Author Topic: Foreign Installation and two minds  (Read 293 times)

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Foreign Installation and two minds
« on: August 14, 2009, 07:15:55 AM »
From Active Side of Infinity:

I didn't resolve anything," he declared. "It, the conflict or whatever, was the result of the battle between my two minds. Every one of us human beings has two minds. One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose. The other mind is a foreign installation. It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."

My fixation on my own mental concatenations was so intense that I completely missed what don Juan had said. I could clearly

remember every one of his words, but they had no meaning for me. Don Juan very calmly, and looking directly into my eyes, repeated what he had just said. 1 was still incapable of grasping what he meant. 1 couldn't focus my attention on his words.

"For some strange reason, don Juan, I can't concentrate on what you're telling me," I said.

"1 understand perfectly why you can't," he said, smiling expansively, "and so will you, someday, at the same time that you resolve the conflict of whether you like me or not, the day you cease to be the me-me center of the world.

"In the meantime," he continued, "let's put the topic of our two minds aside and go back to the idea of preparing your album of memorable events. I should add that such an album is an exercise in discipline and impartiality. Consider this album to be an act of war."

Don Juan's assertion-that my conflict of both liking and not liking to see him was going to end whenever I abandoned my egocentrism-was no solution for me. In fact, that assertion made me angrier; it frustrated me all the more. And when 1 heard don Juan speak of the album as an act of war, I lashed out at him with all my poison.

"The idea that this is a collection of events is already hard to understand," I said in a tone of protest. "But that on top of all this, you call it an album and say that such an album is an act of war is too much for me. It's too obscure. Being obscure makes the metaphor lose its meaning."

"How strange! It's the opposite for me," don Juan replied calmly. "Such an album being an act of war has all the meaning in the world for me. I wouldn't like my album of memorable events to be anything but an act of war."

I wanted to argue my point further and explain to him that I did understand the idea of an album of memorable events. I objected to the perplexing way he was describing it. I thought of myself in those days as an advocate of clarity and functionalism in the use of language.

Don Juan didn't comment on my belligerent mood. He only shook his head as if he were fully agreeing with me. After a

while, I either completely ran out of energy, or I got a gigantic surge of it. All of a sudden, without any effort on my part, I realized the futility of my outbursts. I felt embarrassed no end.

"What possesses me to act the way I do?" I asked don Juan in earnest. I was, at that instant, utterly baffled. I was so shaken by my realization that without any volition on my part, I began to weep.

"Don't worry about stupid details," don Juan said reassuringly. "Every one of us, male and female, is like this."

"Do you mean, don Juan, that we are naturally petty and contradictory?"

"No, we are not naturally petty and contradictory," he replied. "Our pettiness and contradictions are, rather, the result of a transcendental conflict that afflicts every one of us, but of which only sorcerers are painfully and hopelessly aware: the conflict of our two minds."

Don Juan peered at me; his eyes were like two black charcoals.

"You've been telling me on and on about our two minds," I said, "but my brain can't register what you are saying. Why?"

"You'll get to know why in due time," he said. "For the present, it will be sufficient that I repeat to you what I have said before about our two minds. One is our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity. The other, the mind we use daily for everything we do, is a foreign installation."

"I think that the crux of the matter is that the concept of the mind being a foreign installation is so outlandish that my mind refuses to take it seriously," I said, feeling that I had made a real discovery.

Don Juan did not comment on what 1 had said. He continued explaining the issue of the two minds as if I hadn't said a word.

"To resolve the conflict of the two minds is a matter of intending it," he said. "Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear. Intent is a force that exists in the universe. When sorcerers beckon intent, it comes to them and sets up the path for attainment, which means that sorcerers always accomplish what they set out to do."

"Do you mean, don Juan, that sorcerers get anything they want, even if it is something petty and arbitrary?" I asked.

