Author Topic: According to DJ  (Read 259 times)

Offline Nichi

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According to DJ
« on: February 27, 2009, 04:21:51 AM »
He stared at me for an instant and then giggled. He opened his eyes and raised his eyebrows in a comical gesture of surprise.

"Death is a whorl," he said. "Death is the face of the ally; death is a shiny cloud over the horizon; death is the whisper of Mescalito in your ears; death is the toothless mouth of the guardian; death is Genaro sitting on his head; death is me talking; death is you and your writing pad; death is nothing. Nothing! It is here yet it isn't here at all."

Don Juan laughed with great delight. His laughter was like a song, it had a sort of dancing rhythm.

"I make no sense huh?" don Juan said. "I cannot tell you what death is like. But perhaps I could tell you about your own death. There is no way of knowing what it will be like for sure; however, I could tell you what it may be like."

.....

"Death has two stages. The first is a blackout. It is a meaningless stage, very similar to the first effect of Mescalito, in which one experiences a lightness that makes one feel happy, complete, and that everything in the world is at ease. But that is only a shallow state; it soon vanishes and one enters a new realm, a realm of harshness and power. That second stage is the real encounter with Mescalito. Death is very much like this. The first stage is a shallow blackout. The second, however is the real stage where one meets with death; it is a brief moment, after the first blackout, when we find that we are, somehow, ourselves again. It is then that death smashes against us with quiet fury and power until it dissolves our lives to nothing."

A Separate Reality
Carlos Castaneda


Shamelessly lifted from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Other_Syntax/
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
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Offline Nichi

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 04:33:51 AM »
As I reread this passage, I have a new and surprising sense that CC did not know what he was talking about as regards dying and death, except inasmuch as we can use death as an advisor. Which was likely the point, anyway.

I can't defend my position here: it's just an intuition. When I read the words, they come to me as empty, without foundation.  The difference I see is that "harshness and power" exists now, in living -- that by the time death settles in, it is something quite different indeed.

Today, I'm of the mind that in most of the cases, it comes upon us as a surprise, and is not necessarily brutal from the other side. Even when we're prepared, it slips in as a seducer. Even when we're taken suddenly, as by accident or murder ... something from the other side seduces us to walk down that sweet path. 

~Viewpoint subject to change.
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

Offline Michael

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 09:04:31 PM »
There is a city at the end of the Universe. This is where all the beings gather who are ripe for the final journey - into the unknowable.

This city is well known to the Tibetans - They call it the Western .... sorry I forget the term  :)

This city is not for us - we have been there many times, and now we set our compass for a small outpost - a tiny cave-monastery on the very tip of darkness. (But that is just for this small troup of Somarites.)

Most people who die have their being aligned to the familiar - they seek return to what they know, have known and wish to remain within.

As a person is dying, we have a chance to put our hand on their shoulder, like an old sailor, and as they step towards their obsessions and familiarities - get them to pause and turn, point to the city at the end of the Universe, and say, "See. Forget not - I'll meet you there some day in the endlessness of time."

May all beings find their way to the Western Paradise.

Offline Jennifer-

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2009, 09:33:36 PM »
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May all beings find their way to the Western Paradise.

Namaste'
Without constant complete silence meditation - samadi - we lose ourselves in the game.  MM

Offline Quantum Shaman

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 01:55:50 AM »

Today, I'm of the mind that in most of the cases, it comes upon us as a surprise, and is not necessarily brutal from the other side. Even when we're prepared, it slips in as a seducer. Even when we're taken suddenly, as by accident or murder ... something from the other side seduces us to walk down that sweet path. 

~Viewpoint subject to change.

Vicki...  This is how I have come to think of it as well... "something from the other side seduces us to walk down that sweet path."  So far, my opinion/belief is that this "something from the other side" is quite likely our own double - the aspect of ourselves which we have created to BE on the other side - rather like DJM's commentary about the nature of the double-being, from THE EAGLE'S GIFT. 

Awhile back over at TSW, I wrote a bit about death as a position of the assemblage point.  The beginning of it was from a dream...

___________________

In Dreaming...

I am standing face to face with Orlando, but he has taken on my own face and form. My sense is that this is to avoid the paradox of "the sorcerer who comes face to face with his double is a dead sorcerer." But no matter... I know it is "him" even though it appears as "me". Cool trick.

He says to me, "Death is a position of the assemblage point."

This seems obvious to me, yet I realize there is an entire world of Knowledge being downloaded in that statement. A simple, straightforward statement, yet imbedded with layers upon layers of data which can barely be conceived by the brain/mind of ordinary awareness.

The dream shifts, and I am "Della" again. I am telling Wendy about this "dream" I had. I say to her, "Orlando was telling me that death is a position of the assemblage point - and as he spoke those words, he took both hands, palms open, and shoved me at the shoulders - the way kids on a playground might shove one another in a form of mock-battle."

I repeat once again to her, "Death is a position of the assemblage point."

Dream ends...
***

Rather than post the whole lengthy thing here, if you want to read more...
http://www.quantumshaman2.com/thesorcerersworld/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=429
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 01:57:51 AM by Quantum Shaman »
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Offline Quantum Shaman

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 02:12:27 AM »
A brief addendum...

As often happens when I reflect back on events from the past (such as my own dream posted above), or the passage originally quited by Vicki, I get what amounts to "silent knowing" which may further my own understanding of something.

Just after posting the post above, I was shown something with regard to "death is a position of the assemblage point" which may or may not have relevance here.  Essentially, I have always visualized the AP as a lens/filter/projector.  As emanations pass through that lens/filter/projector, we "assemble the world" - or, more accurately, we are "projected" into this world as what amounts to an individual with certain beliefs, perceptions, predilections, etc. 

