Topic: The Gourd

[Nichi]

Only a crackpot would undertake the task of becoming a man of knowledge of his own accord. A sober-headed man has to be tricked into doing it. There are scores of people who would gladly undertake the task, but those don't count. They are usually cracked. They are like gourds that look fine from the outside and yet they would leak the minute you put pressure on them, the minute you filled them with water.

Carlos Castaneda
THE WHEEL OF TIME
Quotations from 'A Separate Reality'


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Other_Syntax/

[Quantum Shaman]

One of my favorite CC quotes!  Reminds me of precisely why I'm always wary when someone says, "I want to be a warrior."
 

[Nichi]

One of my favorite CC quotes!  Reminds me of precisely why I'm always wary when someone says, "I want to be a warrior."
 

Right! We think we know, we think we know, we think we know...

[Firestarter]

LOL this is a good one, I mean sure theres a point you have some good moments but it aint glamorous, might make you nutty, it can be a freakshow - I do certainly feel spirit gave me a swifty when I entered into this path.

[Jahn]

Eeh,
I am afraid that you ladies got it all a bit deviated from the essence of the message with that allegory of the gourd. Women has usually to be held back while men has to be fooled to step forward on the path of a warrior. (And I got numerous examples on both!)

Please notice that he speaks of a "Man of Knowledge" - not a "Woman of knowledge", though I admit that a Man can also be a Woman in the sense that Man is short form for Human. But that was not the situation here.

So I am tricked 
and Castaneda was a trickster.

[Firestarter]

Ok lets not go there about the Man of Knowledge stuff cause therre's plenty of Women of Knowledge lurking around in the brush. The lack of mention was simply Carlos's own biases when incorporating the stories.

[Jahn]

Ok lets not go there about the Man of Knowledge stuff cause therre's plenty of Women of Knowledge lurking around in the brush. The lack of mention was simply Carlos's own biases when incorporating the stories.

In the brush?
Should be in the "bush" I suppose.

Well, I remembered what he wrote in a previous book, about these differences between the sexes and the path as a Warrior.
Fool the men, hold back the women - it is some kind of basic flow that need unique assistance.

[tangerine dream]

In the brush?
Should be in the "bush" I suppose.

Well, I remembered what he wrote in a previous book, about these differences between the sexes and the path as a Warrior.
Fool the men, hold back the women - it is some kind of basic flow that need unique assistance.

Its a yin and yang thing. 

[Firestarter]

In the brush?
Should be in the "bush" I suppose.

Well, I remembered what he wrote in a previous book, about these differences between the sexes and the path as a Warrior.
Fool the men, hold back the women - it is some kind of basic flow that need unique assistance.

I said brush with intent. Too much visualizations could be given stereotypically if I said 'bush.'

A lot of carlos's biases came out esp in Active Side of Infinity, and of course Amy Wallace's Sorcerer's Apprentice. So regardless, I do not care if Carlos or DJ said Man of Knowledge, there are plenty of Women of Knowledge out there (myself included), and his old stereotypes cannot pigeonhole any of us.

[Michael]

plenty of Women of Knowledge lurking around in the brush.

That's a sexy image, although I suppose you really meant lurking around with the brush - like doing the housework.

[Firestarter]

That's a sexy image, although I suppose you really meant lurking around with the brush - like doing the housework.

Dont you 'men of knowledge' know what the meaning of the brush is? *sheesh* its like shrubs, wicker patch, 'brush.' shit dumbbutts!

[Angela]

Eeh,
I am afraid that you ladies got it all a bit deviated from the essence of the message with that allegory of the gourd. Women has usually to be held back while men has to be fooled to step forward on the path of a warrior. (And I got numerous examples on both!)

Please notice that he speaks of a "Man of Knowledge" - not a "Woman of knowledge", though I admit that a Man can also be a Woman in the sense that Man is short form for Human. But that was not the situation here.

So I am tricked 
and Castaneda was a trickster.

Jahn, like this? not sure if I'm on the right track, but is this what you're speaking of? ...



So how do you feel about male sorcerers?

Florinda:   Don Juan was the nagual of a group of 14 sorcerers. Castaneda is the nagual of a much smaller group. The male sorcerers know that without the female sorcerers, there is nothing. Don Juan and Castaneda are not the leaders in the sense that they are better or have more knowledge. The only reason that they are the leaders of their groups is that they have more energy. Don Juan knew that he did not have an inch of ground to stand on without the women. In that kind of relationship, men and women never take advantage of each other, because, energetically, they know that they need each other to such a large degree. The male sorcerers know that it is the female who has a direct link to whatever it is that is out there—knowledge, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it.

Carlos' books reflect a different process, a process he is still going through. Men build knowledge step-by-step; they "cone" toward knowledge. This coning process limits men as to how far they can reach. The male wants the order, the structure, first. The female plunges into something, and then she makes order out of it. In women, the cone is inverted; it is open like a funnel. Women are able to open themselves directly to the source, or rather, the source reaches them directly.


from: http://www.oldnagualnet.com/wtg/INTERVIEWS/MBLEND3.HTML

[Angela]

That's a sexy image, although I suppose you really meant lurking around with the brush - like doing the housework.

[Michael]

That quote definitely applies to me - I do the structure thing first, then plunge. That's my technique. And I do see women plunge first. The problem for men is that they often won't plunge after they have walked to the end of their cone, and likewise women won't bother with structure after their bath. They just want to plunge again - it is obvious why we men have to keep the women in check with all those rules and corsets. Otherwise they'd never stop plunging into everything. But the women have a serious duty here, to seduce the men into stripping off their cones.

Makes you realise that Women of Knowledge is an oxymoron - it should be Women with Brushes.

[Firestarter]

Kitch. May we never go back to that slutty crap again