"No, I didn't mean that. Intent can be called, of course, for anything," he replied, "but sorcerers have found out, the hard way, that intent comes to them only for something that is abstract. That's the safety valve for sorcerers; otherwise they would be unbearable. In your case, beckoning intent to resolve the conflict of your two minds, or to hear the voice of your true mind, is not a petty or arbitrary matter. Quite the contrary; it is ethereal and abstract, and yet as vital to you as anything can be."

Don Juan paused for a moment; then he began to talk again about the album.

"My own album, being an act of war, demanded a super-careful selection," he said. "It is now a precise collection of the unforgetable moments of my life, and everything that led me to them. I have concentrated in it what has been and will be meaningful to me. In my opinion, a warrior's album is something most concrete, something so to the point that it is shattering."

I had no clue as to what don Juan wanted, and yet I did understand him to perfection. He advised me to sit down, alone, and let my thoughts, memories, and ideas come to me freely. He recommended that I make an effort to let the voice from the depths of me speak out and tell me what to select. Don Juan told me then to go inside the house and lie down on a bed that I had there. It was made of wooden boxes and dozens of empty burlap sacks that served as a mattress. My whole body ached, and when I lay on the bed it was actually extremely comfortable.

I took his suggestions to heart and began to think about my past, looking for events that had left a mark on me. I soon realized that my assertion that every event in my life had been meaningful was nonsense. As I pressed myself to recollect, I


found that I didn't even know where to start. Through my mind ran endless disassociated thoughts and memories of events that had happened to me, but I couldn't decide whether or not they had had any meaning for me. The impression I got was that nothing had had any significance whatsoever. It looked as if I had gone through life like a corpse empowered to walk and talk, but not to feel anything. Having no concentration whatsoever to pursue the subject beyond a shallow attempt, I gave up and fell asleep.

"Did you have any success?" don Juan asked me when I woke up hours later.

Instead of being at ease after sleeping and resting, I was again moody and belligerent.

"No, I didn't have any success!" I barked.

"Did you hear that voice from the depths of you?" he asked.

"I think I did," I lied.

"What did it say to you?" he inquired in an urgent tone.

"I can't think of it, don Juan," I muttered.

"Ah, you are back in your daily mind," he said and patted me forcefully on the back. "Your daily mind has taken over again. Let's relax it by talking about your collection of memorable events. I should tell you that the selection of what to put in your album is not an easy matter. This is the reason I say that making this album is an act of war. You have to remake yourself ten times over in order to know what to select."

I clearly understood then, if only for a second, that I had two minds; however, the thought was so vague that I lost it instantly. What remained was just the sensation of an incapacity to fulfill don Juan's requirement. Instead of graciously accepting my incapacity, though, I allowed it to become a threatening affair. The driving force of my life, in those days, was to appear always in a good light. To be incompetent was the equivalent of being a loser, something that was thoroughly intolerable to me. Since I didn't know how to respond to the challenge don Juan was posing, I did the only thing I knew how to do: I got angry.

"I've got to think a great deal more about this, don Juan," I said. "I've got to give my mind some time to settle on the idea."

"Of course, of course," don Juan assured me. "Take all the time in the world, but hurry."

"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Offline Michael

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2009, 10:31:39 PM »
This is perhaps the most critical task.

I can't say how much in my daily life I encounter the Foreign Instillation. It is pervasive in the extreme, and leaves me feeling a stranger in a strange land. As I grow older, I actually find myself oddly lonely.

Ellen, it is incredible you post this, as you are in the worst category.

But you are not there alone.

I have spoken before about this album, under a different name, and no one understood what I was talking about. It is such a fantastically good idea - everyone here should have this, and update it nightly!

So much that has happened here in Soma in the last week has been this battle between the two minds.

To tell the truth, which I abhor doing, I am utterly sick and tired of talking to people's Foreign Instillations. I don't say so - either here or in my life - else I would unleash a tidal wave of years of outrage.

"a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose... our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity"

"brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."

"Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear"

Please everyone ... read this extract again, and go away and do it. Then come back and see what is happening here in Soma. See the task and the door - a major threshold is on offer: the turning point of all our lives.

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2009, 11:57:35 PM »

"a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose... our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity"

"brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."

"Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear"


 8)

erik

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 12:18:51 AM »
Doesn't the collection of these crucial events change with passing time - as if below layers there are layers with different turning points? Watching myself, I'd say that it is a continuous process. Looking at one's life with a changed perception shows it differently.

Offline Quantum Shaman

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 01:35:53 AM »
This is perhaps the most critical task.

I can't say how much in my daily life I encounter the Foreign Instillation. It is pervasive in the extreme, and leaves me feeling a stranger in a strange land. As I grow older, I actually find myself oddly lonely.

I was saying precisely the same thing to Wendy just a couple of days ago.  Stranger in a strange land.  Alien in the attic.  Seems to go with the territory for anyone who has been on the path for any length of time.  And definitely gets more pronounced as a get older.  Thing is... I don't feel it as a "bad" thing, nor as a "good" thing.  Seems to be the actual tightrope between the two minds.

To tell the truth, which I abhor doing, I am utterly sick and tired of talking to people's Foreign Instillations. I don't say so - either here or in my life - else I would unleash a tidal wave of years of outrage.

Heh.  To tell the truth (which I don't often do with regard to this subject) this is precisely why I am accused of being "angry" from time to time, even and perhaps especially with my "students" (for lack of any better word).  People claim to want "knowledge" but what they really want is entertainment or, worse, validation for their weaknesses  & permission to carry on with their comfort zones - because for the most part they are still deeply rooted to the foreign installation, and through that root they are fed the rhetoric of the consensus 24/7, and so all we EVER really do is talk to their foreign installation. 

It's a losing battle to approach it head on, as you obviously know.  But on the other hand, I've found that subtlty works best when dealing with other wo/men of Knowledge.  It's lost entirely on anyone else, because their foreign installation is so adept at filtering out any subtle lessons and replacing them with its own rhetoric.  So even though I've caught flack plenty of times for it, I tend to speak plainly and directly even if it might offend the delicate sensibilities of those around me.  *shrugs* 

Quote
"a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose... our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity"

"brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."

"Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear"

Please everyone ... read this extract again, and go away and do it. Then come back and see what is happening here in Soma. See the task and the door - a major threshold is on offer: the turning point of all our lives.

Okay... what I'm getting at here is that I think perhaps the time has come to spill the beans, Michael.   :o  Like I said, subtlty is all fine and good at times, but not so good at others.  If you see something happening here in Soma that represents a door and a major threshold, "the turning point of all our lives"... I for one would be very interested in what you are *seeing*.  I have my own ideas, of course, and my own pathway to freedom; but if there is to be a real unity of purpose, it would seem reasonable to suggest that we put some of those ideas on the table of the tonal just to bring them into the light.

Just curious as to where you see all of this going.  The clock is ticking.  Death is stalking us.  Now what?

 ;) I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.   ;)
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Offline Firestarter

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 01:47:22 AM »
This is a topic about the foreign installation not about me. Digs at me are unnecessary.


This is perhaps the most critical task.

I can't say how much in my daily life I encounter the Foreign Instillation. It is pervasive in the extreme, and leaves me feeling a stranger in a strange land. As I grow older, I actually find myself oddly lonely.

Ellen, it is incredible you post this, as you are in the worst category.

But you are not there alone.

I have spoken before about this album, under a different name, and no one understood what I was talking about. It is such a fantastically good idea - everyone here should have this, and update it nightly!

So much that has happened here in Soma in the last week has been this battle between the two minds.

To tell the truth, which I abhor doing, I am utterly sick and tired of talking to people's Foreign Instillations. I don't say so - either here or in my life - else I would unleash a tidal wave of years of outrage.

"a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose... our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity"

"brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."