What I saw moments ago was that when we "die," the assemblage point itself does not "die" with us.  Instead, it shifts so far into the nagual that it assembles "the other self" - in my syntax, I'd call it the double, but that's just my preference. Sort of like a spotlight that has been focused on the humanform self for the duration of our lifespan, suddenly being redirected to focus on another aspect of ourself, entirely off the "stage".

What is interesting about this bit of gnosis/silent iknowing is that it also speaks to what DJM was saying about how we become "ourselves" again and then we are essentially torn asunder by the eagle.  Hmmm.   What I am *seeing* here is twofold:

1.  The assemblage point itself is a non-construct of non-energy, so it doesn't even play by the "rules" of physics or even metaphysics.  It is part of the unknowable, which is one reason we can only discuss it in somewhat vague terms.  Point being, it cannot be destroyed because it is more like a hologram than anything else.

2.  DJM's comments about being obliterated entirely... I continue to see this as a matter of the intent of the individual.  Some seek to return to the source (nothingness, for lack of a better explanation), while others seek individuation.  Seems to me that it may be possible to choose either/or.

Just some ramblings... jotted down hurriedly, fwiw.

D
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Offline Firestarter

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 07:43:33 AM »
Quote
1.  The assemblage point itself is a non-construct of non-energy, so it doesn't even play by the "rules" of physics or even metaphysics.  It is part of the unknowable, which is one reason we can only discuss it in somewhat vague terms.  Point being, it cannot be destroyed because it is more like a hologram than anything else.

2.  DJM's comments about being obliterated entirely... I continue to see this as a matter of the intent of the individual.  Some seek to return to the source (nothingness, for lack of a better explanation), while others seek individuation.  Seems to me that it may be possible to choose either/or.


Rereading some old threads.

On part two of this, this has always been a concern of mine. Both offer an 'out' other than being torn to bits in consciousness. The former, the return to the source, I do believe we would retain our awareness. We, however, would be One with the Source. Then its difficult to be an individual being in such a way, there would be no boundaries. All, I do believe, is gravitating that direction, no matter what we do, what we choose, cause our individual self, (say we pull off the ultimate audacity), is still going to go into that direction. The pull of the universe, and the source, is too damn strong for an individual, no matter how advanced, to resist. Eventually, all of it, will return in that direction, because of the rule of impermanence. So all we can do is, in the meantime, do the latter which is,

Stepping into the realm of individuality, it cannot be the same, however, as the 'human form' individuality that has deluded itself to seeing all as separation. That has numerous attachments to impermanent things. That which has also not done proper merits (ie 'karma.') For example, im not saying, one has to run off and do volunteer work, it can also be construed as 'selfish' if ones only interest is some heavenly abode to work with folks, which really is self-serving. If it *is* really about helping others, then its another deal. But the main way I see about dealing with ones karma, is simply like you've said before, following the 'right way to live,' and the whole gnosis, which offers power, in knowing what is 'right.' Like in the movie KPax where he makes that statement "Everyone in the universe knows the difference between right and wrong." Unless one has mental issues, in a deep knowing, one who has their mental faculties intact, knows the difference. The better karmas we employ, the more we 'touch the world sparingly' around us so we dont hook it up too terribly, apply a more gentle approach to our living, those things actually give us the strength to create solid doubles. They also help us filter out the 'noise' which can interfere with the communion with the double that we need to have - cause we really need to listen - to what the double is trying to convey. If we have a prayer - a shot - at making it thru, we have to be able to hear and follow the path with heart, to the letter.

Its tricky business, and the only way to defeat death.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Nichi

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 12:59:46 AM »
"The rule is not a tale. To cross over to freedom does not mean eternal life as eternity is commonly understood--that is, as living forever. What the rule states is that one can keep the awareness which is ordinarily relinquished at the moment of dying. I cannot explain what it means to keep that awareness. My benefactor told me that at the moment of crossing, one enters into the third attention, and the body in its entirety is kindled with knowledge. Every cell at once becomes aware of itself, and also aware of the totality of the body. This kind of awareness is meaningless to our compartmentalized minds. Therefore the crux of the warrior's struggle is not so much to realize that the crossing over stated in the rule means crossing to the third attention, but rather to conceive that there exists such an awareness at all." --DJ, found on the Nagual forum.

I can agree, at the moment, that this is the goal, but once again I ask, is this goal the purview of our waking consciousness? Is it even possible in all cases, or does one become so well-'trained' that the unconscious kicks in and saves the day??

I had something of a medical crisis the other night, and I came out into the dining room, sitting there with my heart pumping dramatically and erratically. Was it in my stomach or my throat - it was all over my body. I couldn't breathe well and was consequently panting, getting the attention of Larry. And he is to whom I came to deliver eleventh hour instructions.

But I couldn't verbalize anything - I couldn't speak at all. I was agitated, all my energy was wrapped up in surviving and hastening the moment to pass. In this state of mind, I doubt seriously I would have had the ability to enact any theory/knowledge I had. I'll give myself this much: I was aware of the possible task before me, but so much of my energy instead was devoted to living, and so much of my direct experience was trapped by the pain and panic, that I question whether I would have accomplished much.

God willing, we don't get too many trial runs for this. So who could say, 'Practice makes perfect?'
Not here, not there, but everywhere - always right before your eyes.
~Hsin Hsin Ming

Ke-ke wan

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 05:05:59 AM »
But,  when we are ready,  then we are ready!

Offline Firestarter

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 09:27:08 AM »
Vicki, you should go to the doctor. Are you going to do that? You should get a full physical, to see what's going on.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Jahn

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Re: According to DJ
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 06:46:07 AM »

There is no freedom, and there is no eternity awareness as it is no end.
We just simply keep on dreaming, dead or alive.
In the end, it is all about connection, to Who we are and to Who we trust.
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