever been in a very difficult situation in which you had to struggle hard to succeed?

Yes

Quote
4.   How do you see yourself in a classic survival situation – lost in a boat at sea, in the wilderness, Nazi concentration camp, Guantanamo Bay etc?
What type of person would you be?

I think i would be quite calm. Live in the moment.

Quote
5.   You are captured by a ruthless dictator, who decides to kill you, but for her own pleasure she has devised a wicked mental torture. 
You are given a choice:

In the next room is a person in serious trauma.  You can help this person today, who won’t die if you don’t but will have a much happier life if you do, and will always be grateful to you.  But you will be killed tonight. 

OR 

If you ignore the person in trauma and shift that large pile of dirt outside (for no reason at all) then you will be set free alive.

What is your choice: help the traumatised person and die, or ignore the person, shift the dirt and live?

Shift the dirt and live


Quote
6.   Choice Version 2 – you will die at end of week, but you could live if you find the one thing that will save you.  How much effort could you see yourself putting into finding that one thing?  Would you leave no stone unturned, both day and night, or would you put in a token effort then sit back and compose yourself for death?

I think panicing and fear would not help. Probably i would look inside, recapitulate, try to see things in myself that still need to be worked on and work on them as much as possible to be as much prepared for the moment of death so that i could do the transition as clean as possible. And then just accept what comes.


Quote
7.   How much have you investigated the question of survival of consciousness after death?

8.   Have you simply adopted a belief or attitude to it without any serious study and effort?

9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?
7, 8, 9 - too difficult to put it in words. I believe that the key is developing awareness in everyday situations, making a difference between 'things' that you will be able to take with you, and what is left behind, that's what i try do do.

Quote
11.   Scenario:
Click!
You experience a moment of extreme epiphany unparalleled in your life.
You are informed by an indisputable source, that nothing exists after death for all creatures - it is in fact the END.  Bonk!
But also you are told a secret – that there is one way for every creature to survive death intact, and sustain consciousness indefinitely.

You are told this technique, of permanent consciousness.  You are asked to pick a box:

Would you be more interested in sharing this secret with other people,
or in helping them live more fruitfully until they die forever?

Sharing this secret with other people. Tho it would be quite pointless to talk about it to people who don't want to know.



Offline Muffin

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 02:32:03 AM »
1.   Will to live – do you believe you have this?
Moderate

2.   If you knew you were to die today – would that bother you?
No.

3.   Have you ever been in a very difficult situation in which you had to struggle hard to succeed?
Life

4.   How do you see yourself in a classic survival situation – lost in a boat at sea, in the wilderness, Nazi concentration camp, Guantanamo Bay etc?
What type of person would you be?
If there are dead bodies, bodyparts, blood ... freaked out like hell. Or passed out. Otherwise enjoying the situation.

5.   You are captured by a ruthless dictator, who decides to kill you, but for her own pleasure she has devised a wicked mental torture. 
You are given a choice:

In the next room is a person in serious trauma.  You can help this person today, who won’t die if you don’t but will have a much happier life if you do, and will always be grateful to you.  But you will be killed tonight. 

OR 

If you ignore the person in trauma and shift that large pile of dirt outside (for no reason at all) then you will be set free alive.

What is your choice: help the traumatised person and die, or ignore the person, shift the dirt and live?
Well, at the time the question was made I would have answered no. Now I say yes.

6.   Choice Version 2 – you will die at end of week, but you could live if you find the one thing that will save you.  How much effort could you see yourself putting into finding that one thing?  Would you leave no stone unturned, both day and night, or would you put in a token effort then sit back and compose yourself for death?
I think I know the question to this. I would put in a token effort and then prepare to die.

7.   How much have you investigated the question of survival of consciousness after death?
I'm not sure how could I investigate the survival of consciousness after death. Except by dying.  ::)

8.   Have you simply adopted a belief or attitude to it without any serious study and effort?
Most likely.

9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?
Bingo. That's why I would put just a token effort in trying to stay alive.

10.   Do you notice any difference in your attitude to survival pre-death, to survival post-death?
sure

11.   Scenario:
Click!
You experience a moment of extreme epiphany unparalleled in your life.
You are informed by an indisputable source, that nothing exists after death for all creatures - it is in fact the END.  Bonk!
But also you are told a secret – that there is one way for every creature to survive death intact, and sustain consciousness indefinitely.

You are told this technique, of permanent consciousness.  You are asked to pick a box:

Would you be more interested in sharing this secret with other people,
or in helping them live more fruitfully until they die forever?
first

®
"The result of the manifestation is in exact proportion to the force of striving received from the shock." -Gurdjieff, Belzebub's Tales to his grandson

www.sensoriumdei.org

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: The enchantment of life
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 09:17:01 PM »
Ask yourself these questions, try it out on your companions.
Don’t quibble over wording or misunderstandings –
use it as a tool to help move something inside.
But take not how many people dodge the inner work by splitting hairs over words and issues that protect them from the real task of always seeking anything that can help our reaching for the core of our life.


1.   Will to live – do you believe you have this?



2.   If you knew you were to die today – would that bother you?



3.   Have you ever been in a very difficult situation in which you had to struggle hard to succeed?



4.   How do you see yourself in a classic survival situation – lost in a boat at sea, in the wilderness, Nazi concentration camp, Guantanamo Bay etc?
What type of person would you be?



5.   You are captured by a ruthless dictator, who decides to kill you, but for her own pleasure she has devised a wicked mental torture. 
You are given a choice:

In the next room is a person in serious trauma.  You can help this person today, who won’t die if you don’t but will have a much happier life if you do, and will always be grateful to you.  But you will be killed tonight. 

OR 

If you ignore the person in trauma and shift that large pile of dirt outside (for no reason at all) then you will be set free alive.

What is your choice: help the traumatised person and die, or ignore the person, shift the dirt and live?



6.   Choice Version 2 – you will die at end of week, but you could live if you find the one thing that will save you.  How much effort could you see yourself putting into finding that one thing?  Would you leave no stone unturned, both day and night, or would you put in a token effort then sit back and compose yourself for death?



7.   How much have you investigated the question of survival of consciousness after death?



8.   Have you simply adopted a belief or attitude to it without any serious study and effort?



9.   What if the possibility of sustaining integrity of consciousness after death did in fact exist – how much effort would you be willing to make to discover it?



10.   Do you notice any difference in your attitude to survival pre-death, to survival post-death?



11.   Scenario:
Click!
You experience a moment of extreme epiphany unparalleled in your life.
You are informed by an indisputable source, that nothing exists after death for all creatures - it is in fact the END.  Bonk!
But also you are told a secret – that there is one way for every creature to survive death intact, and sustain consciousness indefinitely.

You are told this technique, of permanent consciousness.  You are asked to pick a box:

Would you be more interested in sharing this secret with other people,
or in helping them live more fruitfully until they die forever?



-----
What is the next most significant thing coming to us in the future?  Surely it’s our death?  At least it would have to be up there with really big ones.  And yet how little thought and time do we give to a serious investigation of this event from every possible side?  Why are we so enchanted with life that we ignore this huge gaping hole at the end of our highway?

Surely the advantage of permanence is blatant, why would we not see that as critical.  Why is it ignored in a culture like the modern global one, and yet essential to many other cultures?  How much are we mesmerised by our cultural attitudes?

m

Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

 

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