"Sorcerers beckon intent by voicing the word intent loud and clear"

Please everyone ... read this extract again, and go away and do it. Then come back and see what is happening here in Soma. See the task and the door - a major threshold is on offer: the turning point of all our lives.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 01:50:30 AM »

Okay... what I'm getting at here is that I think perhaps the time has come to spill the beans, Michael.   :o  Like I said, subtlty is all fine and good at times, but not so good at others.  If you see something happening here in Soma that represents a door and a major threshold, "the turning point of all our lives"... I for one would be very interested in what you are *seeing*.  I have my own ideas, of course, and my own pathway to freedom; but if there is to be a real unity of purpose, it would seem reasonable to suggest that we put some of those ideas on the table of the tonal just to bring them into the light.

Just curious as to where you see all of this going.  The clock is ticking.  Death is stalking us.  Now what?

 ;) I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.   ;)

*Kicks back with a cuppa.*

Well, we'll see what he responds with. This could be an interesting discussion, or if he goes the 'mystery man' route, and takes off. I think per the FI topic and him knowng how important it is, he'll probably say something.

Good discussion D :)
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Jahn

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 04:04:46 AM »
Quote
The driving force of my life, in those days, was to appear always in a good light. To be incompetent was the equivalent of being a loser, something that was thoroughly intolerable to me. Since I didn't know how to respond to the challenge don Juan was posing, I did the only thing I knew how to do: I got angry.

"I've got to think a great deal more about this, don Juan," I said. "I've got to give my mind some time to settle on the idea."

"Of course, of course," don Juan assured me. "Take all the time in the world, but hurry."


We in Toltec School talk about the Parasite, the inventory and the subconscious ruling our emotional state and re-actions, and we talk about authentic self, action with intent and sound choices together with alignment with the Nagual and our Dreamer being the opposite to the constructed ego's irregular suggestions.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 04:08:02 AM by Jamir »

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 04:19:56 AM »
The last statement in this exerpt, I ended it there with intent cause of what he said

Quote
Take all the time in the world... but hurry.
You cant miss what he was trying to convey with that one. Thats actually the best part of the whole exerpt.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 05:17:57 AM »


Okay... what I'm getting at here is that I think perhaps the time has come to spill the beans, Michael.   :o  Like I said, subtlty is all fine and good at times, but not so good at others.  If you see something happening here in Soma that represents a door and a major threshold, "the turning point of all our lives"... I for one would be very interested in what you are *seeing*. 

One of the things I love so much about Michael,  (though it used to drive me bonkers!!)  is that he's adept at telling you everything you need to know without actually saying it.  It's a great talent.   One that I, myself hope to have one day. 


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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 05:40:46 AM »
One of the things I love so much about Michael,  (though it used to drive me bonkers!!)  is that he's adept at telling you everything you need to know without actually saying it.  It's a great talent.   One that I, myself hope to have one day. 



LOL I second that! Even tho he irked me on his comment, I still love him for the same odd traits. Its just the way he is. Though I do admit I prefer words, one thing about having to say, communicate that way, you're left to interpret various energies and the like. Read it. Which is what I find myself having to do continually with him, lol
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 07:39:59 AM »
One of the things I love so much about Michael,  (though it used to drive me bonkers!!)  is that he's adept at telling you everything you need to know without actually saying it.  It's a great talent.   One that I, myself hope to have one day. 



Lemme add onto that Lor, now Im on lunch I have more time. Della did catch it in her net, she stalked the statement out. What is this 'threshold' MM is speaking about? And, Im catching something (regardless to his dig), there is a reason of Spirit, that the FI topic has come up. Della is going with the flow of it, and all of it, even the drama of the last week, has garnered, flowed, right into the Heart of the FI for a REASON. I do not lack one thing, in one way, and that is being able to feel out, when a tide turns, and when something is approaching, anymore than I lack the sensitivities to the cosmos being an astrologer (which reminds me, I should probably check my lucky stars). If I stand back, allowing my observer to just look, and shutup mind, I too, like Della, feel something is afoot. I am not saying its even Michael's doing, but it is something. And who knows, perhaps soma will be able to pick itself up on two legs and walk right thru the Cosmic Vagina, lol. But something is afoot, is my point. As all rivers flow into One, all has flowed right here, for a reason. I think its time to do a little more one-to-one combat with Maya, IMO.

In addition on my lunch walk, interesting as I have a bee deal, a bee flew right at my left eye. Luckily I had my glasses on. He bumped into my eye, and only the glass shielded me from him, or her. It was quite the starteler. lol. A bee. They're very nagualesque for me when they aim at me. I think it was telling me to look at something myself. Course, I am less than two weeks away from a trying day in court and Ive been doing what i can on those walks to extract all the personal power I can to prepare for it. Playing certain scenarios in my mind, so I can be prepared for what they throw at me, say about me and the like. "See in advance," and use those skills cause just cause I have an atty doesnt mean he'll see it coming, but i may.
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

Ke-ke wan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 07:55:09 AM »
Lemme add onto that Lor, now Im on lunch I have more time. Della did catch it in her net, she stalked the statement out. What is this 'threshold' MM is speaking about? And, Im catching something (regardless to his dig), there is a reason of Spirit, that the FI topic has come up. Della is going with the flow of it, and all of it, even the drama of the last week, has garnered, flowed, right into the Heart of the FI for a REASON. I do not lack one thing, in one way, and that is being able to feel out, when a tide turns, and when something is approaching, anymore than I lack the sensitivities to the cosmos being an astrologer (which reminds me, I should probably check my lucky stars). If I stand back, allowing my observer to just look, and shutup mind, I too, like Della, feel something is afoot. I am not saying its even Michael's doing, but it is something. And who knows, perhaps soma will be able to pick itself up on two legs and walk right thru the Cosmic Vagina, lol. But something is afoot, is my point. As all rivers flow into One, all has flowed right here, for a reason. I think its time to do a little more one-to-one combat with Maya, IMO.


Certainly didn't mean to give the impression that Della didn't catch something,  nor did I imply that nothing was 'afoot'.   Just highlighting something I admire in Michael.


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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 07:55:29 AM »
Quote
There is a threshold that once crossed permits no retreat,” he said. “Ordinarily, from the moment the spirit knocks, it is years before an apprentice reaches that threshold. Sometimes, though, the threshold is reached almost immediately. My benefactor’s case is an example.”

Don Juan said every sorcerer should have a clear memory of crossing that threshold so he could remind himself of the new state of his perceptual potential. He explained that one did not have to be an apprentice of sorcery to reach this threshold, and that the only difference between an average man and a sorcerer, in such cases, is what each emphasizes. A sorcerer emphasizes crossing this threshold and uses the memory of it as a point of reference. An average man does not cross the threshold and does his best to forget all about it.

I told him that I did not agree with his point, because I could not accept that there was only one threshold to cross.

Don Juan looked heavenward in dismay and shook his head in a joking gesture of despair. I proceeded with my argument, not to disagree with him, but to clarify things in my mind. Yet I quickly lost my impetus. Suddenly I had the feeling I was sliding through a tunnel.

“Sorcerers say that the fourth abstract core happens when the spirit cuts our chains of self-reflection,” he said. “Cutting our chains is marvelous, but also very undesirible, for nobody wants to be free.”


PoS

Nobody wants to be free....

Hmmm....
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

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Re: Foreign Installation and two minds
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 07:59:50 AM »
Certainly didn't mean to give the impression that Della didn't catch something,  nor did I imply that nothing was 'afoot'.   Just highlighting something I admire in Michael.



You didnt at all. I didnt get that impression from your post. Thats not why I chose to reply to you. But you did mention, as della, how he does communicate in subtle ways, not directly, which della was discussing a bit (hell that could spawn a whole nother topic)! Like I am more blunt, I choose words typically. I can put energy behind my words, I can do it in silence too, but words seem to be the easier method, though I admit, they do lack a perfection that energy can convey esp when dealing with the abstract. It really depends but in here, esp cause I type, I tend to use words.

I think if anything, much of where things can get muddled is when we misinterpret energy behind words. Or intent behind words, if you will. Ive seen that on various occasions, so I try to utilize words instead, in hopes nothing will be mistaken in what im trying to convey. But alas, doesnt always work that way.

Just some rambles before i clock back in :)
"A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent." - don Juan

 

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